PAX East Speaker Threatened With Violence by Enforcer

Muckraker18Muckraker18 Registered User regular
So Ben Kuchera of Polygon, but also a former Penny-Arcade employee at the PA Report just tweeted that there is apparently an Enforcer openly attacking one of the PAX East speakers on his Twitter. Openly threatening physical violence and encouraging others to make fun of her. No name for either, but she is apparently involved with speaking out against online harassment and this was the Enforcer's response. Sigh.






So yeah... I assume Ben still has some contacts at PA to get this taken care of and I'm not trying to start a big drama thread... but I just feel like this is something Penny-Arcade fans should be made aware of, because the only way to stop this crap is to shine a light on it. PAX is supposed to be a happy place where all of the online nonsense fades away and people come together to celebrate their shared interests. If one of the very people trusted with maintaining a sense of security at said happy place really did this, I hope PA comes down hard.

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  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    Yeah, I was linked to the Enforcer in question's tweets just a few minutes ago and came here to see if people were talking about it. I really hope Khoo comes down on this quick because it could turn into a real black eye for PAX if not.

    Puddingpie
  • FortyTwoFortyTwo strongest man in the world The Land of Pleasant Living Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    I would really like to see/ hear the penny arcade all-fathers post a very public smack down of gamergate and this bullshit.

    It appears as though they are handling it.

    FortyTwo on
  • FishmanFishman Good night, Westley; good work. Sleep well, I'll most likely kill you in the morning. Registered User regular
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  • agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular


    Some people are blowing up the photo into stalking, it was one consensual selfie, one of many he's taken with celebs at the con. The big bad dumb stupid part comes when he retweets a terrible joke about killing her to be the chosen one. I hope he's gone from the con because that is a real dumb thing to do.

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  • SwashbucklerXXSwashbucklerXX Swashbucklin' Canuck Registered User regular
    Good to hear it's being handled!

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  • FortyTwoFortyTwo strongest man in the world The Land of Pleasant Living Registered User regular
    It appears Ms. Wu is fine with the way things have been handled so I guess if that is the case then that is all anyone can really ask for.

  • FortyTwoFortyTwo strongest man in the world The Land of Pleasant Living Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    Has PA ever really taken a stance/ shot at the hold gamergate nonsense? I know Straub has taken it on in at least one comic.

    FortyTwo on
  • Muckraker18Muckraker18 Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    FortyTwo wrote: »
    Has PA ever really taken a stance/ shot at the hold gamergate nonsense? I know Straub has taken it on in at least one comic.

    I believe that "Gabe and Tycho" are genuinely awesome human beings. But Penny-Arcade got into trouble once because some took offense over the "Dickwolves rape" cartoon and also Mike specifically has gotten involved in some Twitter fights that turned ugly with some insensitive LGBT remarks. I haven't seen them personally speak out against GamerGate, but I think that is just because they are trying to stay away from certain kinds of controversy because of the baggage in their own past. To be clear: Mike has apologized several times, and again, I believe PA is a great organization run by great people. But I don't blame them for staying silent on GG, because there would probably be a bunch of people that would immediately call them hypocrites, etc, because that's how online conversations work. My two cents. But I would love for them to make a cartoon taking down GG.

    Edit: See my post below. They have apparently talked about it a little... but still not like how I wish they would.

    Muckraker18 on
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  • FishmanFishman Good night, Westley; good work. Sleep well, I'll most likely kill you in the morning. Registered User regular
    About the only mention of the entire controversy on the front page was in one of Tycho's newsposts, and even that was pretty circumspect and talked around it without really addressing it, way back when it was still in its first weeks.
    It is the height of ridiculousness that I feel compelled to come down on one side or another of the “death threats” issue. Like Danny Glover, I am too old for this shit. One of the ways you know I am too old is that I make references Danny Glover. Here’s what’s going on: a distilled form of Abuse is being iterated on a profound and gruesome scale. Such people cannot be allowed to win. Ever.

    You can’t threaten people with death, and I resent very strongly being made to type that out. Not only can you not do that because you can’t fucking do it, it has the power to obliterate everything else you say. In fact, it obliterates everything the people around you are trying to say. That’s what has happened now. I know that this situation is more complex than anyone is willing to enunciate. I know that “Gaming Journalism” is a contradiction in terms. But they’ve broken your banner, now, and you helped them do it. I grieve for the ones who tried to do it right. When your media doesn’t represent you, or actively attacks you as it has here, it’s not your media. You’ll have to make your own, and it’s not impossible. It’s more possible now than it has ever been in human history, and you’re reading an example of it at this moment. Go your own way.

    I’ve enunciated a reasonable position though, right? That you can’t threaten people’s lives? Watch me get crucified for it; let my crossbeams be made from two sturdy hashtags.

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  • Muckraker18Muckraker18 Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    I was wrong. They also talked about it just last month:


    They focused on the positive aspects of PAX in person compared to online arguments. Which is fine. But yeah, I would have liked them to just come out and say that the harassment angle is BS. The CEO of Blizzard stood up at Blizzcon last year and spoke out against it. I'd like to see more powerful, huge people in the industry just come out and call them out.

    Edit: Or more specifically, I don't like that in the above news post he sounded like he sympathized with GGers who were not sending threats and just wanted better journalism. Maybe there are some people like that, but it's been well established that the people sending the death threats and verbally abusing women are the ones who initially came up with the idea to redirect the discussion onto gaming journalism. It's a red herring. Yes, games journalism needs fixed, but anyone who chooses to use the Gamergate hashtag is associating themselves with a hate movement, regardless of their personal goals. That's what needs to be said. Don't try to please both sides, call them out for what they are.

    Muckraker18 on
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  • Prof. AwesomeProf. Awesome Registered User regular
    I think this is what happens when you try to ignore gamergate exists and hope it will go away on it's own.

    Centipede Damascustynic
  • NijhazerNijhazer Sunnyvale, CARegistered User regular
    edited March 2015
    Edit: Or more specifically, I don't like that in the above news post he sounded like he sympathized with GGers who were not sending threats and just wanted better journalism.

    Maybe the reason why folks want to stay out of this discussion is because of how folks will try to spin anything they do say into a weapon that can be used against them.

    Nijhazer on
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  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2015
    For a while now, even pre gamergate, PAX at it's current size needs to go to professional security that is a neutral party to the people they are protecting. Enforcers should not be involved in security at all anymore, but rather just coordinating the tournaments and game rooms and stuff.

    FyreWulff on
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  • BeechsackBeechsack Registered User regular
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    For a while now, even pre gamergate, PAX at it's current size needs to go to professional security that is a neutral party to the people they are protecting. Enforcers should not be involved in security at all anymore, but rather just coordinating the tournaments and game rooms and stuff.

    Enforcers are not, and never have been, part of show security. Folks really need to stop perpetuating that myth. (Although Brianna Wu clearly is confused by this too.) There are a few enforcers who interface with site security, but on the whole, that's not what they do.

    At East, there are uniformed and plainclothes security staff all over the BCEC. I've been told some plainclothes security are off duty Boston PD and MBTA PD, but I don't know that firsthand. East is one of the largest events in that building; security is plentiful, and visible. Brianna Wu had her OWN security with her, which is perfectly understandable given what she's dealt with.

    This young man most likely is learning a harsh lesson that words have consequences, joking or not joking. One has to assume he was removed from the convention, and earned a lifetime ban to all future PAX events, if not the BCEC in general.

  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    Beechsack wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    For a while now, even pre gamergate, PAX at it's current size needs to go to professional security that is a neutral party to the people they are protecting. Enforcers should not be involved in security at all anymore, but rather just coordinating the tournaments and game rooms and stuff.

    Enforcers are not, and never have been, part of show security. Folks really need to stop perpetuating that myth. (Although Brianna Wu clearly is confused by this too.) There are a few enforcers who interface with site security, but on the whole, that's not what they do.

    At East, there are uniformed and plainclothes security staff all over the BCEC. I've been told some plainclothes security are off duty Boston PD and MBTA PD, but I don't know that firsthand. East is one of the largest events in that building; security is plentiful, and visible. Brianna Wu had her OWN security with her, which is perfectly understandable given what she's dealt with.

    This young man most likely is learning a harsh lesson that words have consequences, joking or not joking. One has to assume he was removed from the convention, and earned a lifetime ban to all future PAX events, if not the BCEC in general.

    So far it looks like nope, that didn't happen.

    No I don't.
  • B:LB:L Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    So far it looks like nope, that didn't happen.
    Unconfirmed, but someone said the creator of Cards Against Humanity said the offender who RT'd a bad joke has been removed.

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  • TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    This is a dude who wasn't "stalking" Wu so much as making an extremely poor choice of re-tweets after getting a picture with her.

    While I believe he is sincere that he wouldn't ever harm her, words (not even his, but he gave them a megaphone) have consequences and he needs to be removed from PAX. A lifetime ban? I don't think so, he's just an idiot and hopefully learns a valuable lesson.

    Note: He also said some not cool things about Anita Sarkeesian that were graphically sexual in the past and has thrown around pro-gg hash tags as well after claiming on Twitter he's neutral, I assume to try and damage control the situation a bit.

    People really need to realize that the shit you post online can't (usually) be erased after its been seen and can seriously effect your life down the road.

    ---

    I really wish PA would take a firm stance against Gamer Gate. It really feels as if they want to toe toe the line so as not to create controversy again for the umpteenth time, but I think it would go a long way (or at least make strides) towards healing those that have been upset by the stuff Mike has said in the past.

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  • BeechsackBeechsack Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    I agree that he probably wouldn't have hurt Wu, or anyone. I could probably apply the same statement to 99% of the idiots on Twitter to say the stuff they do.

    That being said, one of the tenets of the PAX experience is inclusiveness. It's supposed to be a safe haven, a place where everyone accepts everyone for whoever they are and whatever they like. Now, you have someone directly associated with a vulgar group of harassers who was an Enforcer, directly associated with the show. That's going to affect people, and make them seriously consider their future attendance. Is it going to kill the show? No. But it's going to impact people. If they can't feel safe, they're not going to go.

    Maybe a lifetime ban is a bit much, but I don't think he'll be around for a while. Hopefully he learns his lesson, and apologizes to Ms. Wu.

    EDIT; And to those that dispute the inclusiveness / safe place perspective, I point you to Mike's words:
    Gabe wrote:
    We have worked very hard to make PAX a safe place. We have an incredible anti-harassment policy, a “booth babe” policy that you will not find anywhere else in the industry,and panels that cover all the social issues facing gaming today in a meaningful way. That’s the heart of PAX and that will never change.
    Source : http://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2013/09/04/some-clarification

    EDIT EDIT : Per official PAX policies, what happened constitutes grounds for a lifetime show ban.
    PAX Rule 5 wrote:
    DON’T HARASS ANYONE
    Policy Overview
    Any form of harassment, whether that’s based on gender identity/expression, race, sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance, or religion, will not be tolerated at PAX. If you are caught or reported to have harassed anyone at PAX, you will go through our reporting process and face remediation steps.
    Definitions
    Harassment: Verbal, physical, psychological, or sexual abuse.
    Sexual Harassment: The following actions are considered inappropriate and may be considered sexual harassment.
    Teasing, jokes, innuendo, photos/images, gestures of a sexual/unwanted nature.
    Touching or grabbing of a sexual nature.
    Repeatedly standing too close to or brushing up against a person.
    Giving gifts of a sexual/unwanted nature

    Physical Harassment: Physical contact in an unwanted way toward another individual. (Also see Rule 3)
    Psychological Harassment: Unwarranted hostile behavior, threats, or intimidation made toward another individual.
    Remediation
    Harassment incidents are documented using our harassment incident reporting form, completed by either Enforcer Security Team members or PA staff, whichever the complainant is comfortable with. Although a form will be filled out for all incidents, it is optional (albeit encouraged) for the complainant to go on record with their report.
    Anyone who engages in harassment will be removed from PAX premises immediately, have their badge revoked, and be given a permanent ban to the show. Onsite security and police will be notified in accordance with all state laws and governing procedures.
    Confidentiality
    Any and all information relating to the victims of harassment will be treated by PAX as confidential unless otherwise required by law, overriding public health and safety concerns, or authorized by the parties in question.

    Beechsack on
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  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    This is a dude who wasn't "stalking" Wu so much as making an extremely poor choice of re-tweets after getting a picture with her.

    While I believe he is sincere that he wouldn't ever harm her, words (not even his, but he gave them a megaphone) have consequences and he needs to be removed from PAX. A lifetime ban? I don't think so, he's just an idiot and hopefully learns a valuable lesson.

    Note: He also said some not cool things about Anita Sarkeesian that were graphically sexual in the past and has thrown around pro-gg hash tags as well after claiming on Twitter he's neutral, I assume to try and damage control the situation a bit.

    People really need to realize that the shit you post online can't (usually) be erased after its been seen and can seriously effect your life down the road.

    ---

    I really wish PA would take a firm stance against Gamer Gate. It really feels as if they want to toe toe the line so as not to create controversy again for the umpteenth time, but I think it would go a long way (or at least make strides) towards healing those that have been upset by the stuff Mike has said in the past.

    Quite frankly I think things like this deserve some light jail time... So a lifetime ban from a convention would be getting off easy.

    No I don't.
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Beechsack wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    For a while now, even pre gamergate, PAX at it's current size needs to go to professional security that is a neutral party to the people they are protecting. Enforcers should not be involved in security at all anymore, but rather just coordinating the tournaments and game rooms and stuff.

    Enforcers are not, and never have been, part of show security. Folks really need to stop perpetuating that myth.

    They've sure acted like it in the past from what I've seen (went in 07, 08, 10, and 12). And you know. Them being called "Enforcers".

  • TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    People who do it maliciously, maybe.

    There are plenty of GGers on Twitter saying shit like "I've hidden aids infested needles around pax, try and find them" or directly threatening to kill people. These are the people who deserve that, not this guy.

    Sloth_Sig.png
  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    People who do it maliciously, maybe.

    There are plenty of GGers on Twitter saying shit like "I've hidden aids infested needles around pax, try and find them" or directly threatening to kill people. These are the people who deserve that, not this guy.

    Why the hell not this guy? He threatened someone at the convention.

    No I don't.
    AngelHedgie
  • TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    No. He reposted a stupid, offensive joke that someone tweeted to him AFTER interacting with her.

    Edit: I feel like I am defending him, which is weird, so let me reiterate that he is a moron who made some really poor choices and needs to learn how life works. He should be stripped of his Enforcerness and kicked from the show and maybe get banned for a year or something. People like this kid can be rehabilitated and learn a lesson by getting shamed and reprimanded, not punishment/vengeance.

    TehSpectre on
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  • Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    No. He reposted a stupid, offensive joke that someone tweeted to him AFTER interacting with her.

    Sorry, threats aren't jokes.

    No I don't.
  • TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    It. Wasn't. A. Threat.

    Sloth_Sig.png
  • BeechsackBeechsack Registered User regular
    Had this young man's Twitter history contained nothing even resembling threats, insults, etc before today, then I'd personally be more inclined to say 'well, he showed poor judgement once, oops'.

    But it doesn't. Wasn't the first time he had RT'd or otherwise made comments in this realm.

    Consider this. He obviously knew who Ms. Wu was. If you know who she is, it's highly unlikely that you are unaware of the harassment she's endured. If you're at PAX, and an Enforcer, even less likely, if not impossible to NOT know. So knowing she had been the subject of threats, he ACTIVELY PARTICIPATED in another one.

    It's inexcusable to make any such threat towards another person, jokingly or not. It's doubly so to do it at the expense of a person who has been hounded by such things. It's infinitesimally more so to do it at an event like this, where you are an effective representative, even if you're only a person there to make sure people are standing inside the tape lines on the floor.


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  • FortyTwoFortyTwo strongest man in the world The Land of Pleasant Living Registered User regular
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    It. Wasn't. A. Threat.

    When someone who very publicly has been the target of death threats is in a pic and someone bemoans the other not "going in for the kill," and how he could have been "the chosen one."

    Joking about someone's death - someone who very publicly has received death and rape threats - it is a bad look. He should know better - oh no wait, he knew exactly what he was doing.

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  • BeechsackBeechsack Registered User regular
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Beechsack wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    For a while now, even pre gamergate, PAX at it's current size needs to go to professional security that is a neutral party to the people they are protecting. Enforcers should not be involved in security at all anymore, but rather just coordinating the tournaments and game rooms and stuff.

    Enforcers are not, and never have been, part of show security. Folks really need to stop perpetuating that myth.

    They've sure acted like it in the past from what I've seen (went in 07, 08, 10, and 12). And you know. Them being called "Enforcers".

    I can't say I've had the same experience at East. Missed '14 due to a work project, and '15 thanks to a canceled flight, but attended '10-'13 in Boston. I've never seen an Enforcer be anything but overwhelmingly helpful, if a little too strict on the damn tape lines sometimes. :) Even the first year at Hynes, which was WAY too small a venue for 50k+ (hence the move to BCEC)

  • BeechsackBeechsack Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    Look at the screencaps of the guys account that this person posted. He did not make any overt threats himself that are screenshotted, but it's clear this individual was aware of who Ms. Wu is, and should absolutely have known of her story.





    Beechsack on
  • FortyTwoFortyTwo strongest man in the world The Land of Pleasant Living Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    I can understand PA's unwillingness to jump into this shit show. I will say this about Tycho's statement, PA has long ragged on the cozy relationship between developers and games journalists, so I get that Tycho would lament the people that genuinely wanted that but are now lumped in with the fuckwittery that is GG.

    However, GG was never really about that. Not really. It was something that was used to bring unsuspecting people into their ranks to be used as pawns in a twisted Chan operation. It is built around misogyny, fear, and general bigotry of many kinds. Knowing this, it would be nice to see the guys take this head-on and let GG know they do not have an ally here.

    From the general sense of the forums it does not appear that they do. Not in SE anyway.

    FortyTwo on
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  • TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    Ugh, looks like his Twitter was banned, but he had an alt account and has gone full channer/gg obnoxious.

    Fuck that guy. I was wrong.

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  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    FortyTwo wrote: »
    I can understand PA's unwillingness to jump into this shit show. I will say this about Tycho's statement, PA has long ragged on the cozy relationship between developers and games journalists, so I get that Tycho would lament the people that genuinely wanted that but are now lumped in with the fuckwittery that is GG.

    However, GG was never really about that. Not really. It was something that was used to bring unsuspecting people into their ranks to be used as pawns in a twisted Chan operation. It is built around misogyny, fear, and general bigotry of many kinds. Knowing this, it would be nice to see the guys take this head-on and let GG know they do not have an ally here.

    From the general sense of the forums it does not appear that they do. Not in SE anyway.

    I definitely agree with this. I understand their unwillingness to jump into a very polarizing shit show, regardless of what "side" they take. And it's also true that GG was never about journalism, in any way except as a smokescreen. So, yeah, I'd like to see PA not tiptoe around the issue and say a clear, unambiguous: "This shit is bad and we don't stand for it". Though, again, I understand why they'd rather steer completely clear of the whole thing. I just don't think they can anymore.

    At any rate, it's good to see GG don't have an ally in SE. I know that in the D&D thread about the issue, they did not have an ally here either. Nor did they in the Hub. This is at least a good sign re: a portion of the PA fanbase/community­.

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  • DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    I'm keeping a leery eye on this situation. PA needs to make a big ol' public statement about how they do not tolerate this behavior whatsoever, and highlight how they will deal with it in the future. All women are potential targets of this harassment, especially if they dare to speak up against harassment.

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  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    I'll say this. He should get everything coming to him for RT'ing or posting whatever harrassment and death threat bullshit.
    No harrassment, bullying, threatening should ever be allowed.
    I'm so sick and tired of people saying that a punishment is too harsh, oh give him another chance.

    No.

    Punishment should always be more severe than the crime committed. It would then be not worth your time to do the stupid crime in the first place.

    Good on Penny Arcade and the local security for processing this quickly, efficiently, and with the repercussions deemed appropriate.

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  • GreatLimmickGreatLimmick Registered User new member
    Shayde wrote: »
    She encourages threats to get more donations to her "cause". PA should have banned her outright.
    If you really believe that's true, then the worst thing you can do to her is nothing. Without any abuse, the "professional victim" business will dry up. If she has confederates sending her threats at her behest, their identity will eventually come to light.

    I don't think very many people truly believe that though. I suspect most people who repeat it believe it is a blatant lie and hope it will make her look bad.

  • FortyTwoFortyTwo strongest man in the world The Land of Pleasant Living Registered User regular
    Tych did essentially compare them to terrorists. So there is that. "Peacing out is letting the terrorists win, you respond by doing the right thing."

  • DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    I have some beefs with Wu, but I will not stand for anyone threatening her in this manner. Standing against harassment and threats of violence should not be a conditional stance. End of story.

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  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    We are not going to have a gamergate discussion or debate here.

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

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  • ShaydeShayde Kitchen Staff Supervisor MargaritavilleRegistered User regular
    Shayde wrote: »
    She encourages threats to get more donations to her "cause". PA should have banned her outright.
    If you really believe that's true, then the worst thing you can do to her is nothing. Without any abuse, the "professional victim" business will dry up. If she has confederates sending her threats at her behest, their identity will eventually come to light.

    I don't think very many people truly believe that though. I suspect most people who repeat it believe it is a blatant lie and hope it will make her look bad.

    I don't give two shits about GG, but when someone takes money for being a victim (go donate to her paetron everyone!) then incidents like this are HIGHLY suspect.

    Tawana Brawley.

    Shayde

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  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I'm not going to say it again.

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

This discussion has been closed.