The Growth and Future of Pinny Arcade - Booth Etiquette, Money, and Trading

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Posts

  • Shadowscars22Shadowscars22 Registered User regular
    When you want to find a way to talk to « The Pin Trader » guy, it’s quite easy – I’m right here 

    I’ve always appreciated feedback for what I do, and I also am open to discussing how I do things when it appears unclear / if you’re uncertain how I do things.

    My Grab from the Bag thingy: Before PAX, I prepare a bag of individually wrapped pins, with the following features: Pins I have large amounts of OR Pins I purchased specifically for the bag (Prime and South sets for example); They’re wrapped so you can’t feel them, and it’s one way (The ONLY way actually) I can get my twitter and facebook pages known to people at PAX.

    I have a picture of what was in the bag for East, I could share it, but it’s mainly Prime pins, South pins, staff pins, one Carl pin, Adventure Time pins, and about 20 to 25% “Fodder” pins. I tell my guys (my guys, cause I had no voice left at PAX East) to go in lines and offer people to give up one pin they don’t like, and draw one from the bag, which contains pins from the previous PAXen. Most give me fodder pins, some give me ok pins on par with what’s in the bag, rarely they give something like a East 2014 pin or something, and none so far gave me anything cooler than say a East Garruk or a South Moonrise pin.

    Most of those get re-wrapped and put in the bag – after all, my goal is to promote my FB and Twitter – but some pins I keep because I am low on stock for some reason (I had 0 Twitch pin from Catsby and Twitch, so I kept all I was given). I’ve not gathered LE pins, Leeroy pins, AUS pins, by doing that – and I would look at the guy strangely and ask him if he’s sure a few times before I take it anyway. Oh, yeah – at this East, at the pin trading event, everything that was given to me wasn’t put back in the bag, but used as fodder with the staff to get 4 of each of the staff pins. That’s a lot of pins, and I couldn’t afford to bring 120+ fodder pins.

    I know some people won’t believe me, I don’t really care, I wanted to share with you exactly the inner working of my Bag thingy, so that if you have ideas, or suggestions, you have the whole picture, not just a fragment of it. I’m all ears (eyes, maybe, since this is a forum). Those who know me personally at PAX know there is no mischief intended, and the benefits for me are getting myself known, and “equalizing” my pins stock.

    Visit my website, thepintrader.com, the first Pinny Arcade store!
    Chubby Bunnysudopoop
  • silrnsilrn Fairfax, VARegistered User regular
    Also, and I heard this second hand, Khoo said he wants to stop "completionists" and give more feeling to the pins, but what is the purpose of that? If you have all these people totally into what you're doing, why would you want to push them away?

    While the point that PA does not factor completionists into their calculations is undoubtedly the correct reason, or at least the closest to the truth. I have no doubt that they are aware of the fact that some decisions on Pin distribution is going to upset the completionists. That being said, Khoo and the PA Staff, as well as most of the pin community want this hobby to get to as large a community as possible. To be perfectly blunt, completionists are contrary to that goal (and this is coming from one of the aforementioned completionists). To date we know of 241 Pinny Arcade pins, 240 of which are in circulation. Not playing around with actual print runs, we know for a FACT that this represents more than a quarter of a million pins in circulation. Let that number circulate a little bit, just with bare minimum print runs, it means 243,915 pins (minimum 1000 print run + known limited edition print runs) are currently in circulation. For every completionist in the hobby, that takes 240 pins out of circulation.

    TL;DR version - Being a completionist is going to get harder and harder, and is going to be diminishing group potentially extinct group eventually. So better to make the choice to go for the pins you like, and reduce your stress sooner!

    Shadowscars22Lazorz
  • dmosineedmosinee Davenport, IARegistered User regular
    silrn wrote: »
    To date we know of 241 Pinny Arcade pins, 240 of which are in circulation.

    Which pin is not in circulation? Dark Place Brian?

    Digital Lanyard, I love trades - https://www.pinnypals.com/pals/dmosinee
    http://pinmash.info - Two pins enter, one pins leaves... then the other pin leaves with a lower Elo rating
  • Chubby BunnyChubby Bunny Regal Pocket Monster Boston, MARegistered User regular
    edited March 2015
    When you want to find a way to talk to « The Pin Trader » guy, it’s quite easy – I’m right here 

    I’ve always appreciated feedback for what I do, and I also am open to discussing how I do things when it appears unclear / if you’re uncertain how I do things.

    My Grab from the Bag thingy: Before PAX, I prepare a bag of individually wrapped pins, with the following features: Pins I have large amounts of OR Pins I purchased specifically for the bag (Prime and South sets for example); They’re wrapped so you can’t feel them, and it’s one way (The ONLY way actually) I can get my twitter and facebook pages known to people at PAX.

    I have a picture of what was in the bag for East, I could share it, but it’s mainly Prime pins, South pins, staff pins, one Carl pin, Adventure Time pins, and about 20 to 25% “Fodder” pins. I tell my guys (my guys, cause I had no voice left at PAX East) to go in lines and offer people to give up one pin they don’t like, and draw one from the bag, which contains pins from the previous PAXen. Most give me fodder pins, some give me ok pins on par with what’s in the bag, rarely they give something like a East 2014 pin or something, and none so far gave me anything cooler than say a East Garruk or a South Moonrise pin.

    Most of those get re-wrapped and put in the bag – after all, my goal is to promote my FB and Twitter – but some pins I keep because I am low on stock for some reason (I had 0 Twitch pin from Catsby and Twitch, so I kept all I was given). I’ve not gathered LE pins, Leeroy pins, AUS pins, by doing that – and I would look at the guy strangely and ask him if he’s sure a few times before I take it anyway. Oh, yeah – at this East, at the pin trading event, everything that was given to me wasn’t put back in the bag, but used as fodder with the staff to get 4 of each of the staff pins. That’s a lot of pins, and I couldn’t afford to bring 120+ fodder pins.

    I know some people won’t believe me, I don’t really care, I wanted to share with you exactly the inner working of my Bag thingy, so that if you have ideas, or suggestions, you have the whole picture, not just a fragment of it. I’m all ears (eyes, maybe, since this is a forum). Those who know me personally at PAX know there is no mischief intended, and the benefits for me are getting myself known, and “equalizing” my pins stock.

    @Shadowscars22 First off, thanks for posting here. It's great that you're trying to be transparent about your process. That said, you/your guys tend to leave a sour mood in the lines you work your way into, because what ends up happening is (as I've seen over the last 2 PAXen):

    - Guy with the bag approaches a bunch of people with pins, explains the game
    - Newer people jump at the game and drop a pin they just got from a booth (i.e. they don't break their sets or use a pin they paid for)
    - Newer people draw a pin from a PAX set or a staff pin
    - Guy with the bag either moves onto the next guy or quickly exits the line
    - Everyone around the people who played the game go quiet, because no one wants to tell them that they just got hustled (watching someone trade a Nemony or Overwatch for a South Gabe doesn't feel good)

    Most pinthusiasts avoid your game completely because they know to wait for the pinny event on Saturday, where the games are much better. Your game offers convenience (the game comes to you!) but a lot of us *feel* it lacks integrity, even if you claim it doesn't (because you include some good pins). I've given a lot of thought to your game and would love to see any of the following changes:

    - The guy holding the bag also promotes the pin trading event on Saturday night (hey, we're all here for the same stuff, so why not promote other pin-related events?)
    - The guy holding the bag allows 1 redo per person per day (they can't get their original pin back, but maybe they can get another try if they're clearly dissatisfied)
    - The guy holding the bag allows players to draw 2 pins and choose one (this brings the game more in line with the games presented at the Saturday event, AND the game comes to you, so now it's really worth talking about, even hoping for!)

    In the end, it's your choice on how you want to spread your brand name. I think that the in-person game *could* be a great thing for the community, bringing pin-related entertainment to long lines and spreading the message of the Pinny Arcade community in a positive way. In my *****opinion*****, it doesn't do that currently.

    Chubby Bunny on
    Battle.net: ChubbyBunny#1452 | Steam: Bunny1248 | Xbox Live: CBunny1

    My Digital Pin Lanyard || PAX East '13, '14, '15, '19 | PAX South '15
    Shadowscars22
  • gacbmmmlgacbmmml Registered User regular
    Regarding Rarity of Pins:
    - I feel that any pin you can't purchase is more rare than every other pin. Here is my personal rarity list from least rare to most rare with room for fluctuation based on # of pins printed, randomness of obtaining a pin, where the pin can be obtained (AUS pins being more rare than PRIME pins, for example), etc...
    • Pins you can purchase online at Penny Arcade, that are not Limited Edition. (core set, lookouts, killer instinct, etc.)
    • Pins you can purchase online from Partner websites. (naughty dog, talent pipes, etc.)
    • Pins you can purchase on the show floor from a Partner. (supergiant, team fortress, etc.)
    • Pins you can purchase on the show floor from a Partner after participating in an easy game. (behemoth, magic the gathering, etc.)
    • Pins you can purchase online at Penny Arcade, that ARE Limited Edition. (hannah, carl, new years 2015, etc.)
    • Pins you can purchase at the main Merch Booth that are not Limited Edition. (4-pack pins, etc.)
    • Pins you can purchase at the main Merch Booth that are ARE Limited Edition. (polygon, shields, etc.)
    • Pins you can purchase via a Kickstarter. (DLC, katie rice, etc.).
    • Pins you can obtain on the show floor by standing in line to play a demo(s). (moonrise, overwatch, the next level, the order).
    • Pins you can obtain on the show floor by accomplishing a specific task in a limited amount of time. (be first in the twitch line, find leeroy jenkins, win golden overwatch)

    Note #1: Now, I know what you're thinking... DLC is the rarest and most valuable, and it is... BUT if Penny Arcade were to do another Kickstarter with a DLC v2 pin, it would not be hard to obtain if you were quick. What makes the original DLC the rarest is the fact that not many people were collecting pins back when the Kickstarter was going down. I personally backed the Kickstarter, but at a different reward level ($100 instead of $150). If I had known how popular our sport would become, I would have made different choices, but alas... here we are.
    Note #2: Even though the moonrise pin and the overwatch pin are in the same category, I'd rank the overwatch pin as slightly more rare only because the line was capped nearly 100% of the time, making it harder for the pin collector to obtain it on their own.

    Anyhoo, GENERALLY SPEAKING, I think my ordering rings true. I would trade a Carl for a Polygon pin no problem. :)

    Thoughts?



  • HingoHingo Minneapolis, MNRegistered User regular
    gacbmmml wrote: »
    Anyhoo, GENERALLY SPEAKING, I think my ordering rings true. I would trade a Carl for a Polygon pin no problem. :)

    Thoughts?
    And I would take that trade, hence the beauty of this hobby. The PAX South Polygon is valued around 40% higher than Carl on Ebay (on average, as of today), but I loves me some Automata.

    Pins for trade!
    2015 PAX Prime Omeganaut (I will forever hate Katamari)
  • Shadowscars22Shadowscars22 Registered User regular
    When you want to find a way to talk to « The Pin Trader » guy, it’s quite easy – I’m right here 

    I’ve always appreciated feedback for what I do, and I also am open to discussing how I do things when it appears unclear / if you’re uncertain how I do things.

    My Grab from the Bag thingy: Before PAX, I prepare a bag of individually wrapped pins, with the following features: Pins I have large amounts of OR Pins I purchased specifically for the bag (Prime and South sets for example); They’re wrapped so you can’t feel them, and it’s one way (The ONLY way actually) I can get my twitter and facebook pages known to people at PAX.

    I have a picture of what was in the bag for East, I could share it, but it’s mainly Prime pins, South pins, staff pins, one Carl pin, Adventure Time pins, and about 20 to 25% “Fodder” pins. I tell my guys (my guys, cause I had no voice left at PAX East) to go in lines and offer people to give up one pin they don’t like, and draw one from the bag, which contains pins from the previous PAXen. Most give me fodder pins, some give me ok pins on par with what’s in the bag, rarely they give something like a East 2014 pin or something, and none so far gave me anything cooler than say a East Garruk or a South Moonrise pin.

    Most of those get re-wrapped and put in the bag – after all, my goal is to promote my FB and Twitter – but some pins I keep because I am low on stock for some reason (I had 0 Twitch pin from Catsby and Twitch, so I kept all I was given). I’ve not gathered LE pins, Leeroy pins, AUS pins, by doing that – and I would look at the guy strangely and ask him if he’s sure a few times before I take it anyway. Oh, yeah – at this East, at the pin trading event, everything that was given to me wasn’t put back in the bag, but used as fodder with the staff to get 4 of each of the staff pins. That’s a lot of pins, and I couldn’t afford to bring 120+ fodder pins.

    I know some people won’t believe me, I don’t really care, I wanted to share with you exactly the inner working of my Bag thingy, so that if you have ideas, or suggestions, you have the whole picture, not just a fragment of it. I’m all ears (eyes, maybe, since this is a forum). Those who know me personally at PAX know there is no mischief intended, and the benefits for me are getting myself known, and “equalizing” my pins stock.

    @Shadowscars22 First off, thanks for posting here. It's great that you're trying to be transparent about your process. That said, you/your guys tend to leave a sour mood in the lines you work your way into, because what ends up happening is (as I've seen over the last 2 PAXen):

    - Guy with the bag approaches a bunch of people with pins, explains the game
    - Newer people jump at the game and drop a pin they just got from a booth (i.e. they don't break their sets or use a pin they paid for)
    - Newer people draw a pin from a PAX set or a staff pin
    - Guy with the bag either moves onto the next guy or quickly exits the line
    - Everyone around the people who played the game go quiet, because no one wants to tell them that they just got hustled (watching someone trade a Nemony or Overwatch for a South Gabe doesn't feel good)

    Most pinthusiasts avoid your game completely because they know to wait for the pinny event on Saturday, where the games are much better. Your game offers convenience (the game comes to you!) but a lot of us *feel* it lacks integrity, even if you claim it doesn't (because you include some good pins). I've given a lot of thought to your game and would love to see any of the following changes:

    - The guy holding the bag also promotes the pin trading event on Saturday night (hey, we're all here for the same stuff, so why not promote other pin-related events?)
    - The guy holding the bag allows 1 redo per person per day (they can't get their original pin back, but maybe they can get another try if they're clearly dissatisfied)
    - The guy holding the bag allows players to draw 2 pins and choose one (this brings the game more in line with the games presented at the Saturday event, AND the game comes to you, so now it's really worth talking about, even hoping for!)

    In the end, it's your choice on how you want to spread your brand name. I think that the in-person game *could* be a great thing for the community, bringing pin-related entertainment to long lines and spreading the message of the Pinny Arcade community in a positive way. In my *****opinion*****, it doesn't do that currently.

    Thanks a lot for your input!

    The way I was seeing it, being a collector myself is more "Okay, I've got a handful of trade fodder pins aside for the PIn Trading event, but this guy offers me to give any of those and draw a random pin - wow, I can only get something better, or another fodder which I'm going to give away anyway!". You'd be surprised how little Nemony (and no Overwatch certainly) I was given - and that Nemony (along with 1 or 2 of mine) returned to the bag anyway :)

    That being said, I never thought about letting people draw two and pick one. I didn't want people to just be able to re-draw until they got the rare Carl or East 2013 pin, because that's unfair to others, but drawing two and picking one seems a lot of fun, both for the player and for me! I'll definitely look into doing that for next time. Great idea!

    All in all, to be honest also, I always got positive feedback from the people playing the game - never one anyone seemed unhappy of the outcome, only those not playing but watching seem to complain - and, well, they're not playing, so you gotta learn to take some and leave some when dealing with crowd feedback :) Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, I want nothing but the community to florish into a gigantic hobby, like when I was collecting stamps when I was a 7 year-old sharing my hobby with thousands and thousands of people before me and after me!

    Visit my website, thepintrader.com, the first Pinny Arcade store!
    Chubby Bunny
  • silrnsilrn Fairfax, VARegistered User regular
    dmosinee wrote: »
    Which pin is not in circulation? Dark Place Brian?

    Yup, that's the one we know of, but isn't out yet.

  • Chubby BunnyChubby Bunny Regal Pocket Monster Boston, MARegistered User regular
    edited March 2015
    When you want to find a way to talk to « The Pin Trader » guy, it’s quite easy – I’m right here 

    I’ve always appreciated feedback for what I do, and I also am open to discussing how I do things when it appears unclear / if you’re uncertain how I do things.

    My Grab from the Bag thingy: Before PAX, I prepare a bag of individually wrapped pins, with the following features: Pins I have large amounts of OR Pins I purchased specifically for the bag (Prime and South sets for example); They’re wrapped so you can’t feel them, and it’s one way (The ONLY way actually) I can get my twitter and facebook pages known to people at PAX.

    I have a picture of what was in the bag for East, I could share it, but it’s mainly Prime pins, South pins, staff pins, one Carl pin, Adventure Time pins, and about 20 to 25% “Fodder” pins. I tell my guys (my guys, cause I had no voice left at PAX East) to go in lines and offer people to give up one pin they don’t like, and draw one from the bag, which contains pins from the previous PAXen. Most give me fodder pins, some give me ok pins on par with what’s in the bag, rarely they give something like a East 2014 pin or something, and none so far gave me anything cooler than say a East Garruk or a South Moonrise pin.

    Most of those get re-wrapped and put in the bag – after all, my goal is to promote my FB and Twitter – but some pins I keep because I am low on stock for some reason (I had 0 Twitch pin from Catsby and Twitch, so I kept all I was given). I’ve not gathered LE pins, Leeroy pins, AUS pins, by doing that – and I would look at the guy strangely and ask him if he’s sure a few times before I take it anyway. Oh, yeah – at this East, at the pin trading event, everything that was given to me wasn’t put back in the bag, but used as fodder with the staff to get 4 of each of the staff pins. That’s a lot of pins, and I couldn’t afford to bring 120+ fodder pins.

    I know some people won’t believe me, I don’t really care, I wanted to share with you exactly the inner working of my Bag thingy, so that if you have ideas, or suggestions, you have the whole picture, not just a fragment of it. I’m all ears (eyes, maybe, since this is a forum). Those who know me personally at PAX know there is no mischief intended, and the benefits for me are getting myself known, and “equalizing” my pins stock.

    @Shadowscars22 First off, thanks for posting here. It's great that you're trying to be transparent about your process. That said, you/your guys tend to leave a sour mood in the lines you work your way into, because what ends up happening is (as I've seen over the last 2 PAXen):

    - Guy with the bag approaches a bunch of people with pins, explains the game
    - Newer people jump at the game and drop a pin they just got from a booth (i.e. they don't break their sets or use a pin they paid for)
    - Newer people draw a pin from a PAX set or a staff pin
    - Guy with the bag either moves onto the next guy or quickly exits the line
    - Everyone around the people who played the game go quiet, because no one wants to tell them that they just got hustled (watching someone trade a Nemony or Overwatch for a South Gabe doesn't feel good)

    Most pinthusiasts avoid your game completely because they know to wait for the pinny event on Saturday, where the games are much better. Your game offers convenience (the game comes to you!) but a lot of us *feel* it lacks integrity, even if you claim it doesn't (because you include some good pins). I've given a lot of thought to your game and would love to see any of the following changes:

    - The guy holding the bag also promotes the pin trading event on Saturday night (hey, we're all here for the same stuff, so why not promote other pin-related events?)
    - The guy holding the bag allows 1 redo per person per day (they can't get their original pin back, but maybe they can get another try if they're clearly dissatisfied)
    - The guy holding the bag allows players to draw 2 pins and choose one (this brings the game more in line with the games presented at the Saturday event, AND the game comes to you, so now it's really worth talking about, even hoping for!)

    In the end, it's your choice on how you want to spread your brand name. I think that the in-person game *could* be a great thing for the community, bringing pin-related entertainment to long lines and spreading the message of the Pinny Arcade community in a positive way. In my *****opinion*****, it doesn't do that currently.

    Thanks a lot for your input!

    The way I was seeing it, being a collector myself is more "Okay, I've got a handful of trade fodder pins aside for the PIn Trading event, but this guy offers me to give any of those and draw a random pin - wow, I can only get something better, or another fodder which I'm going to give away anyway!". You'd be surprised how little Nemony (and no Overwatch certainly) I was given - and that Nemony (along with 1 or 2 of mine) returned to the bag anyway :)

    That being said, I never thought about letting people draw two and pick one. I didn't want people to just be able to re-draw until they got the rare Carl or East 2013 pin, because that's unfair to others, but drawing two and picking one seems a lot of fun, both for the player and for me! I'll definitely look into doing that for next time. Great idea!

    All in all, to be honest also, I always got positive feedback from the people playing the game - never one anyone seemed unhappy of the outcome, only those not playing but watching seem to complain - and, well, they're not playing, so you gotta learn to take some and leave some when dealing with crowd feedback :) Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, I want nothing but the community to florish into a gigantic hobby, like when I was collecting stamps when I was a 7 year-old sharing my hobby with thousands and thousands of people before me and after me!

    @Shadowscars22 Thanks a lot for being so forthright and positive about this feedback, it's great to see that we all want the same thing. I think your game has the potential to cause a lot of much-needed excitement and happy moments in lines and would be a great vehicle for spreading the message about Pinny Arcade in general and the trading events specifically (if you choose to do that). Either way, your comments are appreciated. I've edited the OP accordingly, just for posterity.

    Chubby Bunny on
    Battle.net: ChubbyBunny#1452 | Steam: Bunny1248 | Xbox Live: CBunny1

    My Digital Pin Lanyard || PAX East '13, '14, '15, '19 | PAX South '15
    Shadowscars22
  • gn0xgn0x Arizona, USARegistered User regular
    Does PA discourage vendors from having official "pin-trading" areas of their booths? At BlizzCon, they had a very successful, always busy, section of pin-traders. And they had a system of trading rare pins, for rarer pins, for even more rare pins. It would be neat to be able to trade Blizz Pinny pins (think about being able to trade an ETC or Iron Horde for a Leeroy or Hearthstone, or viceversa. Maybe trade "any 2 Blizz Pinny" for a golden Overwatch. Something.

  • PedroAsaniPedroAsani Brotherhood of the Squirrel [Prime]Registered User regular
    gn0x wrote: »
    Does PA discourage vendors from having official "pin-trading" areas of their booths? At BlizzCon, they had a very successful, always busy, section of pin-traders. And they had a system of trading rare pins, for rarer pins, for even more rare pins. It would be neat to be able to trade Blizz Pinny pins (think about being able to trade an ETC or Iron Horde for a Leeroy or Hearthstone, or viceversa. Maybe trade "any 2 Blizz Pinny" for a golden Overwatch. Something.

    Just the opposite. Provided you aren't blocking a walkway, trading is encouraged.

    jaberwockynmt
  • pvp_pandapvp_panda Registered User regular
    Adding my two cents about the Pintrader bag game. I've never felt like it was a scam. From my perspective it's like any carnival or casino game where I understand that the house has a slight edge and I'm more likely to get a low value pin than a LE pin. I don't see the act of taking the pin you give and not putting it into the bag as something malicious. It would be terrible to toss a pin into the bag without packaging and then try to get another one of it. Imagine all the scratched pins.

    I wouldn't play it and wouldn't recommend playing it just from an expected value perspective. However, I think it's a fun game and appreciate it's existence.

  • sudopoopsudopoop seattle, usaRegistered User regular
    For reference, I was the lucky guy who got the East 2013 pin from the bag at south :)

    dmosineepvp_pandaShadowscars22Capt WasabiChubby Bunny
  • Chubby BunnyChubby Bunny Regal Pocket Monster Boston, MARegistered User regular
    edited March 2015
    pvp_panda wrote: »
    Adding my two cents about the Pintrader bag game. I've never felt like it was a scam. From my perspective it's like any carnival or casino game where I understand that the house has a slight edge and I'm more likely to get a low value pin than a LE pin. I don't see the act of taking the pin you give and not putting it into the bag as something malicious. It would be terrible to toss a pin into the bag without packaging and then try to get another one of it. Imagine all the scratched pins.

    I wouldn't play it and wouldn't recommend playing it just from an expected value perspective. However, I think it's a fun game and appreciate it's existence.

    If we're not considering value at all, I completely agree that the game is fun and a welcome addition, but the people who watch the game get played *do* consider value, and that's what sours the mood. The problem is a lot of the people playing are putting in pins they got "for free" (expo floor pins) to get a pin they could've easily gotten at the pin trading events for a much less 'valuable' (i.e. fodder) pin. To the educated bystander (and I've talked to many), the game **feels** like a scam. After @Shadowscars22 's reply, it's clear that the game is a vehicle for advertising and he's willing to make changes to make the experience more positive; after all, his brand name is attached to that experience.

    I think we can both agree that at least some of the happiness you get from trading comes from getting a pin you want for a pin you're willing to let go. The game currently doesn't give you that, but it can:
    That being said, I never thought about letting people draw two and pick one. I didn't want people to just be able to re-draw until they got the rare Carl or East 2013 pin, because that's unfair to others, but drawing two and picking one seems a lot of fun, both for the player and for me! I'll definitely look into doing that for next time. Great idea!

    This change to the game is actually massive. It effectively "doubles" the players chances of getting a good pin, but ALSO lets them see the pins and pick one they'd like. You're not giving up a known quantity for a bad *chance* at something better anymore. You get to hold two pins, look at them, and pick one. That's a good feeling. Will thepintrader.com lose a little more money? Sure. But now the game brings with it a lot of positive things, gets people excited, and every pin still advertises the website. It's a win for everyone, in my opinion.

    Either way, it's good to know that you don't think it feels like a scam. I think it's important for @Shadowscars22 to hear that too. :) I'm just conveying the thoughts of the people I've talked to about the game.

    edit - The default smiley :) looks pretty condescending to me, but I'm being sincere. If I was a business owner (I'm not), I'd care about positive feedback as much as negative, and he should feel good about having a game that some (maybe even most) people already enjoy.

    Chubby Bunny on
    Battle.net: ChubbyBunny#1452 | Steam: Bunny1248 | Xbox Live: CBunny1

    My Digital Pin Lanyard || PAX East '13, '14, '15, '19 | PAX South '15
    fishfishmonkeyhatShadowscars22pvp_panda
  • BekerBeker Child's Play Program Director SeattleRegistered User, Penny Arcade Staff regular
    gacbmmml wrote: »
    • Pins you can purchase online at Penny Arcade, that are not Limited Edition. (core set, lookouts, killer instinct, etc.)
    • Pins you can purchase online from Partner websites. (naughty dog, talent pipes, etc.)
    • Pins you can purchase on the show floor from a Partner. (supergiant, team fortress, etc.)
    • Pins you can purchase on the show floor from a Partner after participating in an easy game. (behemoth, magic the gathering, etc.)
    • Pins you can purchase online at Penny Arcade, that ARE Limited Edition. (hannah, carl, new years 2015, etc.)
    • Pins you can purchase at the main Merch Booth that are not Limited Edition. (4-pack pins, etc.)
    • Pins you can purchase at the main Merch Booth that are ARE Limited Edition. (polygon, shields, etc.)
    • Pins you can purchase via a Kickstarter. (DLC, katie rice, etc.).
    • Pins you can obtain on the show floor by standing in line to play a demo(s). (moonrise, overwatch, the next level, the order).
    • Pins you can obtain on the show floor by accomplishing a specific task in a limited amount of time. (be first in the twitch line, find leeroy jenkins, win golden overwatch)

    Anyhoo, GENERALLY SPEAKING, I think my ordering rings true. I would trade a Carl for a Polygon pin no problem. :)

    Thoughts?
    So you would put the Age of Empires pin in the second most rare category? I think its a bit more complicated then that, but to each their own.

    -Beker/Erick
    gQPRxvs.png
    Shadowscars22QumadenHijumpbrettness37flasheLazorzThunderous_Tfishfishmonkeyhat
  • fishfishmonkeyhatfishfishmonkeyhat Freelance Pin Man Newcastle, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Oh snap.

  • gacbmmmlgacbmmml Registered User regular
    Oh, absolutely. You had to attend a PAX, stand in line, play a Demo, and if you followed their rules of one per person, then yes, rarer than any other pin you could buy in quantity. I would MAYBE move that entire section below the Merch Booth LE pins because they are in fact limited to 2 per person per day. Okay, you've convinced me.



  • evil santaevil santa To infinity...and beyond!Registered User regular
    It's rather interesting to read the feedback about the pin trading experience in this thread, the trade thread and the recent PAX East Community Trade thread run by @Beker as it shines some light on the pros and cons of trading in general. I'm feeling a bit reflective at the moment, so here's a bit of a confessional that I haven't shared on the site before...

    I was bitten by the pin-collecting bug at AUS 2014 last year. My partner and I did pick up a few pins at 2013 as souvenirs but mostly as an excuse to talk to the PA Staff on the last day. AUS 2014 rolls around and we want to get more involved in trading and building our collection from the show as a supplement to the fun of experiencing PAX. My friends and I are waiting in line on the first morning, wearing lanyards with our 2013 AUS pins on them. We (or the pins more accurately) are specifically targeted by a person trading in the line and we trade away 2013 AUS pins (not realising the value at the time) for new ones we haven't seen before. Later in the day, we realise the discrepancy but the damage is done. While I happily traded with PA Staff and friendly enforcers during the day, I did not seek out any trades with other PAX attendees. The previous experience had simply made me too concerned about getting sharked and thus I avoided it.

    Fast-forward to today and I am pretty comfortable negotiating trades and have a passable understanding of pin value. Due to the Pinny Pals site and this forum, I have had plenty of positive experiences trading and making deals and conversing with the pinny pals community and this helps to inform and bring joy to the hobby. Had I not come online to the PA forums (initially to seek more information about Thornwatch) and found this community, I can only say that the whole pin-trading thing would have left a rather sour taste in my mouth. Sometimes I worry how many other PAX attendees (and potential future members of this fine community) are put off by similar experiences.

    Pinny Pals Profile

    “I let out a battle cry. Sure, a lot of people might have mistaken it for a sudden yelp of unmanly fear, but trust me. It was a battle cry.”
  • fishfishmonkeyhatfishfishmonkeyhat Freelance Pin Man Newcastle, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    That sucks man. I hate to think there would be anyone in the community that would make that trade without letting the other person know the value of them.

    I mean, I traded a 15th Anniversary for an AUS13 logo pin in line on the first day last year, but I judged the value to be even-ish. Actually I feel kinda bad I didn't double check with them that they had an idea of the rarity of that pin..

    You don't have long dark hair do you?

  • maywestmaywest Registered User regular
    My one complaint about pin trading at East 2015 was what happened before PAX started.

    We all love to speculate what the pins will be, what they will really look like, how hard we think they will be to acquire. This is all well and good.

    However, I felt that when some "published" a monetary value on the pins BEFORE we knew if they would be hard to get, etc, that hurt the pin trading community. It was particularly bad because at least one place that pre-valued the pins is considered by some to be an authority on pin values.

    There were many surprises with the pins at East, and we need to be careful that our speculation does not get interpreted as fact, or else will will find ourselves being bit again.

    fishfishmonkeyhatadambargpvp_pandaPedroAsanicabbie98rentfnDefaultGenChubby Bunnyblighttdmjaberwockynmt
  • callmegarcallmegar Registered User regular
    gacbmmml wrote: »
    Oh, absolutely. You had to attend a PAX, stand in line, play a Demo, and if you followed their rules of one per person, then yes, rarer than any other pin you could buy in quantity. I would MAYBE move that entire section below the Merch Booth LE pins because they are in fact limited to 2 per person per day. Okay, you've convinced me.

    That's what I'm trying to capture in the Trade Value Chart, Pin run will counter the effect of castle guy being a show only trade. Work in slow progress.

    00trpy9qu6xq.jpg
  • QumadenQumaden World's Mightiest Mortal Registered User regular
    callmegar wrote: »
    gacbmmml wrote: »
    Oh, absolutely. You had to attend a PAX, stand in line, play a Demo, and if you followed their rules of one per person, then yes, rarer than any other pin you could buy in quantity. I would MAYBE move that entire section below the Merch Booth LE pins because they are in fact limited to 2 per person per day. Okay, you've convinced me.

    That's what I'm trying to capture in the Trade Value Chart, Pin run will counter the effect of castle guy being a show only trade. Work in slow progress.

    Doesn't pinmash already do that organically?

  • callmegarcallmegar Registered User regular
    Qumaden wrote: »
    callmegar wrote: »
    gacbmmml wrote: »
    Oh, absolutely. You had to attend a PAX, stand in line, play a Demo, and if you followed their rules of one per person, then yes, rarer than any other pin you could buy in quantity. I would MAYBE move that entire section below the Merch Booth LE pins because they are in fact limited to 2 per person per day. Okay, you've convinced me.

    That's what I'm trying to capture in the Trade Value Chart, Pin run will counter the effect of castle guy being a show only trade. Work in slow progress.

    Doesn't pinmash already do that organically?

    And I love it and factor it in, today D&D was number 2 overall I believe.

    00trpy9qu6xq.jpg
  • evil santaevil santa To infinity...and beyond!Registered User regular

    You don't have long dark hair do you?

    Yeah I do. I'm sure there's a few pics of me dressed as the Sage from Thornwatch floating around the place :)

    Pinny Pals Profile

    “I let out a battle cry. Sure, a lot of people might have mistaken it for a sudden yelp of unmanly fear, but trust me. It was a battle cry.”
  • fishfishmonkeyhatfishfishmonkeyhat Freelance Pin Man Newcastle, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Do you have a link? A LINK TO YOURFACE.JPEG?!

  • fishfishmonkeyhatfishfishmonkeyhat Freelance Pin Man Newcastle, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Well this is random. So I'm going through the twitch videos from PAXAUS and Paul/Storm started to serenade a girl in the front row:

    y6PXXBX.png

    99% sure person in the middle is who I traded with. That you @evil santa?

  • SerpicoBCSerpicoBC Registered User regular
    I know I'm not really adding to the conversation, but I have to just say I love Pinmash.

    DefaultGen
  • evil santaevil santa To infinity...and beyond!Registered User regular
    @fishfishmonkeyhat
    a2by603ykktq.jpg
    The one in the middle at the back is me :)

    Pinny Pals Profile

    “I let out a battle cry. Sure, a lot of people might have mistaken it for a sudden yelp of unmanly fear, but trust me. It was a battle cry.”
    fishfishmonkeyhat
  • miker525miker525 New YorkRegistered User regular
    So I just wanted to sort of throw my input in. This may end up being more of how and why I collect more than anything else but whatever. Here I go.

    So pax east 13 I saw the pins and thought they were interesting but decided at the price of $30 it wasnt something I wanted to jump into. Decided the same thing when the Hanna pin went up. However when the 15th anniversary pin went up I felt compelled to buy it. While I haven't been around since the beginning I've been reading pa for a pretty long time and I fwlt it was a moment I wanted to be a part of. Since then my trading has increased pretty seriously and I've got a whole lot of pins now. Unlike many of you I'm not after all of the pins. it isn't something feasible for me and so im okay with that. Instead Ive tried to fill my collection with pins that I either really love or have meaning to me. I was lucky enough to win the golden overwatch pin this past pax but I don't plan on ever trading it. Sure its got great "value" but I'd rather hold it for the memory of the rush of actually winning it out of the 1 in 10 chance. the East shield was a pin I desperately wanted after failing to get one each day last east. Having been to every east that's occurred it was a pin that had more sentimental value to anything else. It gave me reason this pax to really talk to everyone and have some great conversations with many of you pinny people. Ultimately at the end of Sunday I was able to acquire one and now it has way more meaning to me than it initially had. I now have the hunt and the people I met to go along with it. The last pin I'm truly hunting for right now is the order pin, which I want for nunerous reasons, but I wasn't able to make any successful trades this pax for it. I know its considered rare and valueble but its not a pin I really want to dump that much money into. Its a pin I want for the memories I have surrounding the game. Im excited to continue my hunt and keep the memories of tracking one down as well. Ive got some fodder pins ready to go!

    I guess what Im saying is while I think its awesome for all of you who have every pin and continue working to keep it that way, I would prefer the community to grow in a totally different direction than you. I think having a community based on people who enter because they have pins connected to special events or memories is a way more interesting community. And I don't mean this as a bash but I think it opens the opportunity for more to entire the community and bring in new personalities and more stories for us all to enjoy. ThiThings like ebay are obviously harmful to this and it does upset me that companies are encouraging that. I hope instead they begin to encourage trading and community interaction.

    I do wish more pins weren't being sold and I do wish there was a predetermined price for partner pins however. I would prefer more companies do giveaways for playing the game but I guess when there is more money to be made it should be expected by the companies. Additionally seeing we love fine raise there price to $40 a set of 4 tf2 pins was upsetting. I bought them anyway but it still, in my mind, goes against the whole system monetarily making them more valuable and thus making them a harder trade. Mc frontalot was selling his single pin for $20 over the usual $15 which was something I actually felt almost offended by. Its like he knows the pins are popular so he's intentionally charging more for them. To me thats a real problem.

    Other than that I think most points have already been discussed enough. Sorry for the long tirade, especially if some of it is typed all wonky (writing from my phone which is a bit borked atm) but thanks for being cool if you actually got all the way through it.

    Lastly just wanted to say everyone I met at pax was super cool and I had a blast talking with all of you. It was an honor to be treated as a true member of the pinny community, even as someone who isn't as hard core about it.

    weZXr66.png
    Steam - Miker525 | Xbox Live - Miker525| PSN - MikeRosenberg
    Websites - Gamerations - MikeRosenberger.com
    Pinny Pals - Miker525
  • misskassmisskass Melbourne, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2015
    miker525 wrote: »
    Additionally seeing we love fine raise there price to $40 a set of 4 tf2 pins was upsetting. I bought them anyway but it still, in my mind, goes against the whole system monetarily making them more valuable and thus making them a harder trade.
    WLF also charged tax if you paid with a card. I had to use my international/travel debit card as I didn't have cash on me at the time, and an Adventure Time set plus a TF2 set cost me $85. :(

    Granted, that is only very slightly over $10 a pin, but compared to the core sets at $30 flat, it's a bit of a ripoff.

    misskass on
    https://www.pinnypals.com/pals/misskass
    Attended: Aus 2013, Aus 2014, East 2015, Aus 2015

    Aus 2016
    [x] GUESS WHO JUST REALISED IT'S FINALLY THIS YEAR
    miker525Capt Wasabievil santaChubby BunnyLazorz
  • Chubby BunnyChubby Bunny Regal Pocket Monster Boston, MARegistered User regular
    misskass wrote: »
    miker525 wrote: »
    Additionally seeing we love fine raise there price to $40 a set of 4 tf2 pins was upsetting. I bought them anyway but it still, in my mind, goes against the whole system monetarily making them more valuable and thus making them a harder trade.
    WLF also charged tax if you paid with a card. I had to use my international/travel debit card as I didn't have cash on me at the time, and an Adventure Time set plus a TF2 set cost me $85. :(

    Granted, that is only very slightly over $10 a pin, but compared to the core sets at $30 flat, it's a bit of a ripoff.

    I agree. Paying $42.50 for the set and then $30 for 2 pins at Supergiant really put a bad taste in my mouth.

    Battle.net: ChubbyBunny#1452 | Steam: Bunny1248 | Xbox Live: CBunny1

    My Digital Pin Lanyard || PAX East '13, '14, '15, '19 | PAX South '15
  • Shadowscars22Shadowscars22 Registered User regular
    miker525 wrote: »
    Mc frontalot was selling his single pin for $20 over the usual $15 which was something I actually felt almost offended by. Its like he knows the pins are popular so he's intentionally charging more for them. To me thats a real problem.

    Now, I wouldn't bet my life on it - but I had the impression most 3rd party pins vendors are told they can sell their leftover pins at future PAXen, but not at the original release price - I'm saying that, because Loading Ready Run for example have most of their old pins at a 15$ price point, and when they have a new pin, it is 10$ for the PAX of its release. MC Frontalot and Scott and Kriss Straub seem to also follow that trend.

    I realise it sucks for people who didn't go to the PAX it was released in, but in a sense, doesn't it make sense that the only place you can get a pin (at the original price or by doing the original task required to obtain it) is by being there when it's released? You can still get it after, but you'll either have to pay more, or do something else (like for Old MTG pins that are still available but less accessible)

    Visit my website, thepintrader.com, the first Pinny Arcade store!
    fishfishmonkeyhat
  • Chubby BunnyChubby Bunny Regal Pocket Monster Boston, MARegistered User regular
    miker525 wrote: »
    Mc frontalot was selling his single pin for $20 over the usual $15 which was something I actually felt almost offended by. Its like he knows the pins are popular so he's intentionally charging more for them. To me thats a real problem.

    Now, I wouldn't bet my life on it - but I had the impression most 3rd party pins vendors are told they can sell their leftover pins at future PAXen, but not at the original release price - I'm saying that, because Loading Ready Run for example have most of their old pins at a 15$ price point, and when they have a new pin, it is 10$ for the PAX of its release. MC Frontalot and Scott and Kriss Straub seem to also follow that trend.

    I realise it sucks for people who didn't go to the PAX it was released in, but in a sense, doesn't it make sense that the only place you can get a pin (at the original price or by doing the original task required to obtain it) is by being there when it's released? You can still get it after, but you'll either have to pay more, or do something else (like for Old MTG pins that are still available but less accessible)

    I agree up to a point. $20 for a single pin? There's gotta be some other way.

    Battle.net: ChubbyBunny#1452 | Steam: Bunny1248 | Xbox Live: CBunny1

    My Digital Pin Lanyard || PAX East '13, '14, '15, '19 | PAX South '15
    miker525
  • pakopakopakopako Registered User regular
    I agree up to a point. $20 for a single pin? There's gotta be some other way.
    "If you want it... expect to be price gouged."

    I do like what Straubb does offer "at-event" discounts. And glad to see he's not the only one. Though I am a bit perplexed at why some -- *cough*Valve*cough* -- would raise prices for at-event sales.

  • pvp_pandapvp_panda Registered User regular
    Note that Welovefine has the adventure time set at $45 + Tax (for CA/NY) + Shipping

    http://www.welovefine.com/9190-pinny-arcade-adventure-time-pin-set.html

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