I don't see where this wellspring of cooperation comes from. There is cooperation in mechanics like CC, divvying up mobs, kiting, and so forth. There is no cooperation in "Okay, my threat bar is high enough for you to start dpsing." it's just an arbitrary thing invented so tanks have their own form of dps. And it makes people feel like shit because you have to throttle yourself, and a string of lucky procs/crits could jeopardize the whole attempt.
If you think raiding is a dps zerg now then you have touched raiding since I don't know when. Unless you're talking about LFR, which has just about every interesting mechanic watered down because it's meant to be completed with complete strangers who may or may not be so good on the whole teamwork thing.
Whereas I'd argue that both approaches have their merits.
Like, what if FF14 decided to get fancy and make the Paladin and Warrior feel really different. So in a theoretical patch, the Warrior keeps the traditional aggro system, but the Paladin gets updated to use a more cooldown-focused, damage-mitigation approach like in WoW.
That... kinda already is in the game...
PLDs are very much the standard style tank. Simple basic ability chain and a tonne of defensive cool downs and their focus is more on rotating cool downs. Warriors have a far more in the way of ability chains with three chains and the option to just drop out of tanking mode without losing their combo state. One chain is purely threat, one is damage mitigation and the other is damage increasing (and hence threat buffing). Deciding when you can use the other non-threat chains is something you have to decide in advance as well as deciding if you should break a chain simply to get into a different 'path'. Inner Beast is notionally ~21s cool down but there's also Infuriate which is a 60s CD on demand instant 5 Wrath stacks. Or you can give up the Inner Beast and drop Steel Cyclone for a good threat bomb. Or there's Unchained for a stupidly huge threat buff. And let's not forget Unchained + Berserk + Bloodbath + lots of mobs to Overpower.
For a supposed brainless berserker, the Warrior job actually has a lot of hidden resources and decision making to make the best use of their toolkit.
I don't see where this wellspring of cooperation comes from. There is cooperation in mechanics like CC, divvying up mobs, kiting, and so forth. There is no cooperation in "Okay, my threat bar is high enough for you to start dpsing." it's just an arbitrary thing invented so tanks have their own form of dps. And it makes people feel like shit because you have to throttle yourself, and a string of lucky procs/crits could jeopardize the whole attempt.
If you think raiding is a dps zerg now then you have touched raiding since I don't know when. Unless you're talking about LFR, which has just about every interesting mechanic watered down because it's meant to be completed with complete strangers who may or may not be so good on the whole teamwork thing.
I'm actually in FCoB at the moment. What I meant by that was the DPS just goes full out the whole fight while the tank manages aggro amongst various mobs (though adds are usually only about when the boss is channeling something or otherwise not involved in the fight).
Like I said, agree to disagree. I don't think either of us is going to change the other's mind.
Got to 21 on my PLD, but I got the WAR axe from King Mog so now I kind of want to level that instead.
That axe is amazing and I fully support that decision.
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
0
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
My new goal in life is acquiring a Spriggan Cap.
The only question is; do I continue to try my hand at the various map roulettes to get an unhidden map that might give me a cap maybe someday, or do I save 2 million gil and market board buy it?
0
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
Also, the correct answer to any tank quandary in FF14 is to level both PLD and WAR because they are both great for different reasons.
I only hope Dark Knight can contribute to their role without being too much like one or the other or failing to be a good tank. I get the feeling it's gonna be a bloodsucker, a magic based tank and/or maybe a little dodge tanky.
0
EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
The only question is; do I continue to try my hand at the various map roulettes to get an unhidden map that might give me a cap maybe someday, or do I save 2 million gil and market board buy it?
It depends.... How's RNGesus treating you?
We did hundreds of Piesteskin maps (no exaggeration, there's four of us that dig a map a day give or take, and have since they added maps) without getting a Bluebird pet, then got two in the same day.... and haven't gotten one since.
The only question is; do I continue to try my hand at the various map roulettes to get an unhidden map that might give me a cap maybe someday, or do I save 2 million gil and market board buy it?
It depends.... How's RNGesus treating you?
We did hundreds of Piesteskin maps (no exaggeration, there's four of us that dig a map a day give or take, and have since they added maps) without getting a Bluebird pet, then got two in the same day.... and haven't gotten one since.
My character name is Rota Wyrmblood. Which is the horrible byproduct of sleepily choosing a name at random at 3am at launch. I've been debating changing it and even went as far as to roll a new character(Before you could name change).
But OH LOOK, the new race is basically half dragon half humanoid dudes.
SO now I'm required by law to race change and keep the name, Rota Wyrmblood.
I think the only way to "solve" queue times is to make tank and healer classes just as inviting to play as DPS.
Of course, figuring out how to do that is the hard part that I'm sure many, many game developers have been trying to figure out for over a decade now.
I don't think being fun to play or not is the problem. I think the responsibility of keeping everyone alive (whether tanking or healing) turns a lot of people off and I don't think you can do anything about that with game mechanics. At least, I've never heard a good idea.
You'll note that I said "inviting," not "fun."
I agree that healing and tanking are fun.
But as you yourself stated, it's not inviting because of the extra responsibility (especially for tanks).
Yes, I quoted you, but I wasn't disagreeing with you. I meant to say I was agreeing with you and move the conversation along. I'm bad at forums.
I usually don't like to tank because I feel like they are generally the leaders in the group and I don't want that role. I do like healing and usually that is the way I go in every MMO since they got rid of Enchanters and CC classes that were my favorite in EQ.
Speaking of game mechanics... I guess what I'm saying is, I miss CC! I understand why it is gone, but I don't have to like it.
Get off my lawn!!!
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited December 2014
I'm gonna make the bestest army recruit!
Welcome you to Comrade Nyan's glorious workers' paradise!
Behold! The Glorious Workers' Tree! Great Leader tells us that it provides our mighty nation with all the fruit we could want, provided no one looks at it- ah I screwed up.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
I successfully drunkenly made a character on Sarg at 2AM! Woo!
Character name is Myth Andir after a lost healer friend. Drunk people are sentimental.
Walt on
+12
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Commissar Khatrovski tells me all proud soldiers of the Glorious Nyan Workers' Paradise must be trained in martial combat. I'm pretty sure you just poke 'em with the pointy end.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Making good progress over the holidays. Got my Conjurer to 24, plus Arcanist 15, Rogue 15 and Thamataugreishkdfjh to 10. I've also worked on a bunch of the crafting stuff ( got almost all to 5) and I think I'll focus mainly on Botanist and Weaving.
I'm having fun just running around, doing fates and switching between classes. Not very focused, but enjoyable!
edit - I also managed to get on Sargatanas, name is Maise Belle if you want to say hi.
I think I'm going to level all 3 caster classes to 30 first. Maybe just 26 on Thau, I really want Swiftcast, and I'd like to try both Scholar and White Mage.
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
I think I'm going to level all 3 caster classes to 30 first. Maybe just 26 on Thau, I really want Swiftcast, and I'd like to try both Scholar and White Mage.
Swiftcast is civilization.
Certainly a must have for WHMs.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Posts
If you think raiding is a dps zerg now then you have touched raiding since I don't know when. Unless you're talking about LFR, which has just about every interesting mechanic watered down because it's meant to be completed with complete strangers who may or may not be so good on the whole teamwork thing.
That... kinda already is in the game...
PLDs are very much the standard style tank. Simple basic ability chain and a tonne of defensive cool downs and their focus is more on rotating cool downs. Warriors have a far more in the way of ability chains with three chains and the option to just drop out of tanking mode without losing their combo state. One chain is purely threat, one is damage mitigation and the other is damage increasing (and hence threat buffing). Deciding when you can use the other non-threat chains is something you have to decide in advance as well as deciding if you should break a chain simply to get into a different 'path'. Inner Beast is notionally ~21s cool down but there's also Infuriate which is a 60s CD on demand instant 5 Wrath stacks. Or you can give up the Inner Beast and drop Steel Cyclone for a good threat bomb. Or there's Unchained for a stupidly huge threat buff. And let's not forget Unchained + Berserk + Bloodbath + lots of mobs to Overpower.
For a supposed brainless berserker, the Warrior job actually has a lot of hidden resources and decision making to make the best use of their toolkit.
I'm actually in FCoB at the moment. What I meant by that was the DPS just goes full out the whole fight while the tank manages aggro amongst various mobs (though adds are usually only about when the boss is channeling something or otherwise not involved in the fight).
Like I said, agree to disagree. I don't think either of us is going to change the other's mind.
That axe is amazing and I fully support that decision.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
The only question is; do I continue to try my hand at the various map roulettes to get an unhidden map that might give me a cap maybe someday, or do I save 2 million gil and market board buy it?
I only hope Dark Knight can contribute to their role without being too much like one or the other or failing to be a good tank. I get the feeling it's gonna be a bloodsucker, a magic based tank and/or maybe a little dodge tanky.
Take GLD to 22 for Provoke since you're right there. You'll have to get it eventually anyway.
It depends.... How's RNGesus treating you?
We did hundreds of Piesteskin maps (no exaggeration, there's four of us that dig a map a day give or take, and have since they added maps) without getting a Bluebird pet, then got two in the same day.... and haven't gotten one since.
Welp, time to start saving gil.
My character name is Rota Wyrmblood. Which is the horrible byproduct of sleepily choosing a name at random at 3am at launch. I've been debating changing it and even went as far as to roll a new character(Before you could name change).
But OH LOOK, the new race is basically half dragon half humanoid dudes.
SO now I'm required by law to race change and keep the name, Rota Wyrmblood.
ALL HAIL YOSHI P.
Yes, I quoted you, but I wasn't disagreeing with you. I meant to say I was agreeing with you and move the conversation along. I'm bad at forums.
I usually don't like to tank because I feel like they are generally the leaders in the group and I don't want that role. I do like healing and usually that is the way I go in every MMO since they got rid of Enchanters and CC classes that were my favorite in EQ.
Speaking of game mechanics... I guess what I'm saying is, I miss CC! I understand why it is gone, but I don't have to like it.
Get off my lawn!!!
Welcome you to Comrade Nyan's glorious workers' paradise!
Behold! The Glorious Workers' Tree! Great Leader tells us that it provides our mighty nation with all the fruit we could want, provided no one looks at it- ah I screwed up.
the prophecy fulfills
the king returns to his ghosts
Yes!
YES!!
Who?
We need to donate furnishings to Kanai Hana so that this can make a come-back:
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Character name is Myth Andir after a lost healer friend. Drunk people are sentimental.
i am your maker and the lifeblood that courses through your company of the free
Oh, you went to FF14 after leaving the Golden City. That makes sense.
"Which of you is led by Merlwyb?"
"Oh well that's the Mae-"
"Them."
Sultana for Lyfe, yo. Her adorableness is beyond all measurement.
edit- Though I think we can all agree that at least it wasn't the Twin Adders.
Till Sea Swallows All!
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
also gridinia is the best city which is what's really important here
I'm having fun just running around, doing fates and switching between classes. Not very focused, but enjoyable!
edit - I also managed to get on Sargatanas, name is Maise Belle if you want to say hi.
I'd follow those her anywhere.
Now playing: Teardown and Baldur's Gate 3 (co-op)
Sunday Spotlight: Horror Tales: The Wine
But I do.
I got my Zodiac Weapon. How curious, I can actually read this without going blind!
50 Armorer get!!!!
And with came the following:
I daresay my class tab is finally starting to look a little presentable!
I think I'm right on track to tidying things up before the expansion
XBOne | LyrKing
Swiftcast is civilization.
Certainly a must have for WHMs.