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[PA Comic] Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - The Judging Wood, Part Three

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited March 2015 in The Penny Arcade Hub

image[PA Comic] Wednesday, March 11, 2015 - The Judging Wood, Part Three

The Judging Wood, Part Three

The Judging Wood, Part Three

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2015/03/11

Read the full story here


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  • Kwisatz Haderach Kwisatz Haderach The power to destroy a thing is the absolute control over it. Registered User regular
    Wow nice sense of scale :)

    As ever beautiful colouring and lighting, loving Gabe's continued use of glow effects!

  • I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    BOOOYYYYYY

    liEt3nH.png
  • GDT1985GDT1985 Registered User regular
    Wow nice sense of scale :)

    As ever beautiful colouring and lighting, loving Gabe's continued use of glow effects!

    While I agree that it looks great, Mike didn't color these.

  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    Hahahahahahahahaha

    I love the slightly bewildered look by lion tree.

    Even Cowl looks down on the lack of propriety.

    Quid on
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Liontree related to the Tall Man?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpKLPklM6U0

  • QuicalQuical Registered User regular
    Yeah. Ok. I love these strips but i have no idea what's going on here now. The trouble with doing something like this every so often and when you have an idea for it is it's super hard to see how it all meshes together.

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  • OmegaDezOmegaDez CanadaRegistered User regular
    Quical wrote: »
    Yeah. Ok. I love these strips but i have no idea what's going on here now. The trouble with doing something like this every so often and when you have an idea for it is it's super hard to see how it all meshes together.

    Yeah, I'm like you. I love the comics about the Eyrewood, or Automata, but I just don't know how people manage to "understand them" as a whole. Every year at PAX I hear Jerry talk about the lookouts and I'm like... How do people keep up with this stuff? Is there something I'm missing? Should I listen to every podcast and read every newspost out there to understand this whole Eyrewood universe a bit more? Is there a wiki I'm missing?

    When they did that gorgeous "Daughters of the Eyrewood" mini series last year, everone was like "Finally!" And I was like... "daughters of what?"

    Long story short, been a regular PA reader for more than a decade, and a constant PAX attendee, and I still feel like most of the PAniverse is going over my head.

  • AntonNULAntonNUL Registered User regular
    Yeah, this is the big issue I find with Jerry's writing. It's far too subtle. You can get most of it after the entire series is over with, but this seems utterly disconnected from the previous strip, even though I think I understand what is going on here. Same with Automata. I feel like it just needs a few more strips to explain what the hell is going on and then it's perfect, but I never see them and I leave these series confused.

    Sand, I think, was the worst offender.

  • OmegaDezOmegaDez CanadaRegistered User regular
    AntonNUL wrote: »
    Yeah, this is the big issue I find with Jerry's writing. It's far too subtle. You can get most of it after the entire series is over with, but this seems utterly disconnected from the previous strip, even though I think I understand what is going on here. Same with Automata. I feel like it just needs a few more strips to explain what the hell is going on and then it's perfect, but I never see them and I leave these series confused.

    Sand, I think, was the worst offender.


    The thing, is, I love those comics to death even though I feel like I'm not seeing the big picture. The art, the shift in tone from the usual PA fare, and even that "subtle Jerry writing", I enjoy tremendously. I just wish there was some "about page" or something.

    Heck, Jerry often talks about the "lookout books"
    WHAT ARE THOSE?

  • joakjoak Registered User regular
    I used to find these nonsensical story husks to be obnoxious. Now that the comic has largely devolved into "Kids Say the Darndest things: The Comic", I find myself largely ambivalent.

  • ZetxZetx 🐧 Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    I wish they had more of these lined up so they could flesh 'em out more. The "in medias res" -ish nature of these makes them difficult to follow. And then it's already over.
    That said, I do enjoy 'em. And the art is beautiful.

    Zetx on
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  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    I like the feeling that you're getting a glimpse into a much bigger world that these side projects (Lookouts etc., Automata, Sand) give you... but after a while the lack of exposition or context does start to grate. Sometimes I get the feeling Jerry and Mike sort of forget that they haven't fleshed out these worlds for their audience anywhere close to the extent that they must be fleshed out in their own heads and private discussions.

    One of the great things people often cite about the original Star Wars trilogy was how vast and fully realized the universe felt... like if you panned the camera away from Luke and Han or whoever and pointed it in a random direction you would see other people going about their business and having their own adventures. But Star Wars still managed to communicate to the audience everything that they needed to understand the story actually being told at the time.

  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    I agree with everyone else here, I love this setting it is really interesting but we get too little a glimpse to really connect with what is going on. We saw the big tree lion/dog thing in a previous one it was healed by the daughter who was going through the change, looks like the daughters come from the same villages as the Lookouts but they are called to the forest for the change, looks like some people like them others not so much (in regards to the Thornwatch that meets her)

    So far in this series we have a lone lookout who is either injured or grieving and lost in the woods, a daughter spies on him and asks him in a round about weird way if he is lost or something, the owl wants him dead for breaking the laws (whatever they may be) and the daughter says he is too young. Big tree lion senses the boy and comes running either to eat or whatever, daughter tells him to pipe down while adults are talking.

    So far not too bad, I have the gist of what is going on but as we have seen in the past there likely will be a quick resolution or it will just stop leaving more questions than answers.

    While I do like the occasional left up to your imagination or mystery vignettes, I often think the artists/writers forget we don't have a window into their minds. What may make sense to them is just a bunch of nonsense and pretty pictures to us. I see it in a bunch of comics/webcomics, the creators get going and forget that we are along for the ride and sometimes we need a bit more information to process what is going on.

    Switch SW-6182-1526-0041
  • timmywiltimmywil Chattanooga, TNRegistered User regular
    Yes, Jerry loves subtlety. I both love and hate him for this. On the one hand, I love the discovery aspect. On the other, I just want to shake him and have him explain in plain language what the hell is going on.

  • timmywiltimmywil Chattanooga, TNRegistered User regular
    But, that's just a feeling I've had in the past. In this particular case, I think I'm actually following along.

  • K.MI.K.C.K.MI.K.C. Registered User regular
    It's great I think. We finally get to see how Daughters and Lookouts interact, also their reaction to the same stimuli. For the boy the Eyrewood is a hostile environment, whereas the Daughter seems to be a sort of mediator between Nature and civilization. Which I find interesting because the last comic with Hannah made it seem like she sided with the Eyrewood against mankind.
    Anyway, Trill is a badass.

  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    Re: "WTF is going, am I missing something?"

    If you've ever read Diamond Age or Anathem by Neal Stephenson, you have felt this way. That guy just drops you into a world he never directly explains, but, as the story unfolds, he leaves you clues to infer what is going on in the bigger picture. For me, it adds a real element of exploration to world building experience and I LOVE it.

    And I love these.

    Every glimpse into this world is like turning over that first rock and realizing that, not only is there cool shit under this rock, there might be cool shit under all of the others. Example: Taken by itself, this strip may cause one to think that she has horns and flowers in her hair. But no, thanks to The Tithe, we know there is a god damned branch growing out of her head; and that is thousand times stranger and more interesting.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
  • HearthsingerHearthsinger Actor/Writer NYCRegistered User regular
    I love the writing and how we are left to piece together the threads of the Eyrewood mythos. I love when these storylines come out. I think the Lookouts novel and the Thornwatch game will give us more time to hang out in this world and get a clearer sense of it.

  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    I'm loving the 'scales of justice' vibe of her skull flora/fauna. Murderous owl on one side, chill-bird on the other. It's a great design.

  • GDT1985GDT1985 Registered User regular
    It may be a stylistic choice, but what is the deal with the black spot on Trill's face? It seems to move.

  • ZetxZetx 🐧 Registered User regular
    I'd love 'em more if they came more frequently. :3

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  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    I'm pretty okay with the lack of information. Not that I wouldn't love a full-fledged graphic novel, I totally would pay the monies for that. But I've always liked short stories that imply a much bigger world, as long as they have something to say by themselves (which I guess is what Gaslight said). The thing is, what a short story has to say doesn't always have to be an actual plot. In most of the side stories PA does, I'd say the "point" is more getting a picture of who these characters, affiliations, and creatures are. And the dialogue and art go so well together as to give us that even in a single frame. I may not know the resolution to a mystery in Automata, but I *get* Carl. I may not know if Phorr makes it off the Sand planet or what attacked the ship that forced the humans to land there, but I know pretty much understand why the ship made him immortal, why it wants him to gather the rest, why he is willing to die to fulfill that mission, and why people have a problem with him. I may not know the specifics of how the Thornwatch, Daughters, and Lookouts interact, but I know why they butt heads and I have good reason to side with any of them, or against any of them.

  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles But we decide which is right and which is an illusion.Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    OmegaDez wrote: »
    AntonNUL wrote: »
    Yeah, this is the big issue I find with Jerry's writing. It's far too subtle. You can get most of it after the entire series is over with, but this seems utterly disconnected from the previous strip, even though I think I understand what is going on here. Same with Automata. I feel like it just needs a few more strips to explain what the hell is going on and then it's perfect, but I never see them and I leave these series confused.

    Sand, I think, was the worst offender.

    The thing, is, I love those comics to death even though I feel like I'm not seeing the big picture. The art, the shift in tone from the usual PA fare, and even that "subtle Jerry writing", I enjoy tremendously. I just wish there was some "about page" or something.

    Heck, Jerry often talks about the "lookout books"
    WHAT ARE THOSE?


    Short answer; yes, you're missing out by not following the newsposts/podcasts. Long answer; generally speaking, the trick is just to watch the front page like a hawk whenever these stories are running, cause that's when they post about it. Also, periodically skim the DLC listings and 4th Panel videos to see if they've uploaded one about writing one of the storyline strips (they don't always go up around the same time as the comic). Lastly, because they've been playtesting Thornwatch at PAX conventions, it's a good idea to watch the main page before, during, and after the show in case Mike drops any juicy tidbits about the setting in one of his "dev blog" posts. One other thing to note is that several of Mike's recent Monday sketch dump posts have had character concepts that showed up in Eyrewood stuff right after (Jerry's teaser chapter about a boy named Chant, & Trill in the current comics).

    Admittedly it is kind of a bad move on their part how much they take for granted that the audience just knows all this stuff. The best example of that I can remember was at either the 2nd or 4th PAX, during one of the Q&A's, someone either asked what they thought about Tim Buckley, or what the inspiration was for L.H. Franzibald (Tycho's douchey rival who ripped off his Elemenstor Saga to make the substantially inferior Song of the Sorcelator), and they indirectly answered, but most of the audience didn't get it. They were totally flummoxed that people hadn't made the connection, and proceeded to explain it.

    Jerry is supposed to write one or more novels about the Eyrewood setting as cross-promotion for the Thornwatch tabletop game Mike is lead designer of, kind of like Weiss & Hickman with Dragonlance, or R.A. Salvatore for Forgotten Realms. The previously linked teaser chapter is the beginning of that. Also, there is a commercially available comic book about the Lookouts made by a different team with Jerry and Mike just having editorial control (I haven't read this one). Jerry has posted other material along with examples of fan art in the newsposts contemporary to previous Eyrewood stories in the comic, during the Tithe there was a seriously dark short poem he wrote about a girl becoming a Daughter and winding up having to kill (either her father or brother, I forget), for instance. Probably the most important bit was someone from the forums' analysis of the three groups that Mike reposted and basically confirmed as cannon, seen here. Other key things to note is that Daughters are basically seen as witches by everyone else (except the druid-archetype Thornwatch member), and Thornwatch are some kind of cursed outcasts; I think in one of Mike's posts about the tabletop game it was implied that they might be ghosts/revenants of some sort, but I could be misremembering that.

    They haven't really provided any substantial elaboration of Automata as far as I know, but I'm pretty terrible about keeping up with everything myself.

    Sand was briefly discussed in some of the original run of podcasts, commentary for one of the old print collections of PA, and in some more recent tangential material. All we have is the broad overview of a sci-fi/western retelling of the old testament where God is the malfunctioning AI of a crashed colony ship the world's inhabitants have forgotten about, and the prophets and heroes some sort of enhanced humans sent to bring them back. The most recent run of Sand had either podcasts or 4th panel videos which went into the writing process a little bit, and left me with the impression that they intend to diverge into a more original narrative merely drawing thematic inspiration from the scripture. Interesting trivia; Sand dates back to when they were working on their high school newspaper together, and at some point during PA's early-middle days they were going to be submit it for one of those collaborative anthologies like Kazu Kibuishi's Flight, but those plans obviously fell through.

    GDT1985 wrote: »
    It may be a stylistic choice, but what is the deal with the black spot on Trill's face? It seems to move.

    Pretty sure it's supposed to be a smudge of dirt on her face.

    H3Knuckles on
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  • LieutenantDanLieutenantDan Registered User regular
    Those tree lions just want to eat boys. eat em.

    Agree - would like more story, but also happy to just look at them and let the imagination go.

    I'd love these comics to be narrative but they're not. They're just vignettes. Once I thought about it that way it was easier to accept. Some confusion because in the posts they refer to these things as "story lines" or whatever, which is a bit of a misnomer.

  • WhelmedWhelmed Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    I'm definitely in the camp that has no idea what's going on. But it's very pretty, whatever it is! It's strange because they could do something like the Destiny fanfic strip, a game I know very little about, and they told a whole story I understood easily. Something seems to get lost in translation in the original works and the stories / vignettes end up really confusing.

    Maybe it's just a function of releasing the story three panels at a time and everything will make more sense when it's 15 complete panels at the end of this thing. But the Destiny strip also had a lot of words! More words would certainly be appreciated in the future, even though the art is lovely.

    Whelmed on
  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    http://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2013/09/20/from-the-forums

    “From what I understand, based on the comics on the site and the Cryptozoics, the three factions have loose affiliations based on their mandates.

    Lookouts: protect the village from the things in the forest.
    Daughters: protect the forest from everything. Sometimes that means the people in the village.
    Thornwatch: protect the vulnerable from the village and the forest.

    So sometimes their goals align, sometimes they are opposed.”

    This should help get through any storyline about this place.

    jCyyTSo.png
  • bbraddsbbradds Registered User new member
    I like how it was to be the owl that was rare, but it ended up to be her hair.

  • Mike FehlauerMike Fehlauer Registered User regular
    It's true what's been said below: Jerry's writing is hard. He asks a helluva lot from the reader. He's a bit like that in real life; an everyday conversation with the man demands one's full attention. I've often found myself, after engaging with him for several minutes, saying what I think is a new, salient point. And Jerry exasperatedly exclaiming "Yes! This is what we are talking about!" It can be frustrating.

    The newsposts are thrice-weekly examples of the phenomenon. He'll introduce and refer to notions with little or no context. The expectation is that the reader is already in the know; if the reader is not in the know, the demand is that the reader go get a clue and then return. But it's selective; the recent post about the final Pac Man round of the Omegathon at PAX was a perfect balance of setup and delivery, in my opinion.

    Anyway. For those feeling lost, there's a collection of previous Eyrewood strips here: http://penny-arcade.com/comic/hub/#sideStories

    For Thornwatch development, I've put together and maintained a much more extensive internally-accessible linklist with non-comic Eyrewood information, such as standalone art, posts, and such. Maybe we should make that public, or add it to an Eyrewood page.

  • Spoon1Spoon1 Registered User regular
    I have no problem with Jerry's newsposts, probably because the sheer volume of text allows for greater contextual understanding but agree that some of these side-stories are just too spartan to fully understand what's going on. The most recent Automata was probably the worst - it needed about 3 or 4 more pages to fill in the blanks. This current story is ok so far but we'll see when it reaches its conclusion whether the pattern has been repeated.

    Just do a full (full) comic and only offer it for cash monies - the people will pay!

  • Spoon1Spoon1 Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    From the Part Two thread...
    darkmayo wrote: »
    PiaLotta wrote: »
    Will there be a Lookouts/Eyerewood-comic-book??? Pretty please! <3

    There already is
    https://www.cryptozoic.com/other/lookouts
    I was totally unaware of that but I note that it's not written by Jerry nor illustrated by Mike - which is what I'm wanting.

    Spoon1 on
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    This one (at least) seems fairly easy to follow. She's a guardian of the forest, and the boy has wandered in, wounded. The animals are all "He's an intruder! Killkillkillkill!" and she's all "no, wait just a damn second."

  • ziddersroofurryziddersroofurry Registered User regular
    I don't follow this stuff religiously but I do love it when it shows up. It's a nice break from Tycho and Gabe and from the sorts of stuff they comment on and I love seeing Mike's art progress. When I look at just how far he's come since he started the strip. It's pretty inspiring. Also love the coloring on this-he teams up with some of the most amazing folks.

  • Lingering GrinLingering Grin Registered User regular
    Dear giant tree monster,

    You just got told.

  • MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    Dear giant tree monster,

    You just got told.

    How do you know if he's a tree monster?
    Because he's lion.

  • wonderpugwonderpug Registered User regular
    Re: "WTF is going, am I missing something?"

    If you've ever read Diamond Age or Anathem by Neal Stephenson, you have felt this way. That guy just drops you into a world he never directly explains, but, as the story unfolds, he leaves you clues to infer what is going on in the bigger picture. For me, it adds a real element of exploration to world building experience and I LOVE it.

    Erikson's Gardens of the Moon and sequels are another prime example of this. "Here you are in this completely original new fantasy world! You surely know who all these people and political groups are. Exposition? Backstory? Never heard of them."

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Maybe it's because I listened to it on audiobook, but Diamond Age was actually very descriptive of the surrouding world in a way that (sorry!) Jerry just isn't. In a way Mike's "magic art hand" makes up for much of what Jerry lacks (it's no wonder their collaboration has lasted so long), but I think Jerry should be working on improving his writing the same way that Gabe has recently been working on improving his art.

    That said, I have no problems following this current storyline, possibly because I have read a lot of the side stuff Mike and Jerry write about Lookouts.

    "If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
  • TheCanManTheCanMan GT: Gasman122009 JerseyRegistered User regular
    edited March 2015
    darkmayo wrote: »
    I agree with everyone else here, I love this setting it is really interesting but we get too little a glimpse to really connect with what is going on. We saw the big tree lion/dog thing in a previous one it was healed by the daughter who was going through the change, looks like the daughters come from the same villages as the Lookouts but they are called to the forest for the change, looks like some people like them others not so much (in regards to the Thornwatch that meets her)

    So far in this series we have a lone lookout who is either injured or grieving and lost in the woods, a daughter spies on him and asks him in a round about weird way if he is lost or something, the owl wants him dead for breaking the laws (whatever they may be) and the daughter says he is too young. Big tree lion senses the boy and comes running either to eat or whatever, daughter tells him to pipe down while adults are talking.

    So far not too bad, I have the gist of what is going on but as we have seen in the past there likely will be a quick resolution or it will just stop leaving more questions than answers.

    While I do like the occasional left up to your imagination or mystery vignettes, I often think the artists/writers forget we don't have a window into their minds. What may make sense to them is just a bunch of nonsense and pretty pictures to us. I see it in a bunch of comics/webcomics, the creators get going and forget that we are along for the ride and sometimes we need a bit more information to process what is going on.

    I don't really think it's been very hard to follow what's going on so far. The Lookout is clearly injured with a stomach wound when we first meet him. This wound seems likely to have come from battle with the Tree Lion. It seems that the Lookout had wondered away from the Tree Lion battle after being wounded, fell down at the tree where we first see him, is questioned by the Daughter, and then when the Tree Lion comes looking to finish the job he is told to back off by the Daughter until she finishes with her conversation with the Lookout.

    The only part I find vague so far is the bit about "the laws" from part 2. But I'm assuming that will get some light shown on it in part 4.

    TheCanMan on
  • WhelmedWhelmed Registered User regular
    Three notes right up top: 1) It's impossible to truly critique the comprehensibility of a story while you're still in the middle of it 2) I love the way Jerry writes and the manner in which he tosses words together and gives them new life and meaning and 3) He does not even have to give a single shit about anything I say because he is much more talented than I will ever be.

    But while I understand what Mike Fehlauer was saying, there's a really fine line between "hard" and "obstructionist" with writing. In a news post, it's almost exhilarating to have to puzzle out the meanings, partly because it's not that hard to Google the context if you don't have it, but also because a news post is basically a brain dump, and the inside of someone's brain is never going to be perfectly understood. There's no reason it should be easy.

    When you write a story, though, you make an implicit bargain with your audience that you're going to communicate something intelligible to them, and being too difficult or coy with the writing style can impede this bargain. That's not illegal and no one needs to go to writing jail, but it is frustrating to experience. I'm sure tons of readers could try harder to understand the things they read. I'm sure I could. But writers could also stand to try harder to make the things they write understandable, and the more intelligent the writer, the easier it is to forget to try at all.

  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    TheCanMan wrote: »
    darkmayo wrote: »
    I agree with everyone else here, I love this setting it is really interesting but we get too little a glimpse to really connect with what is going on. We saw the big tree lion/dog thing in a previous one it was healed by the daughter who was going through the change, looks like the daughters come from the same villages as the Lookouts but they are called to the forest for the change, looks like some people like them others not so much (in regards to the Thornwatch that meets her)

    So far in this series we have a lone lookout who is either injured or grieving and lost in the woods, a daughter spies on him and asks him in a round about weird way if he is lost or something, the owl wants him dead for breaking the laws (whatever they may be) and the daughter says he is too young. Big tree lion senses the boy and comes running either to eat or whatever, daughter tells him to pipe down while adults are talking.

    So far not too bad, I have the gist of what is going on but as we have seen in the past there likely will be a quick resolution or it will just stop leaving more questions than answers.

    While I do like the occasional left up to your imagination or mystery vignettes, I often think the artists/writers forget we don't have a window into their minds. What may make sense to them is just a bunch of nonsense and pretty pictures to us. I see it in a bunch of comics/webcomics, the creators get going and forget that we are along for the ride and sometimes we need a bit more information to process what is going on.

    I don't really think it's been very hard to follow what's going on so far. The Lookout is clearly injured with a stomach wound when we first meet him. This wound seems likely to have come from battle with the Tree Lion. It seems that the Lookout had wondered away from the Tree Lion battle after being wounded, fell down at the tree where we first see him, is questioned by the Daughter, and then when the Tree Lion comes looking to finish the job he is told to back off by the Daughter until she finishes with her conversation with the Lookout.

    The only part I find vague so far is the bit about "the laws" from part 2. But I'm assuming that will get some light shown on it in part 4.

    I just zoomed in more on the first comic, I didn't see the red seepage on the top of his shorts to show that it was blood. Without that I thought he was struck with grief, so much so that he was holding himself.

    So that sort of clears up one part, we will see how this resolves, though I am suspecting we are going to be left with more questions.

    I enjoyed the previous Automata, but as someone said earlier, it needed likely another page to flesh out. A wiki or an FAQ on these side stories would be very handy

    darkmayo on
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  • foodlefoodle Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    The lore and backstory for the Lookouts/Eyrewood world is somewhat scattered between the Penny-Arcade comics, news posts, Thornwatch game, and actual comics. It would be good if there were some kind of wiki that brought it all together. However, I do find the Lookouts PA comics reasonably straightforward and understandable.

    The ones that get me are the Automata comics. I always feel like I'm missing a page of the comic or some panels. The story telling in those just seems so choppy. But I still love the world.

    ... and more Sand!!!

    foodle on
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