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[Massive Chalice] Double Fine Productions' version of fantasy XCOM

valiancevaliance Registered User regular
edited June 2015 in Games and Technology
I didn't see a thread here on PA, and it's launch day and I think the game totally deserves some attention so here we go...

massive_chalice_header.png

short version: roughly fantasy X-COM on the tactical layer + a generation spanning timeline and eugenic management of heroic bloodlines on the strategic layer. Only $16 from the Humble Store: https://www.humblebundle.com/store/p/massivechalice_storefront and also on XBOX ONE

from their wiki
Massive Chalice is a single player turn-based tactics game within a multi-generational strategy campaign built for replayability.

As an immortal King or Queen, you must unite your kingdom under a powerful dynasty, eliminate the demonic threat, and reforge the Massive Chalice!

The game is structured into two main layers: strategy and tactics. In the strategy layer, you oversee your kingdom, arrange royal marriages, conduct research, and make the far-reaching decisions that will determine the fate of your legacy.

In the tactics layer, you fight brutal turn-based battles to defend your kingdom using small squads of customizable heroes.

Permadeath is inevitable: your heroes will grow, age, and eventually die. You'll have to choose between keeping your favorite heroes on the battlefield or retiring them from combat to foster a new generation of warriors.

Drawing from roguelikes we love, content is modular and randomized. Each playthrough begins with a random assortment of male and female heroes from various bloodlines, guaranteeing that each game is unique. Your knowledge and skill will increase over multiple playthroughs, but the details of every game will change based on your decisions and the whims of fate.

website: http://www.massivechalice.com/

launch trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTFiooCFh7Y

wiki: http://massivechalice.gamepedia.com/Massive_Chalice_Wiki
blog: http://blog.massivechalice.com/

I think @QuestionMarkMan and @DrIanMalcolm wrote for the game
and @MuddBudd has a nice post on it here: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/32660765#Comment_32660765

I slacker backed (kicked in money after the kickstarter ended for some--but not all--of the kickstarter rewards) the game for $100 and even before launch I felt like I'd gotten more than my moneys worth. I'd had early access to the game, a lot of opportunity to talk the devs during the process, and the ability to add a custom house/bloodline to the game. It was really cool for me to watch the game develop over the last couple years, and I think a lot of people on here will enjoy playing it. If you're into game development check out the teamstreams--livestreams where the dev team talked about the development of the game: decisions they made, their progress, the resources they had to work with etc:
Available for the XBOX ONE and PC

Also: "Massive Chalice is now available for Xbox One as this month's free Games with Gold": http://www.windowscentral.com/massive-chalice-now-available-xbox-one
so "if you're a Xbox Gold member, you have no reason to not download the game since it is free for you."

reviews:
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/massive-chalice
http://www.pcgamer.com/massive-chalice-review/

GAMEPLAY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxEhU75OHzo&index=1&list=PL5dr1EHvfwpOTz5nLoNKWrpiOy4LcMiTy

MORE GAMEPLAY: 1 HR+ GAMESPOT QUICKLOOK

http://www.gamespot.com/videos/quick-look-massive-chalice/2300-6425149/

valiance on
«1345

Posts

  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    I've kept half an eye on this game over the months because I like the idea, but to be honest, the graphics really don't work for me so that's made me very hesitant to dig deeper.

  • valiancevaliance Registered User regular
    I've kept half an eye on this game over the months because I like the idea, but to be honest, the graphics really don't work for me so that's made me very hesitant to dig deeper.

    I like the graphics, but they're definitely very stylized and a bit lo-fi maybe? dunno. its an indie game really

    these guys liked it:
    http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2015/06/02/review-massive-chalice/151549/
    Massive Chalice is the best turn-based strategy title of 2015 so far, and its unique simulation aspects make it especially intriguing. This isn’t going to be thought of as a title that can contend with XCOM on the back of its combat alone, but managing each hero’s genetic traits adds another level of depth to an already deep genre. One of the most challenging titles to come out in quite some time, Massive Chalice will cause players to fail over and over before they taste the sweetness that is victory, but every shortcoming eventually leads to an important lesson. The culmination of these small lessons is what makes Double Fine’s latest game to be addicting, consuming and utterly enjoyable. After all, that last quality is one of the most important characteristics of good game design; pick all the nits you want, Massive Chalice is incredibly engaging and that’s truly what matters.

  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    Oooh Chalice thread.

    -edit-
    Since this is on the first page, copying over my most recent Steam Thread post. I'll try to keep it updated if anything changes.

    oXDep8t.jpg

    Here's a slightly updated version of my first post about it, from when it was Early Access Kickstarter material. I was a backer, and while it still has some rough edges, it's probably the best thing I ever backed. I've had so much fun with it.


    Here's some tips:
    -I have found my personal preference for initial research is 'improved hero recruitment', then recruit a new batch of heroes. It gives you more options for regents and strong bloodlines early on, and helps with some of the demographic problems that can arise later. (too many girls, too many boys, etc...)
    -Research the health potions. Try to have a couple on hand in every mission.
    -Build a Crucible early.
    -You unlock more research options by killing. When you've killed enough Lapses (XP drainers) and Wrinklers (aging attack), you can make an item that nullifies those attacks.
    -Some classes can carry two items, so they can bring extra potions, etc... (Brewtalist, Trickshot, Blastcapper, IIRC) I find that to be a VERY powerful ability. Staggeringly so.
    -Kill enough Lapses and you can research Veil Armor, which lets hunter classes stealth anywhere. Get it.
    -Personally, right now, I find the 'monster' armors lackluster for Caberjack/Alchemist, so research the upgrades to their regular armor. It does wonders to keep people alive.
    -Researched weapons seem a bit underpowered to me atm, at least when compared to relics. You can probably ignore those for now. (Possible exception, Ramcap Caber)

    Bloodlines:
    Your starting heroes are all going to have a few negative traits, there's not much you can do about it. As long as one of them isn't a reduction of their primary stat or reduced XP gain, they are a candidate for regent. Pick the least awful heroes you have and have them start breeding. When their children come of age, pick out those with the best traits and start leveling them up. Make them a regent when their parent finally dies. Pick them a partner with complimentary stats (if both parents have the same trait, it is more likely to pass on).

    Keep doing this and each generation will start at a higher level than the last, with better stats and traits. Infertile heroes or those with bad traits can get pawned off on the Sagewrights to speed up research times. Or you can put them in the Crucible to give all active heroes bonus xp. (and possibly pass on a trait or two). The goal is to have a set of good heroes at level 10 or close to it when year 300 rolls around.

    Spoilering the rest because wall'o'text:
    Hybrids:
    Children will take their primary class from the regent, and their subclass from their parent. The hybrid class will play like the primary, but with differences based on the subclass. The short version:
    Caberjack subclass gives them more smashystun
    Alchemist sublcass gives them more explodeymelt
    Hunter sublcass gives them more shootysneak


    Relics:
    Keep in mind when these start appearing, that if you give a relic to a hero and make them a regent, they keep that relic with them until they die and pass it on. So you might not want to give it to that Caberjack with the amazing traits you are going to make regent next, and instead give it to her younger, nearsighted brother. Relics level up when used in combat, and you need them out in the world putting the smackdown on cadence. A level 10 relic is a very scary thing.

    Stuns:
    Learn to stun. I repeat. Learn to stun. Caberjacks get a straight up stun attack, but any attack with knockback will stun an enemy if you can knock them into terrain or even another cadence. Brewtalists (Alchemist/Caberjack) get a particularly nice AOE one. Ranged enemies like Bulwarks and Cradles can be particularly bad if you can't get close enough to finish them off first turn, so stunning them buys you time to get into position.

    Stealth:
    Hunters (or any hybrid with stealth, in a pinch) can stealth ahead around terrain and should be doing do. You want to know where enemies are placed, so you don't accidentally pull 2-4 extra packs when you attack. Veil Armor helps with this immensely because it removes some restrictions on hunter classes and lets them stealth basically anywhere, as long as an enemy isn't watching them when they go into stealth initially.

    Remember, you don't have a timer! Take your time, scout things out. Figure out the best approach. Sometimes you just have to charge in and try to take things down quick, but often you can use line of sight blocks to your advantage to get within striking distance without taking a lot of hits.

    Choose your battles:
    When the Cadence attack, they attack in several places at once. If you can afford to choose (IE neither of them will be fully corrupted if ignored), check out the bonus you get for each mission. Double XP is really good, or sometimes a higher level hero of a class you are low on.

    Bonuses:
    The outer territories of your nation also confer bonuses if you build on them. These are a bit randomized but can be very powerful to have. The downside is that you are more likely to lose those territories first if the Cadence overwhelm you. The boost to Crucible XP and Sagewright research bonus are great, as are the stat bonuses for the three primary classes.

    I highly recommend the purchase.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    Ah shit, I should really, really sit down and play this thing from start to finish before XCOM 2 drops.

  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    Apparently Seeds will no longer merge into Cradles.

    Which, when you first encountered it, was terrifying.

    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited June 2015
    Also, pretty sure this is free on Xbox Live right now.

    *bah* for Xbox One, not 360.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • valiancevaliance Registered User regular
    edited June 2015
    just started my new run on retail, brutal/iron mode with non-balanced start and thematic bloodlines

    first mission was a cakewalk, X-COM Ironman/Impossible this is not. But I've played enough to know it gets harder. I am of course using my custom house for one of the 5 starting bloodlines, and a buddy also has a custom house which im using.

    also read this review, which does a pretty good explanation of what the game is about. I especially like the focus on the strategic layer matchmaking as the killer app part of the game, which I agree with. I really, really enjoy the strategic layer and the min-maxing matchmaking.

    http://www.bagogames.com/sacred-bloodlines-massive-chalice-review/
    Over their fifteen year period in the video game industry, Double Fine Productions have brought us many games that we all remember fondly: Brütal Legend, Psychonauts, Stacking, Costume Quest, and more recently; Broken Age. When you look at the gameplay of these titles, you’ll notice they’re all quite different. Brütal Legend is a strange mix of real time strategy and action, Psychonauts is just a straight up action game, Costume Quest is like a light RPG, Stacking is a puzzle game, and Broken Age is a point and click adventure. It’s hard to think of many development teams that manage to pull off so many varied gameplay styles, and still manage to consistently create games we all love. And would you believe they’ve managed to do it again?

    Massive Chalice–also stylized as MASSIVE CHALICE (see, because the text is massive)–is primarily a turn based strategy game, with elements of “Nation Management” simulation mixed in. The best way I could describe it as quickly as possible is like this: It’s gameplay is incredibly similar to XCOM: Enemy Unknown–except it has lots of jokes, arranged marriages, and big fat clubs and crossbows. So maybe now you’re thinking “So it’s just an XCOM ripoff? I’ll just play XCOM!”. Well, I was a bit iffy about this at first, myself; But when I actually got into Massive Chalice, I was completely surprised by unique and complicated it got.

    Displaying CHALICE.png

    Massive Chalice takes place in a nameless kingdom known as “The Nation”. The Nation is under siege by an evil entity known as The Cadence. The Cadence corrupts everything it touches, and is slowly devouring the nation. You essentially play the role of the king of this nation, who commands the building of new structures, research, and dictates which territories you defend from Cadence attacks.

    The only way to completely wipe out The Cadence is via a giant, magical chalice. This chalice (for whatever reason) can talk, and has two separate “personalities” attached to it; A bull headed man, and a more level headed woman. They give you instructions on how to proceed and combat the corrosive Cadence, while also providing some comedic relief by constantly arguing and bickering over everything. The goal of Massive Chalice is to survive for 300 years, (Yes, years) so that the chalice can charge up some magical cleansing spell and wipe out The Cadence for good.

    Much like XCOM: Enemy Unknwon, the majority of Massive Chalice‘s gameplay takes place on the nation overview screen. Here you can see all the territories in your kingdom. You’ll start out with a capital building, and a keep in the center territories. The Cadence attacks from the outer territories inwards, and if it reaches your capital, you lose. You can also conduct research at your capital. This can range from increasing weapon efficiency, discovering new items for your heroes, finding more hereos to join your cause, or building new buildings. Every so often, The Cadence will attack two territories, and you must choose which to defend with your heroes. The Cadence can successfully attack a territory three times before it’s gone forever, and you no longer have control over it. Luckily, if you repel an attack after a territory has been corrupted once or twice, you can lower the “Corruption counter” so to speak.

    The most important building is the keep. You can appoint a regent to every keep you build, along with a partner. The goal here is to pair two heroes together that can have children, creating a bloodline, and giving you new hero trainees. This is definitely one of the focus points of Massive Chalice. You must be careful though, as children will inherit their parents’ traits; Including bad ones. There’s a lot of strategy involved in figuring out who will make the best babies, but long bloodlines will allow you access to young and powerful heroes to combat The Cadence.

    Displaying Massive-Chalice-screenshot-hires-004.png

    Earlier I mentioned that it will take 300 years to win the game. Again, like XCOM, long periods of time are condensed into a few seconds. In XCOM, a minute of real time will equal maybe about a week in game–whereas in Massive Chalice, one minute will equal about a decade. This is where things start getting very interesting. You see, The Cadence doesn’t attack every five seconds; It takes several years. Unfortunately this means that if you repel an attack with a team of young, spry heroes–they could easily die of old age before they even see combat again. This is why bloodlines are so important, because if you aren’t raising children, you’re suddenly going to find that your allstar team of Cadence killers are a bunch of geezers that have asthma attacks any time they run ten feet. (That isn’t a joke, this really happened to me.)

    While I believe this is the most unique and interesting aspect of Massive Chalice, it’s also one of the most annoying aspects. The game doesn’t pull punches. If you aren’t on the ball with recruiting heroes or churning out babies, you’re going to quickly find yourself in a bad situation. Unfortunately, to new players, having all of these things to think about can be very stressful and overwhelming. While I really enjoy this mechanic, sometimes I think that I’M getting gray hairs in a matter of seconds just like my heroes do.

    You can also appoint heroes to do other jobs rather than just regency–you can have them act as Sagewrights, which give you research boosts, or trainers to give your heroes yearly XP boosts, giving them a chance to level up without even being in battle. Unfortunately, giving a hero these jobs means they can’t fight against The Cadence, so you must choose who you appoint carefully.

    Displaying Massive-Chalice-screenshot-hires-002.png

    All this talk about fighting, I should probably explain the actual fighting. As I said, The Cadence will attack every so often, and you must dispatch up to five heroes to combat them. The Cadence creates a variety of creatures–known as pawns–that you must fight. These guys range from normal little attack drone, to massive rock-like creatures, to my personal favorite: A creature that, when it hits a hero, literally pulls a Last Crusade and makes your hero age rapidly. Though it’s actually pretty easy to kill these enemies, they shouldn’t underestimated, because they can still really mess you up.

    Your heroes can have a variety of classes, which mostly encompass the standard fantasy classes: Archer guy, Warrior Guy, Magical Guy, etc. etc. These heroes are controlled in a turn based fashion on a grid map, and can each use different skills to get an edge on the pawns. If your heroes manage to do well over the course of several battles, they will create relics, which are usually powerful weapons. This is another important aspect of bloodlines, because once a hero dies, their relic must be passed to a relative, and if there are none, the relic must be destroyed.

    While I do find combat very balanced and entertaining, I have to say that a majority of the maps you fight on are ludicrously boring and ugly. Most of the time I you seem to find yourself in an area that consists of mostly shades of gray, and it’s just–bleh. A few times I did find myself in a lush forest, with bright leaves scattered across the ground. This was definitely the most beautiful of the maps, but it only occurred rarely. It may just be that I was unlucky in the time I played the game, so don’t let this turn you off completely. With that aside, the art style in Massive Chalice is very very nice. It’s definitely got that Double Fine charm to it. The soundtrack is also great–especially the battle tunes.

    Displaying MC-dynamic-screenshot-005.png

    So in conclusion: Massive Chalice is an incredibly unique and interesting game–if you can get passed the initial difficulty. Combat is pretty darn fun, but it’s definitely not the main draw of the game, I’d say. Managing your nation is very unique, and allows for lots of strategy. When I first started up Massive Chalice, I figured it was just going to be a tactical combat strategy game, but in the end it’s closer to a light grand strategy simulation. I was pleasantly surprised by how addicting it became. If you enjoyed XCOM: Enemy Unkown‘s gameplay, and want more emphasis on kingdom management rather than combat, you’d probably like Massive Chalice.

    STRENGTHS
    - Nation management is incredibly interesting and unique
    - Fun tactical combat
    - Entertaining banter from The Chalice
    WEAKNESSES
    - Managing The Nation can be overwhelming and difficult at first
    - Most combat maps are incredibly boring to look at

    valiance on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited June 2015
    My current strategy is now often to first research higher level hero recruitment, then recruit a new batch. Gives more options for those first few regents, you know?

    Also definitely the potions.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • valiancevaliance Registered User regular
    on the doublefine forums I think the best build order people had worked out for beta was: http://www.doublefine.com/forums/viewthread/16712/P75/
    1. keep#2
    2. crucible
    3. armor or keep#3

    I'm trying to decide whether that holds up in retail.

    Your fertility--having enough people for a fighting force, for regents and partners, for sagewrights and crucibles, and enough redundancy in case the worst happens, is a huge priority. You can supplement with hero recruitment, but being self sufficient is important I think.

    Probably the second biggest priority is your experience gain. If you can get ahead of the level curve, you'll have a much easier time. So the early crucible is really nice, and feeding the proper heroes XP in the first few battles can make a big difference. My very first keep has a level 3 regent and level 3 partner at year 0.

    Early on you also probably want to have some tactical advantage: potions, or vitalibands or armor before you go up against the first sets of really tough enemies, usually cradles at year 60 and wrinklers at year 70. Don't invest it all in the strategic layer: keeps, crucibles, sagewrights, and neglect the ability to actually win battles!

    --

    I'm having a lot of fun with the XP farming and the challenge of brutal level difficulty. I am also really enjoying setting up matches and balancing age, class, traits, and XP while doing so.

  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    Early crucible does sound pretty useful.

    A good order might be...
    1. Recruit new heroes (because generally only one or two of your starters will be really appealing for Regent work)
    2. Keep #2
    3. Crucible
    4. Armor/Weapon research, etc...

    I got lucky with my new game and had a pretty strong Alchemist I was able to start a bloodline with, who also had my backer relic. A few years later a random event gave both parents in that keep the Patriotic trait as well, which has started to filter into my Vanguard soldiers. Woo!

    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • QuestionMarkManQuestionMarkMan Registered User regular
    valiance wrote: »
    I think @QuestionMarkMan and @DrIanMalcolm wrote for the game
    We did! And I was a backer, too so this whole experience has been really, really surreal. I'm so glad people seem to be enjoying it though, we all worked super hard on it and I would gladly work on another project with Brad and the rest of the team.

  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    I've only just dipped into the game but the tactical battles are fun, the animations are satisfying and the general presentation has been a lot of fun. I can't wait to see how the simulation layer plays out over time.

  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    valiance wrote: »
    I think @QuestionMarkMan and @DrIanMalcolm wrote for the game
    We did! And I was a backer, too so this whole experience has been really, really surreal. I'm so glad people seem to be enjoying it though, we all worked super hard on it and I would gladly work on another project with Brad and the rest of the team.

    Anything specific in it that you wrote?

    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • DrIanMalcolmDrIanMalcolm Registered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    valiance wrote: »
    I think @QuestionMarkMan and @DrIanMalcolm wrote for the game
    We did! And I was a backer, too so this whole experience has been really, really surreal. I'm so glad people seem to be enjoying it though, we all worked super hard on it and I would gladly work on another project with Brad and the rest of the team.

    Anything specific in it that you wrote?

    When we came on they had already been working on the game for a year and basically just had the premise and that was it. So we did all the worldbuilding, dialogue, random events, enemy names, item descriptions, etc. :D

  • FremFrem Registered User regular
    I was listening to the lead Double Fine guy for this game on Designer Notes. My main takeaway was that:

    - It's like XCOM, but soldiers who don't fall in combat will eventually die of old age.
    - There is an enemy called "The Wrinkler" that ages characters when it touches them.
    - WHAT
    - WHAT?!

  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    Oh god I hate Wrinklers so much. But then, I hate all the Cadence.

    Still, Wrinklers and Lapses suck especially hard.

    Lapse, when they hit you, drain your XP. This can result in your hero losing levels. Wrinklers age your hero by about 5 years PER HIT.

    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • AstaleAstale Registered User regular
    Has "your people get old and die" EVER been a fun mechanic?

    In anything?

  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    Astale wrote: »
    Has "your people get old and die" EVER been a fun mechanic?

    In anything?

    Crusader Kings II.

    Granted, 'fun' is a relative term when dealing with succession crises, but at least it's an exciting period of great activity before everything settles down again into stability.

  • SproutSprout Registered User regular
    It works well here. That's mostly because you're using your troops to set up your own delightful eugenics program and there are weapons that level up that you can pass down within your families.

    And your new jacks coming up start out better than their predecessors did, so the "my awesome dude died so now I'm stuck with this crappy new guy" effect is mitigated somewhat.

  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    I haven't played since before hybrid classes and relics were implemented, but early on it mostly felt kind of bad having any individual unit only around for like... Two battles at most, and maybe they're super old in that second battle where they were super young in the first one.

  • SproutSprout Registered User regular
    It feels like they've upped the cadence (no pun intended) of attacks since the earlier part of the beta, so you get 3-4 fights out of a guy now.

  • FreiFrei A French Prometheus Unbound DeadwoodRegistered User regular
    This isn't a game where you get attached to a particular unit at all, that's just a silly way to go into it. The thing you get attached to is your bloodline. With enough time and careful breeding you can get some really strong bloodlines, and they'll earn relics for their family, so you'll see "Oh yeah, that's such and such bloodline, probably my best one." instead of just thinking that about one particular unit. And, your bloodlines can die out just like a regular unit would if you aren't careful, or you can mess up their build in other ways.

    Are you the magic man?
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited June 2015
    Thread title caught my attention. If I get this, it would be on Steam. This game is on Steam, right?

    Are there any other trailers, maybe that showcase more gameplay? The one in the OP only shows like 3-4 seconds of actual combat gameplay.

    Lucascraft on
  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
  • FreiFrei A French Prometheus Unbound DeadwoodRegistered User regular
    edited June 2015
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Thread title caught my attention. If I get this, it would be on Steam. This game is on Steam, right?

    Are there any other trailers, maybe that showcase more gameplay? The one in the OP only shows like 3-4 seconds of actual combat gameplay.

    go to youtube and search for Massive Chalice gameplay.

    Frei on
    Are you the magic man?
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    Started the game and its pretty decent.

    I kind of wish they did that "general direction noise" that XCOM does. Can be annoying finding the last tucked away enemy at times.

  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    Astale wrote: »
    Has "your people get old and die" EVER been a fun mechanic?

    In anything?

    If they killed enough Cadence before they died, you might get a Relic.

    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • valiancevaliance Registered User regular
    edited June 2015
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Thread title caught my attention. If I get this, it would be on Steam. This game is on Steam, right?

    Are there any other trailers, maybe that showcase more gameplay? The one in the OP only shows like 3-4 seconds of actual combat gameplay.

    It is indeed on steam, and I added someone's lets play to the OP. Thanks for the suggestion.
    Frem wrote: »
    I was listening to the lead Double Fine guy for this game on Designer Notes. My main takeaway was that:

    - It's like XCOM, but soldiers who don't fall in combat will eventually die of old age.
    - There is an enemy called "The Wrinkler" that ages characters when it touches them.
    - WHAT
    - WHAT?!

    :biggrin: its as awful/amazing as it sounds. The idea is you're fighting a multigenerational 300 year war against demonic enemies. So your heroes settle down and have kids, and the kids continue the war, and then their kids the same thing, until you get to the end. So having people naturally age and die is a part of the chosen timescale of the game, and part of the reasoning behind it was to actually making perma-death sting *less*. Since everyone is going to die anyway, you're perhaps less miffed if you lose any individual unit. Anyone interested in the design decisions is encouraged to watch the teamstreams to see how they came up with their ideas, its all really fun, well thought out stuff.

    Anyway the Wrinklers ages characters on touch, and its horrible, but an amazing concept. If you enjoy difficult games, well MC is right up your alley.

    valiance on
  • vegeta_666vegeta_666 CanadaRegistered User regular
    My issue right now with the game is the lack of custom houses.

    I was a backer and I wanted to get my own house into the game but lacked the funds to do so at the time. I messaged Double Fine on Kickstarter and asked if they planned to allow users to also create at least one custom house per game even if they didn't back at the $100 tier. They said yes that would be an option and I was satisfied with that. Actual quote:
    Yup! You'll be able to customize the text and color options of your starting houses in-game, as well as the first names of any heroic offspring. You won't have access to the sigil editor though and will probably select from the giant list of backer-submitted sigils.

    Thanks for backing and joining us for MASSIVE CHALICE! :D

    - John Swisshelm, Designer

    Now that option isn't there at release, and I can see why some would feel it would cheapen their backing to get their own house into the game, but, there are also many people who will come to this game just on Steam or Xbox and find the lack of customization disappointing. From what I've heard they might add in later, but it really should have been in there at launch.

    Sob24Nm.png
    Steam: abunchofdaftpunk | PSN: noautomobilesgo | Lastfm: sjchszeppelin | Backloggery: colincummings | 3DS FC: 1392-6019-0219 |
  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    vegeta_666 wrote: »
    My issue right now with the game is the lack of custom houses.

    I was a backer and I wanted to get my own house into the game but lacked the funds to do so at the time. I messaged Double Fine on Kickstarter and asked if they planned to allow users to also create at least one custom house per game even if they didn't back at the $100 tier. They said yes that would be an option and I was satisfied with that. Actual quote:
    Yup! You'll be able to customize the text and color options of your starting houses in-game, as well as the first names of any heroic offspring. You won't have access to the sigil editor though and will probably select from the giant list of backer-submitted sigils.

    Thanks for backing and joining us for MASSIVE CHALICE! :D

    - John Swisshelm, Designer

    Now that option isn't there at release, and I can see why some would feel it would cheapen their backing to get their own house into the game, but, there are also many people who will come to this game just on Steam or Xbox and find the lack of customization disappointing. From what I've heard they might add in later, but it really should have been in there at launch.

    I have to totally disagree with you. Putting that in the game wouldn't just cheapen it for the backers, but would basically be saying "Hey, all you people who paid $100 so you could have your custom house in the game, fuck you!" to them. If the custom house was like a $10 or $15 reward, sure, putting it in the game wouldn't be a big deal, but it was the $100 tier, and doing that would be a huge dick move.

    I will agree, though, that them even telling you it would be available and then not doing it is also a dick move. But not as big a dick move as it would have been to include it.

    PSN|AspectVoid
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    Intended features always get dropped over time as a project goes on, unfortunately.

    Well, they do if you have good management.

    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • valiancevaliance Registered User regular
    vegeta_666 wrote: »
    My issue right now with the game is the lack of custom houses.

    I was a backer and I wanted to get my own house into the game but lacked the funds to do so at the time. I messaged Double Fine on Kickstarter and asked if they planned to allow users to also create at least one custom house per game even if they didn't back at the $100 tier. They said yes that would be an option and I was satisfied with that. Actual quote:
    Yup! You'll be able to customize the text and color options of your starting houses in-game, as well as the first names of any heroic offspring. You won't have access to the sigil editor though and will probably select from the giant list of backer-submitted sigils.

    Thanks for backing and joining us for MASSIVE CHALICE! :D

    - John Swisshelm, Designer

    Now that option isn't there at release, and I can see why some would feel it would cheapen their backing to get their own house into the game, but, there are also many people who will come to this game just on Steam or Xbox and find the lack of customization disappointing. From what I've heard they might add in later, but it really should have been in there at launch.

    in my experience DF staff have been really friendly and easy to talk to, I would send your concerns over to them, I'd be curious to see what they say if you don't mind sharing. Having followed development extensively, I never heard of this feature, but I agree it'd be a good one to add, especially if it was promised.
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    My current strategy is now often to first research higher level hero recruitment, then recruit a new batch. Gives more options for those first few regents, you know?

    Also definitely the potions.

    I think the most common cause of a failed run (on the strategic layer at least) is some kind of demographic crisis: not enough boys, not enough girls, or most commonly not enough heroes in general. I think your early recruitment boost strategy might actually be optimal. I'm running into some rough patches now and recruiting level 1 heroes to patch the holes in my lineup isn't going to work for long. I made the early crucible and I'm regretting it now. Those 19 years could have been spent researching a recruitment boost, which would have finished just as I started to get all these holes in my lineup.

    I also have to second the potion love. I used to always go vitalibands in beta, back when they gave 30% health and not the current 20%, but I think potions are better as of right now: faster to research, give more health, and more versatile. Don't get me wrong, vitalibands are great, especially if you have 2 item slots: they give you an hp buffer to not get 1 shot, the extra health is always on and not potential health sitting in an item, you dont have to spend an action to use them (which is huge!) and so on. But I think for the early tactical advantage health potions are the way to go right now.

  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited June 2015
    Oh, also... there was a glitch with potions in the beta, I dunno if they fixed it but I reported it. Specifically with the 'Thrown Item' skill on Boomstrikers. (which allows you to throw your health potion and heal at a distance)
    If you do things in the right order, you can get two ultralixirs for the price of one (presumably the elixir too).

    Scenario A:
    -Throw Potion at wounded ally
    -Wait a Turn
    -Elixir ability is now gray with a counter of zero, you are done healing

    Scenario B:
    -Walk up to a hero and heal them with an elixir
    -Wait a Turn
    -Thrown Item ability is still available, allowing you to heal a second hero without having carried two elixirs.

    If they haven't fixed that, abuse the hell out of it.

    -edit-

    Also, having the double items is great but basically one of those slots, for me, always goes to Wunderpants to make my people immune the negative effects of Lapses and Wrinklers.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    Can we talk about how much Massive Chalice sounds like the title of a medieval fantasy vampire porno?

  • vegeta_666vegeta_666 CanadaRegistered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    vegeta_666 wrote: »
    My issue right now with the game is the lack of custom houses.

    I was a backer and I wanted to get my own house into the game but lacked the funds to do so at the time. I messaged Double Fine on Kickstarter and asked if they planned to allow users to also create at least one custom house per game even if they didn't back at the $100 tier. They said yes that would be an option and I was satisfied with that. Actual quote:
    Yup! You'll be able to customize the text and color options of your starting houses in-game, as well as the first names of any heroic offspring. You won't have access to the sigil editor though and will probably select from the giant list of backer-submitted sigils.

    Thanks for backing and joining us for MASSIVE CHALICE! :D

    - John Swisshelm, Designer

    Now that option isn't there at release, and I can see why some would feel it would cheapen their backing to get their own house into the game, but, there are also many people who will come to this game just on Steam or Xbox and find the lack of customization disappointing. From what I've heard they might add in later, but it really should have been in there at launch.

    I have to totally disagree with you. Putting that in the game wouldn't just cheapen it for the backers, but would basically be saying "Hey, all you people who paid $100 so you could have your custom house in the game, fuck you!" to them. If the custom house was like a $10 or $15 reward, sure, putting it in the game wouldn't be a big deal, but it was the $100 tier, and doing that would be a huge dick move.

    I will agree, though, that them even telling you it would be available and then not doing it is also a dick move. But not as big a dick move as it would have been to include it.

    The thing is, the $100 reward allows you to get your own sigil in the game and allows your house to populate every game. Your name could show up for everyone who has bought it. I would just like the ability to create a house for just my own personal game.

    I agree it would cheapen those who backed at that level, so maybe that reward wasn't a good idea in the first place, as it locks them out of this customization option. The game is quite simple in many ways (which is not a problem necessarily) and not being able to name at least one house takes away from the interest I have in playing it.

    Sob24Nm.png
    Steam: abunchofdaftpunk | PSN: noautomobilesgo | Lastfm: sjchszeppelin | Backloggery: colincummings | 3DS FC: 1392-6019-0219 |
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited June 2015
    valiance wrote: »
    I think the most common cause of a failed run (on the strategic layer at least) is some kind of demographic crisis: not enough boys, not enough girls, or most commonly not enough heroes in general. I think your early recruitment boost strategy might actually be optimal. I'm running into some rough patches now and recruiting level 1 heroes to patch the holes in my lineup isn't going to work for long. I made the early crucible and I'm regretting it now. Those 19 years could have been spent researching a recruitment boost, which would have finished just as I started to get all these holes in my lineup.

    I'm actually torn on what is best in this regard.

    Recruitment boost, then Recruit
    or
    Recruit, then Crucible

    The recruitment boost does give you a bit of a jumpstart on your bloodlines, but in the long run, the Crucible is the more efficient use of research time. That recruitment boost won't be as useful in year 250 when your bloodlines are hopefully giving you lvl 8-10 heroes.

    Either way, an early recruitment seems critical, as I rarely seem to find myself with enough heroes to start up alchemist, hunter, and caberjack bloodlines and still be able to field a competent vanguard. Not to mention that I tend to like having two alchemists bloodlines (or two keeps of the same alchemist bloodline), because I like the hunter/caber + alchemist hybrids the best and want to make sure there are enough of them to go around.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    vegeta_666 wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    vegeta_666 wrote: »
    My issue right now with the game is the lack of custom houses.

    I was a backer and I wanted to get my own house into the game but lacked the funds to do so at the time. I messaged Double Fine on Kickstarter and asked if they planned to allow users to also create at least one custom house per game even if they didn't back at the $100 tier. They said yes that would be an option and I was satisfied with that. Actual quote:
    Yup! You'll be able to customize the text and color options of your starting houses in-game, as well as the first names of any heroic offspring. You won't have access to the sigil editor though and will probably select from the giant list of backer-submitted sigils.

    Thanks for backing and joining us for MASSIVE CHALICE! :D

    - John Swisshelm, Designer

    Now that option isn't there at release, and I can see why some would feel it would cheapen their backing to get their own house into the game, but, there are also many people who will come to this game just on Steam or Xbox and find the lack of customization disappointing. From what I've heard they might add in later, but it really should have been in there at launch.

    I have to totally disagree with you. Putting that in the game wouldn't just cheapen it for the backers, but would basically be saying "Hey, all you people who paid $100 so you could have your custom house in the game, fuck you!" to them. If the custom house was like a $10 or $15 reward, sure, putting it in the game wouldn't be a big deal, but it was the $100 tier, and doing that would be a huge dick move.

    I will agree, though, that them even telling you it would be available and then not doing it is also a dick move. But not as big a dick move as it would have been to include it.

    The thing is, the $100 reward allows you to get your own sigil in the game and allows your house to populate every game. Your name could show up for everyone who has bought it. I would just like the ability to create a house for just my own personal game.

    I agree it would cheapen those who backed at that level, so maybe that reward wasn't a good idea in the first place, as it locks them out of this customization option. The game is quite simple in many ways (which is not a problem necessarily) and not being able to name at least one house takes away from the interest I have in playing it.

    I won't argue that it might not have been the best allowed, but we gotta live in the world where they did it, and thus releasing the customization (at least at launch) to everyone devalues that particular goal, and could cost them good will on the next project they decide to Kickstart. Its certainly a nasty balancing game they ended up in.

    PSN|AspectVoid
  • valiancevaliance Registered User regular
    edited June 2015
    vegeta_666 wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    vegeta_666 wrote: »
    My issue right now with the game is the lack of custom houses.

    I was a backer and I wanted to get my own house into the game but lacked the funds to do so at the time. I messaged Double Fine on Kickstarter and asked if they planned to allow users to also create at least one custom house per game even if they didn't back at the $100 tier. They said yes that would be an option and I was satisfied with that. Actual quote:
    Yup! You'll be able to customize the text and color options of your starting houses in-game, as well as the first names of any heroic offspring. You won't have access to the sigil editor though and will probably select from the giant list of backer-submitted sigils.

    Thanks for backing and joining us for MASSIVE CHALICE! :D

    - John Swisshelm, Designer

    Now that option isn't there at release, and I can see why some would feel it would cheapen their backing to get their own house into the game, but, there are also many people who will come to this game just on Steam or Xbox and find the lack of customization disappointing. From what I've heard they might add in later, but it really should have been in there at launch.

    I have to totally disagree with you. Putting that in the game wouldn't just cheapen it for the backers, but would basically be saying "Hey, all you people who paid $100 so you could have your custom house in the game, fuck you!" to them. If the custom house was like a $10 or $15 reward, sure, putting it in the game wouldn't be a big deal, but it was the $100 tier, and doing that would be a huge dick move.

    I will agree, though, that them even telling you it would be available and then not doing it is also a dick move. But not as big a dick move as it would have been to include it.

    The thing is, the $100 reward allows you to get your own sigil in the game and allows your house to populate every game. Your name could show up for everyone who has bought it. I would just like the ability to create a house for just my own personal game.

    I agree it would cheapen those who backed at that level, so maybe that reward wasn't a good idea in the first place, as it locks them out of this customization option. The game is quite simple in many ways (which is not a problem necessarily) and not being able to name at least one house takes away from the interest I have in playing it.

    As someone who kickstarted at $100 I wouldn't really mind if people got to put their own houses in their own games. After all my house is in everyone's game, your house is just in your own. Maybe some sort of house renamer at the low end, with a full on sigil customizer at the high end.

    Honestly I'm good with whatever added features allow them to do an expansion or a sequel. So if patching something in gets them the sales they need for an expansion pack, I'm all for it.

    I'm surprised at your description of the game as simple though. What makes you say that?

    valiance on
  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    valiance wrote: »
    vegeta_666 wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    vegeta_666 wrote: »
    My issue right now with the game is the lack of custom houses.

    I was a backer and I wanted to get my own house into the game but lacked the funds to do so at the time. I messaged Double Fine on Kickstarter and asked if they planned to allow users to also create at least one custom house per game even if they didn't back at the $100 tier. They said yes that would be an option and I was satisfied with that. Actual quote:
    Yup! You'll be able to customize the text and color options of your starting houses in-game, as well as the first names of any heroic offspring. You won't have access to the sigil editor though and will probably select from the giant list of backer-submitted sigils.

    Thanks for backing and joining us for MASSIVE CHALICE! :D

    - John Swisshelm, Designer

    Now that option isn't there at release, and I can see why some would feel it would cheapen their backing to get their own house into the game, but, there are also many people who will come to this game just on Steam or Xbox and find the lack of customization disappointing. From what I've heard they might add in later, but it really should have been in there at launch.

    I have to totally disagree with you. Putting that in the game wouldn't just cheapen it for the backers, but would basically be saying "Hey, all you people who paid $100 so you could have your custom house in the game, fuck you!" to them. If the custom house was like a $10 or $15 reward, sure, putting it in the game wouldn't be a big deal, but it was the $100 tier, and doing that would be a huge dick move.

    I will agree, though, that them even telling you it would be available and then not doing it is also a dick move. But not as big a dick move as it would have been to include it.

    The thing is, the $100 reward allows you to get your own sigil in the game and allows your house to populate every game. Your name could show up for everyone who has bought it. I would just like the ability to create a house for just my own personal game.

    I agree it would cheapen those who backed at that level, so maybe that reward wasn't a good idea in the first place, as it locks them out of this customization option. The game is quite simple in many ways (which is not a problem necessarily) and not being able to name at least one house takes away from the interest I have in playing it.

    As someone who kickstarted at $100 I wouldn't really mind if people got to put their own houses in their own games. After all my house is in everyone's game, your house is just in your own. Maybe some sort of house renamer at the low end, with a full on sigil customizer at the high end.

    Honestly I'm good with whatever added features allow them to do an expansion or a sequel. So if patching something in gets them the sales they need for an expansion pack, I'm all for it.

    I'm surprised at your description of the game as simple though. What makes you say that?

    Which house is yours? I'll have to start using it.

    PSN|AspectVoid
  • valiancevaliance Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    valiance wrote: »
    vegeta_666 wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    vegeta_666 wrote: »
    My issue right now with the game is the lack of custom houses.

    I was a backer and I wanted to get my own house into the game but lacked the funds to do so at the time. I messaged Double Fine on Kickstarter and asked if they planned to allow users to also create at least one custom house per game even if they didn't back at the $100 tier. They said yes that would be an option and I was satisfied with that. Actual quote:
    Yup! You'll be able to customize the text and color options of your starting houses in-game, as well as the first names of any heroic offspring. You won't have access to the sigil editor though and will probably select from the giant list of backer-submitted sigils.

    Thanks for backing and joining us for MASSIVE CHALICE! :D

    - John Swisshelm, Designer

    Now that option isn't there at release, and I can see why some would feel it would cheapen their backing to get their own house into the game, but, there are also many people who will come to this game just on Steam or Xbox and find the lack of customization disappointing. From what I've heard they might add in later, but it really should have been in there at launch.

    I have to totally disagree with you. Putting that in the game wouldn't just cheapen it for the backers, but would basically be saying "Hey, all you people who paid $100 so you could have your custom house in the game, fuck you!" to them. If the custom house was like a $10 or $15 reward, sure, putting it in the game wouldn't be a big deal, but it was the $100 tier, and doing that would be a huge dick move.

    I will agree, though, that them even telling you it would be available and then not doing it is also a dick move. But not as big a dick move as it would have been to include it.

    The thing is, the $100 reward allows you to get your own sigil in the game and allows your house to populate every game. Your name could show up for everyone who has bought it. I would just like the ability to create a house for just my own personal game.

    I agree it would cheapen those who backed at that level, so maybe that reward wasn't a good idea in the first place, as it locks them out of this customization option. The game is quite simple in many ways (which is not a problem necessarily) and not being able to name at least one house takes away from the interest I have in playing it.

    As someone who kickstarted at $100 I wouldn't really mind if people got to put their own houses in their own games. After all my house is in everyone's game, your house is just in your own. Maybe some sort of house renamer at the low end, with a full on sigil customizer at the high end.

    Honestly I'm good with whatever added features allow them to do an expansion or a sequel. So if patching something in gets them the sales they need for an expansion pack, I'm all for it.

    I'm surprised at your description of the game as simple though. What makes you say that?

    Which house is yours? I'll have to start using it.

    I'm House Touray. Buddy of mine is House Marino. Wish I was more of an artist. My banner does not bode well for any future careers in art...

    To expand on my previous point about complexity, I felt like the X-COM strategic layer was a very simplistic satellite spam with some interceptor spam for flavor. Not a ton to think about, even in Long War.

    Sure the tactical layer in MC is a bit simpler than in X-COM: no overwatch, no cover system, less enemy types; but the strategic layer is way more complex in MC than in X-COM. You're balancing age, traits, experience, gender and class to make your matches. You have to think about how to rotate troops in and out of combat so you can get high level regents in your keeps. You need to balance buildings and research. Tactical investments to win fights, like healing potions and armor research need to be balanced against strategic considerations like fertility research and buildings.

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