Welp, I was being very conservative with my gold while grabbing several cheap heroes to get ready for Hero League and then my drunken mind bought Zagara.
Zagara is the light.
I have been meaning to do that. I keep forgetting TBH
Man, I am not sure about Sonya's changes at all. They seem like a pretty harsh nerf to a character that was already in the basement.
Also Kael destroys her so hard if he gets even the tiniest advantage, it's brutal. combined with how insane Li Li is right now, I feel like the game has never snowballed harder. First team's lili to 7 makes their team unkillable for the next fight, and first kael to 16 wins the game.
edit: and once again at 1:30 on the dot my connection to blizzard servers implodes midgame. thanks. 1100 ping and over 5 seconds of input lag at times.
Why would they fix Sonya? Just crap out a couple more warriors so people can play them instead.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I, uh... clearly am not playing at a very high level, and didn't play her before the nerf, but Sonya still felt very strong to me. Kael'thas literally dies to Q->W->auto->W, especially if you take Follow Through (which I think may actually be a great idea, because it's literally just 'you hit for 40% more' because slam gives it 100% uptime). Maybe it's just people in the trench don't know how to deal with her.
I, uh... clearly am not playing at a very high level, and didn't play her before the nerf, but Sonya still felt very strong to me. Kael'thas literally dies to Q->W->auto->W, especially if you take Follow Through (which I think may actually be a great idea, because it's literally just 'you hit for 40% more' because slam gives it 100% uptime). Maybe it's just people in the trench don't know how to deal with her.
if kael lets you get close enough to q without empowered flamestrike living bomb taking away 50% of your hp he's not a good kael, and he'll stun you the instant you get close. i'm not great at sonya by any means but she has always been a worse illidan, and now she seems significantly worse since slam doesn't get good burst until 16, and even then she misses on 2 incredibly good talents to get it.
Wow, that Lili build is CRAZY. Literally immortal in some situations.
basically against lili you have to play full cc at all times and anything your character can build to stun or silence should probably be taken, because you need to kill her /now/.
on a totally not related note, finally teaching myself to play with RoV on Valla.
I am not sure if it was simply because people were strictly building for slam before but the new Sonya is wild. As in she is a whirlwind of death and vampirism. Without stuns she is not going down or at least it certainly seemed that way in playing over the weekend. I certainly underestimated her a few times and ended up paying for it.
Also, open beta tomorrow. Aside from the servers likely being a disaster I would recommend looking for groups in heroes of the wang more than usual.
Anyone know if there is a way to see a person's status (in game/not in game) if they are not on your friends list? I have basically been adding anyone who shows up in the PA channel but that has now maxed out the list. Rather than constantly shuffling the list it would be nice if I could tell if <person> who was LFG in channel gave up and joined a game or is just afk or whatever.
Looks like the heroes for next week (first week of open beta) are as follows:
Anub'arak
Muradin
Brightwing
Kerrigan
Raynor
lvl 12 Nazeebo
lvl 15 The Lost Vikings
Huh. I'm pretty sure anyone who really wants into the beta at this point is in, but in case there are a bunch who aren't (and will be this week with open beta), there's some pretty hard-to-play heroes in that list to welcome them into the nexus. :?
And oh gawd, free TLV week? KMN. My team will get the bad one's while the enemy team will get the Grubby-like gods of micro.
Or just play Hero League where the free-rotation doesn't affect the meta!
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Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
So I've been able to play this again recently, I finally got enough gold to get an expensive hero, went with Sylvanas. Really liking her so far (though I wish she had a different horse-riding posture, I'm sure it seems cool but it just looks like she's missing a leg) and man Kael'thas has insane levels of damage going on.
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
Raynor is the only easy hero there, Muradin is okish but he's still a warrior and knowing when to go in is difficult.
Also curious to see how many people buy Li Li to keep playing her while she's busted. Gonna be a weird week.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited May 2015
On the other hand, yay I can finally try out Vikings (probably vs CPU because I don't necessarily hate other people :P)
Side note - I am convinced my AI team mates in Versus AI mode are one lower rank than the enemy team's. It's the only way I can explain why they CONSTANTLY ignore map objectives and just let the enemy get them all (also, they tend to ignore my pings for them)
I actually lost a Versus AI match last night because they were so bad. That's shameful. Luckily my dailies were for played, not wins.
P.S. - I also finally bought Zagara. Zagara is just the best. I even dumbly picked that talent that buffs minions (the way it was worded it sounded like it buffed the entire lane, not one guy) and I still stomped the CPU team with some powered up catapults
Every free rotation has a warrior (and everything else). Just as well that it's Muradin. Better him than Diablos suplexing everyone out of skillshots, and definitely better than Chens who blow all their mana (brew) and then just stand there confused and can't figure out why their moves don't work anymore.
On the other hand, yay I can finally try out Vikings (probably vs CPU because I don't necessarily hate other people :P)
The cool thing about TLV is they are perfectly fine grouped up. If you aren't comfortable with their micro, keeping them together works great. As you get used to them, work on sending one out (usually Erik) into his own lane and keep the other two together.
Their ability to soak early XP is why they shine, but by the late game you almost always keep them together anyway.
On the other hand, yay I can finally try out Vikings (probably vs CPU because I don't necessarily hate other people :P)
The cool thing about TLV is they are perfectly fine grouped up. If you aren't comfortable with their micro, keeping them together works great. As you get used to them, work on sending one out (usually Erik) into his own lane and keep the other two together.
Their ability to soak early XP is why they shine, but by the late game you almost always keep them together anyway.
Yeah, I am 50/50 on whether I'll be able to handle that or not. I have a lot of RTS experience so maybe, but keeping track of when they are actually in danger might be hard.
Just played a game with LiLis on both teams. Naturally my team gets the first timer and the enemy team gets a master skin LiLi who knows full well how to take advantage of the serpent bug.
Played through the tutorial again to get enough Gold to buy Abathur, then played a couple QM with him. Finally understand what people mean with "hat build" vs. "locust build". Also, I now understand how he can have presence in all three lanes at once lategame - his own locust spawns in one, a nest spawning in another, and a hat on a minion or hero in the the third. So that's cool.
So far it seems like the "clone a hero" is a better ult than "make a monster" because my monstrosities tend to not live very long, but that's probably just playstyle issues. Fun guy, open to any and all tips on playing him. hint hint.
XBL: Morgan Coke Yes, there is a space, not an underscore. I'm old school like that.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
On the other hand, yay I can finally try out Vikings (probably vs CPU because I don't necessarily hate other people :P)
Side note - I am convinced my AI team mates in Versus AI mode are one lower rank than the enemy team's. It's the only way I can explain why they CONSTANTLY ignore map objectives and just let the enemy get them all (also, they tend to ignore my pings for them)
I actually lost a Versus AI match last night because they were so bad. That's shameful. Luckily my dailies were for played, not wins.
P.S. - I also finally bought Zagara. Zagara is just the best. I even dumbly picked that talent that buffs minions (the way it was worded it sounded like it buffed the entire lane, not one guy) and I still stomped the CPU team with some powered up catapults
I had a vs game last night (finishing up a quest) with Muradin where I'd be in the middle of a team fight, everybody would be at high health, I'd jump in to stun and every friendly AI would go off to ride bikes.
Raynor is the only easy hero there, Muradin is okish but he's still a warrior and knowing when to go in is difficult.
Also curious to see how many people buy Li Li to keep playing her while she's busted. Gonna be a weird week.
I think you mean prepare to Play Again
I've been playing LiLi in QM, and I keep getting people who don't know how the serpent works. They will hearthstone, or spend cooldowns blowing up a creep wave, rather than getting a giant heal for standing around.
He's the only one with a non-ult ability that lets him move around while constantly shooting at something. He has an AoE ranged knock back. And his auto attack range is shorter than every other ranged character's.
His Q can be used to kite, flank, or chase based on whether the target is pursuing you, staying in place, or fleeing.
His grenade can help with all of those based on where you throw it relative to the enemy. With the level 4 melting point talent, it becomes one of if not the strongest minion wave clears in the game, taking out an entire wave if you wait for them to form into a circle on top of doing good damage to a tower and gate and any nearby minions at the same time.
His auto attack is really only good for getting in some pot shots at fleeing heroes, minions, and structures. It does a lot of damage if you get a few seconds of attacks in but no competent team is going to let you stand close enough for that (again, less attack range).
I'd like to start teaming up with some folks who play Hero League more consistently. I feel like everyone on my list plays Quick Match almost exclusively. The other night, I had 20+ people on my friends list and every single one of them was in QM. Which is fine, I mean, I think people should play what they enjoy. What I'm saying is that I enjoy Hero League, and I want to start filling up my friends list with people who also want to climb the ladder.
Raynor is the only easy hero there, Muradin is okish but he's still a warrior and knowing when to go in is difficult.
Also curious to see how many people buy Li Li to keep playing her while she's busted. Gonna be a weird week.
I think you mean prepare to Play Again
I've been playing LiLi in QM, and I keep getting people who don't know how the serpent works. They will hearthstone, or spend cooldowns blowing up a creep wave, rather than getting a giant heal for standing around.
Only on your team. The other TLV will be longboats all day every day.
I'd like to start teaming up with some folks who play Hero League more consistently. I feel like everyone on my list plays Quick Match almost exclusively. The other night, I had 20+ people on my friends list and every single one of them was in QM. Which is fine, I mean, I think people should play what they enjoy. What I'm saying is that I enjoy Hero League, and I want to start filling up my friends list with people who also want to climb the ladder.
Me, you, weasel, fizzyelf, dudeman, invictus, Lucas, genrand, solosebo. There's plenty that come to mind that prefer HL.
Raynor is the only easy hero there, Muradin is okish but he's still a warrior and knowing when to go in is difficult.
Also curious to see how many people buy Li Li to keep playing her while she's busted. Gonna be a weird week.
I think you mean prepare to Play Again
I've been playing LiLi in QM, and I keep getting people who don't know how the serpent works. They will hearthstone, or spend cooldowns blowing up a creep wave, rather than getting a giant heal for standing around.
This has been my experience, too.
"Hey, you see that serpent above your head? That means you man up, eat their faces, and live forever!"
Played through the tutorial again to get enough Gold to buy Abathur, then played a couple QM with him. Finally understand what people mean with "hat build" vs. "locust build". Also, I now understand how he can have presence in all three lanes at once lategame - his own locust spawns in one, a nest spawning in another, and a hat on a minion or hero in the the third. So that's cool.
So far it seems like the "clone a hero" is a better ult than "make a monster" because my monstrosities tend to not live very long, but that's probably just playstyle issues. Fun guy, open to any and all tips on playing him. hint hint.
Abathur can have presence before the locust spawn nest from the late game. He can get XP from 3 lanes at once early game by:
1: hiding near a minion wave on a lane gets him XP by proximity (his own locust spawn's kills or proximity doesn't grant xp)
2: putting buried mines in another lane gets XP from the mine kills
3: hatting a third mine gets him XP from proximity of the unit with the hat. This is also key in remembering to hat something near a wave of minions about to die for that sweet XP. This means even hatting a tower as full minion wave walks up to it. By having a hat there you'll get all the XP.
The other thing is Tychus feels like he should be tankier than he is. He is a squishy. A super squishy. Because of this grabbing first aid and stone shield are excellent life decisions on him.
For ults I prefer Odin 99% of the time. The laser is good if it is ignored and off in a corner where it covers the fight but doesn't become a target or hit by aoes. It is very hard to use verse certain teams. Odin is also odd. Pop it before combat. The time for it to load up can mean if someone sees you, you are a dead man.
What Odin does that is cool is it gives you the range of Sgt. Hammer. You attack a bit slower but hit like a truck. The abilities have some warm up but are really good aoe damage. The cannons/q is good for runners. The missiles are aoe denial team fight damage.
For 20 I like the big red button when I am winning. The nuke is just neat. But really I would go for nexus fury for the range increase or bolt for a good escape. Your e is not a great escape ability. And is better for chasing and positioning in fights than running. Grenades are actually our escape. Land one to knock your opponent behind you just enough to survive on the run.
Raynor is the only easy hero there, Muradin is okish but he's still a warrior and knowing when to go in is difficult.
Also curious to see how many people buy Li Li to keep playing her while she's busted. Gonna be a weird week.
I think you mean prepare to Play Again
I've been playing LiLi in QM, and I keep getting people who don't know how the serpent works. They will hearthstone, or spend cooldowns blowing up a creep wave, rather than getting a giant heal for standing around.
This has been my experience, too.
"Hey, you see that serpent above your head? That means you man up, eat their faces, and live forever!"
*teammate runs to healing well*
:bigfrown:
I just played my first broke-LiLi HL game. Specced full serpent, obviously, and...man, it's hard to kill anybody with lili doing her thing, particularly once LiLi gets serpent on herself whenever she casts it on others. I mean, you need a sustain assassin and a burst assassin to take down someone with a serpent, and that's not counting the fact that LiLi is a fine healer otherwise.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
@milk ducks I can't speak for everyone else but when I log in I just want to play. I prefer QM because I always want to queue as anub'arak, however whatever the group is doing at the time I will go with. I know a few other people who are comfortable with QM or HL as well, so feel free to ask for HL. You may get more people than you think.
Played through the tutorial again to get enough Gold to buy Abathur, then played a couple QM with him. Finally understand what people mean with "hat build" vs. "locust build". Also, I now understand how he can have presence in all three lanes at once lategame - his own locust spawns in one, a nest spawning in another, and a hat on a minion or hero in the the third. So that's cool.
So far it seems like the "clone a hero" is a better ult than "make a monster" because my monstrosities tend to not live very long, but that's probably just playstyle issues. Fun guy, open to any and all tips on playing him. hint hint.
Abathur can have presence before the locust spawn nest from the late game. He can get XP from 3 lanes at once early game by:
1: hiding near a minion wave on a lane gets him XP by proximity (his own locust spawn's kills or proximity doesn't grant xp)
2: putting buried mines in another lane gets XP from the mine kills
3: hatting a third mine gets him XP from proximity of the unit with the hat. This is also key in remembering to hat something near a wave of minions about to die for that sweet XP. This means even hatting a tower as full minion wave walks up to it. By having a hat there you'll get all the XP.
So the mines soak XP, but the locusts don't? Huh. Thought it was the other way around tbh. Thanks.
XBL: Morgan Coke Yes, there is a space, not an underscore. I'm old school like that.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Played through the tutorial again to get enough Gold to buy Abathur, then played a couple QM with him. Finally understand what people mean with "hat build" vs. "locust build". Also, I now understand how he can have presence in all three lanes at once lategame - his own locust spawns in one, a nest spawning in another, and a hat on a minion or hero in the the third. So that's cool.
So far it seems like the "clone a hero" is a better ult than "make a monster" because my monstrosities tend to not live very long, but that's probably just playstyle issues. Fun guy, open to any and all tips on playing him. hint hint.
Abathur can have presence before the locust spawn nest from the late game. He can get XP from 3 lanes at once early game by:
1: hiding near a minion wave on a lane gets him XP by proximity (his own locust spawn's kills or proximity doesn't grant xp)
2: putting buried mines in another lane gets XP from the mine kills
3: hatting a third mine gets him XP from proximity of the unit with the hat. This is also key in remembering to hat something near a wave of minions about to die for that sweet XP. This means even hatting a tower as full minion wave walks up to it. By having a hat there you'll get all the XP.
So the mines soak XP, but the locusts don't? Huh. Thought it was the other way around tbh. Thanks.
Mines soak exp IF they do the killing damage. Not too hard, but it's different than soaking it by just being there.
Also, I think Monstrosity is much better as an ult. Unfortunately I'm on vacation on my phone now, so someone else will have to explain why
Ultimate evolution doesn't take advantage of any talents that hero takes - which really limits how much dmg you can put out in a short time with a given hero. If you have someone like Jaina on your team who still does lots of dmg without talents boosts it can be worth taking. Thrall would be an example of a terrible hero to clone as you don't have any talents helping to keep windfury up. Most of the warriors have kinda been gutted that the little bit of extra CC you'll provide isn't great and you don't really want your healer healing you anyway.
So Ultimate evolution is probably a better situational pick than a standard pick. Additionally if your going for a hat build - ultimate evolution is necessarily time you are not hatting someone - so your talent choices don't really synergize well.
Monstrosity is good - basically think of it as a on demand siege giants. Use it when you know the enemy team has to be somewhere else - typically when objectives are about to be up. If they don't deal with it after a couple minion waves it'll wreck a lane, don't summon it right next to a tower, you need to let it build up a couple minion waves before it does real dmg. At worst it's a solid distraction that they need to pull a hero away for, while the rest of your team is focused elsewhere.
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I have been meaning to do that. I keep forgetting TBH
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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Also Kael destroys her so hard if he gets even the tiniest advantage, it's brutal. combined with how insane Li Li is right now, I feel like the game has never snowballed harder. First team's lili to 7 makes their team unkillable for the next fight, and first kael to 16 wins the game.
edit: and once again at 1:30 on the dot my connection to blizzard servers implodes midgame. thanks. 1100 ping and over 5 seconds of input lag at times.
if kael lets you get close enough to q without empowered flamestrike living bomb taking away 50% of your hp he's not a good kael, and he'll stun you the instant you get close. i'm not great at sonya by any means but she has always been a worse illidan, and now she seems significantly worse since slam doesn't get good burst until 16, and even then she misses on 2 incredibly good talents to get it.
basically against lili you have to play full cc at all times and anything your character can build to stun or silence should probably be taken, because you need to kill her /now/.
on a totally not related note, finally teaching myself to play with RoV on Valla.
Also, open beta tomorrow. Aside from the servers likely being a disaster I would recommend looking for groups in heroes of the wang more than usual.
Anyone know if there is a way to see a person's status (in game/not in game) if they are not on your friends list? I have basically been adding anyone who shows up in the PA channel but that has now maxed out the list. Rather than constantly shuffling the list it would be nice if I could tell if <person> who was LFG in channel gave up and joined a game or is just afk or whatever.
WoWtcg and general gaming podcast
WoWtcg and gaming website
Now you're thinking with portals.
Anub'arak
Muradin
Brightwing
Kerrigan
Raynor
lvl 12 Nazeebo
lvl 15 The Lost Vikings
Huh. I'm pretty sure anyone who really wants into the beta at this point is in, but in case there are a bunch who aren't (and will be this week with open beta), there's some pretty hard-to-play heroes in that list to welcome them into the nexus. :?
And oh gawd, free TLV week? KMN. My team will get the bad one's while the enemy team will get the Grubby-like gods of micro.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
Raynor is the only easy hero there, Muradin is okish but he's still a warrior and knowing when to go in is difficult.
Also curious to see how many people buy Li Li to keep playing her while she's busted. Gonna be a weird week.
Side note - I am convinced my AI team mates in Versus AI mode are one lower rank than the enemy team's. It's the only way I can explain why they CONSTANTLY ignore map objectives and just let the enemy get them all (also, they tend to ignore my pings for them)
I actually lost a Versus AI match last night because they were so bad. That's shameful. Luckily my dailies were for played, not wins.
P.S. - I also finally bought Zagara. Zagara is just the best. I even dumbly picked that talent that buffs minions (the way it was worded it sounded like it buffed the entire lane, not one guy) and I still stomped the CPU team with some powered up catapults
The cool thing about TLV is they are perfectly fine grouped up. If you aren't comfortable with their micro, keeping them together works great. As you get used to them, work on sending one out (usually Erik) into his own lane and keep the other two together.
Their ability to soak early XP is why they shine, but by the late game you almost always keep them together anyway.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
They need to fix that bug, pronto.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
Yeah, I am 50/50 on whether I'll be able to handle that or not. I have a lot of RTS experience so maybe, but keeping track of when they are actually in danger might be hard.
So far it seems like the "clone a hero" is a better ult than "make a monster" because my monstrosities tend to not live very long, but that's probably just playstyle issues. Fun guy, open to any and all tips on playing him. hint hint.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
I had a vs game last night (finishing up a quest) with Muradin where I'd be in the middle of a team fight, everybody would be at high health, I'd jump in to stun and every friendly AI would go off to ride bikes.
Re: ETC. LIES. Upgraded powerslides and Tour Bus are life.
I've been playing LiLi in QM, and I keep getting people who don't know how the serpent works. They will hearthstone, or spend cooldowns blowing up a creep wave, rather than getting a giant heal for standing around.
He's different from every other assassin.
He's the only one with a non-ult ability that lets him move around while constantly shooting at something. He has an AoE ranged knock back. And his auto attack range is shorter than every other ranged character's.
His Q can be used to kite, flank, or chase based on whether the target is pursuing you, staying in place, or fleeing.
His grenade can help with all of those based on where you throw it relative to the enemy. With the level 4 melting point talent, it becomes one of if not the strongest minion wave clears in the game, taking out an entire wave if you wait for them to form into a circle on top of doing good damage to a tower and gate and any nearby minions at the same time.
His auto attack is really only good for getting in some pot shots at fleeing heroes, minions, and structures. It does a lot of damage if you get a few seconds of attacks in but no competent team is going to let you stand close enough for that (again, less attack range).
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
Only on your team. The other TLV will be longboats all day every day.
Me, you, weasel, fizzyelf, dudeman, invictus, Lucas, genrand, solosebo. There's plenty that come to mind that prefer HL.
This has been my experience, too.
"Hey, you see that serpent above your head? That means you man up, eat their faces, and live forever!"
*teammate runs to healing well*
:bigfrown:
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
@morgan_coke
Abathur can have presence before the locust spawn nest from the late game. He can get XP from 3 lanes at once early game by:
1: hiding near a minion wave on a lane gets him XP by proximity (his own locust spawn's kills or proximity doesn't grant xp)
2: putting buried mines in another lane gets XP from the mine kills
3: hatting a third mine gets him XP from proximity of the unit with the hat. This is also key in remembering to hat something near a wave of minions about to die for that sweet XP. This means even hatting a tower as full minion wave walks up to it. By having a hat there you'll get all the XP.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Everything Steel Angel pointed out is true.
The other thing is Tychus feels like he should be tankier than he is. He is a squishy. A super squishy. Because of this grabbing first aid and stone shield are excellent life decisions on him.
For ults I prefer Odin 99% of the time. The laser is good if it is ignored and off in a corner where it covers the fight but doesn't become a target or hit by aoes. It is very hard to use verse certain teams. Odin is also odd. Pop it before combat. The time for it to load up can mean if someone sees you, you are a dead man.
What Odin does that is cool is it gives you the range of Sgt. Hammer. You attack a bit slower but hit like a truck. The abilities have some warm up but are really good aoe damage. The cannons/q is good for runners. The missiles are aoe denial team fight damage.
For 20 I like the big red button when I am winning. The nuke is just neat. But really I would go for nexus fury for the range increase or bolt for a good escape. Your e is not a great escape ability. And is better for chasing and positioning in fights than running. Grenades are actually our escape. Land one to knock your opponent behind you just enough to survive on the run.
I just played my first broke-LiLi HL game. Specced full serpent, obviously, and...man, it's hard to kill anybody with lili doing her thing, particularly once LiLi gets serpent on herself whenever she casts it on others. I mean, you need a sustain assassin and a burst assassin to take down someone with a serpent, and that's not counting the fact that LiLi is a fine healer otherwise.
WoWtcg and general gaming podcast
WoWtcg and gaming website
So the mines soak XP, but the locusts don't? Huh. Thought it was the other way around tbh. Thanks.
Battle.net: morgancoke#1589
Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
Mines soak exp IF they do the killing damage. Not too hard, but it's different than soaking it by just being there.
Also, I think Monstrosity is much better as an ult. Unfortunately I'm on vacation on my phone now, so someone else will have to explain why
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Ultimate evolution doesn't take advantage of any talents that hero takes - which really limits how much dmg you can put out in a short time with a given hero. If you have someone like Jaina on your team who still does lots of dmg without talents boosts it can be worth taking. Thrall would be an example of a terrible hero to clone as you don't have any talents helping to keep windfury up. Most of the warriors have kinda been gutted that the little bit of extra CC you'll provide isn't great and you don't really want your healer healing you anyway.
So Ultimate evolution is probably a better situational pick than a standard pick. Additionally if your going for a hat build - ultimate evolution is necessarily time you are not hatting someone - so your talent choices don't really synergize well.
Monstrosity is good - basically think of it as a on demand siege giants. Use it when you know the enemy team has to be somewhere else - typically when objectives are about to be up. If they don't deal with it after a couple minion waves it'll wreck a lane, don't summon it right next to a tower, you need to let it build up a couple minion waves before it does real dmg. At worst it's a solid distraction that they need to pull a hero away for, while the rest of your team is focused elsewhere.