As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options
Frank's Thread [NSFW]
F87
So Say We AllRegistered User regular
So Say We AllRegistered User regular
Hey guys! Time for a new thread to post my progress on new pieces!
I've been spending time working on a spreadsheet of potential clients and I really want to give freelance illustration my best effort. I think it's entirely possible for me to make a living on my art if I can build a strong portfolio and client network, but I really need help getting some strong illustrations finished.
Feedback greatly appreciated!
WIP stages:
Current WIP:
At this stage, I've laid everything out design wise and did the first render pass, except for her face. It's still pretty early on, but I was hoping to get some general idea of what you guys thought?
Thanks for any help!
I've been spending time working on a spreadsheet of potential clients and I really want to give freelance illustration my best effort. I think it's entirely possible for me to make a living on my art if I can build a strong portfolio and client network, but I really need help getting some strong illustrations finished.
Feedback greatly appreciated!
WIP stages:
Thumbnails:
Sketch / Values:
Simple 3D mock-up:
Sketch / Values:
Simple 3D mock-up:
Current WIP:
At this stage, I've laid everything out design wise and did the first render pass, except for her face. It's still pretty early on, but I was hoping to get some general idea of what you guys thought?
Thanks for any help!
Iruka on
0
Posts
The monk I'm not sure is adding to anything much, composition-wise. It's just kind of ... there, and i find the flag distracting me from the main figure, which should be my focal point.
Big lake bg
Canyon classic w/ fog
I'm about to start on the colors and rendering everything out.
I still need to go in and really polish this. Also, I'm going to work on the hands soon!
New WIP:
I think I'm going to step back on this one and do some more thumbnails first.
What you've done here is let your brain go on autopilot. You've got three elements in the composition, and two of them are pretty much the same size. And also, there's nothing in the foreground.
Two rules of making compositions interesting, that I usually consult when something seems uninteresting, is to occupy both back, middle, and foreground for maximum depth, and the rule of three (small, medium, large. Basically: elements should vary in size.)
I think you should try playing around with the placement of the elements in there, the size of them, and see if you can add something in the foreground. Play around, see how interesting you can make the composition. Make variations, see what effect the different things are going to have on the pieces.
Also, I'd probably add some more light or a secondary light source to the thing he's investigating, it's reading pretty weirdly right now.
Forget about the facts of physics and that there's no light source up there. You're an artist, you get to cheat! Check out this cheeky fucker
As for the earlier piece I think you could benefit from trying to do some more solid construction on the characters. Really get in there and get dirty in perspective lines and boxes around heads and shit. One thing that immediately jumps out is how the ellipse around her stomach, her belt I guess, is facing the wrong way. If the horizon line is below her belt we should be looking up at it, not down.
What do you guys think?
Right now the city's light looks kind of randomly placed, try screwing around with the placement of that to highlight certain things
edit:
and another little thing. This isn't so important right now but it's still noticeable. Another thing we do when on autopilot is to parallel our lines. The foreground element plus the spaceship thing in no 1 are both angled parallel to the circle that is the planet. And in no 3 the same thing almost happens as well. Even though we're in space stuff is floating very neat and orderly in relation to the planet. It's actually just now that I realize that the space between the planet and the rightmost space debris stuff isn't part of the space debris, because the lines are so parallel.
Some thoughts on this:
What's the narrative, and what are you doing to tell it?
The man looks frightened, but the heroine is not particularly threatening and the dramatic tension isn't really there. She looks half an eyebrow cock from being on a poster for a DreamWorks film. Her face doesn't clue us in much and her body language is 'heroic generica'.
A sadistic grin, a hateful glare, solemn duty-- there are a million ways you could go. The sword arm itself can gesture powerfully as well. Does it point with accusation? Is it raised in anticipation? Leaned on for support?
It's easy to see how you've found yourself in this situation. Looking at all your thumbnails and WIP shots it's clear that the second figure was sort of shoehorned in there at a late stage in order to gin up a more interesting composition, but It's a bit half-assed at the moment.
Some random quickies from the last couple days:
Early progress on the space walk piece:
What do you guys think of this one?
Did a quick and dirty thing:
The thing about snow and ice is that it is incredibly refractive and as such the denser it gets the more saturated it gets as well, since the light is just bouncing from ice to ice to ice. By making the glacier crack more saturated, not only does it becomes more interesting (to me at least) to look at, but it also uses the saturation as a compositional element in that it both generates depth (foreground more saturated than background) as well as providing further framing of the focal point (the figure is now walking on an unsaturated bridge that is surrounded by a saturated ravine).
Also, any feedback on this one before I render it to death?
edit: is it too dark? Is the composition to "heavy handed"?
"Remnant"
This one needs a bit more polish:
"Cold Snap"
Can anyone guess who they are?
Agreeing with Iruka's encouragement to branch out, face-wise
facebook.com/LauraCatherwoodArt
I asked this in the questions thread, but I figure here is fine too:
I'm still having trouble getting any freelance work! Do you guys think I should work on a different subject matter or change my style? Any general tips for getting commissions?
Also I tried out the new fzd school video technique and made up some thumbnails:
House of Cards?
I Kinda think of freelance and commissions as two different categories, freelance being professional work and commissions being small pieces that are generally for personal gifts. These are two different markets and both are sorta volatile when it comes to regular work. For freelance you are probably going to have to really go out and look for it. For small jobs like card illustrations and similar gigs, people post listings and you'll just have to continue to chase the dragon.
Personal commissions will likely come to you through word of mouth. If you want to make a market in that, work on your internet presence and build up a network of interested parties.
But don't do studies later dude, do them now.
When I look at your work, I see a person aiming for basically the most elusive job there is, which is like that job where you do all the polished promotional material for a game/show/whatever and not concept art. I know that job exists, at some huge companies where that is needed, but for the most part that job is going to go to the person with the highest rendering skills, with the most polish.
You want to be a concept artist, right? Well then do some face studies. Because if I was your boss and I said "I want 20 different looking female faces so we can settle on the look for character X" I need you to be able to do that. The reason why these:
were so good is because they show an understanding of the process. Do you know how few positions there are out there to do finished sci-fi illustrations? Maybe for book covers, maybe for card games? What job do you actually imagine yourself doing?
I realize that that may sound a little hostile, but what I'm trying to say is you spend a lot of time being coaxed into doing one really good, pointed study before you immediately start doing stuff that is completely the opposite. You are still hitting those low laying technical issues, like drawing the same face over and over where I see it and I'm like "Man, heres a dude who is not willing to sit down and draw a bunch of faces" Or "man here's a dude who is not willing to take the time to sit down and work on figures"
You need to tackle way smaller problems.
Take for example your ice environment illustration: https://us.v-cdn.net/5018289/uploads/editor/90/0mggyxx0bkxq.jpg
What do those ice cliffs look like, like, really look like? Could you do a material call out and actually render out what a portion of that wall may be? Could you render that same scene in a different lighting situation so that the 3d artists could use that as color reference? Look at these Leyendecker studies: http://artanecdotally.tumblr.com/post/105673714177/art-and-things-of-beauty-studies-by-joseph before he jumped into a full painting, look at the multiplicity of studies he did on a singular batch of folds, looking to understand it. Look at this Last of us concept work: http://gnrradio.tumblr.com/post/96161043745/the-last-of-us-early-infected-concept-art-by so few of these are finished by any stretch, they are looking for something, they are studying, because that is a huge part of the job you are tying to do.
Working on stuff like face studies and technical studies will build your portfolio, It is going to give you the skills you need to actually do the work you want. Don't skate around the tasks and try and make cool illustrations, do the work that will actually enable you to make cool illustrations. I'm not saying you'll never do a finished illustration again, you will, but you need to work on some of your basic rendering skills and you need to do that in smaller chunks.
I haven't been critiquing any of your stuff lately, Frank, because I feel like everything you needed to hear had already been said. Mainly, that you should be doing studies - but you wanted to do your own thing and not do studies. There's nothing wrong with that, inherently, but it's detrimental to the progress and success you have over and over again mentioned you want so badly. Rather than focusing on making Youtube tutorials, streaming videos, getting commissions, trying to find the easiest art job you could get, working freelance, getting an industry job, suddenly changing your style, etc.....just simply focus on improving yourself artistically. Decide that you're not going to pursue ANY professional art for the next year or so. I'm serious. If you can really convince yourself not to do that for a year, I think you'll feel much less stressed about how to "get commissions" or "which job should I pick" or "I'm trying to rush to the finish line with this piece, what can I improve!?"...because you will be allowing yourself to just focus on YOU.
People cannot change their style at whim - it takes years, generally...and it's not for some short-term purpose like getting more commissions. It's usually a more permanent style transition, i.e. "this is the kind of work I want to do now, instead". I don't think your style is the problem here, at all. The problem is - frankly - you need to develop more varied work, reach a higher skill level, and break out of your comfort zone. What you are producing right now does not look like professional work, and it all looks very, very similar. I also apologize for sounding harsh, but it is soooo frustrating on my end because I can TELL you have it in you to get there! You just refuse to take the more difficult path of Studying, and continue to get lost in the weeds of finding the Shortest Possible Route To Success, which doesn't exist. I completely understand that nagging pressure of "I have to get better RIGHT NOW! I have to market myself RIGHT NOW!" but the most effective way to do that is to make yourself marketable through study, skill improvement, realizing your faults, accepting them, and working towards improving them.
You've generally been really receptive to direct critiques - which is really, really great. The problem is that the core of that critique seems to go out of the window by the time you sit down and make your next piece. If you can, try to gather up all the critiques you can remember getting for your work. Dig up your old threads and check out what was said there. I will guarantee you that you will find a wealth of information that is still completely applicable to where you are right now. Doing studies, and trying to really absorb the core suggestions in those critiques would be a great place for you to start.
If developing a sheet of concepts is not attractive to you, then being a concept artist will likely not be all that fulfilling. You might prefer to be an illustrator. Or a matte painter. Or a character designer...etc. No matter what you want to do, though, you need to accept the fact that to get there, you need to improve...your technical ability, and your creative ability. To improve, you can't recycle the same information that's in your head over and over again...you need to get new information in there, and the way you do that is through study.
Does that change anything about your feedback @Iruka @NightDragon ? I know I need to do more studies...
The only difference now is that you're going to need to really up your self-marketing game, in addition to everything we said above. You could be a star self-promoter, but not get any work. The two must work together. Word of mouth is also very powerful, but again, only really works when your art is at a marketable level.
It's not super-easy, but it's not impossible. Having an in-house/studio job might be easier theoretically, since the pressure to constantly market yourself and deal with income fluctuations isn't as much of a factor. That would be my answer to almost anything art-related, though. "How viable is it?" is a little hard to determine, since any career choice - artistic or not - is potentially viable, if you're good enough and if you work hard enough.
At this stage - before you've really set your nose to the grindstone - it's too hard to tell. The future is what you make of it.
So go make it.
I'll ask you this, who do you imagine needs the illustrations you are doing? If you are going for basically, highly polished environments and character illustrations meant for cards and book covers, You need to keep two things in mind:
1) That is a market where the amount of artists in the space out weigh the need for that kind of work (Its insanely competitive)
2) You are putting yourself up against people who are incredibly technically proficient, Because polish is what those artists are selling.
there is only one way to get more technically sound, and that is to do studies. You are going to have to keep working on your technical skills while you put yourself out there and finish illustrations, you cant do one or the other.
You are stepping up to bat in a market that is really tough. You need to go from "Knowing you need to do more studies" to living and breathing doing those studies, because you are basically selling your art as a product, then, and not the process of being creative (which is a concept artists job). Its like you are trying to become a baker, but you only know one type of bread, you make that loaf okay, but you want to open up a bakery. People don't go to bakeries for one bread, and if they do, they better make the best fucking version of that bread on the damn planet.
Noah Bradely is a smart guy but he found a market of clients that basically barely need another Noah Bradley (magic cards), you cant follow in his footsteps directly, so you need to tackle some shit first. Like, If I want to hire you for my kickstarter card project and I need you to draw... I donno, 5 girls who all look different? If I look at your portfolio and think "Man, heres a dude who is not willing to sit down and draw a bunch of faces" Or "man here's a dude who is not willing to take the time to sit down and work on figures", It doesn't really change how I feel about hiring you.
Changing the goal post doesn't change what you have to do. If you dont enjoy working on your skills you are not going to improve fast enough to get work. Get goddamn excited about doing studies like drawing 20 faces is going to suck your dick, alright? Like really fucking get on it and actually do it like Scott Robinson is going to throw you a party with motherfucking michelangelo. Its not going to kill you, You just need to stop fucking around and get in there about it. You want to work? Then this isn't a hobby, you need to do your job, which means you cant just bake your favorite loaf of bread, alright? Studying is your job now. Wake up, and do it 9-5, draw for fun on the weekend. If you did this for just a few months do you know how epicly better you'd be, dude?
What would you say to someone who wants to become a professional athlete but refuses to go to the gym or control their diet? Maybe you suggest that they should eat more vegetables and they point out that there's tomatoes in the sauce on the pizza they're eating. You tell them that squats are a really good exercise and they make a frowny face.
That's a really harsh analogy, and you aren't quite that obstinate, but it's impossible to not get the sense that you have been squirming and wiggling your way out of putting any kind of serious labor into study for a long time. You've been advised to buckle down on study many times, as ND and Iruka have pointed out in their excellent posts, and each time you come back with a pretty small offering and then are immediately back in the weeds a short time later. I don't know the specifics of why you seem to have such a hard time sticking with it, but I'm sure we can all relate that study can be painful, or frustrating, or just boring. In the end, the simple reality is that you need to swallow it and find a way to make it tolerable, if not ultimately something you find enjoyable and stimulating.
I'm not saying this to be discouraging, but simply to make it crystal clear that there's no way you're going to get to your destination without some real perspiration and dedication to improvement. As per ND's suggestion, a year of making improvement your main focus would be completely transformative for your art. It's time for squats and spinach.
If you don't know what to literally do in order to study, I'm sure you will get an earful if you ask.
Wow... you guys are awesome. It's definitely hard to read in some ways but on the other hand, I know it's all great advice and a year of hard study would probably get me where I need to be. To be completely honest, I live with my mom. She pays for everything. I'm pretty embarrassed about it but at least I can sit here and paint/game/smoke all day (which might be hindering me in some way?). I feel really bad not having any income whatsoever, that's why I keep trying to quickly move on to the next piece in hopes on fleshing out my portfolio and landing some work.
I do feel really stagnant and I remember during that summer art camp the studies felt really good. I'm not sure how to try and sell my art while also studying unless I go without sleep or something. I do see how it would be a lot easier to produce quality work of a marketable level if I studied more however.
And when it comes to doing studies on my own, I guess I would like to get an earful on the best way to spend my time. My best guess at this point would be to redo Noah Bradley's art camp I took. Re-watch the videos and do the assignments again. But if I decide to commit time to just studying, there will be very little done on my personal art and honestly I'm not happy with where my portfolio is. This is all so frustrating...
I really appreciate the honesty and thanks for the help guys...
This is an absolute bullshit statement. I know because I spent like all of 2010 working on a fake game and then instead I sat down and did those two texture exercises ((These ones) Not only did they inform my rendering process for the next year or so based on the critiques I got, they also continue to garner me attention, a few years after the fact.
Technical work is impressive, because non artists think its a magic trick, and artists understand that doing it will inform your decisions when trying to draw from your head. Literally every piece you make without studying first is just going to telegraph that you haven't studied and you don't want to make the time for it. Your portfolio can have studies in it. You can do face studies and paint spaceships behind them, if you want to. Like look at eyecagers thread, do you think all that studying is for nothing, or do you imagine that its probably why she has a job?
If you live with mom and are at home all day, you really have zero excuse, I'm telling you that if you want to get out there and make a career for yourself, you absolutely have to do this, gaining these technical skills is your job, and you cannot move forward without them. Stop making excuses.
Where do I start? Face studies? I'm going to try to only do studies from now on, all day every day. I want to get really good!! Art is the only thing I got and I really do love to paint/draw, I don't know why I haven't been studying more. And eyecagers thread is INSANE. I wish I could be on that level.