I am not sure "highly regarded" is the right words. He has a history of cheating (twice in official Starcraft tournaments) and charging for coaching then not delivering.
uhh nope
when he was 12 he did cheat, by using a unfairly balanced map in non-competitive games
raise your hand if you've ever done something stupid when you were 12
I am not sure "highly regarded" is the right words. He has a history of cheating (twice in official Starcraft tournaments) and charging for coaching then not delivering.
uhh nope
when he was 12 he did cheat, by using a unfairly balanced map in non-competitive games
raise your hand if you've ever done something stupid when you were 12
Also I am not sure about the whole 'promise to coach and not deliver' I am pretty sure those were all debunked in the reddit threads where he pulled up transcripts of the stuff he had done to prove the coaching. Maybe I missed a few but he continues to be picked up for coaching by challanger teams with ex-lcs players so he has to be doing something right....
Six bans, six picks, four bans, four picks. That seems way more relevant.
There was a podcast with ghostcrawler and co where they said this kind of system makes more sense to them in a DOTA style environment where strategies tend to much more reliant on particular champions.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Either way, he apparently goes through the game afterwards in more detail with people who he coaches, so his reactions during the game can be taken more as riffing than serious coaching.
Getting hired by amateur league teams full of 17 year olds who are probably mostly managed by themselves doesn't make you a quality coach. I don't know anything about the guy really, but if his level of coaching is reflected in that video on the last page, he's about as useful a coach as Barry Switzer.
Getting hired by amateur league teams full of 17 year olds who are probably mostly managed by themselves doesn't make you a quality coach. I don't know anything about the guy really, but if his level of coaching is reflected in that video on the last page, he's about as useful a coach as Barry Switzer.
If you watch his stream he goes into a lot of detail after games and before games as well.
Getting hired by amateur league teams full of 17 year olds who are probably mostly managed by themselves doesn't make you a quality coach. I don't know anything about the guy really, but if his level of coaching is reflected in that video on the last page, he's about as useful a coach as Barry Switzer.
As Bethryn said, he goes through the game in real detail afterwards. This stuff he says at the time is mainly the sort of stuff my friends yell at me when i'm playing.
Either way, he apparently goes through the game afterwards in more detail with people who he coaches, so his reactions during the game can be taken more as riffing than serious coaching.
I've seen his real analysis beforehand and it definitely doesn't lend itself to real time coaching, which is what that video is a recording of. The post-game analysis work I'm sure was much more specific and helpful.
Getting hired by amateur league teams full of 17 year olds who are probably mostly managed by themselves doesn't make you a quality coach. I don't know anything about the guy really, but if his level of coaching is reflected in that video on the last page, he's about as useful a coach as Barry Switzer.
As Bethryn said, he goes through the game in real detail afterwards. This stuff he says at the time is mainly the sort of stuff my friends yell at me when i'm playing.
I forgot about Graves. At the moment I have a 'Play until I lose a match' rule, then watch the match and work out where I went wrong. My first loss of the day was me in the jungle and it was stressful because not a single lane was winning and there was nothing I could really do (Plus I don't enjoy the jungle at all). So I went ahead and played another game. I have been having a lot of success on Graves. My biggest gripe with him was how crappy his auto-attack speed was at before you picked up an attack speed item but with the go to ADC runes being Aspeed quints its a dream to last hit with him. Graves is just so much fun. smoke screen in high silver / low gold forces so many people to freak out, the amount of people that flash out of that is hilarious.
Getting hired by amateur league teams full of 17 year olds who are probably mostly managed by themselves doesn't make you a quality coach. I don't know anything about the guy really, but if his level of coaching is reflected in that video on the last page, he's about as useful a coach as Barry Switzer.
As Bethryn said, he goes through the game in real detail afterwards. This stuff he says at the time is mainly the sort of stuff my friends yell at me when i'm playing.
Getting hired by amateur league teams full of 17 year olds who are probably mostly managed by themselves doesn't make you a quality coach. I don't know anything about the guy really, but if his level of coaching is reflected in that video on the last page, he's about as useful a coach as Barry Switzer.
As Bethryn said, he goes through the game in real detail afterwards. This stuff he says at the time is mainly the sort of stuff my friends yell at me when i'm playing.
Yeong-Jin 'Gamsu' Noh - Top Lane
Alberto 'Crumbzz' Rengifo - Jungle
Danny 'Shiphtur' Le - Mid Lane
Yong-in 'Core JJ' Jo - Marksman
Alan 'KiWiKiD' Nguyen – Support
Getting hired by amateur league teams full of 17 year olds who are probably mostly managed by themselves doesn't make you a quality coach. I don't know anything about the guy really, but if his level of coaching is reflected in that video on the last page, he's about as useful a coach as Barry Switzer.
As Bethryn said, he goes through the game in real detail afterwards. This stuff he says at the time is mainly the sort of stuff my friends yell at me when i'm playing.
Yeong-Jin 'Gamsu' Noh - Top Lane
Alberto 'Crumbzz' Rengifo - Jungle
Danny 'Shiphtur' Le - Mid Lane
Yong-in 'Core JJ' Jo - Marksman
Alan 'KiWiKiD' Nguyen – Support
I know that name Gamsu.... wasn't he the #1 Master tier player in KR and he is like 17 or something? I know Core JJ is like one of the top soloq ADCs in KR.... interesting I remember seeing a reddit post of him asking on inven how to join Dignitas after qtpie stepped down.
Because he is a stable Jungler and can act as a more mature big brother type figure to the other younger players. He doesn't make flashy plays but he was consistently good in the games he played. Most of the junglers in the NA Pro scene are not just outright bad, but you don't see the same level of dominance out of them as the KR scene.
Player: "I don't understand how to get better"
LastShadow: "just play more"
Wow, such help. He doesn't explain anything (and contradicted himself a bunch).
Yes LastShadow is an awful coach. He thinks he's helping coach these people when really he's just kind of a dick. He's basically the Gweneth Paltrow of coaching.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Player: "I don't understand how to get better"
LastShadow: "just play more"
Wow, such help. He doesn't explain anything (and contradicted himself a bunch).
Yes LastShadow is an awful coach. He thinks he's helping coach these people when really he's just kind of a dick. He's basically the Gweneth Paltrow of coaching.
Do you actually know anything about him or are you making that judgment based on one 10 minute sampled clip?
Player: "I don't understand how to get better"
LastShadow: "just play more"
Wow, such help. He doesn't explain anything (and contradicted himself a bunch).
Yes LastShadow is an awful coach. He thinks he's helping coach these people when really he's just kind of a dick. He's basically the Gweneth Paltrow of coaching.
Do you actually know anything about him or are you making that judgment based on one 10 minute sampled clip?
I've watched probably about 20 of those same videos from his youtube channel after whiteshark linked them to me a couple of months ago.
Let me back up and second, and say that he's not awful per se - he's more of a mixed bag. The better you are at playing the game, the more respectful he tends to be towards you, and the more useful his advice becomes.
The problem I find with him is that in the lower tiers (gold/silver) he's fairly dismissive and contemptuous towards those players. He constantly asks them stupid, antagonistic questions like "Why aren't you doing this, or this? Why'd you think that was a good idea? We'll if you're not garbage you'll do X, did you do it? NOPE YOU DIDN'T!" And that's not just to the people he's coaching either, it's everyone on both teams.
And yes, those players are not good at the game, but the smugness really rubs me the wrong way. The mere fact that they understand they are bad at the game and are asking for help is a clear indicator that they know they need work, and is no reason to be abusive towards them. While he never comes outright and says it, my sense is that he feels golds/silvers are beneath him. When I've seen his diamond videos, he treats it like a job. When I've seen his silver/gold videos it's treated more as an annoyance.
And you know what, maybe he's a great coach for Challenger level teams - I don't have much insight into that. But from what I've seen of him in his videos for lower tier players, he's not particularly effective.
So I wanted to try Diana in the new jungle in ranked, and I like her. I even did well, but as you can see, the Zed on my team kind of carried the game a little bit.
So I wanted to try Diana in the new jungle in ranked, and I like her. I even did well, but as you can see, the Zed on my team kind of carried the game a little bit.
Good lord 4/5 members of the opposing team had double digit deaths. Also your lane taxing is pretty impressive to have higher CS then the ADC...
Yeah the Leblanc told us on champ select s/he was going AD top Leblanc. Some of my other teammates started giving the person a little crap about it, but they shut up and let him/her play. And s/he played well.
I really love ROA/Jungle AP item/Rylai's as a core on Diana. It's so sticky and tanky while still having nice damage. I feel like it hits the AP fighter spot that Diana really needs to be in to not be stupid and binary.
I think I tried coaching people in League once. I think it consisted of a lot of "You should be doing X right now" and then "Try to be less bad at CS and using your abilities."
"You could normally fight him here and win but you have 15 CS instead of 40 so you don't have any items and don't do any damage."
I think I tried coaching people in League once. I think it consisted of a lot of "You should be doing X right now" and then "Try to be less bad at CS and using your abilities."
"You could normally fight him here and win but you have 15 CS instead of 40 so you don't have any items and don't do any damage."
I would let you coach me JAEF. Only because if anything I can sit through 10+ games of varega raging at me and I consider it endearing rather then hate fueled death threats.
I think I tried coaching people in League once. I think it consisted of a lot of "You should be doing X right now" and then "Try to be less bad at CS and using your abilities."
"You could normally fight him here and win but you have 15 CS instead of 40 so you don't have any items and don't do any damage."
Honestly, when you coached me a couple times, I got a lot out of it.
Well finals are next week and I have a nice break after that. If anyone wants a laid back coaching session I'd be happy to provide one. Everyone's always generous with the mystery gifts and promo cards here so I'd love to give back. Doesn't matter what region as long as you can stream and skahp/vahnt.
I think I tried coaching people in League once. I think it consisted of a lot of "You should be doing X right now" and then "Try to be less bad at CS and using your abilities."
"You could normally fight him here and win but you have 15 CS instead of 40 so you don't have any items and don't do any damage."
Be less bad at CS is like the best coaching tip you could give anyone sub diamond
I think I tried coaching people in League once. I think it consisted of a lot of "You should be doing X right now" and then "Try to be less bad at CS and using your abilities."
"You could normally fight him here and win but you have 15 CS instead of 40 so you don't have any items and don't do any damage."
There is a huge difference between coaching players who are already mechanically solid and players who need significant improvement in many areas. As you've seen.
This is why LastShadow is actually pretty decent at coaching diamond+ players, because he gets away from the obvious (to him) constant errors his player is making and focuses on the real minutia of the game. Things like proper gank paths, proper timing, strategy, map reading, etc - essentially the high level fabric of the game.
It is actually quite difficult to transition away from this mentality and be a supportive teacher for players who are still struggling with the basics. And pretty much everything below plat, and maybe even everything below Diamond is just the basics.
Below Diamond his videos basically boil down to:
LS) You should be doing X, why aren't you doing X?
Player) I don't know how I should be doing X, or alternatively, doing X is really hard for me.
LS) OK, well if you were better mechanically doing X would be easy.
Player) How do I get better mechanically?
LS) Play more.
This is really unhelpful for the player. If playing more actually helped, this player would have just simply done that to start with rather than reaching out for advice. And perhaps I shouldn't be so harsh on LastShadow, because knowing this is difficult and requires understanding the full spectrum of player needs.
What this person is looking for is structure. They're looking for heuristics to help guide them towards getting better. The answer isn't "Play More", it's "here's a set of drills you can do to help you", or "Here's what what you can do to practice". Because what this person really needs, before they can talk about bigger game strategy, is a better understanding of fundamentals. This requires a TON of patience as a good player, because basically every other action they take will stupefy (and sometimes infuriate) you. But you must be patient, so you can understand how this person thinks, and help guide their thought process towards better decisions.
At least, that's been my observation helping a number of people get to gold.
There is a lot of tedium in coaching players through the basics.
Sometimes though players are held back more by their hardware, if your getting 5-10 fps it can be hard to mechanically execute a lot of things due to actual lag.
And league still could use an official replay system.
I think I tried coaching people in League once. I think it consisted of a lot of "You should be doing X right now" and then "Try to be less bad at CS and using your abilities."
"You could normally fight him here and win but you have 15 CS instead of 40 so you don't have any items and don't do any damage."
I would let you coach me JAEF. Only because if anything I can sit through 10+ games of varega raging at me and I consider it endearing rather then hate fueled death threats.
Oh I'm sorry, didn't we have a winning record as a duo? Weren't we soloqueue gods? No? Well fuck you, you don't have freedom anymore.
I think I tried coaching people in League once. I think it consisted of a lot of "You should be doing X right now" and then "Try to be less bad at CS and using your abilities."
"You could normally fight him here and win but you have 15 CS instead of 40 so you don't have any items and don't do any damage."
I would let you coach me JAEF. Only because if anything I can sit through 10+ games of varega raging at me and I consider it endearing rather then hate fueled death threats.
Oh I'm sorry, didn't we have a winning record as a duo? Weren't we soloqueue gods? No? Well fuck you, you don't have freedom anymore.
We were Gods my friend then America dumped me and Britain was on old flame that welcomed my broken heart with open arms. During my rehabilitation with Britain I have also improved a lot.
Is there any cure to csing better other than playing more, though? I've seen all these exercises suggested in bot games (try to cs without runes or masteries, etc), but did those of you with plat or diamond csing skills actually do those exercises, or did you just concentrate on csing while playing?
I think I can say that cs is not what's holding me back at the moment; it's the fact that I somehow manage to constantly throw while having significantly more gold (as an adc). I think that means it's a problem in positioning and/or vision and/or overall map movements.
I have started using a gold advantage to sometimes buy a defensive item earlier, but now that there's no negatron cloak, I don't know about that.
Posts
uhh nope
when he was 12 he did cheat, by using a unfairly balanced map in non-competitive games
raise your hand if you've ever done something stupid when you were 12
Also I am not sure about the whole 'promise to coach and not deliver' I am pretty sure those were all debunked in the reddit threads where he pulled up transcripts of the stuff he had done to prove the coaching. Maybe I missed a few but he continues to be picked up for coaching by challanger teams with ex-lcs players so he has to be doing something right....
There was a podcast with ghostcrawler and co where they said this kind of system makes more sense to them in a DOTA style environment where strategies tend to much more reliant on particular champions.
If you watch his stream he goes into a lot of detail after games and before games as well.
Here's his analysis of that game: http://www.twitch.tv/imls/b/594454358?t=285m
Also he pronounces Kha'zix like Kha-jix or kha'zhix. Which I've gotta start using.
All his pronunciations are based on the Korean translations
Yeah, his better coaching videos are the ones where he's going over a pre-filmed game with someone, not live coaching.
New Dignitas lineup
I know that name Gamsu.... wasn't he the #1 Master tier player in KR and he is like 17 or something? I know Core JJ is like one of the top soloq ADCs in KR.... interesting I remember seeing a reddit post of him asking on inven how to join Dignitas after qtpie stepped down.
Joe's Stream.
Because he is a stable Jungler and can act as a more mature big brother type figure to the other younger players. He doesn't make flashy plays but he was consistently good in the games he played. Most of the junglers in the NA Pro scene are not just outright bad, but you don't see the same level of dominance out of them as the KR scene.
Yes LastShadow is an awful coach. He thinks he's helping coach these people when really he's just kind of a dick. He's basically the Gweneth Paltrow of coaching.
Do you actually know anything about him or are you making that judgment based on one 10 minute sampled clip?
I've watched probably about 20 of those same videos from his youtube channel after whiteshark linked them to me a couple of months ago.
Let me back up and second, and say that he's not awful per se - he's more of a mixed bag. The better you are at playing the game, the more respectful he tends to be towards you, and the more useful his advice becomes.
The problem I find with him is that in the lower tiers (gold/silver) he's fairly dismissive and contemptuous towards those players. He constantly asks them stupid, antagonistic questions like "Why aren't you doing this, or this? Why'd you think that was a good idea? We'll if you're not garbage you'll do X, did you do it? NOPE YOU DIDN'T!" And that's not just to the people he's coaching either, it's everyone on both teams.
And yes, those players are not good at the game, but the smugness really rubs me the wrong way. The mere fact that they understand they are bad at the game and are asking for help is a clear indicator that they know they need work, and is no reason to be abusive towards them. While he never comes outright and says it, my sense is that he feels golds/silvers are beneath him. When I've seen his diamond videos, he treats it like a job. When I've seen his silver/gold videos it's treated more as an annoyance.
And you know what, maybe he's a great coach for Challenger level teams - I don't have much insight into that. But from what I've seen of him in his videos for lower tier players, he's not particularly effective.
Good lord 4/5 members of the opposing team had double digit deaths. Also your lane taxing is pretty impressive to have higher CS then the ADC...
MWO: Adamski
Needs more ROA's.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
I really love ROA/Jungle AP item/Rylai's as a core on Diana. It's so sticky and tanky while still having nice damage. I feel like it hits the AP fighter spot that Diana really needs to be in to not be stupid and binary.
"You could normally fight him here and win but you have 15 CS instead of 40 so you don't have any items and don't do any damage."
I would let you coach me JAEF. Only because if anything I can sit through 10+ games of varega raging at me and I consider it endearing rather then hate fueled death threats.
Honestly, when you coached me a couple times, I got a lot out of it.
Joe's Stream.
Be less bad at CS is like the best coaching tip you could give anyone sub diamond
There is a huge difference between coaching players who are already mechanically solid and players who need significant improvement in many areas. As you've seen.
This is why LastShadow is actually pretty decent at coaching diamond+ players, because he gets away from the obvious (to him) constant errors his player is making and focuses on the real minutia of the game. Things like proper gank paths, proper timing, strategy, map reading, etc - essentially the high level fabric of the game.
It is actually quite difficult to transition away from this mentality and be a supportive teacher for players who are still struggling with the basics. And pretty much everything below plat, and maybe even everything below Diamond is just the basics.
Below Diamond his videos basically boil down to:
LS) You should be doing X, why aren't you doing X?
Player) I don't know how I should be doing X, or alternatively, doing X is really hard for me.
LS) OK, well if you were better mechanically doing X would be easy.
Player) How do I get better mechanically?
LS) Play more.
This is really unhelpful for the player. If playing more actually helped, this player would have just simply done that to start with rather than reaching out for advice. And perhaps I shouldn't be so harsh on LastShadow, because knowing this is difficult and requires understanding the full spectrum of player needs.
What this person is looking for is structure. They're looking for heuristics to help guide them towards getting better. The answer isn't "Play More", it's "here's a set of drills you can do to help you", or "Here's what what you can do to practice". Because what this person really needs, before they can talk about bigger game strategy, is a better understanding of fundamentals. This requires a TON of patience as a good player, because basically every other action they take will stupefy (and sometimes infuriate) you. But you must be patient, so you can understand how this person thinks, and help guide their thought process towards better decisions.
At least, that's been my observation helping a number of people get to gold.
Sometimes though players are held back more by their hardware, if your getting 5-10 fps it can be hard to mechanically execute a lot of things due to actual lag.
And league still could use an official replay system.
Oh I'm sorry, didn't we have a winning record as a duo? Weren't we soloqueue gods? No? Well fuck you, you don't have freedom anymore.
Hahaha. 4 years and counting. Maybe even 5 now
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
We were Gods my friend then America dumped me and Britain was on old flame that welcomed my broken heart with open arms. During my rehabilitation with Britain I have also improved a lot.
I think I can say that cs is not what's holding me back at the moment; it's the fact that I somehow manage to constantly throw while having significantly more gold (as an adc). I think that means it's a problem in positioning and/or vision and/or overall map movements.
I have started using a gold advantage to sometimes buy a defensive item earlier, but now that there's no negatron cloak, I don't know about that.