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Girl nextdoor (NSFW)

WindburnWindburn Registered User regular
edited October 2006 in Artist's Corner
It's been a long time since I posted here. In fact, the last time was around the Shadow of the Colossus contest. I would have resurrected my original thread, but apparently they get purged after so long.

Anyway, every now and then I get the itch to draw something and it basically consumes my life until I scratch it. Now that it's finally (more or less) done, I'd like some feedback. On previous pieces, the majority of critiques posted said my pieces looked "plasticy" and lacked a sense of texture.

Thanks!

Girl.jpg

Girl2.jpg

Girl3.jpg

Girl4.jpg

10/22/06
Girl6.jpg

10/24/06
Girl7.jpg

EDIT: Adjusted her eyes so that she no longer has a cataracts (plus a few other minor tweaks).
EDIT2: See post below.
EDIT3: See post below.[/img]

Windburn on

Posts

  • Sam :)Sam :) Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    A fully frontal face is very tricky to get right IMO but you allmost got it right. You have a slight asymmetry on the forehead and cheeks. Hair needs more definition. The rest looks good to me.

    Sam :) on
  • DMACDMAC Moderator mod
    edited August 2006
    The rule of thumb for facial proportions is that there's an eye's width between the inner corners of the eyes. Right now her eyes look like they're too small/too far apart. The eye on the left (her right) especially looks like it's too far away from the bridge of the nose.

    DMAC on
  • WindburnWindburn Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    Thanks for the feedback.

    I updated the image with larger/closer together eyes.

    Sam :)
    I tried to symmetrize (I don't think that's a word) the cheeks. On the forehead, are you talking about the hairline or skull structure?

    Windburn on
  • Sam :)Sam :) Registered User regular
    edited August 2006
    well, both - the right (my right) cheek bone seems pushed higher up than the left one - it's probably just the contour of the cheek that needs trimming. Same deal on the left side of the forehead.

    Sam :) on
  • Ape2001Ape2001 Otaku Registered User
    edited August 2006
    The contour of her face seemed still kind of "bruised" to me. But I didn't really know how to describe it so I edited it :|
    Sry for manipulating your pic, the rest of it looks so awesome :^:

    Girl3-byWindburn-facelift.jpg

    See what I mean?
    ...and the eyes are still a bit too far apart :|

    Ape2001 on
    - SF42012 Gen replays and anime trailers http://www.youtube.com/user/derBene
    - great animation focused website http://www.catsuka.com
  • WindburnWindburn Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Thanks for the advice, everyone.

    I updated the original post with a new version that hopefully addresses some of your suggestions.

    Ape2001
    I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "bruised." I tried to tone down some of the contrast so that the shadows looked less like bruises. Is it better now?

    Sam :)
    I trimmed down the (her) right jaw and deangulated the left cheek bone. Does she look a little more symmetrical now (realizing that we are picking up a little of the left side of the face that isn't visible on the right)?
    I haven't reworked the forehead or hairline yet, but I plan to.

    Thanks again for your help. Please keep the advice coming.

    Windburn on
  • Ape2001Ape2001 Otaku Registered User
    edited September 2006
    I chose "bruised" because the spots looked like swollen to me.
    Anyway, I would say it's better now! Really good work :D

    Ape2001 on
    - SF42012 Gen replays and anime trailers http://www.youtube.com/user/derBene
    - great animation focused website http://www.catsuka.com
  • DuckM4nDuckM4n Registered User
    edited September 2006
    Either the head is too small or the shoulders are too wide, too manly.

    DuckM4n on
  • M2tMM2tM Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Give that hair some love. Her right (our left) hand looks like it has 3 fingers and a thumb as well...

    Otherwise this has great potential, nice rendering for sure. Just some skeletal issues.

    M2tM on
    "We can be richer than industry as long as we know that there are things that we don't really need." -Willy Mason
  • WindburnWindburn Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Ape2001
    Thanks!

    DuckM4n
    I think this may be more an issue of personal preferance, but I'll keep your critique in mind. If others agree, please speak up. She's supposed to be attractive (realizing, of course, that everyone's tastes are somewhat different).

    M2tM
    You took the words right off my to-do list. She really does have 4 fingers, but the way its drawn right now, that's not at all obvious. Other than the right hand, what other skeletal issues do you see?
    Thanks for the compliments, as well.


    P.S. For those interested, just so you don't think I've abandoned the piece, I won't be able to work on it for at least a week (exam time).

    Windburn on
  • DeusfauxDeusfaux Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    somethin goin on with her left shoulder... sticks out a lot

    her right breast seems to lack the definition or "pop" that her left has in the image

    her left hip has a strange defintion to it,... almost looks like a tan line left from a bikini or something weird with the bone there

    Deusfaux on
  • WindburnWindburn Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    Deusfaux
    Just so I'm clear, do you mean her left or our left? Her left has some odd muscle definition that I plan to correct, if that's what you're referring to.

    The right breast is being shadowed by her right arm, but I could probably draw it out a little bit more.

    What you're seeing in her left hip is the iliac crest, but it's probably overly defined. I'll tone it done some.

    Thanks for the suggestions!

    Windburn on
  • DeusfauxDeusfaux Registered User regular
    edited September 2006
    yup her left.

    sounds good!

    Deusfaux on
  • WindburnWindburn Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    So one week turned into 4...

    I finally manged to carve out some time to work on it this weekend and hopefully addressed some of the suggestions.

    New version:
    Shortened left eyebrow
    Smoothed her right neck angle
    Defined the upper lip
    Fixed right hand (4 fingers!)
    Smoothed the left deltoid
    Drew out right breast
    Toned down iliac crest
    Deshadowed the nose
    Gave the hair some love

    Thanks again for the feedback. Keep it coming!

    Windburn on
  • LlyLly Registered User
    edited October 2006
    erm



    edit: oh i SEE. You changed the original ... hehe my bad.

    edit 2. her forarms are different sizes and both look too airbrushy smooth. Also on her hip there is a weird mark that looks like someone has photoshopped out a thong, if you can see what i mean.


    Looks really good apart from that though.

    Lly on
  • WindburnWindburn Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Lly wrote:
    erm



    edit: oh i SEE. You changed the original ... hehe my bad.

    :D

    That's how I've updated this thread previously. Would people prefer updates to be new posts? I figured it would be kinder to not have to load scroll through more and more pictures everytime the thread is viewed, but... <shrug>

    Windburn on
  • Ape2001Ape2001 Otaku Registered User
    edited October 2006
    It's hard now for me to discover errors ^^ Had to crop her head off and looked at the rest upside down:

    I'd say her right wrist could use more shading as could the right upper arm, these spots look still pretty flat for me.

    What itches me still is her right upper corner of her face. This bump looks just out of place...better use a pic:
    Girl6byWindburn.jpg Talking of this left part of the picture.

    Ape2001 on
    - SF42012 Gen replays and anime trailers http://www.youtube.com/user/derBene
    - great animation focused website http://www.catsuka.com
  • GrifterGrifter BermudaModerator mod
    edited October 2006
    It's usually good to see progression since we don't know what a lot of people are talking about from the original post.

    Grifter on
  • WindburnWindburn Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Lly wrote:

    edit 2. her forarms are different sizes and both look too airbrushy smooth. Also on her hip there is a weird mark that looks like someone has photoshopped out a thong, if you can see what i mean.


    Looks really good apart from that though.

    I see what you mean about the forearms.

    However, could you be a little more specific or do a quick paintover on the hip to show me what mark you're referring to?

    Thanks!

    Windburn on
  • LlyLly Registered User
    edited October 2006
    Windburn wrote:
    Lly wrote:
    erm



    edit: oh i SEE. You changed the original ... hehe my bad.

    :D

    That's how I've updated this thread previously. Would people prefer updates to be new posts? I figured it would be kinder to not have to load scroll through more and more pictures everytime the thread is viewed, but... <shrug>

    I like to see earlier versions so i can see the progress.

    edit: damnit grif

    Lly on
  • LlyLly Registered User
    edited October 2006
    Windburn wrote:
    Lly wrote:

    edit 2. her forarms are different sizes and both look too airbrushy smooth. Also on her hip there is a weird mark that looks like someone has photoshopped out a thong, if you can see what i mean.


    Looks really good apart from that though.

    I see what you mean about the forearms.

    However, could you be a little more specific or do a quick paintover on the hip to show me what mark you're referring to?

    Thanks!

    Sure thang!

    Girl6.jpg

    Lly on
  • TimTheSlothTimTheSloth Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    it may be just me but he head seems a little to small and also a little to far back from her body. It's hard to render something natural with direct front lighting (or bottom front?), this has definately gotten a lot better. It also seems like from that pose we should be able to see some ear on her. Now that I look at it more her left knuckle doesnt seem to match up with the others either.

    TimTheSloth on
    redtidesig1.jpg
  • M2tMM2tM Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    hands are much better, hair still needs a little more lovin'

    It's tough becaues you're going for photorealistic and hair is just a huge beast to conquer. Good luck and good work so far.

    When I said skeletal issues, I meant that the whole thing was well rendered, the skin was appropriately treated, but that the anatomy was a little odd in some places, but just enough that it's hard to put your finger on it.

    The hips may be too narrow or the shoulders too wide, I'm not 100% sure about that, the left and right forearms are indeed different sizes and the elbows are a little too cleft. The left hand (her right) is not nearly as strong as the right (structurally) in a few ways. The thumb and the two fingers next to it are a little awkward probably partially because of the entire wrist area on that hand being a little off and that hand's perspective isn't as good as the other. Also, I don't know if that neck/head is of proper proportion.

    Get a female friend to pose as such, take a picture and overlay it. Don't use it to trace, just to get a sense of scale.

    M2tM on
    "We can be richer than industry as long as we know that there are things that we don't really need." -Willy Mason
  • New York Rock ExchangeNew York Rock Exchange Registered User
    edited October 2006
    M2tM wrote:
    The hips may be too narrow or the shoulders too wide, I'm not 100% sure about that...

    Holy crap, I wasn't able to pinpoint anything wrong with the picture until you pointed that out. The shoulder on our left, in particular, seems too long and angular.

    edit: Also, am I crazy or is her belly button too small?

    New York Rock Exchange on
  • WindburnWindburn Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    I haven't addressed all the suggestions yet, but I plan to. In this update I reworked the right hand (again) by changing the angle of the metacarpels and, hopefully, adding some perspective that feels more natural with the position of the arm. The wrist was also tweaked and some more tonal range was added to the forearm (so it's not as "flat" anymore). Finally, I reworked the shading around the iliac crest so that it looks less like a bad tan line.

    Concerning the comparative size of the forearms, I did some quick measurements and, roughly accounting for the perspective, they're similar. However, they still look off to me (damn I hate how when something wrong is pointed out, that's all you can see). Any specific suggestions here?

    Girl7.jpg

    Thanks again for all the feedback.

    Windburn on
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2006
    The forearms look ok, given that she's holding her hands and arms differently. Her shoulders are still foobared, though. They're both pretty wide, but the one on our left (her right) is just goddamn huge. It's very lopsided and it's bringing down your whole drawing. I mean, you can see, can't you, that they're totally asymmetrical?

    As for the width in general, I have pretty broad shoulders, and I put my hands up like that, I've got no more than an inch between my little finger and the edge of my shoulder. Inch and a half, tops. The one on the right is just on the big side of believable. The one on the left is ridiculous.

    tynic on
  • RyeRye Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    Here's a crappy paintover I did in photoshop in 2 minutes with a mouse.

    Girl7.jpgGirl7drawover.jpg

    When you have them right next to each other, you can see how much less "coat-hanger" her shoulders look like. I REALLY think it helps the pose too.

    On my paintover, I think I overexxagerated the muscles over the shoulder, but oh well... Maybe she's a bodybuilder? I think this is what Tynic meant about the shoulders though. Don't believe my paintover though, just work on it yourself and I'm sure it'll turn out fine.

    Rye on
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