Eh, it's our classes. We've played 'em long enough, we know where they'll go wrong. Communication's been such a slow drip that folks are gonna question everything at this point.
Hopefully they've got some good explanation for tomorrow's ready up/poi. all they gotta do is show a reaper crit take an entire lifebar off a guardian with a successful sword connect, and I'm sure folks will be ready to hype again.
GW2 is, and never was, a "group oriented" game. EVERYONE has rez, which means you don't need a dedicated rezzer. EVERYONE has a heal of some flavor, which means you don't need a dedicated healer. EVERYONE has some kind of CC, so that role is gone too. Everyone does everything, so you don't need a specific group makeup. In that kind of an environment, "group utility" is a complete non-sequitor. Sure, there are ways to _support_ your group, but that's a secondary role for every class. There is no "support" class in the game. And that's by design.
I can totally see a Reaper performing well in a PvE environment. PvE opponents only attack about once every 25 minutes - albeit with a REALLY BIG hit! - and chill would spread those one-shot attack points out even further, giving you more chances to dodge them. PBAE attacks like shouts are super easy to manage when you're already trading swings with MOBs, and having an actual kill-shot ability sounds a-maze-ing!
The ability to instasummon five jaggies warms the cockles. Pop 'em out, then just exit the fight and let them tank for a while. Especially in PvE! Going from playing as a Mesmer who can only summon THREE pets with a long-ish cooldown between summons, to being able to have five pets that actually _do_ damage (even if it's just a little - Mesmer clones do zero damage!) sounds even better.
This one has me pretty excited for the expansion. Unfortunately, my baby necro is only level 2 and hasn't even unlocked a single anything. Getting it up to speed in time to play the expansion pack might not be feasible.
So many options!!
0
FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
edited May 2015
You know that you can easily get "Ding, you're Level 20 now!!" scrolls, right ?
GW2 is, and never was, a "group oriented" game. EVERYONE has rez, which means you don't need a dedicated rezzer. EVERYONE has a heal of some flavor, which means you don't need a dedicated healer. EVERYONE has some kind of CC, so that role is gone too. Everyone does everything, so you don't need a specific group makeup. In that kind of an environment, "group utility" is a complete non-sequitor. Sure, there are ways to _support_ your group, but that's a secondary role for every class. There is no "support" class in the game. And that's by design.
I can totally see a Reaper performing well in a PvE environment. PvE opponents only attack about once every 25 minutes - albeit with a REALLY BIG hit! - and chill would spread those one-shot attack points out even further, giving you more chances to dodge them. PBAE attacks like shouts are super easy to manage when you're already trading swings with MOBs, and having an actual kill-shot ability sounds a-maze-ing!
The ability to instasummon five jaggies warms the cockles. Pop 'em out, then just exit the fight and let them tank for a while. Especially in PvE! Going from playing as a Mesmer who can only summon THREE pets with a long-ish cooldown between summons, to being able to have five pets that actually _do_ damage (even if it's just a little - Mesmer clones do zero damage!) sounds even better.
This one has me pretty excited for the expansion. Unfortunately, my baby necro is only level 2 and hasn't even unlocked a single anything. Getting it up to speed in time to play the expansion pack might not be feasible.
So many options!!
yeah theres no trinity yes. but necros dont get stab. They need pals for that. A solo person? No water blasting for spike heals for them.
Its solo and it isnt.
I think its a neat spec- it interesting to see each classes playerbase react. And to see some necros as meh as gardians were.....
mojojoeo on
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GW2 is, and never was, a "group oriented" game. EVERYONE has rez, which means you don't need a dedicated rezzer. EVERYONE has a heal of some flavor, which means you don't need a dedicated healer. EVERYONE has some kind of CC, so that role is gone too. Everyone does everything, so you don't need a specific group makeup. In that kind of an environment, "group utility" is a complete non-sequitor. Sure, there are ways to _support_ your group, but that's a secondary role for every class. There is no "support" class in the game. And that's by design.
I was talking specifically about dungeons. Necromancers are not popular in dungeons because they have no group utility to make speed runs go faster: every other class brings more to the table in the form of useful combo fields, blast finishers, stealth, boons, vulnerability stacking, reflects, or some other thing that is needed for speed runs. Necros are considered a "selfish" class-- we only help ourselves. At least if we want to be effective. You can spec a necro for support (I have before), but you lose a ton of power. Necros are best used as the supportee, not the supporter, and it's disappointing to me that they reinforced that.
Edit: If you're not clear on what skills are valued for dungeon runs, check this page: http://gw2dungeons.net/Meta. Note the calling out of Necromancer as being a "low-value" profession due to lack of any of the things considered valuable.
Edit 2: If we don't get either some kind of stability or reflect out this, I will be Officially Disappointed.
Oh, you meant that it wasn't an improvement for speed-clearing dungeons! I'd probably agree with that.
But that's such a super-specialized sub-part of the game that doesn't really apply to the vast majority of the current playerbase. Even if it's true that necros are weak at that particular aspect of the game (which I won't comment on, since dungeons are not, like, totally not my thing, man) I wouldn't expect the expansion to tackle that situation. I mean, pretty much _everything_ they've announced so far isn't "for" speedclear players... it looks like they are working to appease the "general" player who does a little of this and a little of that, and filling in gaps in the existing classes to make them even -less- specialized. Putting aside the Chronomancer, the DragonHunter is getting ranger-like skills, and the Reaper is getting warrior-like skills, but both of them are opening up additional possibilities for gameplay styles that those classes may not have been good for in the past. (It could be argued that giving a Mesmer a shield makes them more flexible too, but I don't think you'll find anyone crowing about how that line will make them a 'must have' in a dungeon run.)
Personally, I think that if you're expecting the expansion to focus on shoring up specific classes' weaknesses in specific gameplay situations, I expect you're going to be disappointed. That's not generally how these things work.
Putting aside the Chronomancer, the DragonHunter is getting ranger-like skills, and the Reaper is getting warrior-like skills, but both of them are opening up additional possibilities for gameplay styles that those classes may not have been good for in the past. (It could be argued that giving a Mesmer a shield makes them more flexible too, but I don't think you'll find anyone crowing about how that line will make them a 'must have' in a dungeon run.)
You could say that the Chronomancer is getting Necromancer-like skills, what with the wells.
I just want to know what's happening with the Engineer, and more info about the Revenant would be nice.
Quick PSA: The Watchwork Mining Pick is back up on the trading post. If you had to pick any unlimited harvesting tool to buy, that's the one. Free watchwork sprockets with every hit.
Oh, you meant that it wasn't an improvement for speed-clearing dungeons! I'd probably agree with that.
But that's such a super-specialized sub-part of the game that doesn't really apply to the vast majority of the current playerbase. Even if it's true that necros are weak at that particular aspect of the game (which I won't comment on, since dungeons are not, like, totally not my thing, man) I wouldn't expect the expansion to tackle that situation.
So here's the thing: I'm not that into dungeons or fractals. But when I do occasionally do them, I more or less have to bring another character. Not my main who I love playing. That makes me angry.
They COULD have taken the opportunity of introducing elite specialization to give us more options. Like, I get that they can't give necros reflect as-is because it would be OP given what we can already do. But they could have used Elite Specs to lock us out of whatever they think shouldn't go with a reflect and then give us one. That way if it's REQUIRED for a certain encounter (and sometimes it is, because their dungeon design is ass), we can swap to that role and then back to the way we enjoy playing. I want options, I want utility, I want flexibility.
Instead they decided that we're totally fine and we should just get more of the same.
If you feel like you "have" to bring another character, maybe you're running with the wrong folks? I'd be glad to run dungeons and fractals with you. I've done every dungeon path and every fractal with three people. Five is not mandatory. Hell, bringing fewer people is sometimes more fun. If anyone's going to kick you from the group for not being part of the stupid speed-running meta, they weren't worth grouping with anyway.
Is warrior really middle to lower tier personal dps? I would've expected them to be highest.
Yup. It happened after the nerfs to GS Hundred Blades and Whirlwind Attack, and how it's now pretty much impossible to keep adrenaline maxed between fights anymore (meaning your always spending the beginning of every fight building adrenaline for burst skills/Berserker's Might) That plus the buffs to Ranger (mainly buffs to Longbow, the old GM signet trait becoming innate for all Ranger signets, and a new damage boosting GM trait to replace it) is what drove Warriors to the bottom half of the pack in terms of personal dps, though they still get a lot of love because Banners, Empowered Allies and Phalanx Strength are just so good at boosting party DPS.
In fact, there was a thread in the official forums about the most dreaded profession/build to join a pug group, and the most common answer was, I kid you not, a second Warrior (more than even necros and Bearbow Rangers!) because of how much party dps drops with a second warrior, when just one warrior can bring all the things I mentioned above with little loss to personal dps (Since Zerker's Might isn't as sustainable as it was before, and both GS traits are master traits that let you go 4/4/0/6/0 to pick up both + Empowered Allies and Phalanx Strength.)
Putting aside the Chronomancer, the DragonHunter is getting ranger-like skills, and the Reaper is getting warrior-like skills, but both of them are opening up additional possibilities for gameplay styles that those classes may not have been good for in the past. (It could be argued that giving a Mesmer a shield makes them more flexible too, but I don't think you'll find anyone crowing about how that line will make them a 'must have' in a dungeon run.)
You could say that the Chronomancer is getting Necromancer-like skills, what with the wells.
I just want to know what's happening with the Engineer, and more info about the Revenant would be nice.
Where ) means "gets skills like a(n)"
Mesmer ) Necro
Guard ) Ranger
Necro ) Warrior
I'm guessing Thief is ) Engi with the Rifle
And it'll probably be Ranger ) Guard, but could also be Ranger ) Ele, if the staff attacks tend more towards area effects and fields.
Engi ) Guard, since it's a hammer. and the robominions will act like the spirit weapons guards get.
Ele ) Thief with shadowstepping, or maybe Ele ) Mesmer, but I don't know how that would look.
And Warrior, man I dunno. Maybe it's Warrior ) Enemy NPC.
If everybody was getting skills like some other class this would be my guessed layout.
-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
edited May 2015
I don't mind elite specialisations treading on the toes of other classes, because I don't have one of every class, and even those that I do have are very underlevelled and undergeared. If it lets me play one of the few characters I have in a completely new way, so I don't have to roll a new character and level it and gear it up, I'm totally all for it.
I can see it being a disappointing direction for some. Personally I can't wait to try them.
Putting aside the Chronomancer, the DragonHunter is getting ranger-like skills, and the Reaper is getting warrior-like skills, but both of them are opening up additional possibilities for gameplay styles that those classes may not have been good for in the past. (It could be argued that giving a Mesmer a shield makes them more flexible too, but I don't think you'll find anyone crowing about how that line will make them a 'must have' in a dungeon run.)
You could say that the Chronomancer is getting Necromancer-like skills, what with the wells.
I just want to know what's happening with the Engineer, and more info about the Revenant would be nice.
Where ) means "gets skills like a(n)"
Mesmer ) Necro
Guard ) Ranger
Necro ) Warrior
I'm guessing Thief is ) Engi with the Rifle
And it'll probably be Ranger ) Guard, but could also be Ranger ) Ele, if the staff attacks tend more towards area effects and fields.
Engi ) Guard, since it's a hammer. and the robominions will act like the spirit weapons guards get.
Ele ) Thief with shadowstepping, or maybe Ele ) Mesmer, but I don't know how that would look.
And Warrior, man I dunno. Maybe it's Warrior ) Enemy NPC.
If everybody was getting skills like some other class this would be my guessed layout.
I'm not sure that the weapon the elite specs are getting always corresponds to what class'sd mechanic they're getting, since chronomancers get shields and necros don't use shields. Although your idea that the Engineer is getting Guardian spirit weapons is intriguing; when I first saw that teaser video, I was thinking more along the lines of a Ranger's pets or (probably more likely) their spirits.
Okay. Here is my wild speculation for Necro PoI today. Because I like to speculate and make shit up.
The new Death Shroud, now known as Repear's Shroud, is going to have the following properties:
- Spends life force as you stay in it (just like Death Shroud)
- Will no longer block damage from going into your health pool by default
- Instead will buff your health pool way up (like Lich form).
- Can be grand master traited to provide one of three options:
- Grandmaster option #1: Percentage damage done to you while in Repear's Shroud is instead healed.
- Grandmaster option #2: Upon entering Repear's Shroud gain a Defiance Bar.
- Grandmaster option #3: Life force is no longer spent to maintain Repear's Shroud. All Repear skills are now unblockable.
Shouts:
- Shout chilling all nearby enemies (5 max) and gives % life force back to the Necro that scales based on # of enemies hit.
- Shout soul siphoning all nearby enemies (5 max). Gain stability and protection and heal based on # of enemies hit.
Okay. Here is my wild speculation for Necro PoI today. Because I like to speculate and make shit up.
The new Death Shroud, now known as Repear's Shroud, is going to have the following properties:
- Spends life force as you stay in it (just like Death Shroud)
- Will no longer block damage from going into your health pool by default
- Instead will buff your health pool way up (like Lich form).
- Can be grand master traited to provide one of three options:
- Grandmaster option #1: Percentage damage done to you while in Repear's Shroud is instead healed.
- Grandmaster option #2: Upon entering Repear's Shroud gain a Defiance Bar.
- Grandmaster option #3: Life force is no longer spent to maintain Repear's Shroud.
Shouts:
- Shout chilling all nearby enemies (5 max) and gives % life force back to the Necro that scales based on # of enemies hit.
- Shout soul siphoning all nearby enemies (5 max). Gain stability and protection and heal based on # of enemies hit.
I doubt there is going to be three Reaper's Shroud GM traits.
I'm thinking more like
#1: Chill deal damage over time
#2: You now have a Defiance bar. The Defiance bar will recharge in Reaper's Shroud and start to decay when you leave Reaper's Shroud
#3: When you gain Life Force from a nearby death, you gain Quickness.
Posts
Hopefully they've got some good explanation for tomorrow's ready up/poi. all they gotta do is show a reaper crit take an entire lifebar off a guardian with a successful sword connect, and I'm sure folks will be ready to hype again.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
Why the shroud changes it to a emo scythe!!!
Muwhahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa-goddambitigettraps...............
I can totally see a Reaper performing well in a PvE environment. PvE opponents only attack about once every 25 minutes - albeit with a REALLY BIG hit! - and chill would spread those one-shot attack points out even further, giving you more chances to dodge them. PBAE attacks like shouts are super easy to manage when you're already trading swings with MOBs, and having an actual kill-shot ability sounds a-maze-ing!
The ability to instasummon five jaggies warms the cockles. Pop 'em out, then just exit the fight and let them tank for a while. Especially in PvE! Going from playing as a Mesmer who can only summon THREE pets with a long-ish cooldown between summons, to being able to have five pets that actually _do_ damage (even if it's just a little - Mesmer clones do zero damage!) sounds even better.
This one has me pretty excited for the expansion. Unfortunately, my baby necro is only level 2 and hasn't even unlocked a single anything. Getting it up to speed in time to play the expansion pack might not be feasible.
So many options!!
yeah theres no trinity yes. but necros dont get stab. They need pals for that. A solo person? No water blasting for spike heals for them.
Its solo and it isnt.
I think its a neat spec- it interesting to see each classes playerbase react. And to see some necros as meh as gardians were.....
I was talking specifically about dungeons. Necromancers are not popular in dungeons because they have no group utility to make speed runs go faster: every other class brings more to the table in the form of useful combo fields, blast finishers, stealth, boons, vulnerability stacking, reflects, or some other thing that is needed for speed runs. Necros are considered a "selfish" class-- we only help ourselves. At least if we want to be effective. You can spec a necro for support (I have before), but you lose a ton of power. Necros are best used as the supportee, not the supporter, and it's disappointing to me that they reinforced that.
Edit: If you're not clear on what skills are valued for dungeon runs, check this page: http://gw2dungeons.net/Meta. Note the calling out of Necromancer as being a "low-value" profession due to lack of any of the things considered valuable.
Edit 2: If we don't get either some kind of stability or reflect out this, I will be Officially Disappointed.
But that's such a super-specialized sub-part of the game that doesn't really apply to the vast majority of the current playerbase. Even if it's true that necros are weak at that particular aspect of the game (which I won't comment on, since dungeons are not, like, totally not my thing, man) I wouldn't expect the expansion to tackle that situation. I mean, pretty much _everything_ they've announced so far isn't "for" speedclear players... it looks like they are working to appease the "general" player who does a little of this and a little of that, and filling in gaps in the existing classes to make them even -less- specialized. Putting aside the Chronomancer, the DragonHunter is getting ranger-like skills, and the Reaper is getting warrior-like skills, but both of them are opening up additional possibilities for gameplay styles that those classes may not have been good for in the past. (It could be argued that giving a Mesmer a shield makes them more flexible too, but I don't think you'll find anyone crowing about how that line will make them a 'must have' in a dungeon run.)
Personally, I think that if you're expecting the expansion to focus on shoring up specific classes' weaknesses in specific gameplay situations, I expect you're going to be disappointed. That's not generally how these things work.
You could say that the Chronomancer is getting Necromancer-like skills, what with the wells.
I just want to know what's happening with the Engineer, and more info about the Revenant would be nice.
So here's the thing: I'm not that into dungeons or fractals. But when I do occasionally do them, I more or less have to bring another character. Not my main who I love playing. That makes me angry.
They COULD have taken the opportunity of introducing elite specialization to give us more options. Like, I get that they can't give necros reflect as-is because it would be OP given what we can already do. But they could have used Elite Specs to lock us out of whatever they think shouldn't go with a reflect and then give us one. That way if it's REQUIRED for a certain encounter (and sometimes it is, because their dungeon design is ass), we can swap to that role and then back to the way we enjoy playing. I want options, I want utility, I want flexibility.
Instead they decided that we're totally fine and we should just get more of the same.
Yup. It happened after the nerfs to GS Hundred Blades and Whirlwind Attack, and how it's now pretty much impossible to keep adrenaline maxed between fights anymore (meaning your always spending the beginning of every fight building adrenaline for burst skills/Berserker's Might) That plus the buffs to Ranger (mainly buffs to Longbow, the old GM signet trait becoming innate for all Ranger signets, and a new damage boosting GM trait to replace it) is what drove Warriors to the bottom half of the pack in terms of personal dps, though they still get a lot of love because Banners, Empowered Allies and Phalanx Strength are just so good at boosting party DPS.
In fact, there was a thread in the official forums about the most dreaded profession/build to join a pug group, and the most common answer was, I kid you not, a second Warrior (more than even necros and Bearbow Rangers!) because of how much party dps drops with a second warrior, when just one warrior can bring all the things I mentioned above with little loss to personal dps (Since Zerker's Might isn't as sustainable as it was before, and both GS traits are master traits that let you go 4/4/0/6/0 to pick up both + Empowered Allies and Phalanx Strength.)
Where ) means "gets skills like a(n)"
Mesmer ) Necro
Guard ) Ranger
Necro ) Warrior
I'm guessing Thief is ) Engi with the Rifle
And it'll probably be Ranger ) Guard, but could also be Ranger ) Ele, if the staff attacks tend more towards area effects and fields.
Engi ) Guard, since it's a hammer. and the robominions will act like the spirit weapons guards get.
Ele ) Thief with shadowstepping, or maybe Ele ) Mesmer, but I don't know how that would look.
And Warrior, man I dunno. Maybe it's Warrior ) Enemy NPC.
If everybody was getting skills like some other class this would be my guessed layout.
I can see it being a disappointing direction for some. Personally I can't wait to try them.
I'm not sure that the weapon the elite specs are getting always corresponds to what class'sd mechanic they're getting, since chronomancers get shields and necros don't use shields. Although your idea that the Engineer is getting Guardian spirit weapons is intriguing; when I first saw that teaser video, I was thinking more along the lines of a Ranger's pets or (probably more likely) their spirits.
Ele with Mantras could be interesting, I enjoyed mantras on my mesmer.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
The new Death Shroud, now known as Repear's Shroud, is going to have the following properties:
- Spends life force as you stay in it (just like Death Shroud)
- Will no longer block damage from going into your health pool by default
- Instead will buff your health pool way up (like Lich form).
- Can be grand master traited to provide one of three options:
- Grandmaster option #1: Percentage damage done to you while in Repear's Shroud is instead healed.
- Grandmaster option #2: Upon entering Repear's Shroud gain a Defiance Bar.
- Grandmaster option #3: Life force is no longer spent to maintain Repear's Shroud. All Repear skills are now unblockable.
Shouts:
- Shout chilling all nearby enemies (5 max) and gives % life force back to the Necro that scales based on # of enemies hit.
- Shout soul siphoning all nearby enemies (5 max). Gain stability and protection and heal based on # of enemies hit.
I doubt there is going to be three Reaper's Shroud GM traits.
I'm thinking more like
#1: Chill deal damage over time
#2: You now have a Defiance bar. The Defiance bar will recharge in Reaper's Shroud and start to decay when you leave Reaper's Shroud
#3: When you gain Life Force from a nearby death, you gain Quickness.
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/198348/gw2-heart-of-thorns-chronomancers-and-dragonhunters-and-reapers-oh-my#latest
My server is Fort Aspenwood, so yay.
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