Oh yeah it also means if you can take out the IT department all the ICE strength bonuses go away then rather than end of turn so the corp has to heavily defend it to keep their central ice strong.
It did look pretty stupidly strong as it was read on the card, so I'd wondered if you were maybe only able to use it once per turn and they forgot to add that or something.
I dunno, that sort of rate of return just feels a little out of place in Netrunner, so I really did wonder if something slipped through.
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
The difference for me is that I never saw it as an "All-in" card. You can play it as a threat the runner basically has to deal with, and it's a card where you can invest in it for a turn to give +3 strength to one piece of ICE, and +2 to the one behind it, which is really not bad at all. And honestly, I think that's the key difference - realizing that you don't use IT department to ensure some subroutines fire, so much as to get some decent extra taxation out of your ICE. The above will more than likely require the runner to spend roughly 5 extra credits for your 3 clicks. And if they axe IT in the process, you still break even on investments (your install and rez to their run and trash). If they don't, you're at a baseline of 1 counter and can invest another turn to really turn it up. +4 and 3 strength is still a very significant swing, and if the runner can't deal with it at that point you add a huge amount of pressure.
Care to elaborate, because I would have always expected that, as a self-referential card, it was a continuous-update. I still thought it was good working that way anyway, so ... I see no problem with it.
As I understand it: Interpretation A (how a lot of people thought it worked because it sounds very similar to the way Datasucker works)
IT department has 3 counters
Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department checks how many counters are currently on it (2) and gives an ICE a bonus of +3 strength.
Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department checks how many counters are currently on it (1) and gives an ICE a bonus of +2 strength. ICE is now at +5 strength
Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department checks how many counters are currently on it (0) and gives an ICE a bonus of +1 strength. ICE is now at +6 strength
This interpretation gives geometric returns and gets amazing value/click once you have 5 or more counters already on.
Interpretation B (What Lukas's ruling seems to indicate)
IT department has 3 counters
Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department gives an ICE an ability '+1 strength until the end of the turn for each power counter on IT department (including the one spent)'. ICE has a bonus of +3 strength.
Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department gives an ICE a second instance of '+1 strength until the end of the turn for each power counter on IT department (including the one spent)'. Since IT has 1 counter on it, the ICE gets two +2's (the current number plus the counter spent in each of their abilities) for a total of +4.
Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department gives an ICE a third instance of '+1 strength until the end of the turn for each power counter on IT department (including the one spent)'. Since IT has 0 counter on it, the ICE gets three +1's (the current number plus the counter spent in each of their abilities) for a total of +3.
This does not scale nearly as well on a per click basis and means you have to maintain a power counter reserve on IT department.
I'm not mad or anything about it, but B is a lot less strong and I think its very easy to be confused by the wording (and better templating exists)
Is interpretation B definitely correct? Lukas said on Twitter there was no point in using ITD more than once a turn on a piece of ice.
Though I could have missed something.
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
edited December 2014
the IT department ruling is especially stupid given that it's another card where the official ruling suggests that cards don't have memory of previous game states
Care to elaborate, because I would have always expected that, as a self-referential card, it was a continuous-update. I still thought it was good working that way anyway, so ... I see no problem with it.
As I understand it: Interpretation A (how a lot of people thought it worked because it sounds very similar to the way Datasucker works)
IT department has 3 counters
Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department checks how many counters are currently on it (2) and gives an ICE a bonus of +3 strength.
Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department checks how many counters are currently on it (1) and gives an ICE a bonus of +2 strength. ICE is now at +5 strength
Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department checks how many counters are currently on it (0) and gives an ICE a bonus of +1 strength. ICE is now at +6 strength
This interpretation gives geometric returns and gets amazing value/click once you have 5 or more counters already on.
Interpretation B (What Lukas's ruling seems to indicate)
IT department has 3 counters
Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department gives an ICE an ability '+1 strength until the end of the turn for each power counter on IT department (including the one spent)'. ICE has a bonus of +3 strength.
Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department gives an ICE a second instance of '+1 strength until the end of the turn for each power counter on IT department (including the one spent)'. Since IT has 1 counter on it, the ICE gets two +2's (the current number plus the counter spent in each of their abilities) for a total of +4.
Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department gives an ICE a third instance of '+1 strength until the end of the turn for each power counter on IT department (including the one spent)'. Since IT has 0 counter on it, the ICE gets three +1's (the current number plus the counter spent in each of their abilities) for a total of +3.
This does not scale nearly as well on a per click basis and means you have to maintain a power counter reserve on IT department.
I'm not mad or anything about it, but B is a lot less strong and I think its very easy to be confused by the wording (and better templating exists)
Is interpretation B definitely correct? Lukas said on Twitter there was no point in using ITD more than once a turn on a piece of ice.
Though I could have missed something.
That's true - the twitter question asker definitely got his maths wrong in the question and Lukas may have as well.
There is also: Interpretation C
IT department has 3 counters
Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department gives an ICE an ability '+1 strength until the end of the turn for each power counter on IT department (including the one spent)'. ICE has a bonus of +3 strength.
Corp spends counter to use ability -> The ice already has the IT department ability and can't gain it again. ICE has a bonus of +2 Strength.
We use One Activation of IT Department (henceforth known as 1ID).
Quandary gains X STR, where X is the number of counters on IT Department plus one.
Quandary now has STR X+1 (X=19).
We use 1ID.
Quandary now has STR X+X+1, X=18. Quandary's STR is now 37 (as we have used 1ID twice, so there are 18 counters on IT Department).
We use 1ID.
Quandary now has STR (X)+(X)+(X+1), or 3X+1, or YX+1, where Y is the number of times we have used 1ID.
So, let's say we have a server in which Guard is encountered first, Wall of Static second, and Quandary last. We also have ten counters on ITD.
Runner makes a run on the server.
The runner encounters Guard, STR 2.
The corp uses 2ID. Guard gains yx+1. y=2, x=8. Guard is now STR 19.
The runner uses Creeper to break Guard for 19 credits.
The runner encounters Wall of Static, STR 3.
The corp uses 3ID. Wall of static gains yx+1. y=3, x=5. Wall of Static is now STR 19.
The runner uses Inti to break Wall of Static for 37 credits.
The runner encounters Quandary, STR 0.
The corp uses 3ID. Quandary gains 3*2+1. Quandary is now STR 7.
The runner uses Torch to break Quandary for 4 credits.
It would appear that IT department has three 'good' uses. The first is to disable fixed strength breakers; you can get 3 counters on ITD much more easily than the runner can get three counters on Datasucker. The second is to tax runners on their bad breakers, like Inti and Femme. The last is to simply force the runner to eat a Grim or Komainu.
Interesting card. Really needs to be reworded, though.
As discussed earlier, this is my deck without The Source, the only change I would likely make is to add in 2 Earthrise Hotel for an Inside Job and another card, possibly Special Order or a Rex... I plan on testing the same change with but for two John Masanori as well.
Did I mention this is REALLY fun. Most fun deck I have played in ages!
Again this is pre The Source, so I will be testing 2 Excalibur on place of 2 Pups as a starting point. This has been wrecking house in every game I have played it. At a 25 person tournament it won four games 7-0 and the other 7-4.
It inspired this post here!
[2] IT Deparment
[C]: Place 1 power counter on IT Department.
Hosted power counter: Choose a rezzed piece of ice. That ice gains "This ice gains STR equal to the number of power counters on the IT Department that gave it this ability." until the end of turn.
ICE that have their STR increased by this IT Department gain +1 STR until the end of turn.
Trash Cost: 4
Haas-Bioroid: 1
This quote shows how bad this is: "For an explicit example If I have 10 counters on IT Dept, I can use 1 for +10 Str, then use a 2nd for +9, making 18 after recheck"
Yes game, I certainly would have guessed that 10+9=18.
It is doable, but this is going to cause OCTGN fights and shop arguments. It's only easy when you know the magic trick is there.
@Cerberus What do you think of Markus instead of Eli? I kinda like the potential there for smashing someone's rig a bit with a barrier of all things.
I'm still not sure what I think of Medical Research Fundraiser. Have you considered any other cards in its place? I don't think Celebrity gift would work in that deck, which is the main one I can think of...
@Cerberus What do you think of Markus instead of Eli? I kinda like the potential there for smashing someone's rig a bit with a barrier of all things.
I'm still not sure what I think of Medical Research Fundraiser. Have you considered any other cards in its place? I don't think Celebrity gift would work in that deck, which is the main one I can think of...
The Medical Research Fundraiser has actually been great, it is really important for getting the economy early game to rez the expensive ice. Once you have a significant amount of credits the runners often give up on trashing your asset economy which snowballs quickly. I rarely play it late game unless I am in need of economy. If I could change it for more hedge funds I would, but this is definitely better than Restructure or Giraffe.
While it is a taxing deck, its first play is to catch the runner off guard with a Grail hit, and that often requires credits!
That's very true. I'll see how it feels for me and if it doesn't work so well I'll try something else.
I'm strongly considering just taking both your decks as they are on monday, just to see how they go. I have got my own idea for a Leela deck kicking around though, using Logos for that delicious synergy with her ID ability.
Working on some adjustments to my Kate and Foundry decks, too, now that I've got the new datapacks. Peak Efficiency is going straight in, though in place of what I am not sure yet. I'm also sort of tempted to try Executive Boot Camp in the deck, since it'd let me rez my cheap ice for a bit cheaper during my turn and trigger my Foundry ability even more.
That's very true. I'll see how it feels for me and if it doesn't work so well I'll try something else.
I'm strongly considering just taking both your decks as they are on monday, just to see how they go. I have got my own idea for a Leela deck kicking around though, using Logos for that delicious synergy with her ID ability.
If you try anything other than MRF let me know how you get on, my starting point would likely be MMC as a test.
I'm really interested to hear how you get on, so definitely keep me updated. Be good to get someone else's view on the decks so it has more testing done. Be sure to play them before you go, especially the corp deck, there is a bit of an art to knowing when to play ice, since you generally want to keep a Lancelot in hand to try and hit the runner with a surprise trash from Merlin or Galahad.
Hope for no Noise...
Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
here is how IT department needed to have been worded for it to mean, clearly and unequivocally, what Lukas thinks it means:
"Hosted Power Counter: Choose a rezzed piece of ice. It has +1 strength until end of turn, and +1 strength for each power counter on IT Department until end of turn."
this also makes it clear that if the runner trashes it after it gets used, any ice targeted by it lose all strength boost except for the initial +1 (which is really unclear as worded and, in my opinion, can justifiably be interpreted to mean that the ice loses all strength boost in such a case)
Potentially. I was also considering swapping a Future Perfect for a Hades Fragment, or a single NAPD and an Interns for two Chronos Protocols.
I was also considering the idea of swapping MRF for Shell Corporation, but it probably wouldn't fit the same role (econ over time rather than burst econ) but the idea of stacking one up and forcing the runner to faceplant into some grail ice is pretty tempting.
EDIT: Oh! and Will-O-Wisp is another option. and there's also splashing Architect if I can find the influence.
Anzekay on
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
edited December 2014
Heh, so many ideas ...
I had considered the fragment that makes them spend credits to steal advanced agendas. But the truth is that I think the protection of each agenda is more important than the likely lower chance of scoring one of the fragments. Odds are much better Noise mills your HF and steals it free of charge than you scoring it and using it to fight him at all. I agree with Cerberus that Cerebral Static is a much better card against Noise, although you do then need to find deck space for it.
So, played my first game ever today, against a buddy who also had his first time.
Query about servers - when an agenda/asset is completed, does the ice on that server stay in play and it turns into an empty server? Couldn't find anything while browsing through the rules, so we assumed it does.
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
So, played my first game ever today, against a buddy who also had his first time.
Query about servers - when an agenda/asset is completed, does the ice on that server stay in play and it turns into an empty server? Couldn't find anything while browsing through the rules, so we assumed it does.
yes
remote servers stay around until and unless there are no cards in or protecting them
the central servers exist even if they're empty and have nothing protecting them
Yeah, we guessed as much when we didn't find anything.
Anyway, fun was had. I played Kate vs Haas. Had a really slow start with barely any income while Haas got a money-making machine in action really fast. Got better once I drew Aesop and a few whatsitcalled, the Surge one. But that was too late and he finished his last agenda. Got five agenda points myself though, so I'm not too sad about how I performed.
Will definitely need to play more to get a feel for the different factions in the core set.
+1
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
yeah the runners in the core set are pretty slow, especially compared to weyland and HB
but that's good, having to play at breakneck speeds as soon as I started would have suuuuuucked
Potentially. I was also considering swapping a Future Perfect for a Hades Fragment, or a single NAPD and an Interns for two Chronos Protocols.
I was also considering the idea of swapping MRF for Shell Corporation, but it probably wouldn't fit the same role (econ over time rather than burst econ) but the idea of stacking one up and forcing the runner to faceplant into some grail ice is pretty tempting.
EDIT: Oh! and Will-O-Wisp is another option. and there's also splashing Architect if I can find the influence.
Architect is probably a poor choice for influence in Jinteki, as no one is going to run without a Sentry breaker, in this build you already have a lot of Sentry ice so adding more is bad for ice composition, it likely needs better code gates and barriers more, hence the Lotus Field inclusion.
Feel free to test the other econ options and let me know, as I said I would start with MMC but who knows what is best.
I think the deck is great against Criminal and solid against Shaper, I just don't know about Noise, I am hopeful that the Grail Ice will hurt him more than the standard RP ice mix but I haven't tested enough to know as there are very few good Noise players locally. Will let you know when I have tested more. Consider dropping the Interns for Cerebral Static, but in all honesty they are freaking amazing in the deck and I dont want to give them up.
Pre O&C I think it is a very viable deck though... Will have to see what the meta looks like post it.
So I made the Nasir deck described in this Stimhack article and brought it to the weekly meetup last night. Nasir is super weird but so much fun! Just so different than basically every other runner deck I've played with.
So I made the Nasir deck described in this Stimhack article and brought it to the weekly meetup last night. Nasir is super weird but so much fun! Just so different than basically every other runner deck I've played with.
There's a slight mistake in that article, though, I think. If I'm reading that right, when they're talking about using Stimhack, when your ID resets your credit pool, Stimhack credits go too since they're in your credit pool. You'll have to flunge them into the Personal Workshop before the encounter starts.
Unless they're talking about using it across two separate runs.
PMAvers on
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
So I made the Nasir deck described in this Stimhack article and brought it to the weekly meetup last night. Nasir is super weird but so much fun! Just so different than basically every other runner deck I've played with.
There's a slight mistake in that article, though, I think. If I'm reading that right, when they're talking about using Stimhack, when your ID resets your credit pool, Stimhack credits go too since they're in your credit pool. You'll have to flunge them into the Personal Workshop before the encounter starts.
Unless they're talking about using it across two separate runs.
I think it is referring to two separate runs. Like you run once with a few credits, the corp rezzes the ice which drains them all, then you Stimhack on the next run now that you don't have to worry about losing everything.
I was thinking architect because there's a lot on anarchs here who rely very heavily on parasite and Crypsis, which architect fucks with quite a bit. Mostly just an idea I guess.
I'll give Melange a go during testing, see how it is.
So I made the Nasir deck described in this Stimhack article and brought it to the weekly meetup last night. Nasir is super weird but so much fun! Just so different than basically every other runner deck I've played with.
Yeah, he's a lot of fun. Probably the fastest rig-builder in the game as he gets so much money upfront.
I've been playing him for a while though, and I'm reaching the conclusion that I was doing well partly because of corp unfamiliarity. It's so easy for corps who know what they're doing to make mid-to-late game scoring windows against Nasir that they wouldn't get against any other runner, through clever placement of cheap ice. It means your only late-game plan is R&D lock, which is not nearly as reliable as it once was. He's really easy to scorch, too, and I'm not sure if his upside makes up for those downsides.
here is how IT department needed to have been worded for it to mean, clearly and unequivocally, what Lukas thinks it means:
"Hosted Power Counter: Choose a rezzed piece of ice. It has +1 strength until end of turn, and +1 strength for each power counter on IT Department until end of turn."
this also makes it clear that if the runner trashes it after it gets used, any ice targeted by it lose all strength boost except for the initial +1 (which is really unclear as worded and, in my opinion, can justifiably be interpreted to mean that the ice loses all strength boost in such a case)
That actually makes it stronger, making it give yx+y strength instead of yx+1. The easiest way to remake it would be to change it from power counters to IT counters.
[C]: Add a power counter to ITD.
Hosted Power Counter: Place an IT counter on a rezzed piece of ICE.
Ice with IT counters gain STR equal to the number of power counters on ITD for each IT counter on it.
Ice with IT counters on them gain +1 STR.
Following more testing with Stronger Together, I've found that it's bollocks. I'm at the point where, if it were +2STR, it would be worth it sometimes. Core HB is just straight up better, unless we get some really sick bioroids. I believe in Lukas' ability to print cards to make ST a reasonable identity to use instead of ETF, but it's basically worthless.
I've been screwing around with a Chaos Theory Sage deck, that uses Dinosaurus, e3 Feedback Implants, and D4VID. If you get the right starting hand, it's pretty good against NEH, as a STR 3 Sage will break everything except Eli, Guard, Caduceus, and Lotus Field (and two of those you don't need breakers for). Once you get D4V1D, Sagosaurus, and Creeper out, you've got a pretty nice rig. The only problem is that it's simply too slow for what you get, compared to the standard MOpus+Breakers or Atman decks.
The deck is okay. I give it a 5 or even 6/10. Without MOpus, the money just isn't there. I don't think there's much to improve on at the moment, except maybe by running Leprechaun+Deep Red with MOpus.
I've also been fucking around with core Weyland Grail, which is pretty enjoyable. The problem with Grail is that you want two in hand, and at least one rezzed on your remote, HQ, and R&D, but a single piece of Grail isn't very taxing. Big barriers like Hadrian and Curtain Wall (which you can reliably rez with operation economy) really seem to help delay the runner in getting cheap accesses while you double Grail servers. Caduceus and Ice Wall are really nice early ice, and Power Shutdown keeps your Grail relevant.
Grail is also really nice for defending The Root; taxing enough to open a scoring window, but not too taxing to set up. I feel like Blue Sun is a better choice for a Root deck, though, as I'm often just dripping in credits. Makes me wish I had a second copy of Troubleshooter for the triple Merlin kill or for getting off Lancelots.
Punitives are just kinda... there. Planning on trading them out for The Twins once O&C comes out. I wonder if Self Destruct would work? Land a double Merlin and win the trace for 7 net damage. Wisp would also work rather well.
here is how IT department needed to have been worded for it to mean, clearly and unequivocally, what Lukas thinks it means:
"Hosted Power Counter: Choose a rezzed piece of ice. It has +1 strength until end of turn, and +1 strength for each power counter on IT Department until end of turn."
this also makes it clear that if the runner trashes it after it gets used, any ice targeted by it lose all strength boost except for the initial +1 (which is really unclear as worded and, in my opinion, can justifiably be interpreted to mean that the ice loses all strength boost in such a case)
That actually makes it stronger, making it give yx+y strength instead of yx+1. The easiest way to remake it would be to change it from power counters to IT counters.
[C]: Add a power counter to ITD.
Hosted Power Counter: Place an IT counter on a rezzed piece of ICE.
Ice with IT counters gain STR equal to the number of power counters on ITD for each IT counter on it.
Ice with IT counters on them gain +1 STR.
And then make it unique.
But then the strength boost would be permanent if it doesn't have any way of wiping IT counters.
Maybe add in a "At the start of your turn, remove all IT counters from your ICE." clause?
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
here is how IT department needed to have been worded for it to mean, clearly and unequivocally, what Lukas thinks it means:
"Hosted Power Counter: Choose a rezzed piece of ice. It has +1 strength until end of turn, and +1 strength for each power counter on IT Department until end of turn."
this also makes it clear that if the runner trashes it after it gets used, any ice targeted by it lose all strength boost except for the initial +1 (which is really unclear as worded and, in my opinion, can justifiably be interpreted to mean that the ice loses all strength boost in such a case)
That actually makes it stronger, making it give yx+y strength instead of yx+1. The easiest way to remake it would be to change it from power counters to IT counters.
[C]: Add a power counter to ITD.
Hosted Power Counter: Place an IT counter on a rezzed piece of ICE.
Ice with IT counters gain STR equal to the number of power counters on ITD for each IT counter on it.
Ice with IT counters on them gain +1 STR.
And then make it unique.
But then the strength boost would be permanent if it doesn't have any way of wiping IT counters.
Maybe add in a "At the start of your turn, remove all IT counters from your ICE." clause?
Woops. I think "At the end of turn, remove all IT counters from play" would be more similar to the original.
@cerberus ( or anyone else) up for a few OCTGN games on Sunday?
I'm GMT+8 but I should be able to do any time on Sunday for us or eu time zones
I should be able to do Sunday morning I think. Though its been ages since I used OCTGN, so likely to be rusty with it.
Drop me a pm and we can discuss.
Following more testing with Stronger Together, I've found that it's bollocks. I'm at the point where, if it were +2STR, it would be worth it sometimes. Core HB is just straight up better, unless we get some really sick bioroids. I believe in Lukas' ability to print cards to make ST a reasonable identity to use instead of ETF, but it's basically worthless.
ST needs cards that key off bioroid strength rather than just good bioroids (which would be better in ETF). Something like:
Choir Protocol - Upgrade (rez 2 trash 2)
[Click] Rez a bioroid, reducing the rez cost by the strength of bioroid ICE protecting this server.
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IanatorGaze upon my works, ye mightyand facepalm.Registered Userregular
I have recently discovered this game and realized it is something I need in my life. I think I'll try out this OCTGN thing with you guys on Sunday.
Twitch | Blizzard: Ianator#1479 | 3DS: Ianator - 1779 2336 5317 | FFXIV: Iana Ateliere (NA Sarg) Backlog Challenge List
OCTGN is not for the faint of heart. If you're not hugely familiar with the game yet I'd strongly suggest firing up OCTGN yourself sometime to check it out and see how it works.
It is... A bit cumbersome, especially to begin with.
Anyway, Cerberus and I will be doing some and fun moontime hours, but if any US folks want a game or two I'll possibly (dunno yet) be around during sunday evening (which is monday morning my time). Add me on steam and we'll see if we can sort something out. http://steamcommunity.com/id/Anzekay/
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I dunno, that sort of rate of return just feels a little out of place in Netrunner, so I really did wonder if something slipped through.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Is interpretation B definitely correct? Lukas said on Twitter there was no point in using ITD more than once a turn on a piece of ice.
Though I could have missed something.
except, everything about Crisium Grid
That's true - the twitter question asker definitely got his maths wrong in the question and Lukas may have as well.
There is also:
Interpretation C
IT department has 3 counters
Corp spends counter to use ability -> IT department gives an ICE an ability '+1 strength until the end of the turn for each power counter on IT department (including the one spent)'. ICE has a bonus of +3 strength.
Corp spends counter to use ability -> The ice already has the IT department ability and can't gain it again. ICE has a bonus of +2 Strength.
So let's look at Quandry.
->End the run
STR: 0
We have 20 counters on IT Department.
So, let's say we have a server in which Guard is encountered first, Wall of Static second, and Quandary last. We also have ten counters on ITD.
It would appear that IT department has three 'good' uses. The first is to disable fixed strength breakers; you can get 3 counters on ITD much more easily than the runner can get three counters on Datasucker. The second is to tax runners on their bad breakers, like Inti and Femme. The last is to simply force the runner to eat a Grim or Komainu.
Interesting card. Really needs to be reworded, though.
Leela - The Superman Punch
Leela Patel: Trained Pragmatist (All That Remains)
Event (22)
3x Account Siphon (Core Set)
3x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)
2x Emergency Shutdown (Cyber Exodus)
3x Inside Job (Core Set)
3x Legwork (Honor and Profit)
2x Lucky Find (Double Time) ••••
3x Special Order (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
Hardware (8)
3x Desperado (Core Set)
2x Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead)
3x R&D Interface (Future Proof) ••••• •
Resource (4)
2x Kati Jones (Humanity's Shadow)
2x Security Testing (Honor and Profit)
Icebreaker (12)
3x Cerberus "Rex" H2 (All That Remains)
2x Corroder (Core Set) ••••
3x Faerie (Future Proof)
1x Femme Fatale (Core Set)
1x Garrote (True Colors)
1x Mimic (Core Set) •
1x Passport (Honor and Profit)
15 influence spent (max 15)
46 cards (min 45)
Cards up to All That Remains
Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
As discussed earlier, this is my deck without The Source, the only change I would likely make is to add in 2 Earthrise Hotel for an Inside Job and another card, possibly Special Order or a Rex... I plan on testing the same change with but for two John Masanori as well.
Did I mention this is REALLY fun. Most fun deck I have played in ages!
Replicating Perfection - The Crusade
Jinteki: Replicating Perfection (Trace Amount)
Agenda (9)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Nisei MK II (Core Set)
3x The Future Perfect (Honor and Profit)
Asset (9)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••
3x Mental Health Clinic (Honor and Profit)
3x Sundew (Mala Tempora)
Upgrade (4)
1x Ash 2X3ZB9CY (What Lies Ahead) ••
3x Caprice Nisei (Double Time)
Operation (8)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
2x Interns (Mala Tempora)
3x Medical Research Fundraiser (Honor and Profit)
Barrier (4)
1x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) •
3x Galahad (Upstalk) •••
Code Gate (5)
1x Lotus Field (Upstalk)
3x Merlin (All That Remains) •••
1x Quandary (Double Time)
Sentry (10)
2x Komainu (Honor and Profit)
3x Lancelot (First Contact) •••
3x Pup (Honor and Profit)
2x Tsurugi (True Colors)
15 influence spent (max 15)
21 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to All That Remains
Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
Again this is pre The Source, so I will be testing 2 Excalibur on place of 2 Pups as a starting point. This has been wrecking house in every game I have played it. At a 25 person tournament it won four games 7-0 and the other 7-4.
It inspired this post here!
[C]: Place 1 power counter on IT Department.
Hosted power counter: Choose a rezzed piece of ice. That ice gains "This ice gains STR equal to the number of power counters on the IT Department that gave it this ability." until the end of turn.
ICE that have their STR increased by this IT Department gain +1 STR until the end of turn.
Trash Cost: 4
Haas-Bioroid: 1
On second thought, maybe keep the old wording.
Yes game, I certainly would have guessed that 10+9=18.
It is doable, but this is going to cause OCTGN fights and shop arguments. It's only easy when you know the magic trick is there.
I'm still not sure what I think of Medical Research Fundraiser. Have you considered any other cards in its place? I don't think Celebrity gift would work in that deck, which is the main one I can think of...
Jesus even that is unweildly. What an awful rule to put into words.
Maybe... Use this ability once per turn per ice? Still sort of awkward, though.
The Medical Research Fundraiser has actually been great, it is really important for getting the economy early game to rez the expensive ice. Once you have a significant amount of credits the runners often give up on trashing your asset economy which snowballs quickly. I rarely play it late game unless I am in need of economy. If I could change it for more hedge funds I would, but this is definitely better than Restructure or Giraffe.
While it is a taxing deck, its first play is to catch the runner off guard with a Grail hit, and that often requires credits!
I'm strongly considering just taking both your decks as they are on monday, just to see how they go. I have got my own idea for a Leela deck kicking around though, using Logos for that delicious synergy with her ID ability.
Working on some adjustments to my Kate and Foundry decks, too, now that I've got the new datapacks. Peak Efficiency is going straight in, though in place of what I am not sure yet. I'm also sort of tempted to try Executive Boot Camp in the deck, since it'd let me rez my cheap ice for a bit cheaper during my turn and trigger my Foundry ability even more.
If you try anything other than MRF let me know how you get on, my starting point would likely be MMC as a test.
I'm really interested to hear how you get on, so definitely keep me updated. Be good to get someone else's view on the decks so it has more testing done. Be sure to play them before you go, especially the corp deck, there is a bit of an art to knowing when to play ice, since you generally want to keep a Lancelot in hand to try and hit the runner with a surprise trash from Merlin or Galahad.
Hope for no Noise...
If I did make any changes it'd likely be something to fuck with noise a bit.
"Hosted Power Counter: Choose a rezzed piece of ice. It has +1 strength until end of turn, and +1 strength for each power counter on IT Department until end of turn."
this also makes it clear that if the runner trashes it after it gets used, any ice targeted by it lose all strength boost except for the initial +1 (which is really unclear as worded and, in my opinion, can justifiably be interpreted to mean that the ice loses all strength boost in such a case)
I was also considering the idea of swapping MRF for Shell Corporation, but it probably wouldn't fit the same role (econ over time rather than burst econ) but the idea of stacking one up and forcing the runner to faceplant into some grail ice is pretty tempting.
EDIT: Oh! and Will-O-Wisp is another option. and there's also splashing Architect if I can find the influence.
I had considered the fragment that makes them spend credits to steal advanced agendas. But the truth is that I think the protection of each agenda is more important than the likely lower chance of scoring one of the fragments. Odds are much better Noise mills your HF and steals it free of charge than you scoring it and using it to fight him at all. I agree with Cerberus that Cerebral Static is a much better card against Noise, although you do then need to find deck space for it.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Query about servers - when an agenda/asset is completed, does the ice on that server stay in play and it turns into an empty server? Couldn't find anything while browsing through the rules, so we assumed it does.
yes
remote servers stay around until and unless there are no cards in or protecting them
the central servers exist even if they're empty and have nothing protecting them
Anyway, fun was had. I played Kate vs Haas. Had a really slow start with barely any income while Haas got a money-making machine in action really fast. Got better once I drew Aesop and a few whatsitcalled, the Surge one. But that was too late and he finished his last agenda. Got five agenda points myself though, so I'm not too sad about how I performed.
Will definitely need to play more to get a feel for the different factions in the core set.
but that's good, having to play at breakneck speeds as soon as I started would have suuuuuucked
Architect is probably a poor choice for influence in Jinteki, as no one is going to run without a Sentry breaker, in this build you already have a lot of Sentry ice so adding more is bad for ice composition, it likely needs better code gates and barriers more, hence the Lotus Field inclusion.
Feel free to test the other econ options and let me know, as I said I would start with MMC but who knows what is best.
I think the deck is great against Criminal and solid against Shaper, I just don't know about Noise, I am hopeful that the Grail Ice will hurt him more than the standard RP ice mix but I haven't tested enough to know as there are very few good Noise players locally. Will let you know when I have tested more. Consider dropping the Interns for Cerebral Static, but in all honesty they are freaking amazing in the deck and I dont want to give them up.
Pre O&C I think it is a very viable deck though... Will have to see what the meta looks like post it.
There's a slight mistake in that article, though, I think. If I'm reading that right, when they're talking about using Stimhack, when your ID resets your credit pool, Stimhack credits go too since they're in your credit pool. You'll have to flunge them into the Personal Workshop before the encounter starts.
Unless they're talking about using it across two separate runs.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
I think it is referring to two separate runs. Like you run once with a few credits, the corp rezzes the ice which drains them all, then you Stimhack on the next run now that you don't have to worry about losing everything.
I'll give Melange a go during testing, see how it is.
Yeah, he's a lot of fun. Probably the fastest rig-builder in the game as he gets so much money upfront.
I've been playing him for a while though, and I'm reaching the conclusion that I was doing well partly because of corp unfamiliarity. It's so easy for corps who know what they're doing to make mid-to-late game scoring windows against Nasir that they wouldn't get against any other runner, through clever placement of cheap ice. It means your only late-game plan is R&D lock, which is not nearly as reliable as it once was. He's really easy to scorch, too, and I'm not sure if his upside makes up for those downsides.
That actually makes it stronger, making it give yx+y strength instead of yx+1. The easiest way to remake it would be to change it from power counters to IT counters.
[C]: Add a power counter to ITD.
Hosted Power Counter: Place an IT counter on a rezzed piece of ICE.
Ice with IT counters gain STR equal to the number of power counters on ITD for each IT counter on it.
Ice with IT counters on them gain +1 STR.
And then make it unique.
I've been screwing around with a Chaos Theory Sage deck, that uses Dinosaurus, e3 Feedback Implants, and D4VID. If you get the right starting hand, it's pretty good against NEH, as a STR 3 Sage will break everything except Eli, Guard, Caduceus, and Lotus Field (and two of those you don't need breakers for). Once you get D4V1D, Sagosaurus, and Creeper out, you've got a pretty nice rig. The only problem is that it's simply too slow for what you get, compared to the standard MOpus+Breakers or Atman decks.
Chaos Theory: Wünderkind (Cyber Exodus)
Event (16)
3x Diesel (Core Set)
1x Escher (Creation and Control)
2x Indexing (Future Proof)
3x Inject (Up and Over) ••••• •
3x Scavenge (Creation and Control)
1x Stimhack (Core Set) •
3x Test Run (Cyber Exodus)
Hardware (7)
3x Dinosaurus (Cyber Exodus)
2x e3 Feedback Implants (Trace Amount) ••••
2x R&D Interface (Future Proof)
Resource (9)
3x Armitage Codebusting (Core Set)
3x Daily Casts (Creation and Control)
3x Kati Jones (Humanity's Shadow)
Icebreaker (4)
1x Creeper (Humanity's Shadow)
3x Sage (The Source)
Program (4)
1x D4v1d (The Spaces Between) ••••
3x Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control)
15 influence spent (max 15)
40 cards (min 40)
The deck is okay. I give it a 5 or even 6/10. Without MOpus, the money just isn't there. I don't think there's much to improve on at the moment, except maybe by running Leprechaun+Deep Red with MOpus.
I've also been fucking around with core Weyland Grail, which is pretty enjoyable. The problem with Grail is that you want two in hand, and at least one rezzed on your remote, HQ, and R&D, but a single piece of Grail isn't very taxing. Big barriers like Hadrian and Curtain Wall (which you can reliably rez with operation economy) really seem to help delay the runner in getting cheap accesses while you double Grail servers. Caduceus and Ice Wall are really nice early ice, and Power Shutdown keeps your Grail relevant.
Grail is also really nice for defending The Root; taxing enough to open a scoring window, but not too taxing to set up. I feel like Blue Sun is a better choice for a Root deck, though, as I'm often just dripping in credits. Makes me wish I had a second copy of Troubleshooter for the triple Merlin kill or for getting off Lancelots.
Weyland Consortium: Building a Better World (Core Set)
Agenda (10)
2x Government Contracts (A Study in Static)
3x Hostile Takeover (Core Set)
2x Priority Requisition (Core Set)
3x Project Atlas (What Lies Ahead)
Asset (3)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••
Upgrade (1)
1x Corporate Troubleshooter (Core Set) •
Operation (15)
3x Beanstalk Royalties (Core Set)
2x Green Level Clearance (A Study in Static) ••
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Power Shutdown (Mala Tempora)
2x Punitive Counterstrike (True Colors)
2x Restructure (Second Thoughts)
Barrier (9)
1x Curtain Wall (True Colors)
3x Galahad (Upstalk) •••
2x Hadrian's Wall (Core Set)
3x Ice Wall (Core Set)
Code Gate (3)
3x Merlin (All That Remains) •••
Sentry (8)
2x Archer (Core Set)
3x Caduceus (What Lies Ahead)
3x Lancelot (First Contact) •••
15 influence spent (max 15)
21 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Punitives are just kinda... there. Planning on trading them out for The Twins once O&C comes out. I wonder if Self Destruct would work? Land a double Merlin and win the trace for 7 net damage. Wisp would also work rather well.
But then the strength boost would be permanent if it doesn't have any way of wiping IT counters.
Maybe add in a "At the start of your turn, remove all IT counters from your ICE." clause?
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Woops. I think "At the end of turn, remove all IT counters from play" would be more similar to the original.
I'm GMT+8 but I should be able to do any time on Sunday for us or eu time zones
I should be able to do Sunday morning I think. Though its been ages since I used OCTGN, so likely to be rusty with it.
Drop me a pm and we can discuss.
ST needs cards that key off bioroid strength rather than just good bioroids (which would be better in ETF). Something like:
Choir Protocol - Upgrade (rez 2 trash 2)
[Click] Rez a bioroid, reducing the rez cost by the strength of bioroid ICE protecting this server.
Twitch | Blizzard: Ianator#1479 | 3DS: Ianator - 1779 2336 5317 | FFXIV: Iana Ateliere (NA Sarg)
Backlog Challenge List
It is... A bit cumbersome, especially to begin with.
Anyway, Cerberus and I will be doing some and fun moontime hours, but if any US folks want a game or two I'll possibly (dunno yet) be around during sunday evening (which is monday morning my time). Add me on steam and we'll see if we can sort something out. http://steamcommunity.com/id/Anzekay/