You know what would be a good Batman Beyond comeback?
Batman is getting up there in years but can still hold his own in a fight. Still, he won't be able to do this much longer. It's really too bad. Oh but there's this kid, Terry, full of youth and energy, maybe he can take it up. Batman will still suit up and show him the ropes, though.
Too bad Terry never knew the original Batman and didn't grow up with the man, who died years ago. Because this old Batman is Dick Grayson.
Actually, last I checked, they're currently having Dick be Terry's guide in the Batman Beyond digital comic. I don't know for sure if it's still going or not but it seemed to happen after a time-skip with Terry going to college and having some sort of fallout with Bruce.
By the way, anyone keeping tabs on that Future's End mini? I'm curious to know how Terry's doing in that.
There's a rumor that....
Terry is going to die, and Tim (who's given up being a hero) is going to take up the suit.
I think there's just a large disparity between what some people feel about the extremis trial (or more specifically, body modification). I don't think the authors see it as anything more than a dickhead move where Tony offered something and then took it away.
Also, it's definitely not the traditional concept of body horror since your choices were either A. Anything you want (which ideally would be something you like), or b. What you had before you started (which, even if you hate, is kind of the opposite of body horror as far as I know.)
Being offered the ability to 'fix' yourself and then having that taken away is not the traditional idea of body horror but its no less awful
It's pretty terrible, but I'm pretty sure it was intended as more of an act of not giving a damn rather than an act of outright maliciousness. I think the authors just miscalculated how some people feel about this kind of thing, so rather than being a shitty corporate-style that the authors intended (the kind with unforeseen consequences and is really poor to the end-user), it comes off as something excessively evil in the eye of some people.
That level of greed and capitalistic fuckery is Evil.
It is, but if your takeaway is "tony is 100% evil right now" that's pretty reductive of what that book is trying to do. Why does it have to be one or the other? I mean I realize it's comic books so moral absolutism is often the name of the game but it's okay to have characters who do both good and bad things.
I think there's just a large disparity between what some people feel about the extremis trial (or more specifically, body modification). I don't think the authors see it as anything more than a dickhead move where Tony offered something and then took it away.
Also, it's definitely not the traditional concept of body horror since your choices were either A. Anything you want (which ideally would be something you like), or b. What you had before you started (which, even if you hate, is kind of the opposite of body horror as far as I know.)
Being offered the ability to 'fix' yourself and then having that taken away is not the traditional idea of body horror but its no less awful
It's pretty terrible, but I'm pretty sure it was intended as more of an act of not giving a damn rather than an act of outright maliciousness. I think the authors just miscalculated how some people feel about this kind of thing, so rather than being a shitty corporate-style that the authors intended (the kind with unforeseen consequences and is really poor to the end-user), it comes off as something excessively evil in the eye of some people.
That level of greed and capitalistic fuckery is Evil.
It is, but if your takeaway is "tony is 100% evil right now" that's pretty reductive of what that book is trying to do. Why does it have to be one or the other? I mean I realize it's comic books so moral absolutism is often the name of the game but it's okay to have characters who do both good and bad things.
I'm not saying that he is 100% evil
what I'm saying is that I cannot root for him or treat him as a hero because of what he has done
that line is probably different for different people, but whatever the book is 'trying to do', its lost me because I can't root for the character.
I'd say the difference is that the level to which a person does something morally questionable and for me to still be invested in the character is that they need to be doing it for interesting reasons.
Walter White is a desperate person who realizes that they have been a bad person their entire life, and his descent into that internal hell is compelling.
Tony had a magic switch flipped and now he's a greedy bastard/worst version of himself, for no other reason than well now he just is. That's just kind of boring. Now he's a mostly bad guy who has made his technology analogous to a drug dealer. Unless there's more of a reveal later it just seems like the most boring angle on him being "inverted"
I'd be way more interested if there was some sort of compelling arc to his actions or some desperate need to do this stuff.
Well the book isn't asking you to treat him as a hero either?
Like obviously not everyone is going to be into it and no one is saying they have to be, the whole amazing thing about Marvel's line right now is just how many different kind of things they offer. It's a lineup of books deliberately designed to target multiple audiences as opposed to one of the biggest problems with the New 52 which is that despite having 52 different titles, every single one of them was designed to be targeted at the exact same traditional "core" comic book reader.
But that's all beside my point which is that trying to label this current Tony as either a hero or a villain is kind of useless and that sort of absolutism bugs the hell out of me to begin with.
I'd say the difference is that the level to which a person does something morally questionable and for me to still be invested in the character is that they need to be doing it for interesting reasons.
Walter White is a desperate person who realizes that they have been a bad person their entire life, and his descent into that internal hell is compelling.
Tony had a magic switch flipped and now he's a greedy bastard/worst version of himself, for no other reason than well now he just is. That's just kind of boring. Now he's a mostly bad guy who has made his technology analogous to a drug dealer. Unless there's more of a reveal later it just seems like the most boring angle on him being "inverted"
I'd be way more interested if there was some sort of compelling arc to his actions or some desperate need to do this stuff.
Well we are only a couple issues in at this point.
To be clear, I'm not doing some kind of hard sell on Superior Iron Man, I think it has potential but it's by no means a book I love or even a book im sure I'll keep reading.
To no one's surprise I'm sure the absolute best take on new Tony has been Hickman's in New Avengers.
Well the book isn't asking you to treat him as a hero either?
Like obviously not everyone is going to be into it and no one is saying they have to be, the whole amazing thing about Marvel's line right now is just how many different kind of things they offer. It's a lineup of books deliberately designed to target multiple audiences as opposed to one of the biggest problems with the New 52 which is that despite having 52 different titles, every single one of them was designed to be targeted at the exact same traditional "core" comic book reader.
But that's all beside my point which is that trying to label this current Tony as either a hero or a villain is kind of useless and that sort of absolutism bugs the hell out of me to begin with.
I don't think 'hero' or 'villain' are absolute terms at all
they're incredibly, incredibly subjective
to me, tony is a villain
you dont have to agree at all!
But that doesn't mean I can't use that label for him when it works for me
He finally got his revenge, and along with Black Bolt, backstabed and 'killed' Namor.
The same Namor who is the sole reason that the 616 universe is even still existing at this point.
The same Namor that flooded Wakanda and killed thousands, lied to Thanos and led to the death of EVEN MORE Wakandans and bragged about it to T'Challa's face.
Fuck Namor. Going HEY CABAL WHY DONT WE GO MURDER WORLDS doesn't absolve him of his sins. Even if he realized he was doing some monstrous shit.
T'Challa's a fucker too, but reducing all of Namor's actions in Hickman's run to "is the sole reason 616 is still around" is some revisionist history shit.
So the first issue of Convergence will feature Brainiac taking the survivors of destroyed Multiverse Earth's and making them battle each other for supremacy.
Normally I just write off Marvel/DC similarities because of course they will happen but Secret Wars has been in the works for years and Convergence has been, by all accounts, a pretty rushed event to cover the DC move to California and is being written by a dude who has never written comics before in his life
So
Yo that is straight up the plot to Secret Wars minus Battleworld (maybe)
T'Challa's a fucker too, but reducing all of Namor's actions in Hickman's run to "is the sole reason 616 is still around" is some revisionist history shit.
They've both been betraying each other and backstabing each other for a long time now. Neither is in the right.
And yes, Namor is twice the reason why 616 still exists while Black Panther (and pals) doomed the Earth, and the universe it stands in, to death because he couldn't cross the moral event horizon like Namor could. Namar was able to choose the 'sacrifice few to save many' choice where Black Panther was incapable of doing that and chose the 'sacrifice everyone and let the universe die' choice.
T'Challa's a fucker too, but reducing all of Namor's actions in Hickman's run to "is the sole reason 616 is still around" is some revisionist history shit.
They've both been betraying each other and backstabing each other for a long time now. Neither is in the right.
And yes, Namor is twice the reason why 616 still exists while Black Panther (and pals) doomed the Earth, and the universe it stands in, to death because he couldn't cross the moral event horizon like Namor could.
You're not wrong, but you're also making it sound like he did a noble, heroic thing. Which he absolutely did not. He murdered an innocent world, arguably out of necessity, and then rounded up a team of the worst mass murderers in all of reality and set them loose on more of them, as well as basically wiping out Wakanda and claiming it as their own.
Namor admits he is a monster and realized how far he had fallen around when he asked DOCTOR FUCKING DOOM to bail his ass out and Doom basically said "Reap what you sow, fucker."
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
I'd say the difference is that the level to which a person does something morally questionable and for me to still be invested in the character is that they need to be doing it for interesting reasons.
Walter White is a desperate person who realizes that they have been a bad person their entire life, and his descent into that internal hell is compelling.
Tony had a magic switch flipped and now he's a greedy bastard/worst version of himself, for no other reason than well now he just is. That's just kind of boring. Now he's a mostly bad guy who has made his technology analogous to a drug dealer. Unless there's more of a reveal later it just seems like the most boring angle on him being "inverted"
I'd be way more interested if there was some sort of compelling arc to his actions or some desperate need to do this stuff.
Man, I wish more superhero comic book characters had the level of characterization as Walter White.
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
T'Challa's a fucker too, but reducing all of Namor's actions in Hickman's run to "is the sole reason 616 is still around" is some revisionist history shit.
They've both been betraying each other and backstabing each other for a long time now. Neither is in the right.
And yes, Namor is twice the reason why 616 still exists while Black Panther (and pals) doomed the Earth, and the universe it stands in, to death because he couldn't cross the moral event horizon like Namor could. Namar was able to choose the 'sacrifice few to save many' choice where Black Panther was incapable of doing that and chose the 'sacrifice everyone and let the universe die' choice.
By the way, just reading this brief summary they both have ethically-sound positions in their choices.
T'Challa is a noble hero for just straight up murdering Namor, or that Namor didn't save the 616 reality.
All I am saying is that you are really glossing over the super heinous shit that Namor did that was for no reason other than to be a malicious asshole to T'Challa.
I'm probably one of Namor's biggest defender's here.
But what Namor did on Great Society Earth wasn't right. He saved both universes, sure, but that dosen't ascend him to sainthood and make him better then the Illuminati. Namor's point was that they were all horrible people who made horrible choices, and to draw some magical line in the sand after what they've done already was bullshit, so he did it for them.
That dosen't absolve Namor, and it dosen't absolve the Illuminati for NOT doing it. Namor just didn't want his sacrifices to go in vain.
Now Black Panther/Namor pissing contest was another thing all together. You have to remember that the reason why the whole thing started was because, even though Namor was under the influence of the Phoenix force, he stood buy and owned his actions and didn't exactly grovel to Panther for forgiveness. So T'challa took to extracting it from Namor's hide.
They are both bad men who are doing bad things to each other(T'challa trying to justify/reclaim some of his moral dignity by killing Namor/possibly trying to get back in with the Wakandan gods, remember they left him after he wouldn't do the thing on the Great Society planet), and honestly it's just kinda tragic honestly(also the best thing to come out of AvX)
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
I think part of Langly's point, and one I sort of agree with, is that this inversion isn't necessarily exploring any interesting facets of this already existing character.
Tony is doing his techno drug dealer thing because now he's greedy because magic.
That isn't to say interesting stories can't come from that, but the starting line is kind of disappointing and flat.
Talk to me about Ultimate Namor. Call it intellectual curiosity.
Same thing as 616 Namor, only it appears he was a tyrant so his people imprisoned him, so he wound up surviving the fall of Atlantis and the extinction of his people. I forget if he was a legitimate king or just an usurper.
I think part of Langly's point, and one I sort of agree with, is that this inversion isn't necessarily exploring any interesting facets of this already existing character.
Tony is doing his techno drug dealer thing because now he's greedy because magic.
That isn't to say interesting stories can't come from that, but the starting line is kind of disappointing and flat.
It is a matter of your mileage may vary
We've had very responsible, even if he makes mistakes, sober, heroic Tony for almost 30 years now, barring the Civil War debacle.
Having a Tony with all of the accumulated knowledge and technology and none of the learned responsibility and restraint is absolutely fascinating to me, from a character point of view
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
Tony was also just threatening to build a new army of sentinels and wipe out all mutants.
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I love that in that arc it has corrupted a black hole.
This was literally the first thing I thought/asked after the trailer was finished.
There's a rumor that....
It is, but if your takeaway is "tony is 100% evil right now" that's pretty reductive of what that book is trying to do. Why does it have to be one or the other? I mean I realize it's comic books so moral absolutism is often the name of the game but it's okay to have characters who do both good and bad things.
I'm not saying that he is 100% evil
what I'm saying is that I cannot root for him or treat him as a hero because of what he has done
that line is probably different for different people, but whatever the book is 'trying to do', its lost me because I can't root for the character.
Fuck You.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
Walter White is a desperate person who realizes that they have been a bad person their entire life, and his descent into that internal hell is compelling.
Tony had a magic switch flipped and now he's a greedy bastard/worst version of himself, for no other reason than well now he just is. That's just kind of boring. Now he's a mostly bad guy who has made his technology analogous to a drug dealer. Unless there's more of a reveal later it just seems like the most boring angle on him being "inverted"
I'd be way more interested if there was some sort of compelling arc to his actions or some desperate need to do this stuff.
Like obviously not everyone is going to be into it and no one is saying they have to be, the whole amazing thing about Marvel's line right now is just how many different kind of things they offer. It's a lineup of books deliberately designed to target multiple audiences as opposed to one of the biggest problems with the New 52 which is that despite having 52 different titles, every single one of them was designed to be targeted at the exact same traditional "core" comic book reader.
But that's all beside my point which is that trying to label this current Tony as either a hero or a villain is kind of useless and that sort of absolutism bugs the hell out of me to begin with.
Well we are only a couple issues in at this point.
To be clear, I'm not doing some kind of hard sell on Superior Iron Man, I think it has potential but it's by no means a book I love or even a book im sure I'll keep reading.
To no one's surprise I'm sure the absolute best take on new Tony has been Hickman's in New Avengers.
What happened?
I don't think 'hero' or 'villain' are absolute terms at all
they're incredibly, incredibly subjective
to me, tony is a villain
you dont have to agree at all!
But that doesn't mean I can't use that label for him when it works for me
Current Avengers/New Avengers Spoilers:
The same Namor who is the sole reason that the 616 universe is even still existing at this point.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
Fuck Namor. Going HEY CABAL WHY DONT WE GO MURDER WORLDS doesn't absolve him of his sins. Even if he realized he was doing some monstrous shit.
Normally I just write off Marvel/DC similarities because of course they will happen but Secret Wars has been in the works for years and Convergence has been, by all accounts, a pretty rushed event to cover the DC move to California and is being written by a dude who has never written comics before in his life
So
Yo that is straight up the plot to Secret Wars minus Battleworld (maybe)
And yes, Namor is twice the reason why 616 still exists while Black Panther (and pals) doomed the Earth, and the universe it stands in, to death because he couldn't cross the moral event horizon like Namor could. Namar was able to choose the 'sacrifice few to save many' choice where Black Panther was incapable of doing that and chose the 'sacrifice everyone and let the universe die' choice.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
Namor admits he is a monster and realized how far he had fallen around when he asked DOCTOR FUCKING DOOM to bail his ass out and Doom basically said "Reap what you sow, fucker."
Man, I wish more superhero comic book characters had the level of characterization as Walter White.
By the way, just reading this brief summary they both have ethically-sound positions in their choices.
All I am saying is that you are really glossing over the super heinous shit that Namor did that was for no reason other than to be a malicious asshole to T'Challa.
But what Namor did on Great Society Earth wasn't right. He saved both universes, sure, but that dosen't ascend him to sainthood and make him better then the Illuminati. Namor's point was that they were all horrible people who made horrible choices, and to draw some magical line in the sand after what they've done already was bullshit, so he did it for them.
That dosen't absolve Namor, and it dosen't absolve the Illuminati for NOT doing it. Namor just didn't want his sacrifices to go in vain.
Now Black Panther/Namor pissing contest was another thing all together. You have to remember that the reason why the whole thing started was because, even though Namor was under the influence of the Phoenix force, he stood buy and owned his actions and didn't exactly grovel to Panther for forgiveness. So T'challa took to extracting it from Namor's hide.
They are both bad men who are doing bad things to each other(T'challa trying to justify/reclaim some of his moral dignity by killing Namor/possibly trying to get back in with the Wakandan gods, remember they left him after he wouldn't do the thing on the Great Society planet), and honestly it's just kinda tragic honestly(also the best thing to come out of AvX)
Black Panther's a shit for killing Namor.
And Namor's a shit for...well, being Namor.
Neither of them are good people at this point.
Sousa is totally going to be a bad guy, right?
He's just too nice
Kitana's outfit is actually a bit better
Still not good
But slightly better
Kitana's outfit is much better but still not great yeah
closer to a xena-ish thing than just full on exploitation
I saw cassie use johnny's shadow powers
I saw air hat juggling
Tony is doing his techno drug dealer thing because now he's greedy because magic.
That isn't to say interesting stories can't come from that, but the starting line is kind of disappointing and flat.
Most DC digital series are weekly
We've had very responsible, even if he makes mistakes, sober, heroic Tony for almost 30 years now, barring the Civil War debacle.
Having a Tony with all of the accumulated knowledge and technology and none of the learned responsibility and restraint is absolutely fascinating to me, from a character point of view
But give the proper context