I think the show does a lot of things better than the books, and a lot of things worse. So yeah I enjoy getting the best of both worlds with the books and the show, and I also get to enjoy my sisters reactions as a show only person
I've come to terms with the show being a different, lesser thing, than the books
The hardest adjustment for me is that the book encourages/demands close reading and poring over the details, and the show absolutely cannot support that level of scrutiny. The book is stuffed with seemingly-throwaway details that end up telling whole stories, and the show puts everything right in the frame and announces it.
Which is fine, and is how TV kinda has to work, but it's not how I'm accustomed to enjoying GoT. I like that it's a story you have to actively engage with, that you have to put in what you want to get out. And while I understand why the show can't operate the same way, it's still a lesser experience for me.
I also have some big problems with the show's treatment of women, problems I do not have near as often with the books, and that's a bummer. That one isn't even a purely "The books are better!" thing - I'd have a problem with any show that pulls some of the shit GoT does. If anything, I'm more forgiving of it on the show than I normally would be, since I'm kinda committed to the story and am less willing to fuckin' bail when it starts bugging me.
I've come to terms with the show being a different, lesser thing, than the books
The hardest adjustment for me is that the book encourages/demands close reading and poring over the details, and the show absolutely cannot support that level of scrutiny. The book is stuffed with seemingly-throwaway details that end up telling whole stories, and the show puts everything right in the frame and announces it.
Which is fine, and is how TV kinda has to work, but it's not how I'm accustomed to enjoying GoT. I like that it's a story you have to actively engage with, that you have to put in what you want to get out. And while I understand why the show can't operate the same way, it's still a lesser experience for me.
I also have some big problems with the show's treatment of women, problems I do not have near as often with the books, and that's a bummer. That one isn't even a purely "The books are better!" thing - I'd have a problem with any show that pulls some of the shit GoT does. If anything, I'm more forgiving of it on the show than I normally would be, since I'm kinda committed to the story and am less willing to fuckin' bail when it starts bugging me.
I think the show could have done part of what the books do by incorporating flashbacks and internal monologue (thinking of the way the film 'Wild' brilliantly mixed in memory to the story). With better direction and more creative choices it could have been something really special, rather than what it is, which is still quite good but just comes nowhere close to touching the magic of the books. Even judging it on it's own terms, the writing has often fallen completely flat and a lot of the deviations from the books make no sense. Stannis didn't need to be written as a one note shitty-ass character for the benefit of the audience or whatever. I hate to be that guy, but Stannis is one of the best characters in the series and he completely sucks in the show. Dillane was perfect casting though.
I've come to terms with the show being a different, lesser thing, than the books
The hardest adjustment for me is that the book encourages/demands close reading and poring over the details, and the show absolutely cannot support that level of scrutiny. The book is stuffed with seemingly-throwaway details that end up telling whole stories, and the show puts everything right in the frame and announces it.
Which is fine, and is how TV kinda has to work, but it's not how I'm accustomed to enjoying GoT. I like that it's a story you have to actively engage with, that you have to put in what you want to get out. And while I understand why the show can't operate the same way, it's still a lesser experience for me.
I also have some big problems with the show's treatment of women, problems I do not have near as often with the books, and that's a bummer. That one isn't even a purely "The books are better!" thing - I'd have a problem with any show that pulls some of the shit GoT does. If anything, I'm more forgiving of it on the show than I normally would be, since I'm kinda committed to the story and am less willing to fuckin' bail when it starts bugging me.
I find it a bit odd that HBO were happy to put out The Wire which totally demanded close viewing, and Treme which pretty much demanded extra-curricular activity, yet when it comes to GoT suddenly everything has to be laid out in the open.
I've come to terms with the show being a different, lesser thing, than the books
The hardest adjustment for me is that the book encourages/demands close reading and poring over the details, and the show absolutely cannot support that level of scrutiny. The book is stuffed with seemingly-throwaway details that end up telling whole stories, and the show puts everything right in the frame and announces it.
Which is fine, and is how TV kinda has to work, but it's not how I'm accustomed to enjoying GoT. I like that it's a story you have to actively engage with, that you have to put in what you want to get out. And while I understand why the show can't operate the same way, it's still a lesser experience for me.
I also have some big problems with the show's treatment of women, problems I do not have near as often with the books, and that's a bummer. That one isn't even a purely "The books are better!" thing - I'd have a problem with any show that pulls some of the shit GoT does. If anything, I'm more forgiving of it on the show than I normally would be, since I'm kinda committed to the story and am less willing to fuckin' bail when it starts bugging me.
I find it a bit odd that HBO were happy to put out The Wire which totally demanded close viewing, and Treme which pretty much demanded extra-curricular activity, yet when it comes to GoT suddenly everything has to be laid out in the open.
The Wire and Treme were both shot for the TV equivalent of a pack of gum. Alienating new viewers isn't really a problem, since their financial investment is comparatively low - a cheap show with a loyal audience is enough to get a return on that investment.
As much money as they pour into GoT, though, I totally get why they want to make it as accessible as possible. I'm not super stoked about it, but I completely understand.
+1
fRAWRstThe Seas CallThe Mad AnswerRegistered Userregular
edited January 2015
This has reached a much (i dont know numbers, but GOT is the biggest thing ever right?) wider audience, and has spawned huge merchandise, events, and even is helping to sell hbo go standalone before s5
open and simple "dumb" is the way to make money yo
EDIT: and i guess apparently tits and boring shock value rape and torture porn
Yeah I don't think anyone expected it to become as ludicrously successful as it has. HBO's biggest earner of all time it's second only to The Walking Dead for viewers.
0
Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
I for one have come around on my opinion on Stannis.
I generally like him, even if he is portrayed as a single-minded baffoon.
But I like the sort of character who is just super stubborn & dedicated to their cause.
I also like little moments with him:
Matthos Seaworth: And I declare on the honour of my House that my beloved brother Robert left- Stannis Baratheon: He wasn't my beloved brother. I didn't love him. He didn't love me. Davos Seaworth: A harmless courtesy, Your Grace. Stannis Baratheon: A lie. Take it out. Matthos Seaworth: That my brother Robert left no trueborn heirs, the boy Joffrey, the boy Tommen and the girl Myrcella being born of incest between Cersei Lannister and her brother Jaime Lannnister. By right of birth- Stannis Baratheon: Jaime Lannister, the Kingslayer. Call him what he is. Matthos Seaworth: And her brother Jaime Lannister, the Kingslayer. By right of birth and blood, I do this day lay claim- Stannis Baratheon: Make it Ser Jaime Lannister the Kingslayer. Whatever else he is, the man's still a knight.
+13
Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
Of course, 75% the reason I like Stannis Baratheon is that he gives us scenes with Davos.
I love Davos, he might be the character I am rooting for the most in the whole series.
If you like Stannis at all in the show you will love him in the books, if you haven't read them. He also has the best one liners in fantasy novel history among other things.
The more time I spend thinking about it the more I feel aDwD and aFFC are my top two my books in the series.
Yeah aSoS had some heavy shit going down, but nothing nearly as subtle, interesting and I'm not sure, deep as either of the last two.
Huh, I just found out that (season 5 spoiler I guess)
Bran and Hodor aren't going to be in this season? Was that the end of their story arc in season 4?
Bran's caught up with where he is at the end of book 5, while most other characters are just ending in book 3 (though keep in mind that books 4 and 5 mostly happen at the same time)
If this line doesn't make it into the show, I will be inconsolably upset at the show.(book 5 spoilers)
"My son Wendel came to the the Twins a guest. He ate Lord Walder's bread and salt, and hung his sword upon the wall to feast with friends. And they murdered him. Murdered, I say, and may the Freys choke upon their fables. I drink with Jared, jape with Symond, promise Rhaegar the hand of my own beloved granddaughter ... but never think that means I have forgotten. The north remembers, Lord Davos. The north remembers, and the mummer’s farce is almost done. My son is home."[7]
Also
"Though mayhaps this was a blessing. Had he lived he would have grown up to be a Frey."
Psykoma on
+11
fRAWRstThe Seas CallThe Mad AnswerRegistered Userregular
the lack of casting for Wyman/manderlys has left many a fans very disappointed that the grand northern conspiracy will be cut
osha and rickon said umbers when they were last leaving
the lack of casting for Wyman/manderlys has left many a fans very disappointed that the grand northern conspiracy will be cut
osha and rickon said umbers when they were last leaving
It makes sense that the show would have them head towards the umbers, because unlike in the books they were basically at the wall before they split up, instead of splitting at winterfell.
I'm still holding out hope though.
0
fRAWRstThe Seas CallThe Mad AnswerRegistered Userregular
edited January 2015
its even odder because we havent seen a Umber since s1, when the actor decided not to return.
Wendel did die at the twins specifically tho, they showed him and his merman pin in about 4 different shots. That should have been groundwork for Frey Pies and such.
but that logic also leads to sansa mentioning how Lady Cate died, and was thrown into a river. Why establish that unless it'll come back?
Oh wait right, s2 has Tyrion say Trystane is second son to Doran, but s5 has him as heir. So maybe they just wing it and see what actually works
fRAWRst on
0
fRAWRstThe Seas CallThe Mad AnswerRegistered Userregular
Davos chapters have always been gold, but goddamn is his aDwD arc some of the best writing
I can see how it is costly and wont translate well to screen. Its just so fucking good. It would be a shame to lose it.
+1
Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
It's easy to be bored with Stannis but it's hard to not like him.
He is a man of his honor to a fault. He is probably closest to Ned in that regard... Other than the adultery.
0
fRAWRstThe Seas CallThe Mad AnswerRegistered Userregular
edited January 2015
stannis 2k15
even though dnd like to butcher him
I shall bring justice to Westeros. A thing Ser Axell understands as little as he does war. Claw Isle would gain me naught... and it was evil, just as you said. Celtigar must pay the traitor's price himself, in his own person. And when I come into my kingdom, he shall. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. And some will lose more than the tips off their fingers, I promise you. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that
It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son. I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother. The Lannister woman gave him horns and made a motley fool of him. She may have murdered him as well, as she murdered Jon Arryn and Ned Stark. For such crimes there must be justice. Starting with Cersei and her abominations. But only starting. I mean to scour that court clean. As Robert should have done after the Trident
Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.
oh and book stannis fucking hilarious
Stannis: I thought the wet nurse was this man Craster’s daughter?
Melisandre: Wife and daughter both, Your Grace. Craster married all his daughters. Gilly’s boy was the fruit of their union.
Stannis: Her own father got this child on her? We are well rid of her, then. I will not suffer such abominations here. This is not King’s Landing.
I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him?
I always liked that bit about the Baratheon Boys (the pop band they were in as youths?) being like different kinds of metals
The show put that bit in, if I recall correctly, but they let it define Stannis entirely, instead of letting it be a fatal flaw that was nonetheless part of a larger character tapestry
+1
fRAWRstThe Seas CallThe Mad AnswerRegistered Userregular
I always liked that bit about the Baratheon Boys (the pop band they were in as youths?) being like different kinds of metals
The show put that bit in, if I recall correctly, but they let it define Stannis entirely, instead of letting it be a fatal flaw that was nonetheless part of a larger character tapestry
Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He’ll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he’s copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day. ”
– Donal Noye, to Jon Snow
such a good quote
its part of why the show is equal parts heartbreaking and awesome
yes, i love seeing this epic story of morally gray characters, great set pieces and costumes, amazing cinematography and all that. but then they have a tits and ass and violence quota to meet every episode and its lame
but the books delve way deeper but end of aCoK is no where near as hype as S2Ep9 is.
I always liked that bit about the Baratheon Boys (the pop band they were in as youths?) being like different kinds of metals
The show put that bit in, if I recall correctly, but they let it define Stannis entirely, instead of letting it be a fatal flaw that was nonetheless part of a larger character tapestry
Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He’ll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he’s copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day. ”
– Donal Noye, to Jon Snow
such a good quote
its part of why the show is equal parts heartbreaking and awesome
yes, i love seeing this epic story of morally gray characters, great set pieces and costumes, amazing cinematography and all that. but then they have a tits and ass and violence quota to meet every episode and its lame
but the books delve way deeper but end of aCoK is no where near as hype as S2Ep9 is.
Ah, yeah, that's the one. Such good stuff! The show hits the "brittle" hard, but never really showcases the first part of that - hard and strong.
I always liked that bit about the Baratheon Boys (the pop band they were in as youths?) being like different kinds of metals
The show put that bit in, if I recall correctly, but they let it define Stannis entirely, instead of letting it be a fatal flaw that was nonetheless part of a larger character tapestry
Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He’ll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he’s copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day. ”
– Donal Noye, to Jon Snow
such a good quote
its part of why the show is equal parts heartbreaking and awesome
yes, i love seeing this epic story of morally gray characters, great set pieces and costumes, amazing cinematography and all that. but then they have a tits and ass and violence quota to meet every episode and its lame
but the books delve way deeper but end of aCoK is no where near as hype as S2Ep9 is.
Ah, yeah, that's the one. Such good stuff! The show hits the "brittle" hard, but never really showcases the first part of that - hard and strong.
He's just a gloomy gus glaring at maps
I thought his scene with Jon and Mance was exceptional for the character
Bottle of Buckie is one of my all-time favoritest songs by anyone ever
+1
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Stannis has probably taken the biggest hit in terms of his characterization in the books and the lack thereof in the show. Beyond removing all the good parts from his interactions with Davos, they also took out the peach scene between him and Renly. These are the kinds of decisions which strike me as strange given they wouldn't have added much, if any, time given they were already embedded in the existing scenes.
Stannis has probably taken the biggest hit in terms of his characterization in the books and the lack thereof in the show. Beyond removing all the good parts from his interactions with Davos, they also took out the peach scene between him and Renly. These are the kinds of decisions which strike me as strange given they wouldn't have added much, if any, time given they were already embedded in the existing scenes.
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The hardest adjustment for me is that the book encourages/demands close reading and poring over the details, and the show absolutely cannot support that level of scrutiny. The book is stuffed with seemingly-throwaway details that end up telling whole stories, and the show puts everything right in the frame and announces it.
Which is fine, and is how TV kinda has to work, but it's not how I'm accustomed to enjoying GoT. I like that it's a story you have to actively engage with, that you have to put in what you want to get out. And while I understand why the show can't operate the same way, it's still a lesser experience for me.
I also have some big problems with the show's treatment of women, problems I do not have near as often with the books, and that's a bummer. That one isn't even a purely "The books are better!" thing - I'd have a problem with any show that pulls some of the shit GoT does. If anything, I'm more forgiving of it on the show than I normally would be, since I'm kinda committed to the story and am less willing to fuckin' bail when it starts bugging me.
I think the show could have done part of what the books do by incorporating flashbacks and internal monologue (thinking of the way the film 'Wild' brilliantly mixed in memory to the story). With better direction and more creative choices it could have been something really special, rather than what it is, which is still quite good but just comes nowhere close to touching the magic of the books. Even judging it on it's own terms, the writing has often fallen completely flat and a lot of the deviations from the books make no sense. Stannis didn't need to be written as a one note shitty-ass character for the benefit of the audience or whatever. I hate to be that guy, but Stannis is one of the best characters in the series and he completely sucks in the show. Dillane was perfect casting though.
I find it a bit odd that HBO were happy to put out The Wire which totally demanded close viewing, and Treme which pretty much demanded extra-curricular activity, yet when it comes to GoT suddenly everything has to be laid out in the open.
The Wire and Treme were both shot for the TV equivalent of a pack of gum. Alienating new viewers isn't really a problem, since their financial investment is comparatively low - a cheap show with a loyal audience is enough to get a return on that investment.
As much money as they pour into GoT, though, I totally get why they want to make it as accessible as possible. I'm not super stoked about it, but I completely understand.
open and simple "dumb" is the way to make money yo
EDIT: and i guess apparently tits and boring shock value rape and torture porn
I generally like him, even if he is portrayed as a single-minded baffoon.
But I like the sort of character who is just super stubborn & dedicated to their cause.
I also like little moments with him:
I love Davos, he might be the character I am rooting for the most in the whole series.
I'm 50/50 on rooting for Davis and rooting for Arya to stab every single person
Yeah aSoS had some heavy shit going down, but nothing nearly as subtle, interesting and I'm not sure, deep as either of the last two.
If this line doesn't make it into the show, I will be inconsolably upset at the show.(book 5 spoilers)
Also
"Though mayhaps this was a blessing. Had he lived he would have grown up to be a Frey."
osha and rickon said umbers when they were last leaving
I'm still holding out hope though.
Wendel did die at the twins specifically tho, they showed him and his merman pin in about 4 different shots. That should have been groundwork for Frey Pies and such.
but that logic also leads to sansa mentioning how Lady Cate died, and was thrown into a river. Why establish that unless it'll come back?
Oh wait right, s2 has Tyrion say Trystane is second son to Doran, but s5 has him as heir. So maybe they just wing it and see what actually works
I can see how it is costly and wont translate well to screen. Its just so fucking good. It would be a shame to lose it.
He is a man of his honor to a fault. He is probably closest to Ned in that regard... Other than the adultery.
even though dnd like to butcher him
oh and book stannis fucking hilarious
ZING
The show put that bit in, if I recall correctly, but they let it define Stannis entirely, instead of letting it be a fatal flaw that was nonetheless part of a larger character tapestry
such a good quote
its part of why the show is equal parts heartbreaking and awesome
yes, i love seeing this epic story of morally gray characters, great set pieces and costumes, amazing cinematography and all that. but then they have a tits and ass and violence quota to meet every episode and its lame
but the books delve way deeper but end of aCoK is no where near as hype as S2Ep9 is.
Ah, yeah, that's the one. Such good stuff! The show hits the "brittle" hard, but never really showcases the first part of that - hard and strong.
He's just a gloomy gus glaring at maps
Not sitting in his corner reading the newspaper and going "huh, guess that happened" for a year
http://fuckyeahkingstannis.tumblr.com/
I thought his scene with Jon and Mance was exceptional for the character
Reminder that Ted Leo looks exactly like Stannis even though he swears he doesn't
Bottle of Buckie is one of my all-time favoritest songs by anyone ever
I think the biggest hit was taken by Dolorous Edd
But he probably expected that