Also, a general strike costs money for the strikers.
You might be able to afford to take a couple of weeks or months off works to make a statement (because anything less would do jack shit to the dialogue), but most people can't do that.
Again, why not a general strike instead of a riot? Just because it's hard?
Could you walk me through the steps of a general strike and how it achieves the goals of reforming the justice system in this area? A riot wouldn't achieve the goals much better other than bringing more media attention to the issue. If Wilson is not indicted it would seem like the most straight forward method of achieving their goals is lost. I don't see many useful ways of changing the system at this point.
Also, a "general strike" would imply that it has to include white people. Who largely, in the St. Louis area, seem to not give a fuck.
True, I suppose it depends on the demographics of the protesters and how much the town of Ferguson really depends on their labor. Still, a general strike is simply a less-violent version of the "meet our demands, or else" threat of a riot.
0
Options
MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
Honestly I don't see how a General Strike is approriate for this situation.
Again, why not a general strike instead of a riot? Just because it's hard?
Could you walk me through the steps of a general strike and how it achieves the goals of reforming the justice system in this area? A riot wouldn't achieve the goals much better other than bringing more media attention to the issue. If Wilson is not indicted it would seem like the most straight forward method of achieving their goals is lost. I don't see many useful ways of changing the system at this point.
Also, a "general strike" would imply that it has to include white people. Who largely, in the St. Louis area, seem to not give a fuck.
True, I suppose it depends on the demographics of the protesters and how much the town of Ferguson really depends on their labor. Still, a general strike is simply a less-violent version of the "meet our demands, or else" threat of a riot.
Ferguson, MO isn't a giant Walmart and the riots are expected by the authorities. They aren't used as a collective bargaining tool here, or even a means to an end.
0
Options
Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
With 91 municipalities in the county, who here thinks a significant portion of the working population of Ferguson all work in Ferguson? Or even anywhere near the same place as each other?
Yeah, I thought not.
All a strike would accomplish is a much higher percentage of people in Ferguson becoming unemployed.
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
With 91 municipalities in the county, who here thinks a significant portion of the working population of Ferguson all work in Ferguson? Or even anywhere near the same place as each other?
Yeah, I thought not.
All a strike would accomplish is a much higher percentage of people in Ferguson becoming unemployed.
And, oh, how many of those people are living off of poverty wages? Yeah, taking extended time off work would do real well for them.
EDIT: I mean, that shit is paycheck to paycheck. Missing two dayscauses serious problems, and they're supposed to just head off for weeks/months?
Again, why not a general strike instead of a riot? Just because it's hard?
Could you walk me through the steps of a general strike and how it achieves the goals of reforming the justice system in this area? A riot wouldn't achieve the goals much better other than bringing more media attention to the issue. If Wilson is not indicted it would seem like the most straight forward method of achieving their goals is lost. I don't see many useful ways of changing the system at this point.
Also, a "general strike" would imply that it has to include white people. Who largely, in the St. Louis area, seem to not give a fuck.
Actually we are the minority as the rest of the general public has not backed the citizens of Ferguson since the convenience store tape release and the media presented rioting.
Posting the military in a US city to replace the local constabulary? Are you out of your mind? That is just horribly irresponsible.
Habeas corpus may be suspended in the case of rebellion. Who says that this need be in the cause of suppressing the rebellion rather than aiding it?
That is an insane statement. Getting the military to overthrow a city and arrest the local officials is an incredibly bad idea. The organization you want to help is the Justice Department, and they've already said they're investigating the events in Ferguson.
No. It's not. The Posse commitatas act is how the South won the civil war. Fuck that shit; bring in the Feds.
Posting the military in a US city to replace the local constabulary? Are you out of your mind? That is just horribly irresponsible.
Habeas corpus may be suspended in the case of rebellion. Who says that this need be in the cause of suppressing the rebellion rather than aiding it?
That is an insane statement. Getting the military to overthrow a city and arrest the local officials is an incredibly bad idea. The organization you want to help is the Justice Department, and they've already said they're investigating the events in Ferguson.
No. It's not. The Posse commitatas act is how the South won the civil war. Fuck that shit; bring in the Feds.
I'm really pretty sure that nobody is considering the implications of imposing full-scale martial law anywhere within the US. This is the slippery slope. It's already been so easy to erode so many little freedoms, the minute you post armed soldiers on the street corners to enforce law there is no reason not to go after bigger freedoms.
The National Guard are not trained to be police, they're trained to be soldiers. And soldiers are trained to react in specific ways. This is a terrible fucking idea.
Declaring a SoE for actual rioting, mobilising the National Guard, and then pulling back? That's pretty standard.
If the governor decides to step on with state police to investigate and perhaps provide standard police services? Hard to argue that.
It's the idea of sending in the Guard to replace the local police that's the problem. Might as well suggest razing the town and relocating the people who live there.
Declaring a SoE for actual rioting, mobilising the National Guard, and then pulling back? That's pretty standard.
If the governor decides to step on with state police to investigate and perhaps provide standard police services? Hard to argue that.
It's the idea of sending in the Guard to replace the local police that's the problem. Might as well suggest razing the town and relocating the people who live there.
They could not possibly do a worse job than the existing police so other than there being no way it will ever happen I don't see the problem.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
One of those is expressly prohibited in the constitution.
Personal note: Writing a paper on the third amendment is incredible difficult because it almost never comes up.
Anyway, the only possible good ending after Wilson isn't indicted is for the Justice Department to come in and declare the entire PD and the Prosecutor guilty of conspiracy and obstruction of justice and punish them accordingly.
One of those is expressly prohibited in the constitution.
That's his point, I think.
Although I am really skeptical about the possibility of Ferguson being occupied. Like, really skeptical.
That premptively deploying the NG in one of their normal roles is equivalent to violating the constitution?
Use of the militia for law and order is not exactly novel. Its also far from ideal... but it seems like they would be less heavily armed, less confrontational, and less trampling rights than the Ferguson cops. Which is a crazy low bar to clear.
One of those is expressly prohibited in the constitution.
That's his point, I think.
Although I am really skeptical about the possibility of Ferguson being occupied. Like, really skeptical.
That premptively deploying the NG in one of their normal roles is equivalent to violating the constitution?
Use of the militia for law and order is not exactly novel. Its also far from ideal... but it seems like they would be less heavily armed, less confrontational, and less trampling rights than the Ferguson cops. Which is a crazy low bar to clear.
I'm not saying I think he's right that it'll happen, just that he seems to think sending in the NG would result in things which would violate the Constitution.
0
Options
spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I have read the posts since my last, but I still do not see why anyone should excuse or empathize with rioting. Rioting is bad. Full stop. Innocent people get hurt. If a riot occurs and innocent people are hurt and killed, then more evil has come from the situation than there already was.
The idea of violent insurrection is quite frankly absurd. If you come at the king, you'd best not miss, and a violent insurrection has no chance at victory in the US. Its just a way to get more people killed AND to have those people branded as traitors, thereby discrediting their cause.
A general strike is illegal, I believe, and probably wouldn't accomplish anything anyway.
As some people said earlier, there should be a push for the justice department to investigate the Ferguson PD. That seems like it would actually be a productive course of action which could enact change.
I have read the posts since my last, but I still do not see why anyone should excuse or empathize with rioting. Rioting is bad. Full stop. Innocent people get hurt. If a riot occurs and innocent people are hurt and killed, then more evil has come from the situation than there already was.
The idea of violent insurrection is quite frankly absurd. If you come at the king, you'd best not miss, and a violent insurrection has no chance at victory in the US. Its just a way to get more people killed AND to have those people branded as traitors, thereby discrediting their cause.
A general strike is illegal, I believe, and probably wouldn't accomplish anything anyway.
As some people said earlier, there should be a push for the justice department to investigate the Ferguson PD. That seems like it would actually be a productive course of action which could enact change.
Nobody here wants a riot, nobody anywhere wants a riot, but it seems like the people of Ferguson may have no other option. If the police cannot be held accountable for their actions and the people who are affected aren't allowed to vote and they aren't allowed to leave then violent resistance may be the only option open to them.
A general strike is not illegal, you can't force people to work, though I agree it wouldn't accomplish anything.
So, it all comes down to the Justice Department. There are obvious problems with the Ferguson PD and the surrounding government that need to be addressed or things will get very nasty.
I have read the posts since my last, but I still do not see why anyone should excuse or empathize with rioting. Rioting is bad. Full stop. Innocent people get hurt. If a riot occurs and innocent people are hurt and killed, then more evil has come from the situation than there already was.
The idea of violent insurrection is quite frankly absurd. If you come at the king, you'd best not miss, and a violent insurrection has no chance at victory in the US. Its just a way to get more people killed AND to have those people branded as traitors, thereby discrediting their cause.
A general strike is illegal, I believe, and probably wouldn't accomplish anything anyway.
As some people said earlier, there should be a push for the justice department to investigate the Ferguson PD. That seems like it would actually be a productive course of action which could enact change.
Nobody here wants a riot, nobody anywhere wants a riot, but it seems like the people of Ferguson may have no other option. If the police cannot be held accountable for their actions and the people who are affected aren't allowed to vote and they aren't allowed to leave then violent resistance may be the only option open to them.
A general strike is not illegal, you can't force people to work, though I agree it wouldn't accomplish anything.
So, it all comes down to the Justice Department. There are obvious problems with the Ferguson PD and the surrounding government that need to be addressed or things will get very nasty.
A riot is not violent resistance though. It is people hurting other people chaotically. I really don't see how this is a viable or understandable option here. It would be a tragedy. And if people are arrested by the hated police during the riot, then the police would be in the right to arrest them, and then they would likely lose the power to vote. It is a losing proposition on every level.
I'll ask my question again, what were the contributing factors to the Rodney King riots in LA and are there any obvious parallels to the situation in Ferguson?
I have read the posts since my last, but I still do not see why anyone should excuse or empathize with rioting. Rioting is bad. Full stop. Innocent people get hurt. If a riot occurs and innocent people are hurt and killed, then more evil has come from the situation than there already was.
The idea of violent insurrection is quite frankly absurd. If you come at the king, you'd best not miss, and a violent insurrection has no chance at victory in the US. Its just a way to get more people killed AND to have those people branded as traitors, thereby discrediting their cause.
A general strike is illegal, I believe, and probably wouldn't accomplish anything anyway.
As some people said earlier, there should be a push for the justice department to investigate the Ferguson PD. That seems like it would actually be a productive course of action which could enact change.
Nobody here wants a riot, nobody anywhere wants a riot, but it seems like the people of Ferguson may have no other option. If the police cannot be held accountable for their actions and the people who are affected aren't allowed to vote and they aren't allowed to leave then violent resistance may be the only option open to them.
A general strike is not illegal, you can't force people to work, though I agree it wouldn't accomplish anything.
So, it all comes down to the Justice Department. There are obvious problems with the Ferguson PD and the surrounding government that need to be addressed or things will get very nasty.
A riot is not violent resistance though. It is people hurting other people chaotically. I really don't see how this is a viable or understandable option here. It would be a tragedy. And if people are arrested by the hated police during the riot, then the police would be in the right to arrest them, and then they would likely lose the power to vote. It is a losing proposition on every level.
What other course of action do you suggest they have? They are politically disenfranchised, squeezed for money by their police force, and - should the grand jury decline to indict - apparently at risk of fatal assault by those same police forces over transgressions as minor as jaywalking. Their court system is a farce where on any given day, a member of the court may serve as their public defender in one municipality, prosecutor the next day in another, and judge the following day in a third as they are passed from one jail to the next to have all the blood squeezed from their personal turnip.
The people that hold office above them in no way represent them, they have no power to vote them out of office, and those that are meant to serve and protect them instead extort and execute them. Rioting is awful, destructive, and unlawful, but what is being perpetrated against the people of Ferguson is arguably much worse, and rioting is an inevitable result of being left with no other options.
What would you do? If you had 3 or 4 arrest warrants on you for bull shit trumped up charges, had lost your ability to vote, and had been shown repeatedly that you can be killed with impunity if you step out of line. What would you do?
+2
Options
VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I have read the posts since my last, but I still do not see why anyone should excuse or empathize with rioting. Rioting is bad. Full stop. Innocent people get hurt. If a riot occurs and innocent people are hurt and killed, then more evil has come from the situation than there already was.
The idea of violent insurrection is quite frankly absurd. If you come at the king, you'd best not miss, and a violent insurrection has no chance at victory in the US. Its just a way to get more people killed AND to have those people branded as traitors, thereby discrediting their cause.
A general strike is illegal, I believe, and probably wouldn't accomplish anything anyway.
As some people said earlier, there should be a push for the justice department to investigate the Ferguson PD. That seems like it would actually be a productive course of action which could enact change.
And it will never happen. Part of the larger problem is that police across the nation have, more or less, been allowed to act with impunity. The entire reason why a riot scenario is more likely is because the majority of Ferguson's citizenry have no recourse, either at the local or the federal level.
Newly released emails, sent to and from Missouri's top public-safety officials, show that the state police captain placed in charge of security in Ferguson after Michael Brown's death was both vilified and praised for attempting to replace authorities' militarized approach with one more sympathetic to protesters.
The emails, obtained by The Associated Press through an open-records request, also show that police tried to find a way to protect members of the clergy who were in the protest crowds, and that some officers objected to an order to take their meal breaks in public.
...
Capt. Ron Johnson of the Missouri Highway Patrol, who is black, was put in charge by Gov. Jay Nixon to try to restore calm. He talked and marched with protesters, posed with them for photos and spoke to loud applause at a rally where he apologized to Brown's family and described his relationship with his own son who wears sagging pants and has tattoos.
Johnson and his supervisors received numerous emails and phone calls complimenting his demeanor from law officers across Missouri and the country.
"Your agency and Captain Johnson are making Troopers all over the country proud," Minnesota State Patrol Lt. Col. Matt Langer wrote to Missouri State Highway Patrol Col. Ron Replogle.
But other current and retired law enforcement officers sharply criticized the highway patrol, asserting that Johnson's apology and actions implied Wilson was guilty of a crime without the benefit of a trial.
"The actions of Cpt. Johnson have infuriated me," retired patrol officer Mike Watson wrote to Replogle. "He has single handedly destroyed the reputation of the Missouri State Highway Patrol."
The emails show that patrol officers occasionally took personal steps to try to ease tensions or problems.
Johnson, for example, received an email from a woman who lived in the apartment complex near where Brown was shot. She complained that she was having difficulty going back and forth to her job because of protests and police blockades. Johnson told her the problem would be corrected within that week.
One officer, acknowledging he was going outside the chain of command, pleaded in an email to supervisors to tell rank-and-file officers that clergy intermingling among protesters were trying to help and should be treated accordingly. He suggested pastors could wear brightly colored T-shirts with the word "CLERGY" on front and back. Replogle, the highway patrol's top officer, responded by offering to pay for the shirts himself, if necessary.
Some suburban St. Louis gun dealers have been doing brisk business, particularly among first-time buyers, as fearful residents await a grand jury's decision on whether to indict the police officer who fatally shot Michael Brown.
Metro Shooting Supplies, in an area near the city's main airport, reports selling two to three times more weapons than usual in recent weeks — an average of 30 to 50 guns each day — while the jury prepares to conclude its three-month review of the case that sparked looting and weeks of sometimes-violent protests in August.
"We're selling everything that's not nailed down," owner Steven King said. "Police aren't going to be able to protect every single individual. If you don't prepare yourself and get ready for the worst, you have no one to blame but yourself."
"I've probably sold more guns this past month than all of last year," said County Guns owner Adam Weinstein.
The purchases are not limited to residents. The owner of an online business that sells tactical gear to law-enforcement agencies said his warehouse in the suburb of Chesterfield has been visited by Missouri state troopers and officers from the Department of Homeland Security assigned to help state and local police.
"None of us has ever seen anything quite like this before," said Chad Weinman of Cat5 Commerce.
At the Ferguson Wal-Mart, one of more than a dozen stores attacked the night after Brown's death, managers have removed ammunition from shelves as a precaution.
The move to make the ammo less visible apparently did not deter customers. A manager said Monday that the store had sold most of its supply of bullets.
With 91 municipalities in the county, who here thinks a significant portion of the working population of Ferguson all work in Ferguson? Or even anywhere near the same place as each other?
Yeah, I thought not.
All a strike would accomplish is a much higher percentage of people in Ferguson becoming unemployed.
And, oh, how many of those people are living off of poverty wages? Yeah, taking extended time off work would do real well for them.
EDIT: I mean, that shit is paycheck to paycheck. Missing two dayscauses serious problems, and they're supposed to just head off for weeks/months?
I mean, if you're the sort of person who's willing to riot and risk getting the shit beaten out of you by cops, get arrested, and possibly lose your job for participating in a disturbance... you're probably the sort of person willing to participate in a general strike as well. But I agree that it probably won't be too effective. The last time there was a significant general strike in this country was in Oakland in 1946. Still, it's a nice thought.
I'll ask my question again, what were the contributing factors to the Rodney King riots in LA and are there any obvious parallels to the situation in Ferguson?
Mostly that the police beat the ever loving hell out of somebody, were caught on tape doing it, and after trial were acquitted. The rest was a result of basically the same type of systemic oppression over time. The acquittal was merely the flashpoint. The LAPD has a...history of...issues.
The most obvious parallel is essentially the treatment of minorities by the police. LA is more diverse, culturally speaking, including within the police, but there are still lingering issues along racial lines that are hard to ignore. Sadly, a fact that is common just about everywhere.
I have read the posts since my last, but I still do not see why anyone should excuse or empathize with rioting. Rioting is bad. Full stop. Innocent people get hurt. If a riot occurs and innocent people are hurt and killed, then more evil has come from the situation than there already was.
The idea of violent insurrection is quite frankly absurd. If you come at the king, you'd best not miss, and a violent insurrection has no chance at victory in the US. Its just a way to get more people killed AND to have those people branded as traitors, thereby discrediting their cause.
A general strike is illegal, I believe, and probably wouldn't accomplish anything anyway.
As some people said earlier, there should be a push for the justice department to investigate the Ferguson PD. That seems like it would actually be a productive course of action which could enact change.
Nobody here wants a riot, nobody anywhere wants a riot, but it seems like the people of Ferguson may have no other option. If the police cannot be held accountable for their actions and the people who are affected aren't allowed to vote and they aren't allowed to leave then violent resistance may be the only option open to them.
A general strike is not illegal, you can't force people to work, though I agree it wouldn't accomplish anything.
So, it all comes down to the Justice Department. There are obvious problems with the Ferguson PD and the surrounding government that need to be addressed or things will get very nasty.
A riot is not violent resistance though. It is people hurting other people chaotically. I really don't see how this is a viable or understandable option here. It would be a tragedy. And if people are arrested by the hated police during the riot, then the police would be in the right to arrest them, and then they would likely lose the power to vote. It is a losing proposition on every level.
What other course of action do you suggest they have? They are politically disenfranchised, squeezed for money by their police force, and - should the grand jury decline to indict - apparently at risk of fatal assault by those same police forces over transgressions as minor as jaywalking. Their court system is a farce where on any given day, a member of the court may serve as their public defender in one municipality, prosecutor the next day in another, and judge the following day in a third as they are passed from one jail to the next to have all the blood squeezed from their personal turnip.
The people that hold office above them in no way represent them, they have no power to vote them out of office, and those that are meant to serve and protect them instead extort and execute them. Rioting is awful, destructive, and unlawful, but what is being perpetrated against the people of Ferguson is arguably much worse, and rioting is an inevitable result of being left with no other options.
What would you do? If you had 3 or 4 arrest warrants on you for bull shit trumped up charges, had lost your ability to vote, and had been shown repeatedly that you can be killed with impunity if you step out of line. What would you do?
Riot is not recourse. "I am mad so I going to hurt random people" is the reaction of a petulant child or a sadist. Not a reasonable human being.
Like that is just some of the grossest profiteering. This isn't even some corporate fat cat going into some third world country they'll never think about again to dump some guns for money, right? It's these store owners fomenting fear in an already-scary situation and then selling guns to their neighbors.
I have read the posts since my last, but I still do not see why anyone should excuse or empathize with rioting. Rioting is bad. Full stop. Innocent people get hurt. If a riot occurs and innocent people are hurt and killed, then more evil has come from the situation than there already was.
The idea of violent insurrection is quite frankly absurd. If you come at the king, you'd best not miss, and a violent insurrection has no chance at victory in the US. Its just a way to get more people killed AND to have those people branded as traitors, thereby discrediting their cause.
A general strike is illegal, I believe, and probably wouldn't accomplish anything anyway.
As some people said earlier, there should be a push for the justice department to investigate the Ferguson PD. That seems like it would actually be a productive course of action which could enact change.
Nobody here wants a riot, nobody anywhere wants a riot, but it seems like the people of Ferguson may have no other option. If the police cannot be held accountable for their actions and the people who are affected aren't allowed to vote and they aren't allowed to leave then violent resistance may be the only option open to them.
A general strike is not illegal, you can't force people to work, though I agree it wouldn't accomplish anything.
So, it all comes down to the Justice Department. There are obvious problems with the Ferguson PD and the surrounding government that need to be addressed or things will get very nasty.
A riot is not violent resistance though. It is people hurting other people chaotically. I really don't see how this is a viable or understandable option here. It would be a tragedy. And if people are arrested by the hated police during the riot, then the police would be in the right to arrest them, and then they would likely lose the power to vote. It is a losing proposition on every level.
What other course of action do you suggest they have? They are politically disenfranchised, squeezed for money by their police force, and - should the grand jury decline to indict - apparently at risk of fatal assault by those same police forces over transgressions as minor as jaywalking. Their court system is a farce where on any given day, a member of the court may serve as their public defender in one municipality, prosecutor the next day in another, and judge the following day in a third as they are passed from one jail to the next to have all the blood squeezed from their personal turnip.
The people that hold office above them in no way represent them, they have no power to vote them out of office, and those that are meant to serve and protect them instead extort and execute them. Rioting is awful, destructive, and unlawful, but what is being perpetrated against the people of Ferguson is arguably much worse, and rioting is an inevitable result of being left with no other options.
What would you do? If you had 3 or 4 arrest warrants on you for bull shit trumped up charges, had lost your ability to vote, and had been shown repeatedly that you can be killed with impunity if you step out of line. What would you do?
Riot is not recourse. "I am mad so I going to hurt random people" is the reaction of a petulant child or a sadist. Not a reasonable human being.
Being forced to accept a system you aren't allowed to participate in isn't recourse either. And you're being mighty hypocritical by being upset at the idea of people in Ferguson resorting to violence over systemic oppression but giving carte blanche to police resorting to violence because someone threw a water bottle.
Like that is just some of the grossest profiteering. This isn't even some corporate fat cat going into some third world country they'll never think about again to dump some guns for money, right? It's these store owners fomenting fear in an already-scary situation and then selling guns to their neighbors.
It's what gun stores do. I'm sure the NRA has a pamphlet that details how best to do it.
Like that is just some of the grossest profiteering. This isn't even some corporate fat cat going into some third world country they'll never think about again to dump some guns for money, right? It's these store owners fomenting fear in an already-scary situation and then selling guns to their neighbors.
It's what gun stores do. I'm sure the NRA has a pamphlet that details how best to do it.
To be fair, this is typical American panic more than gun stores themselves. Even up here in liberal Vermont, gun sales spiked big time after Obama was elected, and some ammo is still near impossible to find (looking at you, .22lr).
Posts
You might be able to afford to take a couple of weeks or months off works to make a statement (because anything less would do jack shit to the dialogue), but most people can't do that.
True, I suppose it depends on the demographics of the protesters and how much the town of Ferguson really depends on their labor. Still, a general strike is simply a less-violent version of the "meet our demands, or else" threat of a riot.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
Ferguson, MO isn't a giant Walmart and the riots are expected by the authorities. They aren't used as a collective bargaining tool here, or even a means to an end.
Yeah, I thought not.
All a strike would accomplish is a much higher percentage of people in Ferguson becoming unemployed.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
And, oh, how many of those people are living off of poverty wages? Yeah, taking extended time off work would do real well for them.
EDIT: I mean, that shit is paycheck to paycheck. Missing two dayscauses serious problems, and they're supposed to just head off for weeks/months?
Actually we are the minority as the rest of the general public has not backed the citizens of Ferguson since the convenience store tape release and the media presented rioting.
No. It's not. The Posse commitatas act is how the South won the civil war. Fuck that shit; bring in the Feds.
I'm really pretty sure that nobody is considering the implications of imposing full-scale martial law anywhere within the US. This is the slippery slope. It's already been so easy to erode so many little freedoms, the minute you post armed soldiers on the street corners to enforce law there is no reason not to go after bigger freedoms.
The National Guard are not trained to be police, they're trained to be soldiers. And soldiers are trained to react in specific ways. This is a terrible fucking idea.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
If the governor decides to step on with state police to investigate and perhaps provide standard police services? Hard to argue that.
It's the idea of sending in the Guard to replace the local police that's the problem. Might as well suggest razing the town and relocating the people who live there.
Raze the town and relocate the people living there?
Euthanize the police force and transplant a new one.
They could not possibly do a worse job than the existing police so other than there being no way it will ever happen I don't see the problem.
Perhaps after we send in the National Guard we can get the local citizens to provide living arrangements to save the NG the trouble?
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
That's his point, I think.
Although I am really skeptical about the possibility of Ferguson being occupied. Like, really skeptical.
Personal note: Writing a paper on the third amendment is incredible difficult because it almost never comes up.
Anyway, the only possible good ending after Wilson isn't indicted is for the Justice Department to come in and declare the entire PD and the Prosecutor guilty of conspiracy and obstruction of justice and punish them accordingly.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
That premptively deploying the NG in one of their normal roles is equivalent to violating the constitution?
Use of the militia for law and order is not exactly novel. Its also far from ideal... but it seems like they would be less heavily armed, less confrontational, and less trampling rights than the Ferguson cops. Which is a crazy low bar to clear.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
I'm not saying I think he's right that it'll happen, just that he seems to think sending in the NG would result in things which would violate the Constitution.
The idea of violent insurrection is quite frankly absurd. If you come at the king, you'd best not miss, and a violent insurrection has no chance at victory in the US. Its just a way to get more people killed AND to have those people branded as traitors, thereby discrediting their cause.
A general strike is illegal, I believe, and probably wouldn't accomplish anything anyway.
As some people said earlier, there should be a push for the justice department to investigate the Ferguson PD. That seems like it would actually be a productive course of action which could enact change.
Nobody here wants a riot, nobody anywhere wants a riot, but it seems like the people of Ferguson may have no other option. If the police cannot be held accountable for their actions and the people who are affected aren't allowed to vote and they aren't allowed to leave then violent resistance may be the only option open to them.
A general strike is not illegal, you can't force people to work, though I agree it wouldn't accomplish anything.
So, it all comes down to the Justice Department. There are obvious problems with the Ferguson PD and the surrounding government that need to be addressed or things will get very nasty.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
A riot is not violent resistance though. It is people hurting other people chaotically. I really don't see how this is a viable or understandable option here. It would be a tragedy. And if people are arrested by the hated police during the riot, then the police would be in the right to arrest them, and then they would likely lose the power to vote. It is a losing proposition on every level.
What other course of action do you suggest they have? They are politically disenfranchised, squeezed for money by their police force, and - should the grand jury decline to indict - apparently at risk of fatal assault by those same police forces over transgressions as minor as jaywalking. Their court system is a farce where on any given day, a member of the court may serve as their public defender in one municipality, prosecutor the next day in another, and judge the following day in a third as they are passed from one jail to the next to have all the blood squeezed from their personal turnip.
The people that hold office above them in no way represent them, they have no power to vote them out of office, and those that are meant to serve and protect them instead extort and execute them. Rioting is awful, destructive, and unlawful, but what is being perpetrated against the people of Ferguson is arguably much worse, and rioting is an inevitable result of being left with no other options.
What would you do? If you had 3 or 4 arrest warrants on you for bull shit trumped up charges, had lost your ability to vote, and had been shown repeatedly that you can be killed with impunity if you step out of line. What would you do?
And it will never happen. Part of the larger problem is that police across the nation have, more or less, been allowed to act with impunity. The entire reason why a riot scenario is more likely is because the majority of Ferguson's citizenry have no recourse, either at the local or the federal level.
ABC News: Records Reveal Divide on Ferguson Police Tactics
bigstory.ap.org/article/9b946752f29445a8bc695df9c27bb5ef/gun-sales-surge-ahead-jurys-ferguson-decision
So... awesome. Totally awesome.
I mean, if you're the sort of person who's willing to riot and risk getting the shit beaten out of you by cops, get arrested, and possibly lose your job for participating in a disturbance... you're probably the sort of person willing to participate in a general strike as well. But I agree that it probably won't be too effective. The last time there was a significant general strike in this country was in Oakland in 1946. Still, it's a nice thought.
Mostly that the police beat the ever loving hell out of somebody, were caught on tape doing it, and after trial were acquitted. The rest was a result of basically the same type of systemic oppression over time. The acquittal was merely the flashpoint. The LAPD has a...history of...issues.
The most obvious parallel is essentially the treatment of minorities by the police. LA is more diverse, culturally speaking, including within the police, but there are still lingering issues along racial lines that are hard to ignore. Sadly, a fact that is common just about everywhere.
I... feel like there might be some people to blame other than yourself.
Riot is not recourse. "I am mad so I going to hurt random people" is the reaction of a petulant child or a sadist. Not a reasonable human being.
Yeah, if there is a Hell, those gun store owners will go straight to it.
Being forced to accept a system you aren't allowed to participate in isn't recourse either. And you're being mighty hypocritical by being upset at the idea of people in Ferguson resorting to violence over systemic oppression but giving carte blanche to police resorting to violence because someone threw a water bottle.
It's what gun stores do. I'm sure the NRA has a pamphlet that details how best to do it.
To be fair, this is typical American panic more than gun stores themselves. Even up here in liberal Vermont, gun sales spiked big time after Obama was elected, and some ammo is still near impossible to find (looking at you, .22lr).