I also kind of wish it was different characters all together, but the fact that Karnaca is Corvo's home town does make it interesting. Being 15 years later, I wonder if Corvo is going to have some significant mastery of his powers now or something.
I played through the main game a good 3 or so times, I had a playthrough where I killed just the targets and noone else, then I did the completely nonlethal, then a did the sneaky but completely lethal where I murdered everything. I went through Knife of Dunwall both nonlethal and highly lethal, and Brigmore Witches I've done the nonlethal, but I haven't yet gone back to do a highly lethal just yet.
About the only thing I haven't done yet is tried to play it like a straight up FPS action game, though I've seen some videos of people who have done some very impressive things with the combat. I did run into a slight issue where I was playing on the new hardest difficulty in Knife of Dunwall while doing the high chaos run... I was not prepared for a forced boss fight at the end of that. It took many many tries considering I died in like 2 hits... I think I ended up restarting the final level and upgrading my armor so I didn't die quite so fast. Eventually did complete it, but damn.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited June 2015
I saw a video of a guy using those wire mines in the most insane manner.
He would slide past guys on the ground and attach mines to them as he passed.
Or slide under a table and stick a mine under it, then they'd run past it.
High chaos is the best way to go, IMO. It's a bit unbelievable that regicide, kidnapping, and a rat plague would lead to a happy ending for all involved. And, like someone else said, the last level is so much better, with the remaining Hounds Pit conspirators desperate and cornered. So, I'm excited that this looks like it largely follows from that version of events.
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I am so excited about this and the fact you can play as a woman (Emily) is like delicious icing on the cake. Totally happy to see her being the other MC in the game.
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited June 2015
You could also use time stop (full time stop) to just walk straight past people to steal things, walk through security gates, or complete objectives, as well as possession to walk people off to switch off things so you could pass, or out behind an alley so you could choke them with impunity. Plus possessing rats and fish and stuff.
You could use the super jump to leap up and land on a guy without stabbing him. It would knock him down without killing him. You could also blink to do this.
The super sprint and super jump were also really useful for getting across heavily guarded areas and leaping up into places quickly during a time stop. You could combine super jump and blink.
You could even blink behind a guy who had "spotted" you but wasn't alert yet, then choke him.
It wasn't just sneaking up and choking and sleeping darts.
There was just more combat stuff.
There was a lot of clever pacifist stuff you could do with power combinations.
I just didn't learn most of it until near the end of the game.
I bet you could get through the entire game post acquiring human possession without choking anyone or sleeping anyone. Just continuously using blink and possession and nothing else. As long as you don't make a noise behind them or hang around guards who have been possessed are too busy vomiting their guts out to hear you sneak off.
They just go "what the flying fuck just happened?" and groggily wander back to their post.
Add time stop to that and I bet you could go through the whole game without killing, knocking out or sleeping anyone at all.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Very happy that though there are two characters, they made the lady the face of the game. You don't see that ever really.
Except for Tomb Raider, Metroid, Portal, Mirror's Edge, Remember Me, Crypt of the Necrodancer, Recettear, and all the other games with females leads. But yeah sure, this is groundbreaking....
General_Armchair on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Very happy that though there are two characters, they made the lady the face of the game. You don't see that ever really.
Except for Tomb Raider, Metroid, Portal, Mirror's Edge, Remember Me, Crypt of the Necrodancer, Recettear, and all the other games with females leads. But yeah sure, this is groundbreaking....
You didn't pay attention to half of his sentence.
Generally when there is a male and a female, ie two playable main characters, the female is secondary. Especially as the main face of the game.
As far as i know every game you just listed has a single female playable main character. Hence irrelevant. I haven't played the last three though.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Yep, that's the exact type of video I was talking about. There is some crazy shit you can pull off in the game for sure. I love Arkane's combat... I hope Bethesda gets them in to help them with TES6's combat or something, because god damn.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited June 2015
It is still my favourite thing to time stop and walk straight past a group of guards in a hallway outside the room you want, ransack it, time stop and walk past them again to the exit.
That and walking through those death gates unharmed.
Craziness.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Very happy that though there are two characters, they made the lady the face of the game. You don't see that ever really.
Except for Tomb Raider, Metroid, Portal, Mirror's Edge, Remember Me, Crypt of the Necrodancer, Recettear, and all the other games with females leads. But yeah sure, this is groundbreaking....
Did you actually read what he wrote?
What male character is also in any of those games as a main playable lead?
Edit: Also a handful of examples of series (largely) with a female lead doesn't change the fact it's actually fairly rare to have a female as the main protagonist of a game. Dishonored having one is still exciting for many, especially given how often women are overlooked for "Multiple males all together!" (Cough Unity and Far Cry 4).
Very happy that though there are two characters, they made the lady the face of the game. You don't see that ever really.
Except for Tomb Raider, Metroid, Portal, Mirror's Edge, Remember Me, Crypt of the Necrodancer, Recettear, and all the other games with females leads. But yeah sure, this is groundbreaking....
Whenever there Is a choice of gender, the men are always front and center. In advertising, boxart, and demonstrations the dude is almost always used. See Mass Effect, Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Dragon Age, and many others.
You could also use time stop (full time stop) to just walk straight past people to steal things, walk through security gates, or complete objectives, as well as possession to walk people off to switch off things so you could pass, or out behind an alley so you could choke them with impunity. Plus possessing rats and fish and stuff.
I always liked the one at 1 minute (potential Dishonored spoilers elsewhere in video if someone hasn't played it):
Very happy that though there are two characters, they made the lady the face of the game. You don't see that ever really.
Except for Tomb Raider, Metroid, Portal, Mirror's Edge, Remember Me, Crypt of the Necrodancer, Recettear, and all the other games with females leads. But yeah sure, this is groundbreaking....
You didn't pay attention to half of his sentence.
Generally when there is a male and a female, ie two playable main characters, the female is secondary. Especially as the main face of the game.
We even have an example of this this year at this E3, with Assassins Creed Syndicate. Where there are two playable characters, a brother and sister, and the main trailer they showed was entirely focused on the brother. They then showed another trailer featuring the sister, narrated by the brother. They couldn't even have her handle her own introduction. What a bunch of garbage.
But yeah, hey, Dishonored 2. That game is one I will play.
I know I'm in a minority, but I never minded Corvo not talking, because I was happy to fill that particular blank however I wanted. Does he kill reluctantly? Is he a gleeful avenger? Is he a broken man? Any and all of these can apply. Also, after Transistor I absolutely could imagine a silent Corvo with an object like the Heart that doesn't just comment on the world they inhabit but on Corvo's actions as well.
I did like Daud having a voice and a concrete personality, though. Both approaches have their merits IMO, both can walk, though in different ways.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited June 2015
Neverminded silent protagonists personally. Don't see any particular benefit for one over the other. If silent, my imagination is more than enough. If talking, they better be damn good, or they get annoying really quickly.
If they're good though, no worries. I can dig it. A good voice protag = good silent protag as far as I'm concerned. It's all about the other characters and the story itself. They're infinitely more important.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I'm sure they're good, just had a backlog of crazy proportions. Is there a lot of lore in there I'll want to go see before the next one? Like more outsider crap?
I'm sure they're good, just had a backlog of crazy proportions. Is there a lot of lore in there I'll want to go see before the next one? Like more outsider crap?
There's not tons that's likely to mater going forward, but it's a good story, and well worth playing through unless you're sick of the gameplay.
Some nice extra background lore, though (one mission has you going through a whale-processing facility, so the whale-oil lore gets a lot of extra detail there).
General plot summary:
You start after Daud's killed the Empress, but before (or at the same time as) Corvo escapes prison.
Daud the assassin feels guilty about killing the Empress, and the Outsider appears and gives him a clue for how he might find some kind of redemption.
Following the clue puts him on the trail of a group of witches with the Outsiders power, whose leader is preparing a ritual to possess Lady Emily, essentially taking over Dunwall by stealing the ruler.
Daud stops her (either by killing her, or screwing up the ritual so she gets sucked into the Void instead). The story ends with Corvo approaching Daud in the bit from the main campaign.
tl,dr; Daud actually does a better job as Lord Protector of the Empress than Corvo did, and no-one ever knows.
Playing as Cor or Em with separate powers has me well up front on the hype train. I don't want to get my hopes up but if they say they have separate stories I'm going to lose it.
That would be the ideal - I'd have one stealthy playthrough and a second violent playthrough with the other character.
It's all about the other characters and the story itself. They're infinitely more important.
It depends on how it's done. To my mind, the original Thief games worked very well because Garrett is a fun character that, while not immensely deep, is well written and performed brilliantly. I also think that Thief as a frame of reference was a bit of a problem for Dishonored, because the games are similar in lots of ways but with Garrett you inhabit a character, whereas Corvo is just a skin for you. Since the game felt like Thief, people were primed to expect or want the former but they got the latter.
The more a character serves as a blank slate for the player, the more I find voice acting can get in the way. Either it imposes a personality, which clashes with the whole blank slate bit, or it's anodyne and makes the character feel badly written and acted rather than a blank onto which you can project whatever you wish. (That's one of the things the Mass Effect games got extremely right with Jennifer Hale - her Commander Shepard has personality due to the performance, yet I never felt shoehorned into a specific character.)
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I don't have an issue for mute characters if they're intended as player avatars; Fallout, TES, etc, are good examples.
The problem with Dishonored is that you're not a blank slate. Corvo has a history and relationships to people and places in the game world. He might not speak, but he's still defined as a character in his own right. I loved Dishonored 1, but one of its few flaws was trying to have things both ways with him, avatar and character, and that's why I'm looking forward to hearing him speak in Dishonored 2.
Maybe Blink can go through keyholes, now. To prevent it from being too powerful, make bathrooms the main setting. Also an opportunity to have Corvo distract guards by singing in the shower.
I think they went with silent because his personality would influence how you'd approach the missions; if he was spitting hatred towards the people who put him there, it'd encourage you to go for the lethal options. If he was talking about saving the city and getting justice, it makes it harder to narratively justify that killing spree you just went on.
(If I'd been writing the first game, I'd have had him actually lose his speech while in prison. In story, it'd have been easy to justify them cutting his tongue out to keep him from spreading his 'lies' about being set up, and it'd barely affect the outcome of the story that we got.)
They could try and make it the reverse; start with a fairly neutral tone, then as you take a fully non-lethal/mostly non-lethal/mostly lethal/my god why at you still stabbing that man approach, Emily's responses could change accordingly. And if you suddenly switched from one approach to the other, she (and others) could comment on the change in priorities.
It'd be tricky to pull off, but I'd love it if they tried.
The problem with Dishonored is that you're not a blank slate. Corvo has a history and relationships to people and places in the game world. He might not speak, but he's still defined as a character in his own right.
Is he, though? Others are defined by their relationship to Corvo - especially the Empress and Emily - yet I never felt that the same was true in reverse. Corvo very much felt like a blank to me, doubly so after the Empress' death and his incarceration. It may be a bit of a circular argument: perhaps I felt he was a blank because he didn't speak, and he didn't need to speak because I felt he was a blank slate for the audience.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
We know a few things about Corvo, but we're never given any information about his personality. We're told he's a great fighter, and loyal to the Empress (which justifies his skills, and that he'll go along with the plot to save/restore/save Emily), but there's nothing in the stated characterisation to imply how he'd react to a given situation, or what he'd do in response to it.
If he were betrayed, would he kill the person betraying him? Leave them to a fate worse than death? Ensure they were subdued and bought before whatever local justice exists?
There is a distinct lack of whale oil in the trailer and an abundance of windmills.
If they are actually using wind of all things to provide their base load power , then they're probably carved out of whale bones and infused with whale magic to get around the horrible efficiency problems.
Can I just say how much robots make sense as an enemy?
I really, really hope they pass on the dumb "how many people you kill effects the ending" (it should of been choices, like how you dealt with the main targets). Either way, it gives people doing no violent playthroughs something to fight and smash without feeling bad.
Nah, I'm fine with how they did the good/bad stuff in the first game. You had a pretty good leeway for how many people you could kill. And if you don't get satisfaction from ghosting through an area or choking fools out, then you probably shouldn't be attempting a non-lethal playthrough.
That said, if they do manage to add some more stuff for non-lethal methods, I certainly wouldn't complain. The first game was still great though.
The main problem I had with the system in the first one is you got a ton of lethal options.........then a crossbow with very limited, rare, and expensive ammo.
Not even a gas grenade? I mean c'mon.
Edit: Hell Batman has tons of non-lethal gadgets. Give us a utility belt!
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I played through the main game a good 3 or so times, I had a playthrough where I killed just the targets and noone else, then I did the completely nonlethal, then a did the sneaky but completely lethal where I murdered everything. I went through Knife of Dunwall both nonlethal and highly lethal, and Brigmore Witches I've done the nonlethal, but I haven't yet gone back to do a highly lethal just yet.
About the only thing I haven't done yet is tried to play it like a straight up FPS action game, though I've seen some videos of people who have done some very impressive things with the combat. I did run into a slight issue where I was playing on the new hardest difficulty in Knife of Dunwall while doing the high chaos run... I was not prepared for a forced boss fight at the end of that. It took many many tries considering I died in like 2 hits... I think I ended up restarting the final level and upgrading my armor so I didn't die quite so fast. Eventually did complete it, but damn.
He would slide past guys on the ground and attach mines to them as he passed.
Or slide under a table and stick a mine under it, then they'd run past it.
It was ridiculous.
edit: found it!
You could use the super jump to leap up and land on a guy without stabbing him. It would knock him down without killing him. You could also blink to do this.
The super sprint and super jump were also really useful for getting across heavily guarded areas and leaping up into places quickly during a time stop. You could combine super jump and blink.
You could even blink behind a guy who had "spotted" you but wasn't alert yet, then choke him.
It wasn't just sneaking up and choking and sleeping darts.
There was just more combat stuff.
There was a lot of clever pacifist stuff you could do with power combinations.
I just didn't learn most of it until near the end of the game.
I bet you could get through the entire game post acquiring human possession without choking anyone or sleeping anyone. Just continuously using blink and possession and nothing else. As long as you don't make a noise behind them or hang around guards who have been possessed are too busy vomiting their guts out to hear you sneak off.
They just go "what the flying fuck just happened?" and groggily wander back to their post.
Add time stop to that and I bet you could go through the whole game without killing, knocking out or sleeping anyone at all.
Except for Tomb Raider, Metroid, Portal, Mirror's Edge, Remember Me, Crypt of the Necrodancer, Recettear, and all the other games with females leads. But yeah sure, this is groundbreaking....
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
You didn't pay attention to half of his sentence.
Generally when there is a male and a female, ie two playable main characters, the female is secondary. Especially as the main face of the game.
As far as i know every game you just listed has a single female playable main character. Hence irrelevant. I haven't played the last three though.
Yep, that's the exact type of video I was talking about. There is some crazy shit you can pull off in the game for sure. I love Arkane's combat... I hope Bethesda gets them in to help them with TES6's combat or something, because god damn.
That and walking through those death gates unharmed.
Craziness.
Did you actually read what he wrote?
What male character is also in any of those games as a main playable lead?
Edit: Also a handful of examples of series (largely) with a female lead doesn't change the fact it's actually fairly rare to have a female as the main protagonist of a game. Dishonored having one is still exciting for many, especially given how often women are overlooked for "Multiple males all together!" (Cough Unity and Far Cry 4).
Whenever there Is a choice of gender, the men are always front and center. In advertising, boxart, and demonstrations the dude is almost always used. See Mass Effect, Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Dragon Age, and many others.
I always liked the one at 1 minute (potential Dishonored spoilers elsewhere in video if someone hasn't played it):
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
We even have an example of this this year at this E3, with Assassins Creed Syndicate. Where there are two playable characters, a brother and sister, and the main trailer they showed was entirely focused on the brother. They then showed another trailer featuring the sister, narrated by the brother. They couldn't even have her handle her own introduction. What a bunch of garbage.
But yeah, hey, Dishonored 2. That game is one I will play.
Too fancy.
And too open ended. Perhaps Corso will just start humming when he kills all the mans.
I got the good ending, this could be a hiccup on the way to happily ever after.
But hearing the big bad rant about you, as you sneak by, I felt like Batman.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
I did like Daud having a voice and a concrete personality, though. Both approaches have their merits IMO, both can walk, though in different ways.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
If they're good though, no worries. I can dig it. A good voice protag = good silent protag as far as I'm concerned. It's all about the other characters and the story itself. They're infinitely more important.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dishonored-The-Definitive-Edition-PS4/dp/B00ZF31O5M/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1434528787&sr=8-5&keywords=Dishonored+PS4
I'm sure they're good, just had a backlog of crazy proportions. Is there a lot of lore in there I'll want to go see before the next one? Like more outsider crap?
There's not tons that's likely to mater going forward, but it's a good story, and well worth playing through unless you're sick of the gameplay.
Some nice extra background lore, though (one mission has you going through a whale-processing facility, so the whale-oil lore gets a lot of extra detail there).
General plot summary:
Daud the assassin feels guilty about killing the Empress, and the Outsider appears and gives him a clue for how he might find some kind of redemption.
Following the clue puts him on the trail of a group of witches with the Outsiders power, whose leader is preparing a ritual to possess Lady Emily, essentially taking over Dunwall by stealing the ruler.
Daud stops her (either by killing her, or screwing up the ritual so she gets sucked into the Void instead). The story ends with Corvo approaching Daud in the bit from the main campaign.
tl,dr; Daud actually does a better job as Lord Protector of the Empress than Corvo did, and no-one ever knows.
Seeing the big boss man's work affect other industries lets you know what type of town Dunwall had become under his rule.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
That would be the ideal - I'd have one stealthy playthrough and a second violent playthrough with the other character.
Interesting! Wonder what it'll bring to the table and wether we can get it on PC as well.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
The more a character serves as a blank slate for the player, the more I find voice acting can get in the way. Either it imposes a personality, which clashes with the whole blank slate bit, or it's anodyne and makes the character feel badly written and acted rather than a blank onto which you can project whatever you wish. (That's one of the things the Mass Effect games got extremely right with Jennifer Hale - her Commander Shepard has personality due to the performance, yet I never felt shoehorned into a specific character.)
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
The problem with Dishonored is that you're not a blank slate. Corvo has a history and relationships to people and places in the game world. He might not speak, but he's still defined as a character in his own right. I loved Dishonored 1, but one of its few flaws was trying to have things both ways with him, avatar and character, and that's why I'm looking forward to hearing him speak in Dishonored 2.
Old PA forum lookalike style for the new forums | My ko-fi donation thing.
(If I'd been writing the first game, I'd have had him actually lose his speech while in prison. In story, it'd have been easy to justify them cutting his tongue out to keep him from spreading his 'lies' about being set up, and it'd barely affect the outcome of the story that we got.)
They could try and make it the reverse; start with a fairly neutral tone, then as you take a fully non-lethal/mostly non-lethal/mostly lethal/my god why at you still stabbing that man approach, Emily's responses could change accordingly. And if you suddenly switched from one approach to the other, she (and others) could comment on the change in priorities.
It'd be tricky to pull off, but I'd love it if they tried.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
If he were betrayed, would he kill the person betraying him? Leave them to a fate worse than death? Ensure they were subdued and bought before whatever local justice exists?
If they are actually using wind of all things to provide their base load power , then they're probably carved out of whale bones and infused with whale magic to get around the horrible efficiency problems.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
Ok?
I really, really hope they pass on the dumb "how many people you kill effects the ending" (it should of been choices, like how you dealt with the main targets). Either way, it gives people doing no violent playthroughs something to fight and smash without feeling bad.
Oh, and can we get so dialogue options? Pleaee?
That said, if they do manage to add some more stuff for non-lethal methods, I certainly wouldn't complain. The first game was still great though.
Not even a gas grenade? I mean c'mon.
Edit: Hell Batman has tons of non-lethal gadgets. Give us a utility belt!
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird