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[Crowfall] Game of Thrones meets EVE Online. Early Access available now.
NerfThatMan
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Registered User regular
Crowfall is a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game (MMORPG, for anyone born in a cave). By that, we mean that the game is played online in a persistent shared environment with thousands (and thousands, and thousands…) of other players.
We think Crowfall is a very different flavor of MMO – internally, we call it a Throne War Simulator. That’s because we’ve designed it to be a very different game experience. It has elements in common with strategy games, political simulators, survival games… and a few elements that don’t really exist anywhere else.
About the Creators:
J Todd Coleman brings a wealth of creative and entrepreneurial experience to ArtCraft. He founded Reliant Data Systems (acquired by Compuware Corporation in 1999), Wolfpack Studios, Inc. (acquired by Ubi Soft in 2004) and was the VP of production and creative director for KingsIsle Entertainment, Inc. As the co-creator and creative lead ofShadowbane, Wizard101 and Pirate101, Coleman has built a reputation for pushing the boundaries of MMO design. His games have received numerous awards (including Game of the Year, Audience Choice and Family Game of the Decade) and he was personally recognized by Gamasutra as one of the top 50 developers in the industry and by Massive Gamer magazine as the #1 Most Influential Game Developer in the World.
Gordon Walton has been building games and managing game development for more than 35 years, with the last 20 years managing massively multiplayer online games. He has been VP of online at Origin Systems, managing Ultima Online, VP and executive producer at Maxis, managing the Sims Online and VP and executive producer at Sony Online Entertainment on Star Wars: Galaxies. Walton then went on to become the Co-studio GM at BioWare Austin, on Star Wars: The Old Republic and was most recently the VP and executive producer at Disney Playdom. Walton has personally developed more than 35 games and overseen the development of more than 200 games.
Gordon Walton has been building games and managing game development for more than 35 years, with the last 20 years managing massively multiplayer online games. He has been VP of online at Origin Systems, managing Ultima Online, VP and executive producer at Maxis, managing the Sims Online and VP and executive producer at Sony Online Entertainment on Star Wars: Galaxies. Walton then went on to become the Co-studio GM at BioWare Austin, on Star Wars: The Old Republic and was most recently the VP and executive producer at Disney Playdom. Walton has personally developed more than 35 games and overseen the development of more than 200 games.
About the Character System:
All players have a single account-level crow that represents the sum total of all their learning. This crow can possess the bodies (known as Vessels) of the various “Archetype” classes –a race/class combo the player wants to play. (Knights, Confessors, Champions, etc)
When a crow possesses a body for the first time, they can customize it, very much like character creation from any online game. The player starts the vessel creation process with a set number of creation points. Each archetype has a point cost. That cost varies depending on the base attributes and skills of that archetype. For example, Centaurs have a higher starting Strength, so they are more expensive. This means they have less (fewer) points left over to spend on advantages and disadvantages.
Advantages and disadvantages are elements that further customize that vessel. They represent specific talents, traits or backstory elements that change that particular vessel in unique ways.
For example: “Eagle Eye” might grant that vessel an increase to accuracy with ranged weapons. “Dim-witted” might lower its Intellect, but grant points that could be spent to further increase its Strength.
Advantages cost points, disadvantages give additional points to spend. There is a limit to the number of advantages and disadvantages a vessel can start with.
When a crow possesses a body for the first time, they can customize it, very much like character creation from any online game. The player starts the vessel creation process with a set number of creation points. Each archetype has a point cost. That cost varies depending on the base attributes and skills of that archetype. For example, Centaurs have a higher starting Strength, so they are more expensive. This means they have less (fewer) points left over to spend on advantages and disadvantages.
Advantages and disadvantages are elements that further customize that vessel. They represent specific talents, traits or backstory elements that change that particular vessel in unique ways.
For example: “Eagle Eye” might grant that vessel an increase to accuracy with ranged weapons. “Dim-witted” might lower its Intellect, but grant points that could be spent to further increase its Strength.
Advantages cost points, disadvantages give additional points to spend. There is a limit to the number of advantages and disadvantages a vessel can start with.
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NerfThatMan on
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Just hoping for something different I guess.
There is a massively unsubstantiated rumor that it will be buy-to-play with a cash shop a la Guild Wars 2. The only evidence for this being a dev team member (accidentally?) voting publicly on a forum poll for that model.
Taking lots of inspiration from Star Wars Galaxies, apparently, which I never really played so I can't speak to.
Yeah, sounds like it - a good example would be how recipes worked. They all called for broad resource types (like "Non-ferrous metal"), and which resource you used mattered. That said, it sounds like why they matter is different, since in Galaxies mainly all that mattered was how big the numbers were (each resource having a few different stats, and with the resources constantly being replaced with new random ones... well, some people made a fortune off mining and hoarding good ones when they spawned). Here it sounds more like different resources give different bonuses (DA:I is the first example to come to mind actually).
I also have to agree with their breakdown of why crafting ends up relegated in that. I think the only game where it's actually necessary for the best gear right now (or at least the only one to come to mind) is GW2, and the crafting system in that isn't all that great. Also, a completely mind-numbing slog that involves massive piles of worthless. I can't think of any where crafted is on par with raid drops either.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Interesting. I'm all for a system that allows crafters to be "known" for their work, I think that's a good thing for player-driven economies. What it will have to entail by necessity is some sort of gear degradation or item loss, though, to keep the market moving. Also wonder if their different server set-up will help or hinder that.
The art style looks cool, but I am rather suspicious.
Looks more like a quick gen MOBA almost? Or arena combat?
It is something I've missed in MMOs.
What makes you say that? Just curious if I'm missing something. Nothing interests me less than a MOBA.
The limited character pool selection with extremely simple stat management.
There are stats called "Hunger" and "Warmth". Plus what appears to be a very tabletop inspired trait system.
Not to mention their stated focus on a robust crafting system and player driven economy.
And keep in mind that the principal people behind this are (mostly) from MMOs known for their open ended gameplay.
I don't think there is much worry here that this is a MOBA.
Now whether it will actually be released who can say? I am doubtful.
Crowfall is a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game (MMORPG, for anyone born in a cave). By that, we mean that the game is played online in a persistent shared environment with thousands (and thousands, and thousands…) of other players.
We think Crowfall is a very different flavor of MMO – internally, we call it a Throne War Simulator. That’s because we’ve designed it to be a very different game experience. It has elements in common with strategy games, political simulators, survival games… and a few elements that don’t really exist anywhere else.
Throne War Simulator? You mean like Game of Thrones?
Game of who? Song of what? Uhh, no, never heard of it. Any similarities to any existing fantasy novels and/or television shows is purely coincidental.
(p.s. RT+LS totally = JS)
What platform is Crowfall for?
Crowfall is initially a game for Windows PCs. As for other platforms:
We are considering Mac support, because yes, Macs are cool, too… but we aren’t ready to promise anything yet.
Console is not completely out of the realm of possibility, but it is not a priority.
Table and mobile are not currently in the plan. If we decide to support those devices, we’re more likely to do companion apps, rather than the full game. It’s like putting a shark in a swimming pool – you might get him in there, but he isn’t going to like it.
Will there be a single player game mode?
Nope. The game can only be played as an MMO.
Does that mean I can’t play solo?
Of course you can play solo! That said, many of the game systems were designed to entice you to interact with others. It is an MMO, after all.
What is the camera and keyboard interface?
3d person (over the shoulder) and WASD keys. In this particular area, we are similar to traditional MMOs.
How does character creation work?
You start the Character Creation with a set number of creation points. You pick an “Archetype” class –basically a race/class combo – from an initial set of options. Each Archetype has a point cost. That cost varies depending on the base attributes and skills of that Archetype. For example, Centaurs have a higher starting Strength, so they are more expensive. This means they have less points left over to spend…
“Advantages” and “Disadvantages”, which are elements that further customize your character. They represent specific talents, traits or backstory elements that change your character in unique ways. For example: “Eagle Eye” might give you an increase to accuracy with ranged weapons. “Dim-witted” might lower your Intellect, but give you points that you can send to further increase your Strength.
Advantages cost you point, disadvantages give you additional points to spend. There is a limit to the number of Advantages and Disadvantages you can start with. Advantages and Disadvantages can only be purchased during character creation.
Are archetypes customizable?
Yes. Once in the game, you must raise your skills to qualify for a Promotion class. This allows you to differentiate yourself (pretty dramatically) from your base Archetype.
Additionally, there are also Disciplines which can be learned to gain access to addition skills, weapon styles and powers. For example, the “Archery” Discipline can be used to unlock the use of Bows. The “Bounty Hunter” Discipline gives you additional skills and power that are helpful when hunting other players.
Are the archetypes gender locked? Can I only play a male Knight, or a female Dryad?
Some of the archetypes are locked to a particular gender, but most of them are not. As a general rule, humanoid characters can be played in either gender, and non-humanoids (i.e. the “monster races”) are locked to a single gender.
Can the character appearances be customized?
Yes. We will offer the ability to customize your character (hair styles, color and faces) in Character Creation. Further customization can be done in-game, by collecting equipment.
How does character advancement work?
Crowfall uses a skills-based system to resolve in-game actions. Characters do not have discrete “levels” like most traditional MMOs. This means that there are MANY, MANY potential ways to advance your character at any given time.
There are two ways that a character can increase her or her skills: passive training (in a method similar to “Eve Online”) and active training (i.e. doing things in game)
Also a Khal Drogo the Centaur looking motherfucker is their first "archetype" revealed.
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Still don't think it'll see a release, but I wouldn't mind if it did.
I've got a weird feeling in my gut that at the end of this countdown in a few weeks it's gonna be 'Now come kickstart this great idea we drip fed you!'
Hope I'm just an overly cynical codger though.
As with a lot of Econ related things EVE has done the best job, but it still winds up not being all that much fun
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Then you buy more gear and continue the cycle.
It also helps that crafting is pretty fun too.
This is probably the best option - it makes gear consumable and adds an incentive to do so... of course in theory you could eventually have such perfect gear you never need any more for a single class.
Good fucking luck with that.
Also of course, playerbase growth/churn provides a certain level of constant demand while a game is healthy.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
I'm sure that's probably a "filthy casual" opinion though.
If they do that, they'll have a lot of competition. There's already an oversaturation of kickstarter games which people are still waiting for.
So far this is another great idea on paper that I would like to try but am not even remotely prepared to lay down money for right now.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't EVE Online had pretty decent success with a semi-loot system? Could be totally incorrect seeing as I haven't played it though.
It is just that a lot of really awesome stories and crazy hijinks comes out of EVE.
Mortal Online is a super "hardcore", really niche, full PvP, full loot, open world MMO that is a sub game that I'd consider "successful". They don't have a huge player base, but they hold solid numbers and they didn't spend $Texas to make the game. Unlike say Wildstar, a game that wanted to cater to the "hardcore" raiding base, who spent AAA money making the game only to discover that their intended market is really fucking small.
If the Crowfall guys go more the Mortal Online route and make a niche, but solid game without going crazy on the budget then they could do alright for themselves.
If they go in trying to chase numbers that more casual MMOs have then they will be in for a world of hurt.
Edit- though I do have to say that if they come out and say, "Yo Kickstart this!" Then the game is probably dead before it even had a chance.
and still winds up being (imo) the least fun part of the experience
the niche market of players who are interested in 'risk management as gameplay' is pretty small, especially compared to how vocal they seem to be. Plus I think 'open world pvp looting massive risk etc' sounds a lot more fun than it actually is if you've never tried that kind of environment before
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Yeah, people don't like losing stuff in general - xp, gear, etc. Money they usually don't mind so much, and it can be a great gold sink overall (travel costs and such after dying).
If you want to get rid of gear, reward people for smashing it.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Next, Combat FAQ. Once again, copy-paste'd from the forum post.
No. We’ve tried to make combat in Crowfall a little more action-combat focused, than your traditional MMO. For instance, we have “dashes” that you use to avoid attacks, as opposed to a passive (randomized) dodge system. Finding the right balance on this one has been extremely challenging from a design perspective, but we think we’ve found a mid-point. Hopefully you’ll agree.
2. How does targeting work?
Generally, melee attacks happen in the area in front of the character. There is no hard “target”. Attacks use various shapes such as: cones, rectangles, and spheres. You can optionally turn on or off a projected ground texture, if you want to visualize where your character is attacking.
3. What is the simulation model? Can players “walk through” other players? How are projectiles simulated?
We use a physics model for character movement and combat simulation. This means that players and projectiles move realistically in the 3D environment, with momentum and inertia. This implies a number of interesting side effects that you probably aren’t used to (like players being unable to move through each other, projectiles hitting accidental targets, etc.) There are some implications that we aren’t quite ready to talk about yet. We’ll go into more detail about the ramifications of this system later.
4. Does the game use the “trinity system” of class balance (tank, DPS, and healer)?
No. Some elements, yes, of course. But overall, not really.
We have characters that are more offensive. We have characters that are more defensive. We have characters with support powers. But we made the game purposefully light on in-combat healing, to make it more deadly.
And remember, we’ve opened up the character customization options (through Promotion classes and Disciplines) to make each character a “mixed bag” of skills and powers. Each archetype starts with pre-disposition towards a certain playstyle, but after that, the game system really opens up and allows you to adapt your character any way you like.
5. Why de-emphasize combat healing?
Combat healing effectively adds a multiplier to each combatant’s effective hit points. A defender isn’t just managing one health bar, his “effective” health pool is = his personal health bar * powers driven by the mana pool of every healer actively supporting him. This makes a lot of sense for games that focus around PvE combat where the monsters have thousands of hit points – especially raids. It makes less sense in a game focused on skill-based player-versus-player combat.
6. But the game will still have instanced based PvE raids, right?
No, actually. Crowfall is a game is about territorial conquest and a player-driven economy – not PvE raids.
7. Do you have boss monsters?
Sort of. Not exactly.
We have creatures that are incredibly deadly, but they don’t hang out at the end of a dungeon waiting for you to come kill them. They also don’t drop rare magic items when defeated – because that would undercut the player-driven economy.
Instead, they sometimes drop rare reagents, which a master crafter can use as additives to craft high-end equipment.
8. How can you allow for so much character customization, and still claim that every character is balanced?
We don’t claim that! The idea that “all characters should be equally balanced in all situations” is not one of our design goals. We’re giving you the control to be able to customize your character. The natural result is that some character builds will inevitably be better than others.
Instead, our goal is to create a deep, complex simulation – filled with tactical and environmental considerations and emergent gameplay. Our design goal is that no single character is better than others in every situation.
This approach means that mastery of the game relies on skill: knowing how to build your character in a way that suits your playstyle, and then seeking out situations in the game that will be to your advantage. It also means that adventuring parties will be less cookie cutter, as the roles are not as clearly defined.
Next, some screens from the forum post detailing their "worlds" system. Looks like different rulesets for factions and loot per world. We have two examples so far.
1. What kinds of resources are in the world?
There are two primary types of resources in Crowfall. Those used for personal crafting and those used in conquest. Internally we call them resources and materials. The base unit is actually the same (stone, iron, wood) but there is a conversion process where you can “stack” resources to turn them into materials. This is because it is more efficient (in terms of inventory space) to transport materials en masse – and you might want to carry more. It depends on how you intend to use those materials.
Note that each of these types is a general category. There are a number of different types of stone, just as there are many types of metal and many types of wood. As discussed in our Crafting overview last week, most recipes call for a general category/type of component rather than a specific type (i.e. crafting a bow requires the use of “wood”, not “yew” in particular. The type of wood that is used has an effect on the attributes on the resulting “bow” item.)
2. Where do the resources come from?
Resources can be harvested from the environment, and sometimes found on certain monsters. Materials come from particular types of POIs (Points of Interest) called resource factories: Quarries, Lumber Mills, and Mines.
3. What is a Point of Interest?
Our Worlds contain many structures that have strategic and/or economic value. We call these structures “Points of Interest.” There are other types of POIs, as well: Strongholds, Temples, Graveyards – these serve different purposes, but all of them fall under the “POI” designation. Some of these POIs are for personal use; others are more strategic and really exist to facilitate (and, in some cases, fuel) the game of territorial conquest.
4. Are there differences between Resource Factories of the same type?
Yes! First, the proximity and location to other Points of Interest makes a huge difference (obviously). Second, we’ve also put balance knobs in place to increase (or decrease) the quality, quantity and type of material that each Factory produces. One mine could produce high quality iron, while another produces low quality copper -- but at a much higher rate.
Quarries located in a remote area will typically produce much more materials (and at a greater frequency.) This was designed so that, as the risk of transporting those materials goes up, so does the potential reward.
5. How are resources and materials used?
Resources are the base ingredients for crafting items. Materials are the base ingredients for building and repairing structures. If you stack enough resources to turn them into materials, you can use them for your structures. If you need to break the stack, however, some resources will be lost in the conversion.
For this reason, it’s best to convert resources into materials only when you intend to either use them for your structures, or when you have enough of a surplus that you don’t mind losing some in the “break down” process.
I want to play a deer-man.
Steam: pandas_gota_gun
No idea. They've licensed an engine rather than building one. They've had a 'full team' (like 20 people iirc) since summer 2014. The beta is not coming at the end of their countdown. They have assigned some beta groups. That's about all we know.
Welcome to Hunger Week!
Until now, we’ve been describing the game in general terms. The real differences between Crowfall and other MMORPGs have been “creeping around the edges” of our weekly updates.
Today is the turning point – where we start to separate away from the herd. Unfortunately (but inevitably) that means we’re going to turn some people off today. But hopefully those of you who stick around will be here for the long haul.
About a decade ago, I was the creative director on a game called “Shadowbane.” Shadowbane had a lot of flaws, but the vision is still something that I am very proud of. The Wolfpack founders (of which I am one) came up with something innovative – really innovative. It’s surprising how rare that is, even in the game space.
Unfortunately, the vision was also flawed. SB had tons of technical and operational issues, yes, but that’s not what I am talking about. I’m talking about the crack in the foundation of the design:
At its heart, SB was a strategy game. And strategy games can’t last forever.
To illustrate this point, let me use an analogy. Every Thanksgiving, my family gets together for a game of RISK. Only it’s not “let’s play Risk every thanksgiving” – it’s “let’s pick up from where we left last year, in the SAME game of Risk.”
The same game. The same conflict. Year after year after year:
Imagine that, in year 2, Uncle Bob starts winning.
In year 3, Uncle Bob presses the advantage. By the end of this game session, Bob basically owns the board.
Fast forward 10 years. We’re still playing that same game. Uncle Bob is now an unassailable tyrant.
The other players (i.e. everyone other than Uncle Bob) all wander away from the board to watch football or something – because they know they don’t stand a chance. If a new player joins the game, Bob snuffs them out in their infancy, and they quit immediately.
Everyone is bored. Even Uncle Bob is bored – because he hasn’t faced a challenge in over a decade. But he won’t give up by choice. That isn’t human nature.
In Shadowbane, I called this phenomenon server stagnation. The game is incredibly fun – right up until someone wins. Then, without a server reset, the game stagnates and everyone quits.
TL;DR version:
One of the key elements of strategy games is they have a win condition followed by a board reset. You start the game, you play the game, someone wins. You reset the board and start a new game.
One of the key elements of MMOs is that they are persistent. Actually, that’s not the right word, is it? They’re permanent. Players expect to play them over years, and the game world is (generally) static.
These two design goals seem diametrically opposed: the game must reset and the game must last forever.
Can they be married together? I think they can.
Eternal Heroes, Dying Worlds
What if characters are persistent/permanent – but the Worlds are not?
What if your character exists outside of any given Campaign, and can join new matches once a match is over?
This opens up a whole new world of design possibilities.
Characters are permanent, and advance over the course of many Campaigns. This gives you the feeling of persistence that we’ve come to expect from MMOs.
Campaigns, though, aren’t permanent. They still be “persistent” between game sessions – but they don’t last forever.
How long should the last? As long as the game is still fun! And they don’t all have to be the same duration. Some Campaigns could last 1 week, or 1 month. or 6 months. or 1 year.
These Campaigns aren’t just “instances”, though -- they are fully populated, continent-sized, seamless zone MMO servers. The only thing they have in common with an “instance” is that they are time-limited.
Because each Campaign is marching towards an end condition, this means that the World doesn’t have to be static anymore. We can break the Campaign into different “phases”, and adjust the rules of the game change during each phase. We can allow the players to fundamentally change the world, without fear of the long term problems this might create.
Why not make each Campaign unique? Why can’t each one have a completely unique world map (mountains, forests, lakes, castles, villages, quarries, mines, mills – you name it)? The “exploration” phase of the game can be different in each Campaign. The world will never be stale.
To that point: since each game is a stand-alone event, we can even change the rules (and win conditions) of each Campaign. We can experiment with different rules, to see which ones are more popular – and keep the game continually fresh.
So, how do you explain this?
The Hunger. The Hunger is a mysterious, destructive force that spreads from one world to the next, like an infection – twisting and corrupting everything it touches. Eventually, the Hunger consumes the World itself, and it is destroyed.
Players take the roles of Divine Champions, immortal participants in the War of the Gods. They join the Campaigns to scavenge the Dying Worlds for relics, resources and glory.
A Campaign might look like this:
Phase 1 is Spring. The Campaign map is hidden by fog of war. You are dropped (typically naked) into an unknown, deadly environment. This world is filled with the ruins of ancient castles, abandoned mines and haunted villages – which you have to explore to scavenge for weapons, tools and the resources to start building fortifications.
Phase 2 is Summer. The Hunger starts to infect the creatures. Resources become scarce. Your team claims an abandoned quarry and must fight to keep it. You use the stone to build an ancient keep, to use it as staging areas to attack their neighbors.
Phase 3 is Fall. The creatures become more deadly as the Hunger takes hold. Resources are heavily contested and transporting them is fraught with peril. Your guild frantically builds a wall around your city, as the nature of conflict shifts from smaller skirmishes to siege warfare.
Phase 4 is Winter. The environment is brutal. Warmth is hard to come by. Your kingdoms grows in strength; your neighbors falter and you demand that they swear fealty or face complete loss of the Campaign. Instead, a handful of smaller kingdoms choose to band together against you.
Phase 5 is Victory and Defeat. The World is destroyed in a cataclysmic event as the Campaign comes to an end. Your Kingdom emerges victorious, and you return to the Eternal Kingdoms to enjoy the spoils of war. Your adversaries head home, too -- to lick their wounds.
No one quits. Instead, both groups strategize on how to dominate the next Campaign.
This is the experience we are trying to create. Even if I lose, it won’t feel hollow.
We saw a similar pattern emerge during the SB beta… by accident, not design. Occasionally, changes to the game design would require us to wipe the world. Every time it happened, I was worried that players would quit the game. Instead, we saw incredibly high peak concurrency numbers after each wipe. Every time. The “land rush” to grab the key positions in the new world was incredibly alluring. If the world map was unique, I expect it would have been even more popular.
The downside of this approach is that we don’t want the universe to feel too transitory. That’s why we added the Eternal Kingdoms: super-sized player and guild housing Worlds. Trophy rooms that you can use as a “lobby” between matches/campaigns.
(To make sure these Worlds don’t compete with the “main” game, i.e. the Campaign Worlds, we’ve completely stripped them of resource factories and anything but common reagents. If you want to fill your trophy room, you have to go out and earn it.)
This is the foundational change that we’ve made. Crowfall isn’t an MMO with a “battle ground” strapped to the end of the level treadmill. Crowfall isn’t a three-way tug of war that never resets. It’s a real blend of a strategy game and an MMO.
There’s more (a LOT more) to come, but it all starts with this basic idea:
Eternal Heroes, Dying Worlds.
Todd
ACE