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D&D Epic Campaign Question

naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
edited October 2006 in Critical Failures
OK, to make a long story short, I am playing in my first Epic Campaign, which will be starting in the next week or so. We generally start our characters at 1st-3rd level, so starting at 25th level is a bit daunting. To complicate things, I am playing a Wizard for the first time. I have a handle on that, though; I seen enough Wizards played--both poorly and well--to write a lengthy treatise on their effective play.

Before I get to my actual question, I will list my tentative level progression. Wizard 5/Crypt Lord 10 (from Sword & Sorcery's "Relics and Rituals")/Archmage 3/Red Wizard 7. We are playing in an odd mish-mash of 3.0 and 3.5, which is basically best for my character, since that build is far more effective in the 3.0 environment.

My problem is two-fold. First, Crypt Lord confers the Lich template at level 10 (character level 15, for my build). Next, my party contains two evil Necromancers: myself (obviously), and a Wiz/Cler/True Necro build. The problem should be fairly obvious: I'm evil. He's evil. I'm undead. And he's uber-tron at molesting the undead.

I don't anticipate party-on-party violence, but with two L25 Necromancers, vying for ascension with virtually identical portfolios, I have to accept that it is a possibility. Honestly, now that I think about it, it's probably a likelihood.

So, how exactly does turning/rebuking work? I have played a lot of D&D, but oddly enough, haven't seen the turn mechanic in action all that often. Unless I'm reading the table incorrectly, you can never turn or rebuke an undead who has five or more HD than the turner/rebuker has Cleric levels; at this point, I am effectively four levels higher, thanks to the Lich's turn resistance. Is there a way to increase this? Spell Resistance, such as that conferred by a Mantle of Epic Spell Resistance, does not cover turn checks, correct? The Lich's immunity to mind-affecting spells and abilities does not apply to resisting a Cleric's control resulting from his turn check, right?

Any help is appreciated.

tl;dr I am playing an undead in a party with a True Necromancer. Please help me figure our how I can avoid being immediately made to fetch my Phylactery for him. :)

naporeon on

Posts

  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    You could take one less level of Crypt Lord. >>

    I dunno how else to bolster your stuff, but... the cleric needs to roll a 24 on a straight 1d20+chamod to effect you. I dunno how high his Charisma is by level 25, but in my experience clerics put more emphasis on Wisdom than Charisma.

    Of course, if he *does* get the 24, then you're Awed (2d6 + charisma + 25 > 25.) This doesn't mean anything except that everyone gets +2 to attack rolls against you.

    He doesn't have 50 HD, so he can't Control you.

    (this is 3.5 stuff, dunno how turning works in 3.0.)

    INeedNoSalt on
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Err...I don't think Necromancers can control liches, seeing as how liches are what necromancers aspire to become.

    DisruptorX2 on
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  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    With all those classes, wouldn't you - theoretically - be like one level or more below him, because of experience penalties? Just wondering...

    Reynolds on
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  • naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    t INeedNoSalt Ha. I was wondering if anyone would suggest that!

    But as for the 50 HD bit, why does he need that? Does he need to have twice my HD in order to Control me? I thought that you could control up to your own HD in undead. I don't know why I am so confused by this relatively simple mechanic, but the SRD isn't really helping me much, there.



    t DisruptorX2 Yes, they can control liches, if they are of high enough level and ability. But the important distinction here is that he's not just a Necromancy Specialist, he is also a fully progressed True Necromancer (with Cleric levels, obviously).



    Also, SR does NOT apply to resisting turning, correct?

    naporeon on
  • naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Reynolds wrote:
    With all those classes, wouldn't you - theoretically - be like one level or more below him, because of experience penalties? Just wondering...

    No. I have no XP penalties. PrC do not count toward multiclass penalties, and my Lich template was acquired via a PrC, not by applying the template directly.

    EDIT: I'm actually considered four levels ABOVE him, in the event of a turn/rebuke check, if I'm reading this correctly...since I get the Lich's +4 Turn Resistance.

    naporeon on
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    naporeon wrote:
    But as for the 50 HD bit, why does he need that? Does he need to have twice my HD in order to Control me? I thought that you could control up to your own HD in undead. I don't know why I am so confused by this relatively simple mechanic, but the SRD isn't really helping me much, there.
    Destroying Undead

    If you have twice as many levels (or more) as the undead have Hit Dice, you destroy any that you would normally turn.

    Evil Clerics and Undead

    Evil clerics channel negative energy to rebuke (awe) or command (control) undead rather than channeling positive energy to turn or destroy them. An evil cleric makes the equivalent of a turning check. Undead that would be turned are rebuked instead, and those that would be destroyed are commanded.

    INeedNoSalt on
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Well, I guess your solution is easy: poison him in his sleep and raise him as an undead slave?

    Judging from the math posted above me, though, I guess you don't need to worry.

    DisruptorX2 on
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  • naporeonnaporeon Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Well, I have no intention of destroying him. I am LE, and presumably, we are only working together because we were friends in the past.

    As for that, my Spell Save DC is so high--ESPECIALLY if I toss Red Wizard Circle Magic on there--in Necromancy (which includes all body-related Transmutation spells, via Crypt Lord's "Extended Necromancy" class feature), that I could use something like Polymorph Any Object to turn him into a Human Skin-bound and Human Skin parchment spellbook, and he would have no hope of making the save. Among many other options, really.

    If he can't command or destroy me, however, it's a moot point. He isn't that big a threat, especially since I'll be hitting Demilich in four levels (@ L29). Also, as I said, I am not out to destroy him.

    Yet.

    naporeon on
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