I like the stuff I've been hearing about Jaime in the books more than the show.
I don't read the books, but my friends have told me about it, and the idea of
Jaime becoming a commander mopping up Stark remnants and the Brotherhood of banners while learning how to be a solid leader and realizing his skill with a sword isn't everything sounds way, way better than Jaime and Bronn's Bogus Journey in the show.
On Jon
Also, wasn't the reason that the Watch stabbed Jon in the books was that he went a little crazy with power and wanted to send brothers to fight the Boltons?
Jon/book spoilers
Basically, Jon receives a letter purported to be from Ramsay that's commonly referred to as "the pink letter". It's extremely inflammatory and very rude. It alleges that Ramsay demolished Stannis' army. It alleges that Jon Snow has stolen Ramsay's bride. It alleges that he's stolen Reek, too (they both jumped from the castle in the same way they did in the show, except it's not Sansa with Reek). The letter writer demands that he return them, as well as Selyse and Shrieen (who are not dead) and a couple other people under the Watch's protection. Ramsay threatens to march his forces to the wall and eat Jon's bastard heart if he doesn't turn them over.
Based on the possibility that letter is accurate, Jon musters the watch for a volunteer mission to Winterfell. After that, something plays out basically the same as how he was stabbed in the show.
I like the stuff I've been hearing about Jaime in the books more than the show.
I don't read the books, but my friends have told me about it, and the idea of
Jaime becoming a commander mopping up Stark remnants and the Brotherhood of banners while learning how to be a solid leader and realizing his skill with a sword isn't everything sounds way, way better than Jaime and Bronn's Bogus Journey in the show.
On Jon
Also, wasn't the reason that the Watch stabbed Jon in the books was that he went a little crazy with power and wanted to send brothers to fight the Boltons?
Yup.
Show/Book divergence spoilers:
Jamie basically has to grow up. He's never really been in command before, he always just executed what his father told him to do. When it came down to actually make decisions instead of standing idly by he found out he was fairly good at it and the readers saw he has a sense of fairness and justice.
The Dorne plot from the book is completely different and much less stupid on the face of it and doesn't involve Jamie at all.
Jon decided to lead the Wildling army south so completely forsook his vows to the Watch. So yeah, wildly different than him having let some Wildlings through last week.
These actually sound like much better reasons than the show had for that event. Really wish they could have used them.
Also, is Jon's hair white in the books? Someone told me that and with his name "Snow" that sounds like dumb anime bullshit that I'm glad they changed for the show.
I'm not getting into the Rhaegar and Lyanna thing though
Snow is just the bastard name for the North (Ramsay was Ramsay Snow before he was made Ramsay Bolton last season).
All the kingdoms have one
North: Snow
Vale: Stone
Riverlands: Rivers
Stormlands: Storm
Dorne: Sand
I'm forgetting what the others are at the moment, but it'sn ot his appearance.
Westerlands: Hill
Reach: Flowers
Crownlands (also probably Dragonstone): Waters
Iron Islands: Pyke
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
I like the stuff I've been hearing about Jaime in the books more than the show.
I don't read the books, but my friends have told me about it, and the idea of
Jaime becoming a commander mopping up Stark remnants and the Brotherhood of banners while learning how to be a solid leader and realizing his skill with a sword isn't everything sounds way, way better than Jaime and Bronn's Bogus Journey in the show.
On Jon
Also, wasn't the reason that the Watch stabbed Jon in the books was that he went a little crazy with power and wanted to send brothers to fight the Boltons?
Jon/book spoilers
Basically, Jon receives a letter purported to be from Ramsay that's commonly referred to as "the pink letter". It's extremely inflammatory and very rude. It alleges that Ramsay demolished Stannis' army. It alleges that Jon Snow has stolen Ramsay's bride. It alleges that he's stolen Reek, too (they both jumped from the castle in the same way they did in the show, except it's not Sansa with Reek). The letter writer demands that he return them, as well as Selyse and Shrieen (who are not dead) and a couple other people under the Watch's protection. Ramsay threatens to march his forces to the wall and eat Jon's bastard heart if he doesn't turn them over.
Based on the possibility that letter is accurate, Jon musters the watch for a volunteer mission to Winterfell. After that, something plays out basically the same as how he was stabbed in the show.
I like the stuff I've been hearing about Jaime in the books more than the show.
I don't read the books, but my friends have told me about it, and the idea of
Jaime becoming a commander mopping up Stark remnants and the Brotherhood of banners while learning how to be a solid leader and realizing his skill with a sword isn't everything sounds way, way better than Jaime and Bronn's Bogus Journey in the show.
On Jon
Also, wasn't the reason that the Watch stabbed Jon in the books was that he went a little crazy with power and wanted to send brothers to fight the Boltons?
Yup.
Show/Book divergence spoilers:
Jamie basically has to grow up. He's never really been in command before, he always just executed what his father told him to do. When it came down to actually make decisions instead of standing idly by he found out he was fairly good at it and the readers saw he has a sense of fairness and justice.
The Dorne plot from the book is completely different and much less stupid on the face of it and doesn't involve Jamie at all.
Jon decided to lead the Wildling army south so completely forsook his vows to the Watch. So yeah, wildly different than him having let some Wildlings through last week.
These actually sound like much better reasons than the show had for that event. Really wish they could have used them.
Also, is Jon's hair white in the books? Someone told me that and with his name "Snow" that sounds like dumb anime bullshit that I'm glad they changed for the show.
I'm not getting into the Rhaegar and Lyanna thing though
Snow is just the bastard name for the North (Ramsay was Ramsay Snow before he was made Ramsay Bolton last season).
All the kingdoms have one
North: Snow
Vale: Stone
Riverlands: Rivers
Stormlands: Storm
Dorne: Sand
I'm forgetting what the others are at the moment, but it'sn ot his appearance.
I know the bastard names and conventions.
I am just saying that if GRRM had done that, which has not apparently, and it wasn't just a coincidence, it would look like dumb anime bullshit.
Honestly I think we should have a spoiler free-for-all now. There are only a few pitiful spoilers left in the books that haven't been in the show, no big shockers. People who want to remain pure and unsullied for the books are going to have to avoid all GoT discussion from now on, and frankly, I don't think the books are going to go the same way as the show.
Honestly I think we should have a spoiler free-for-all now. There are only a few pitiful spoilers left in the books that haven't been in the show, no big shockers. People who want to remain pure and unsullied for the books are going to have to avoid all GoT discussion from now on, and frankly, I don't think the books are going to go the same way as the show.
I disagree. There are many things not in the show so far that are sort of major things that might show up later.
I like the stuff I've been hearing about Jaime in the books more than the show.
I don't read the books, but my friends have told me about it, and the idea of
Jaime becoming a commander mopping up Stark remnants and the Brotherhood of banners while learning how to be a solid leader and realizing his skill with a sword isn't everything sounds way, way better than Jaime and Bronn's Bogus Journey in the show.
On Jon
Also, wasn't the reason that the Watch stabbed Jon in the books was that he went a little crazy with power and wanted to send brothers to fight the Boltons?
Jon/book spoilers
Basically, Jon receives a letter purported to be from Ramsay that's commonly referred to as "the pink letter". It's extremely inflammatory and very rude. It alleges that Ramsay demolished Stannis' army. It alleges that Jon Snow has stolen Ramsay's bride. It alleges that he's stolen Reek, too (they both jumped from the castle in the same way they did in the show, except it's not Sansa with Reek). The letter writer demands that he return them, as well as Selyse and Shrieen (who are not dead) and a couple other people under the Watch's protection. Ramsay threatens to march his forces to the wall and eat Jon's bastard heart if he doesn't turn them over.
Based on the possibility that letter is accurate, Jon musters the watch for a volunteer mission to Winterfell. After that, something plays out basically the same as how he was stabbed in the show.
I like the stuff I've been hearing about Jaime in the books more than the show.
I don't read the books, but my friends have told me about it, and the idea of
Jaime becoming a commander mopping up Stark remnants and the Brotherhood of banners while learning how to be a solid leader and realizing his skill with a sword isn't everything sounds way, way better than Jaime and Bronn's Bogus Journey in the show.
On Jon
Also, wasn't the reason that the Watch stabbed Jon in the books was that he went a little crazy with power and wanted to send brothers to fight the Boltons?
Yup.
Show/Book divergence spoilers:
Jamie basically has to grow up. He's never really been in command before, he always just executed what his father told him to do. When it came down to actually make decisions instead of standing idly by he found out he was fairly good at it and the readers saw he has a sense of fairness and justice.
The Dorne plot from the book is completely different and much less stupid on the face of it and doesn't involve Jamie at all.
Jon decided to lead the Wildling army south so completely forsook his vows to the Watch. So yeah, wildly different than him having let some Wildlings through last week.
These actually sound like much better reasons than the show had for that event. Really wish they could have used them.
Also, is Jon's hair white in the books? Someone told me that and with his name "Snow" that sounds like dumb anime bullshit that I'm glad they changed for the show.
I'm not getting into the Rhaegar and Lyanna thing though
Snow is just the bastard name for the North (Ramsay was Ramsay Snow before he was made Ramsay Bolton last season).
All the kingdoms have one
North: Snow
Vale: Stone
Riverlands: Rivers
Stormlands: Storm
Dorne: Sand
I'm forgetting what the others are at the moment, but it'sn ot his appearance.
I know the bastard names and conventions.
I am just saying that if GRRM had done that, which has not apparently, and it wasn't just a coincidence, it would look like dumb anime bullshit.
Which reminds me, the Japanese covers for the game of thrones books are pretty interesting, its fun to see different artists take on the same character.
For example we have very anime Jon Snow:
And not anime at all Jon Snow:
Also there will always be something magical to me about the Japanese dub of the show:
Honestly I think we should have a spoiler free-for-all now. There are only a few pitiful spoilers left in the books that haven't been in the show, no big shockers. People who want to remain pure and unsullied for the books are going to have to avoid all GoT discussion from now on, and frankly, I don't think the books are going to go the same way as the show.
I disagree. There are many things not in the show so far that are sort of major things that might show up later.
You'd have to have some modicum of faith in D&D for that to happen. Not to mention it would somehow have to be written from scratch why they happen on a different timeline/pacing than originally in the books.
Honestly I think we should have a spoiler free-for-all now. There are only a few pitiful spoilers left in the books that haven't been in the show, no big shockers. People who want to remain pure and unsullied for the books are going to have to avoid all GoT discussion from now on, and frankly, I don't think the books are going to go the same way as the show.
I disagree. There are many things not in the show so far that are sort of major things that might show up later.
You'd have to have some modicum of faith in D&D for that to happen. Not to mention it would somehow have to be written from scratch why they happen on a different timeline/pacing than originally in the books.
Honestly I think we should have a spoiler free-for-all now. There are only a few pitiful spoilers left in the books that haven't been in the show, no big shockers. People who want to remain pure and unsullied for the books are going to have to avoid all GoT discussion from now on, and frankly, I don't think the books are going to go the same way as the show.
I disagree. There are many things not in the show so far that are sort of major things that might show up later.
Along with that, I feel spoiler tagging stuff helps compartmentalize the show/books as different things. It's not necessarily about shocking events, either. Parts of the story that haven't happened (or been rewritten to clearly no longer be necessary) might still be depicted on the show, and I think it'd be respectful to let people choose whether or not to see discussion related to those events.
Oh man. The one thing I noticed after comparing the two threads.
Is that there is a massive difference in opinion about the quality of the show between book readers and television viewers.
This will be interesting.
Could you expound on that? I have read the TV thread but not the book thread at all.
There is a very vocal group that is not terribly pleased with the alterations the show has made this season. Practically none of them were positive compared to the book storylines.
It's easier to say something is stupid when you have a better way laid out for you right over there.
Oh man. The one thing I noticed after comparing the two threads.
Is that there is a massive difference in opinion about the quality of the show between book readers and television viewers.
This will be interesting.
Could you expound on that? I have read the TV thread but not the book thread at all.
There is a very vocal group that is not terribly pleased with the alterations the show has made this season. Practically none of them were positive compared to the book storylines.
It's easier to say something is stupid when you have a better way laid out for you right over there.
That actually seems to be in line with the TV thread opinion which seems to be that Season 5 is not as good as previous seasons in many ways.
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
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FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
I think Book stannis was way better then Show stannis.
Was book Stannis also a grammar nazi? Because that's his most appealing trait on the show
He is. He's also got a lot of great deadpan snark in the books, which never really seemed to make it into the show for some reason. In general he's a much greyer character in the books; he still does horrible things, but his sympathetic attributes are much more pronounced.
Oh man. The one thing I noticed after comparing the two threads.
Is that there is a massive difference in opinion about the quality of the show between book readers and television viewers.
This will be interesting.
Could you expound on that? I have read the TV thread but not the book thread at all.
There is a very vocal group that is not terribly pleased with the alterations the show has made this season. Practically none of them were positive compared to the book storylines.
It's easier to say something is stupid when you have a better way laid out for you right over there.
I've heard there were some positive changes in the shows from the books.
But yes, they're different mediums and books are often superior because your imagination allows things to be as epic, scary, beautiful, bleak, or happy as you'd like given the words.
I'd almost hope to see a minimum of book snobbery here. I'm guilty of it as much as anyone else, but if we're going to go the route of Printed Word Master Race it'll probably end up detracting from the thread as a whole.
Would it be at all possible to declare, right now, that Books Are Almost Always Better as a universally known fact for everyone here so we don't have to slog through pages of it?
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Oh man. The one thing I noticed after comparing the two threads.
Is that there is a massive difference in opinion about the quality of the show between book readers and television viewers.
This will be interesting.
Could you expound on that? I have read the TV thread but not the book thread at all.
There is a very vocal group that is not terribly pleased with the alterations the show has made this season. Practically none of them were positive compared to the book storylines.
It's easier to say something is stupid when you have a better way laid out for you right over there.
That actually seems to be in line with the TV thread opinion which seems to be that Season 5 is not as good as previous seasons in many ways.
Season 5 was a dense rush of set-ups and piece moving. We saw so many new things in Season 5 but weren't allowed to just absorb them because they were gone in a heartbeat. Also, the entirety of the Dorne thing was just... fucking dumb.
It was important, story-wise, but weak when it comes to the actual show.
I quit reading the books because the TV show gave me all the pertinent bits without the boring slog... Also the show actually moves between multiple characters/sites in a single episode. The books sticking to a character/site for a massively long chapter that I don't like was one the reasons I haven't gotten back to rereading the books and catching up on them.
And this is coming from someone who generally likes his fantasy novels the longer the better.
I think Book stannis was way better then Show stannis.
Was book Stannis also a grammar nazi? Because that's his most appealing trait on the show
He is. He's also got a lot of great deadpan snark in the books, which never really seemed to make it into the show for some reason. In general he's a much greyer character in the books; he still does horrible things, but his sympathetic attributes are much more pronounced.
Another good example of the difference between show Stannis and book Stannis is this quote from the books from when he was stuck in the snow outside Winterfell:
"Half my army is made up of unbelievers. I will have no burnings. Pray harder."
Considering how it unfolds in the show, his reasons for not doing such in the book are pretty accurate. Smart guy that book!Stannis...
edit: I also feel the need to mention how the show strips out so much of the nuance and hope the books have. Combine this with the showrunner's over reliance on coincidence and you are left with the show feeling both random and bleak. It's a real shame.
Oh man. The one thing I noticed after comparing the two threads.
Is that there is a massive difference in opinion about the quality of the show between book readers and television viewers.
This will be interesting.
Could you expound on that? I have read the TV thread but not the book thread at all.
There is a very vocal group that is not terribly pleased with the alterations the show has made this season. Practically none of them were positive compared to the book storylines.
It's easier to say something is stupid when you have a better way laid out for you right over there.
I've heard there were some positive changes in the shows from the books.
But yes, they're different mediums and books are often superior because your imagination allows things to be as epic, scary, beautiful, bleak, or happy as you'd like given the words.
I'd almost hope to see a minimum of book snobbery here. I'm guilty of it as much as anyone else, but if we're going to go the route of Printed Word Master Race it'll probably end up detracting from the thread as a whole.
Would it be at all possible to declare, right now, that Books Are Almost Always Better as a universally known fact for everyone here so we don't have to slog through pages of it?
Eh. The changes made in the early seasons were actually quite good. The Cersei/Robert conversation about their marriage? Nowhere in the books and it was excellent. This season has definitely felt different in regards to quality of the adaption.
Most of the group recognize that some things are just unfilmable. That they want to avoid just shelving an actor/character for a season while they introduce a dozen new names nobody has heard about. The argument we're putting forward isn't that straying from the holy written word is a problem, it's that doing it poorly is a problem and the show has been doing it more and more poorly as the seasons have gone on.
Like, there was genuine hope for the Jamie/Bronn Dorne Bro-ad trip. It could have gone great places. It did not. I'd love to hear what a show only person thinks the plot of that was.
I feel like the TV thread and books thread both had pretty similar opinions about the last couple seasons' overall quality, with maybe a bit more bitterness about it from the book thread. The adaptations/alterations that didn't work just as obviously didn't work if you hadn't read the books first. You could tell things like Yara Greyjoy's failed rescue of Reek or the Jaime/Bronn/Sand Snakes confrontation were shoddily conceived and executed just from looking at the high quality of all the parts of the show that did work in comparison.
Honestly I think we should have a spoiler free-for-all now. There are only a few pitiful spoilers left in the books that haven't been in the show, no big shockers. People who want to remain pure and unsullied for the books are going to have to avoid all GoT discussion from now on, and frankly, I don't think the books are going to go the same way as the show.
Nah, that's a terrible idea.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Oh man. The one thing I noticed after comparing the two threads.
Is that there is a massive difference in opinion about the quality of the show between book readers and television viewers.
This will be interesting.
Could you expound on that? I have read the TV thread but not the book thread at all.
There is a very vocal group that is not terribly pleased with the alterations the show has made this season. Practically none of them were positive compared to the book storylines.
It's easier to say something is stupid when you have a better way laid out for you right over there.
I've heard there were some positive changes in the shows from the books.
But yes, they're different mediums and books are often superior because your imagination allows things to be as epic, scary, beautiful, bleak, or happy as you'd like given the words.
I'd almost hope to see a minimum of book snobbery here. I'm guilty of it as much as anyone else, but if we're going to go the route of Printed Word Master Race it'll probably end up detracting from the thread as a whole.
Would it be at all possible to declare, right now, that Books Are Almost Always Better as a universally known fact for everyone here so we don't have to slog through pages of it?
Eh. The changes made in the early seasons were actually quite good. The Cersei/Robert conversation about their marriage? Nowhere in the books and it was excellent. This season has definitely felt different in regards to quality of the adaption.
Most of the group recognize that some things are just unfilmable. That they want to avoid just shelving an actor/character for a season while they introduce a dozen new names nobody has heard about. The argument we're putting forward isn't that straying from the holy written word is a problem, it's that doing it poorly is a problem and the show has been doing it more and more poorly as the seasons have gone on.
Like, there was genuine hope for the Jamie/Bronn Dorne Bro-ad trip. It could have gone great places. It did not. I'd love to hear what a show only person thinks the plot of that was.
As a show-only person, I found all the seasons continually stronger up until 5. I've never read the books but I felt the weight of the series just increase until this latest season.
The point of the Dorne trip? There was no point. It was a poorly executed thing. It wouldn't have been so bad if OH THE DISASTER had never been written in there, but there it is. I felt like they could've gotten rid of the entire plotline and just replaced it with Tyrion and Dany waxing political and I would've been as happy as a pig in shit.
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FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
Oh man. The one thing I noticed after comparing the two threads.
Is that there is a massive difference in opinion about the quality of the show between book readers and television viewers.
This will be interesting.
Could you expound on that? I have read the TV thread but not the book thread at all.
There is a very vocal group that is not terribly pleased with the alterations the show has made this season. Practically none of them were positive compared to the book storylines.
It's easier to say something is stupid when you have a better way laid out for you right over there.
I've heard there were some positive changes in the shows from the books.
But yes, they're different mediums and books are often superior because your imagination allows things to be as epic, scary, beautiful, bleak, or happy as you'd like given the words.
I'd almost hope to see a minimum of book snobbery here. I'm guilty of it as much as anyone else, but if we're going to go the route of Printed Word Master Race it'll probably end up detracting from the thread as a whole.
Would it be at all possible to declare, right now, that Books Are Almost Always Better as a universally known fact for everyone here so we don't have to slog through pages of it?
It's a little more complex than that. Yes, books generally are better because they have more room to develop ideas and let you exercise your imagination. But the show has made changes to characters and plot that are deeply puzzling to many people who have read the books, as they seem like poor choices and the need for them is not obvious. It's quite possible there was a need for them. We often don't know the exact limitations of casting, budget and time that the show has. We are not privy to the discussions in their writers room, where they try to hash out how to adapt these very complicated books plots, nor are we privy to the conversations they have with GRRM about what he has planned for the future.
And the show does sometimes improve on things. There are a number of scenes in the show, especially in the first season, that aren't present in the books, and are very, very good. This scene, between Cersei and King Robert, is fantastic, as it gives insight into the relationship between the two character that we don't really get to see in the novels:
It's not simple snobbery because of the different mediums. It's confusion over a lack of understanding of why certain changes where made (or a very cynical interpretation of why they may have been made) that leads to disappointment and anger. That said, this absolutely should not overwhelm the thread, and I think extended digressions where people argue about this should perhaps be confined to spoilers.
Oh man. The one thing I noticed after comparing the two threads.
Is that there is a massive difference in opinion about the quality of the show between book readers and television viewers.
This will be interesting.
Could you expound on that? I have read the TV thread but not the book thread at all.
There is a very vocal group that is not terribly pleased with the alterations the show has made this season. Practically none of them were positive compared to the book storylines.
It's easier to say something is stupid when you have a better way laid out for you right over there.
I've heard there were some positive changes in the shows from the books.
But yes, they're different mediums and books are often superior because your imagination allows things to be as epic, scary, beautiful, bleak, or happy as you'd like given the words.
I'd almost hope to see a minimum of book snobbery here. I'm guilty of it as much as anyone else, but if we're going to go the route of Printed Word Master Race it'll probably end up detracting from the thread as a whole.
Would it be at all possible to declare, right now, that Books Are Almost Always Better as a universally known fact for everyone here so we don't have to slog through pages of it?
Eh. The changes made in the early seasons were actually quite good. The Cersei/Robert conversation about their marriage? Nowhere in the books and it was excellent. This season has definitely felt different in regards to quality of the adaption.
Most of the group recognize that some things are just unfilmable. That they want to avoid just shelving an actor/character for a season while they introduce a dozen new names nobody has heard about. The argument we're putting forward isn't that straying from the holy written word is a problem, it's that doing it poorly is a problem and the show has been doing it more and more poorly as the seasons have gone on.
Like, there was genuine hope for the Jamie/Bronn Dorne Bro-ad trip. It could have gone great places. It did not. I'd love to hear what a show only person thinks the plot of that was.
As a show-only person, I found all the seasons continually stronger up until 5. I've never read the books but I felt the weight of the series just increase until this latest season.
The point of the Dorne trip? There was no point. It was a poorly executed thing. It wouldn't have been so bad if OH THE DISASTER had never been written in there, but there it is. I felt like they could've gotten rid of the entire plotline and just replaced it with Tyrion and Dany waxing political and I would've been as happy as a pig in shit.
I'm so happy most show watchers picked up on this. That whole plotline was made up and was so terrible and unnecessary. Top to bottom just a mess.
Oh man. The one thing I noticed after comparing the two threads.
Is that there is a massive difference in opinion about the quality of the show between book readers and television viewers.
This will be interesting.
Could you expound on that? I have read the TV thread but not the book thread at all.
There is a very vocal group that is not terribly pleased with the alterations the show has made this season. Practically none of them were positive compared to the book storylines.
It's easier to say something is stupid when you have a better way laid out for you right over there.
I've heard there were some positive changes in the shows from the books.
But yes, they're different mediums and books are often superior because your imagination allows things to be as epic, scary, beautiful, bleak, or happy as you'd like given the words.
I'd almost hope to see a minimum of book snobbery here. I'm guilty of it as much as anyone else, but if we're going to go the route of Printed Word Master Race it'll probably end up detracting from the thread as a whole.
Would it be at all possible to declare, right now, that Books Are Almost Always Better as a universally known fact for everyone here so we don't have to slog through pages of it?
Eh. The changes made in the early seasons were actually quite good. The Cersei/Robert conversation about their marriage? Nowhere in the books and it was excellent. This season has definitely felt different in regards to quality of the adaption.
Most of the group recognize that some things are just unfilmable. That they want to avoid just shelving an actor/character for a season while they introduce a dozen new names nobody has heard about. The argument we're putting forward isn't that straying from the holy written word is a problem, it's that doing it poorly is a problem and the show has been doing it more and more poorly as the seasons have gone on.
Like, there was genuine hope for the Jamie/Bronn Dorne Bro-ad trip. It could have gone great places. It did not. I'd love to hear what a show only person thinks the plot of that was.
As a show-only person, I found all the seasons continually stronger up until 5. I've never read the books but I felt the weight of the series just increase until this latest season.
The point of the Dorne trip? There was no point. It was a poorly executed thing. It wouldn't have been so bad if OH THE DISASTER had never been written in there, but there it is. I felt like they could've gotten rid of the entire plotline and just replaced it with Tyrion and Dany waxing political and I would've been as happy as a pig in shit.
I'm so happy most show watchers picked up on this. That whole plotline was made up and was so terrible and unnecessary. Top to bottom just a mess.
I kind of wish they had done it off-screen. Or not done it at all.
Compare that to Arya's fumbling around, which I loved a lot. It shows she's still a little girl, despite her advanced maturity. Also, Maisie Williams is an incredible actress. Her scene with The Hound at the end of the last season, where she just stared, was a minor masterwork from this young lady. She's 18 in real-life, and it's crazy how well she pulls off being much younger.
Oh man. The one thing I noticed after comparing the two threads.
Is that there is a massive difference in opinion about the quality of the show between book readers and television viewers.
This will be interesting.
Could you expound on that? I have read the TV thread but not the book thread at all.
There is a very vocal group that is not terribly pleased with the alterations the show has made this season. Practically none of them were positive compared to the book storylines.
It's easier to say something is stupid when you have a better way laid out for you right over there.
I've heard there were some positive changes in the shows from the books.
But yes, they're different mediums and books are often superior because your imagination allows things to be as epic, scary, beautiful, bleak, or happy as you'd like given the words.
I'd almost hope to see a minimum of book snobbery here. I'm guilty of it as much as anyone else, but if we're going to go the route of Printed Word Master Race it'll probably end up detracting from the thread as a whole.
Would it be at all possible to declare, right now, that Books Are Almost Always Better as a universally known fact for everyone here so we don't have to slog through pages of it?
Eh. The changes made in the early seasons were actually quite good. The Cersei/Robert conversation about their marriage? Nowhere in the books and it was excellent. This season has definitely felt different in regards to quality of the adaption.
Most of the group recognize that some things are just unfilmable. That they want to avoid just shelving an actor/character for a season while they introduce a dozen new names nobody has heard about. The argument we're putting forward isn't that straying from the holy written word is a problem, it's that doing it poorly is a problem and the show has been doing it more and more poorly as the seasons have gone on.
Like, there was genuine hope for the Jamie/Bronn Dorne Bro-ad trip. It could have gone great places. It did not. I'd love to hear what a show only person thinks the plot of that was.
As a show-only person, I found all the seasons continually stronger up until 5. I've never read the books but I felt the weight of the series just increase until this latest season.
The point of the Dorne trip? There was no point. It was a poorly executed thing. It wouldn't have been so bad if OH THE DISASTER had never been written in there, but there it is. I felt like they could've gotten rid of the entire plotline and just replaced it with Tyrion and Dany waxing political and I would've been as happy as a pig in shit.
I'm so happy most show watchers picked up on this. That whole plotline was made up and was so terrible and unnecessary. Top to bottom just a mess.
I kind of wish they had done it off-screen. Or not done it at all.
Compare that to Arya's fumbling around, which I loved a lot. It shows she's still a little girl, despite her advanced maturity. Also, Maisie Williams is an incredible actress. Her scene with The Hound at the end of the last season, where she just stared, was a minor masterwork from this young lady. She's 18 in real-life, and it's crazy how well she pulls off being much younger.
The worst part is what was cut to have Jamie fumble around in Dorne. What we could have had instead would have been similar in tone to his journey with Brienne, something that causes actual character growth. (no details in case we still get that in future seasons)
Instead we get him bumbling around in the sand with one coincidence after another. Yay.
It feels like we were generally fine with stuff like Tywin instead of Roose at Harrenhal, Blackwater changed for obvious budgetary reasons, Barristan not hiding his identity from Dany, and Arya killing Trant in place of a Night's Watch deserter. It's those changes for changes sake that alter the essence of a character like Stannis that irked quite a few of us.
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
Aaand I've been dying to say this (for years) I don't understand why Sean Bean didn't wear a wig or dye his hair. Eddard was suppose to be dark haired, like Arya, Jon and Benjen.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Oh man. The one thing I noticed after comparing the two threads.
Is that there is a massive difference in opinion about the quality of the show between book readers and television viewers.
This will be interesting.
Could you expound on that? I have read the TV thread but not the book thread at all.
There is a very vocal group that is not terribly pleased with the alterations the show has made this season. Practically none of them were positive compared to the book storylines.
It's easier to say something is stupid when you have a better way laid out for you right over there.
I've heard there were some positive changes in the shows from the books.
But yes, they're different mediums and books are often superior because your imagination allows things to be as epic, scary, beautiful, bleak, or happy as you'd like given the words.
I'd almost hope to see a minimum of book snobbery here. I'm guilty of it as much as anyone else, but if we're going to go the route of Printed Word Master Race it'll probably end up detracting from the thread as a whole.
Would it be at all possible to declare, right now, that Books Are Almost Always Better as a universally known fact for everyone here so we don't have to slog through pages of it?
Eh. The changes made in the early seasons were actually quite good. The Cersei/Robert conversation about their marriage? Nowhere in the books and it was excellent. This season has definitely felt different in regards to quality of the adaption.
Most of the group recognize that some things are just unfilmable. That they want to avoid just shelving an actor/character for a season while they introduce a dozen new names nobody has heard about. The argument we're putting forward isn't that straying from the holy written word is a problem, it's that doing it poorly is a problem and the show has been doing it more and more poorly as the seasons have gone on.
Like, there was genuine hope for the Jamie/Bronn Dorne Bro-ad trip. It could have gone great places. It did not. I'd love to hear what a show only person thinks the plot of that was.
As a show-only person, I found all the seasons continually stronger up until 5. I've never read the books but I felt the weight of the series just increase until this latest season.
The point of the Dorne trip? There was no point. It was a poorly executed thing. It wouldn't have been so bad if OH THE DISASTER had never been written in there, but there it is. I felt like they could've gotten rid of the entire plotline and just replaced it with Tyrion and Dany waxing political and I would've been as happy as a pig in shit.
I'm so happy most show watchers picked up on this. That whole plotline was made up and was so terrible and unnecessary. Top to bottom just a mess.
I kind of wish they had done it off-screen. Or not done it at all.
Compare that to Arya's fumbling around, which I loved a lot. It shows she's still a little girl, despite her advanced maturity. Also, Maisie Williams is an incredible actress. Her scene with The Hound at the end of the last season, where she just stared, was a minor masterwork from this young lady. She's 18 in real-life, and it's crazy how well she pulls off being much younger.
The worst part is what was cut to have Jamie fumble around in Dorne. What we could have had instead would have been similar in tone to his journey with Brienne, something that causes actual character growth. (no details in case we still get that in future seasons)
Instead we get him bumbling around in the sand with one coincidence after another. Yay.
I have to say I laughed out loud when they showed what the prince's "condition" was for Bronn's release.
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RhalloTonnyOf the BrownlandsRegistered Userregular
Posts
Westerlands: Hill
Reach: Flowers
Crownlands (also probably Dragonstone): Waters
Iron Islands: Pyke
I know the bastard names and conventions.
I am just saying that if GRRM had done that, which has not apparently, and it wasn't just a coincidence, it would look like dumb anime bullshit.
It should be what?
Edit-do you mean i should mark stuff like that as speculation? I can do that if that's what you mean.
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
Future book speculation stuff. Ultra spoilers:
Was book Stannis also a grammar nazi? Because that's his most appealing trait on the show
I disagree. There are many things not in the show so far that are sort of major things that might show up later.
Which reminds me, the Japanese covers for the game of thrones books are pretty interesting, its fun to see different artists take on the same character.
For example we have very anime Jon Snow:
And not anime at all Jon Snow:
Also there will always be something magical to me about the Japanese dub of the show:
You'd have to have some modicum of faith in D&D for that to happen. Not to mention it would somehow have to be written from scratch why they happen on a different timeline/pacing than originally in the books.
Fat chance, I say.
still, no reason to spoil it for other people
Is that there is a massive difference in opinion about the quality of the show between book readers and television viewers.
This will be interesting.
Along with that, I feel spoiler tagging stuff helps compartmentalize the show/books as different things. It's not necessarily about shocking events, either. Parts of the story that haven't happened (or been rewritten to clearly no longer be necessary) might still be depicted on the show, and I think it'd be respectful to let people choose whether or not to see discussion related to those events.
Could you expound on that? I have read the TV thread but not the book thread at all.
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
There is a very vocal group that is not terribly pleased with the alterations the show has made this season. Practically none of them were positive compared to the book storylines.
It's easier to say something is stupid when you have a better way laid out for you right over there.
I agree, and I've read the books.
That actually seems to be in line with the TV thread opinion which seems to be that Season 5 is not as good as previous seasons in many ways.
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
He is. He's also got a lot of great deadpan snark in the books, which never really seemed to make it into the show for some reason. In general he's a much greyer character in the books; he still does horrible things, but his sympathetic attributes are much more pronounced.
Yeah, this is pretty important I think.
I've heard there were some positive changes in the shows from the books.
But yes, they're different mediums and books are often superior because your imagination allows things to be as epic, scary, beautiful, bleak, or happy as you'd like given the words.
I'd almost hope to see a minimum of book snobbery here. I'm guilty of it as much as anyone else, but if we're going to go the route of Printed Word Master Race it'll probably end up detracting from the thread as a whole.
Would it be at all possible to declare, right now, that Books Are Almost Always Better as a universally known fact for everyone here so we don't have to slog through pages of it?
Season 5 was a dense rush of set-ups and piece moving. We saw so many new things in Season 5 but weren't allowed to just absorb them because they were gone in a heartbeat. Also, the entirety of the Dorne thing was just... fucking dumb.
It was important, story-wise, but weak when it comes to the actual show.
And this is coming from someone who generally likes his fantasy novels the longer the better.
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
Another good example of the difference between show Stannis and book Stannis is this quote from the books from when he was stuck in the snow outside Winterfell:
Considering how it unfolds in the show, his reasons for not doing such in the book are pretty accurate. Smart guy that book!Stannis...
edit: I also feel the need to mention how the show strips out so much of the nuance and hope the books have. Combine this with the showrunner's over reliance on coincidence and you are left with the show feeling both random and bleak. It's a real shame.
Eh. The changes made in the early seasons were actually quite good. The Cersei/Robert conversation about their marriage? Nowhere in the books and it was excellent. This season has definitely felt different in regards to quality of the adaption.
Most of the group recognize that some things are just unfilmable. That they want to avoid just shelving an actor/character for a season while they introduce a dozen new names nobody has heard about. The argument we're putting forward isn't that straying from the holy written word is a problem, it's that doing it poorly is a problem and the show has been doing it more and more poorly as the seasons have gone on.
Like, there was genuine hope for the Jamie/Bronn Dorne Bro-ad trip. It could have gone great places. It did not. I'd love to hear what a show only person thinks the plot of that was.
Nah, that's a terrible idea.
As a show-only person, I found all the seasons continually stronger up until 5. I've never read the books but I felt the weight of the series just increase until this latest season.
The point of the Dorne trip? There was no point. It was a poorly executed thing. It wouldn't have been so bad if OH THE DISASTER had never been written in there, but there it is. I felt like they could've gotten rid of the entire plotline and just replaced it with Tyrion and Dany waxing political and I would've been as happy as a pig in shit.
It's a little more complex than that. Yes, books generally are better because they have more room to develop ideas and let you exercise your imagination. But the show has made changes to characters and plot that are deeply puzzling to many people who have read the books, as they seem like poor choices and the need for them is not obvious. It's quite possible there was a need for them. We often don't know the exact limitations of casting, budget and time that the show has. We are not privy to the discussions in their writers room, where they try to hash out how to adapt these very complicated books plots, nor are we privy to the conversations they have with GRRM about what he has planned for the future.
And the show does sometimes improve on things. There are a number of scenes in the show, especially in the first season, that aren't present in the books, and are very, very good. This scene, between Cersei and King Robert, is fantastic, as it gives insight into the relationship between the two character that we don't really get to see in the novels:
It's not simple snobbery because of the different mediums. It's confusion over a lack of understanding of why certain changes where made (or a very cynical interpretation of why they may have been made) that leads to disappointment and anger. That said, this absolutely should not overwhelm the thread, and I think extended digressions where people argue about this should perhaps be confined to spoilers.
I'm so happy most show watchers picked up on this. That whole plotline was made up and was so terrible and unnecessary. Top to bottom just a mess.
I kind of wish they had done it off-screen. Or not done it at all.
Compare that to Arya's fumbling around, which I loved a lot. It shows she's still a little girl, despite her advanced maturity. Also, Maisie Williams is an incredible actress. Her scene with The Hound at the end of the last season, where she just stared, was a minor masterwork from this young lady. She's 18 in real-life, and it's crazy how well she pulls off being much younger.
Yeah the two of them meeting back up was the highlight of the season 5 finale.
Nintendo ID: Incindium
PSN: IncindiumX
The worst part is what was cut to have Jamie fumble around in Dorne. What we could have had instead would have been similar in tone to his journey with Brienne, something that causes actual character growth. (no details in case we still get that in future seasons)
Instead we get him bumbling around in the sand with one coincidence after another. Yay.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
I have to say I laughed out loud when they showed what the prince's "condition" was for Bronn's release.
chaos is a ladduh