writing that post took too much time and was overwhelmingly on my mind so i had to post it but i actually need to get work done today so i can't really address any responses yet
that said what i just skimmed only seemed to be addressing a single point, and i have more on my mind than just kicking
you're on the admin side of things, but have you or have you ever wanted to step in on the moderation side? ever seen something in a thread and wanted to shut it down?
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I don't know why Deni delete his post where he was nice to me, but I do try my best to make sure the whole Census/Opinion thing is handled so that as few people as possible are bothered while collecting the most data.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Regardless of Zay's question on thread-specific banning, I do think it would be great to have some more transparency in how and why moderation decisions are made, and potentially some sort of actual escalation path in the case of disagreements. As it is now, your choice is; speak to the mod who punished you directly and express contrition (regardless of whether the punitive action was legit or not in your mind), or GTFO. It would be good to have some sort of clarified process that allows the community to understand (and comment on) the way the community's being managed, and to resolve those differences of opinion in a way that isn't completely black box.
The "bans" thread did this to some small extent but I think a more up-front and open process would foster the perception that mods are accountable for their decisions and ultimately help diffuse the discord around those controversial disciplinary situations.
Would there ever be a potential option to not see reactions at all (assuming there isn't already one I've missed???)
It bothers me a lot how much I sometimes care about them, but I also appreciate that this is a personal problem and not one that should require any coding or anything
Would there ever be a potential option to not see reactions at all (assuming there isn't already one I've missed???)
It bothers me a lot how much I sometimes care about them, but I also appreciate that this is a personal problem and not one that should require any coding or anything
So I'm just asking out of curiosity, mainly
You could probably write a stylish theme that hides them. If I was at my computer I'd take a look.
Regardless of Zay's question on thread-specific banning, I do think it would be great to have some more transparency in how and why moderation decisions are made, and potentially some sort of actual escalation path in the case of disagreements. As it is now, your choice is; speak to the mod who punished you directly and express contrition (regardless of whether the punitive action was legit or not in your mind), or GTFO. It would be good to have some sort of clarified process that allows the community to understand (and comment on) the way the community's being managed, and to resolve those differences of opinion in a way that isn't completely black box.
The "bans" thread did this to some small extent but I think a more up-front and open process would foster the perception that mods are accountable for their decisions and ultimately help diffuse the discord around those controversial disciplinary situations.
There is a procedure for escalating. It's described in the rules thread in some detail. The short version is, talk to the mod from whence the action came. If you are not satisfied with the answer given, talk to the Administrator. If you are not satisfied with the Administrator's response, too bad.
If at any point you are being a jerk in that process, the process will help you less.
If the question is "who moderates the moderators?" the answer is primarily Tube and to a lesser extent the other moderators. Every moderator can see every moderation decision. There have definitely been times where the mod staff has done a "why did you do that?" with a decision that was made. The decision is then discussed and potentially changes are made.
zerzhul on
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BugBoyboy.EXE has stopped functioning.only bugs remainRegistered Userregular
Sorry buddy. Most spiders and I have reached an accord, but I'm not about to be trapped in what should be my safest place with an angry wasp. And I had a hard enough time coaxing him out of my light fixture--I didn't have the steel nerve to try and somehow guide him outside.
I'm only kidding
I love bugs, but I realize that sometimes you have to get rid of them
Regardless of Zay's question on thread-specific banning, I do think it would be great to have some more transparency in how and why moderation decisions are made, and potentially some sort of actual escalation path in the case of disagreements. As it is now, your choice is; speak to the mod who punished you directly and express contrition (regardless of whether the punitive action was legit or not in your mind), or GTFO. It would be good to have some sort of clarified process that allows the community to understand (and comment on) the way the community's being managed, and to resolve those differences of opinion in a way that isn't completely black box.
The "bans" thread did this to some small extent but I think a more up-front and open process would foster the perception that mods are accountable for their decisions and ultimately help diffuse the discord around those controversial disciplinary situations.
There is a procedure for escalating. It's described in the rules thread in some detail. The short version is, talk to the mod from whence the action came. If you are not satisfied with the answer given, talk to the Administrator. If you are not satisfied with the Administrator's response, too bad.
If at any point you are being a jerk in that process, the process will help you less.
What do you do in the case of thread closure where you may not know who the mod was? Just curious.
Regardless of Zay's question on thread-specific banning, I do think it would be great to have some more transparency in how and why moderation decisions are made, and potentially some sort of actual escalation path in the case of disagreements. As it is now, your choice is; speak to the mod who punished you directly and express contrition (regardless of whether the punitive action was legit or not in your mind), or GTFO. It would be good to have some sort of clarified process that allows the community to understand (and comment on) the way the community's being managed, and to resolve those differences of opinion in a way that isn't completely black box.
The "bans" thread did this to some small extent but I think a more up-front and open process would foster the perception that mods are accountable for their decisions and ultimately help diffuse the discord around those controversial disciplinary situations.
There is a procedure for escalating. It's described in the rules thread in some detail. The short version is, talk to the mod from whence the action came. If you are not satisfied with the answer given, talk to the Administrator. If you are not satisfied with the Administrator's response, too bad.
Of course, but that process is still completely obscured from the community at-large and the result is ultimately contingent on the opinion of, at most, two people. Even if it's rarely utilized I think just having a more-detailed and transparent process would help the vibe in contentious situations.
Regardless of Zay's question on thread-specific banning, I do think it would be great to have some more transparency in how and why moderation decisions are made, and potentially some sort of actual escalation path in the case of disagreements. As it is now, your choice is; speak to the mod who punished you directly and express contrition (regardless of whether the punitive action was legit or not in your mind), or GTFO. It would be good to have some sort of clarified process that allows the community to understand (and comment on) the way the community's being managed, and to resolve those differences of opinion in a way that isn't completely black box.
The "bans" thread did this to some small extent but I think a more up-front and open process would foster the perception that mods are accountable for their decisions and ultimately help diffuse the discord around those controversial disciplinary situations.
There is a procedure for escalating. It's described in the rules thread in some detail. The short version is, talk to the mod from whence the action came. If you are not satisfied with the answer given, talk to the Administrator. If you are not satisfied with the Administrator's response, too bad.
If at any point you are being a jerk in that process, the process will help you less.
What do you do in the case of thread closure where you may not know who the mod was? Just curious.
PM a mod from that forum, and if we don't know we'll ask the others.
Sorry buddy. Most spiders and I have reached an accord, but I'm not about to be trapped in what should be my safest place with an angry wasp. And I had a hard enough time coaxing him out of my light fixture--I didn't have the steel nerve to try and somehow guide him outside.
I'm only kidding
I love bugs, but I realize that sometimes you have to get rid of them
I've done the same thing
Which of the new reactions is the "Bro?" equivalent?
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I Win Swordfightsall the traits of greatnessstarlight at my feetRegistered Userregular
Sorry buddy. Most spiders and I have reached an accord, but I'm not about to be trapped in what should be my safest place with an angry wasp. And I had a hard enough time coaxing him out of my light fixture--I didn't have the steel nerve to try and somehow guide him outside.
I'm only kidding
I love bugs, but I realize that sometimes you have to get rid of them
I've done the same thing
Which of the new reactions is the "Bro?" equivalent?
I have no idea what any of them mean, so I chose Shiny for that purpose!
Bobkins brings up a good point, and this is also a question for Tube:
Is there something that can be done to give more transparency to when moderator action is being taken? Right now, we can't see when a post gets infracted, and we can't view a user's infractions, and you don't make a point of updating the infractions thread for everyone's general infractions because it is admittedly a pain in the hole. This can sometimes lead to the impression that unless we can literally see a user get jailed or banned, that a user is getting away with something with impunity and a post is perfectly kosher even though it's totally not and they ate an infraction for it because we're not seeing what's going on. Unless the moderator publicly shows up in the thread to yell at the person for it, we don't necessarily know any moderator action has taken place.
Are there any steps being taken place to fix this issue? Displaying a post got a user infracted seems like the easiest fix, but that might be a serious technical challenge for Icy, I don't know all of why that changed.
Regardless of Zay's question on thread-specific banning, I do think it would be great to have some more transparency in how and why moderation decisions are made, and potentially some sort of actual escalation path in the case of disagreements. As it is now, your choice is; speak to the mod who punished you directly and express contrition (regardless of whether the punitive action was legit or not in your mind), or GTFO. It would be good to have some sort of clarified process that allows the community to understand (and comment on) the way the community's being managed, and to resolve those differences of opinion in a way that isn't completely black box.
The "bans" thread did this to some small extent but I think a more up-front and open process would foster the perception that mods are accountable for their decisions and ultimately help diffuse the discord around those controversial disciplinary situations.
There is a procedure for escalating. It's described in the rules thread in some detail. The short version is, talk to the mod from whence the action came. If you are not satisfied with the answer given, talk to the Administrator. If you are not satisfied with the Administrator's response, too bad.
If at any point you are being a jerk in that process, the process will help you less.
I think what John and Zay are trying to get at is that the method in which public moderation is handled does not necessarily invite a dialogue all the time?
I don't agree that the thread kicking tool is a bad tool, but I do think that the way it's used currently is less than ideal
I respect the decisions the moderation staff makes, but I do not need to see users castigated in public for their mistakes, especially if there is no follow-up in private
It effectively slams the door in someone's face, upon which the moderator chastizes them from the other side
It also serves to make the moderation staff's opinions seem infallible, because there's no avenue open for debate
So if I see a moderator stepping out of line, I do not feel comfortable bringing it up
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denihilistAncient and MightyRegistered User, Moderatormod
Regardless of Zay's question on thread-specific banning, I do think it would be great to have some more transparency in how and why moderation decisions are made, and potentially some sort of actual escalation path in the case of disagreements. As it is now, your choice is; speak to the mod who punished you directly and express contrition (regardless of whether the punitive action was legit or not in your mind), or GTFO. It would be good to have some sort of clarified process that allows the community to understand (and comment on) the way the community's being managed, and to resolve those differences of opinion in a way that isn't completely black box.
The "bans" thread did this to some small extent but I think a more up-front and open process would foster the perception that mods are accountable for their decisions and ultimately help diffuse the discord around those controversial disciplinary situations.
There is a procedure for escalating. It's described in the rules thread in some detail. The short version is, talk to the mod from whence the action came. If you are not satisfied with the answer given, talk to the Administrator. If you are not satisfied with the Administrator's response, too bad.
Of course, but that process is still completely obscured from the community at-large and the result is ultimately contingent on the opinion of, at most, two people. Even if it's rarely utilized I think just having a more-detailed and transparent process would help the vibe in contentious situations.
Ex-admin here: no, it wouldn't. Any major decision that I made that I tried to do transparently was met with disaster.
Good job. I've been here....kind of a while and I always marvel at how much shit you guys gotta put up with.
I've witnessed the dark days pre-glorious edict, when the personal attacks were getting way out of hand.
I was there for Katchem_Ash, both Stormy's, the server transition, Lime, the G&T circlejerk chat thread, the megathreads, Every single Anime thread that always, inevitably spiral out of control because people are terrible, Geebs singlehandedly keeping G&T alive, the World of Warcraft thread.
There were some dark damn days and you handled them as best you could, and I'll always appreciate that, since these forums got me through many a workday.
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
Are there any steps being taken place to fix this issue? Displaying a post got a user infracted seems like the easiest fix, but that might be a serious technical challenge for Icy, I don't know all of why that changed.
I can't speak on technical issues, but we're doing stopgaps in the meantime. D&D and SE++ have infraction/ban threads, and I'm trying to remember to use the quote functions on Geth so it can publicly show when an infraction is happening, the post being infracted, and give a reason.
+1
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Clint EastwoodMy baby's in there someplaceShe crawled right inRegistered Userregular
If you got kicked from a thread odds are you know exactly why. Nothing against zay but there's no blood left in that stone, bruh bruh
Regardless of Zay's question on thread-specific banning, I do think it would be great to have some more transparency in how and why moderation decisions are made, and potentially some sort of actual escalation path in the case of disagreements. As it is now, your choice is; speak to the mod who punished you directly and express contrition (regardless of whether the punitive action was legit or not in your mind), or GTFO. It would be good to have some sort of clarified process that allows the community to understand (and comment on) the way the community's being managed, and to resolve those differences of opinion in a way that isn't completely black box.
The "bans" thread did this to some small extent but I think a more up-front and open process would foster the perception that mods are accountable for their decisions and ultimately help diffuse the discord around those controversial disciplinary situations.
There is a procedure for escalating. It's described in the rules thread in some detail. The short version is, talk to the mod from whence the action came. If you are not satisfied with the answer given, talk to the Administrator. If you are not satisfied with the Administrator's response, too bad.
Of course, but that process is still completely obscured from the community at-large and the result is ultimately contingent on the opinion of, at most, two people. Even if it's rarely utilized I think just having a more-detailed and transparent process would help the vibe in contentious situations.
Ex-admin here: no, it wouldn't. Any major decision that I made that I tried to do transparently was met with disaster.
It would make me feel better.
This community has changed a lot over the years. A lot. Presuming something would work badly now because it worked badly X years ago ignores a lot of context.
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denihilistAncient and MightyRegistered User, Moderatormod
Regardless of Zay's question on thread-specific banning, I do think it would be great to have some more transparency in how and why moderation decisions are made, and potentially some sort of actual escalation path in the case of disagreements. As it is now, your choice is; speak to the mod who punished you directly and express contrition (regardless of whether the punitive action was legit or not in your mind), or GTFO. It would be good to have some sort of clarified process that allows the community to understand (and comment on) the way the community's being managed, and to resolve those differences of opinion in a way that isn't completely black box.
The "bans" thread did this to some small extent but I think a more up-front and open process would foster the perception that mods are accountable for their decisions and ultimately help diffuse the discord around those controversial disciplinary situations.
There is a procedure for escalating. It's described in the rules thread in some detail. The short version is, talk to the mod from whence the action came. If you are not satisfied with the answer given, talk to the Administrator. If you are not satisfied with the Administrator's response, too bad.
Of course, but that process is still completely obscured from the community at-large and the result is ultimately contingent on the opinion of, at most, two people. Even if it's rarely utilized I think just having a more-detailed and transparent process would help the vibe in contentious situations.
Ex-admin here: no, it wouldn't. Any major decision that I made that I tried to do transparently was met with disaster.
To elaborate just a bit, it was my commitment to that transparency and attempt to be helpful and understanding that eventually burned me out and turned me into a bit of a jerk.
There's a reason your parents say, "because I said so." Yeah, it sucks when you're a kid and they should endeavor to explain as much as possible, but sometimes a decision has to be made that isn't up for discussion and that's that.
Posts
I just overtook crwth and it's my greatest achievement.
that said what i just skimmed only seemed to be addressing a single point, and i have more on my mind than just kicking
the secret is that forum points are inversely proportional to your post quality
Coming for you Rorus
you're on the admin side of things, but have you or have you ever wanted to step in on the moderation side? ever seen something in a thread and wanted to shut it down?
Wang size
Can wang
i guess but i wasn't fishing for compliments
i am actively working on improving
i don't mind being acknowledged for those improvements, that's fine
but at the same time that doesn't mean i'm blind to the things i've done or the person i've been
The "bans" thread did this to some small extent but I think a more up-front and open process would foster the perception that mods are accountable for their decisions and ultimately help diffuse the discord around those controversial disciplinary situations.
It bothers me a lot how much I sometimes care about them, but I also appreciate that this is a personal problem and not one that should require any coding or anything
So I'm just asking out of curiosity, mainly
an attitude the forum as a whole could learn from, I think
I know duder.
I just felt like it.
And I kinda feel you on that one.
You could probably write a stylish theme that hides them. If I was at my computer I'd take a look.
If at any point you are being a jerk in that process, the process will help you less.
If the question is "who moderates the moderators?" the answer is primarily Tube and to a lesser extent the other moderators. Every moderator can see every moderation decision. There have definitely been times where the mod staff has done a "why did you do that?" with a decision that was made. The decision is then discussed and potentially changes are made.
I'm only kidding
I love bugs, but I realize that sometimes you have to get rid of them
I've done the same thing
do any forumers have mod forum nicknames
like stuff they only get called in the mod forum
if so what is one of them (you don't have to say what forumer it is, just the nickname)
So to you all it looks like people are getting jailed or banned out of the blue.
What do you do in the case of thread closure where you may not know who the mod was? Just curious.
Of course, but that process is still completely obscured from the community at-large and the result is ultimately contingent on the opinion of, at most, two people. Even if it's rarely utilized I think just having a more-detailed and transparent process would help the vibe in contentious situations.
I came barely remember people's handles, let alone a nickname.
Which of the new reactions is the "Bro?" equivalent?
I think it was part of what happened when they made it so you couldn't check other people's infractions
A hobby of mine on the old forums
I have no idea what any of them mean, so I chose Shiny for that purpose!
well that explains a lot, I thought you guys had completely stopped using the infraction system.
Is there something that can be done to give more transparency to when moderator action is being taken? Right now, we can't see when a post gets infracted, and we can't view a user's infractions, and you don't make a point of updating the infractions thread for everyone's general infractions because it is admittedly a pain in the hole. This can sometimes lead to the impression that unless we can literally see a user get jailed or banned, that a user is getting away with something with impunity and a post is perfectly kosher even though it's totally not and they ate an infraction for it because we're not seeing what's going on. Unless the moderator publicly shows up in the thread to yell at the person for it, we don't necessarily know any moderator action has taken place.
Are there any steps being taken place to fix this issue? Displaying a post got a user infracted seems like the easiest fix, but that might be a serious technical challenge for Icy, I don't know all of why that changed.
I think what John and Zay are trying to get at is that the method in which public moderation is handled does not necessarily invite a dialogue all the time?
I don't agree that the thread kicking tool is a bad tool, but I do think that the way it's used currently is less than ideal
I respect the decisions the moderation staff makes, but I do not need to see users castigated in public for their mistakes, especially if there is no follow-up in private
It effectively slams the door in someone's face, upon which the moderator chastizes them from the other side
It also serves to make the moderation staff's opinions seem infallible, because there's no avenue open for debate
So if I see a moderator stepping out of line, I do not feel comfortable bringing it up
Ex-admin here: no, it wouldn't. Any major decision that I made that I tried to do transparently was met with disaster.
Good job. I've been here....kind of a while and I always marvel at how much shit you guys gotta put up with.
I've witnessed the dark days pre-glorious edict, when the personal attacks were getting way out of hand.
I was there for Katchem_Ash, both Stormy's, the server transition, Lime, the G&T circlejerk chat thread, the megathreads, Every single Anime thread that always, inevitably spiral out of control because people are terrible, Geebs singlehandedly keeping G&T alive, the World of Warcraft thread.
There were some dark damn days and you handled them as best you could, and I'll always appreciate that, since these forums got me through many a workday.
To be completely honest, I haven't really noticed this happening.
What is your spirit animal?
It would make me feel better.
This community has changed a lot over the years. A lot. Presuming something would work badly now because it worked badly X years ago ignores a lot of context.
To elaborate just a bit, it was my commitment to that transparency and attempt to be helpful and understanding that eventually burned me out and turned me into a bit of a jerk.
There's a reason your parents say, "because I said so." Yeah, it sucks when you're a kid and they should endeavor to explain as much as possible, but sometimes a decision has to be made that isn't up for discussion and that's that.
I doubt that happens unless said person does something deserving of being chastised a bit.