I just booted up Prison Architect for the first time and did the tutorial. While I was waiting for the execution chamber to build, I was looking around and happened to click on a scrawny-looking guy in the yard. 19 years old, with an 18 year old wife, serving 20 years for manslaughter. Plead guilty. Jesus.
Later, while I was laying wires, I got some sort of random pill popup on the screen. I followed it and saw a prisoner who was passed out from an OD. Nobody seemed to be doing anything about it, so I ordered a search of his cell. Two guards come in. One of them grabs the guy off the floor, slams him into the wall, cuffs him, and throws his unconscious body back to the ground. The second guard promptly falls asleep in his bed. The first guard leaves and locks the door on both of them. The prisoner dies immediately thereafter.
@Mr Ray There's also an Ex-Law trait that tends to get guys murdered. Thats one I wish wouldn't be hidden since its logical for it to not be and you can just slap him in protective custody so he doesn't get murdered as soon as he walks in the prison
Yeah, its possible someone has that, but honestly it just seems like they're beating up dudes at random now; after three deaths in four days I think I'm going to have to set up something like your "luxury cell" solution for my MaxSec guys. And then make sure there is absolutely no overlap between when they're in the dining room and when the other prisoners are, even if they have to eat their meals at 3am and sleep during the day. Having separate meal and shower times for my normal and MaxSec prisoners seems to have helped, but they still overlap during free time and when entering/leaving the canteen at meal times. I just wish I could also ban them from work programs, where they inevitably spend all their time making weapons.
Yeah the luxury cell thing is for Super max, I only ever had a dozen or so of those cells. They're locked behind solitary doors separate from the general prison, a separate small shower and canteen (I route the cooks around behind so they don't have to go through the cell block). Their yard is surrounded by perimeter walls and jail doors for entrances and exits. Armed guards in each cell block and the yard, CCTV everywhere, and like 2-3 guards per deployment area. Even with all that Mr. Russell above was able to kill 5 or 6 guards in two separate tantrums. But they're mostly isolated from the rest of the prison so if they riot there's not much they can do.
The worst break-out I've had was when a riot started in the Kitchen, 20 or so prisoners rushed the front gates, where I only had 2 staff doors, they knocked them down and ran for it before I could even do anything.
0
Options
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
So it seems like dogs will get false-positives for tunnel markers sometimes, meaning that you can't always be sure that marker they placed means the cell block searches you're doing will actually turn up anything.
@Mr Ray There's also an Ex-Law trait that tends to get guys murdered. Thats one I wish wouldn't be hidden since its logical for it to not be and you can just slap him in protective custody so he doesn't get murdered as soon as he walks in the prison
Yeah, its possible someone has that, but honestly it just seems like they're beating up dudes at random now; after three deaths in four days I think I'm going to have to set up something like your "luxury cell" solution for my MaxSec guys. And then make sure there is absolutely no overlap between when they're in the dining room and when the other prisoners are, even if they have to eat their meals at 3am and sleep during the day. Having separate meal and shower times for my normal and MaxSec prisoners seems to have helped, but they still overlap during free time and when entering/leaving the canteen at meal times. I just wish I could also ban them from work programs, where they inevitably spend all their time making weapons.
Yeah the luxury cell thing is for Super max, I only ever had a dozen or so of those cells. They're locked behind solitary doors separate from the general prison, a separate small shower and canteen (I route the cooks around behind so they don't have to go through the cell block). Their yard is surrounded by perimeter walls and jail doors for entrances and exits. Armed guards in each cell block and the yard, CCTV everywhere, and like 2-3 guards per deployment area. Even with all that Mr. Russell above was able to kill 5 or 6 guards in two separate tantrums. But they're mostly isolated from the rest of the prison so if they riot there's not much they can do.
The worst break-out I've had was when a riot started in the Kitchen, 20 or so prisoners rushed the front gates, where I only had 2 staff doors, they knocked them down and ran for it before I could even do anything.
I'm going for a slightly different approach from yours; my "beta" supermax cells that I'm currently trialing on my MaxSeccers are not quite as luxurious as yours, but they do have individual showers since that seems to be where a lot of fights happen. I'm planning to let them out to eat and work only at night; they'll sleep during the day and have their limited free time in a separate MaxSec only rec room. I usually don't schedule yard time since prisoners can just use the yard in their free time if they want to, but I will for the MaxSeccers just to make sure they're not sharing the yard with the general population. They might get their own yard eventually if it becomes necessary, and maybe even their own canteen.
Oh, and I was absolutely right to be paranoid about tunnels; three prisoners escaped through one and I still have no idea where it is even after searching every cell block. I wish I had the cash to hire dog handlers...
It might be worth centralizing the pipe network and putting the pump near the middle of your jail. I've been pretty good about stopping the tunnelers, although I had one escape when a few of them had a tunnel that ended inside an 'airlock' style room near my entrance. The guards ran in to stop them, and I guess one of them ran past him when the door opened. The rest got tazed though. The tunnels went super far from the middle of max sec to the entrance was no small task. And my guard dogs weren't catching them
BlindPsychic on
0
Options
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Here's a couple of screenshots showing my setup for water:
No escapes so far, because I have a gap up at the top of the map (the closest way out between the end of the water mains and getting outside the facility) which is constantly patrolled by dogs 24/7. If you look at the easiest way out of a facility, that's pretty much the way inmates will go, so you can set dogs to patrol in those areas.
Oh, and a super-helpful thing to know is that you can do shakedowns without doing actual shakedowns that piss off the inmates. Click on stuff in a cell or an inmate and you'll see an option that says "search cellblock"; the guards will search just that cellblock and it doesn't make everybody mad, and definitely has a very good chance of finding tunnels. Well worth it to perform periodic random cellblock inspections; found a number of tunnels that way before they even got outside.
0
Options
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
If you do the individual searches during mealtime you also don't make ANYONE mad.
...I have tried to play this game several times, and this update gave me a good reason to try again, but I cannot get past the theme. It bothers me a lot. I appreciate that the developers tried / are still trying to give the subject matter the respect it requires, but... I don't know if that's even possible within this medium.
'Have fun while running this jail and executing people and watching people's lives get ruined,'
I can do that in a fantasy setting, because it's a fantasy setting, it's often over the top & I know that stuff doesn't actually happen. But people do go to jail all of the time, the violence inherent to that system in North America is very real, and the game makes me feel like it ought to be entertaining to watch. Which I feel crosses a line I'm not quite willing to step over.
I think I'll always watch the development of the title because I'm interested to see what it turns into, and I'm sure I'll try it some more when the developers flesh it out in the way they hope to, but right now it's just too voyeuristic in my opinion.
The Ender on
With Love and Courage
+1
Options
David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
I just can't morally support this game. With the private prison industry and biased convictions towards the poor it just doesn't seem right to make a game of it
Making a game out of it is a great way to get people educated about these kinds of things. Introversion is taking the topic pretty seriously, even though this isn't a serious business game about social conscience.
By the time they are done with the game you will be able to experiment with all kinds of rehabilitation programs.
edit: If it means anything they are also getting a ton of input from people who have been inside the prison system itself, both working for the system and people who were incarcerated.
I just can't morally support this game. With the private prison industry and biased convictions towards the poor it just doesn't seem right to make a game of it
Watching your prisoners slowly devolve into time bombs if you treat them shitty, or seeing a prison run almost entirely hands off with no issues if you actually treat them as human beings is pretty much the most objective depiction of prisons around the world we are going to get. Running your prison like an American system results in chaos and bloodshed. Run it like a Euro prison, and it's easy times.
I just can't morally support this game. With the private prison industry and biased convictions towards the poor it just doesn't seem right to make a game of it
Watching your prisoners slowly devolve into time bombs if you treat them shitty, or seeing a prison run almost entirely hands off with no issues if you actually treat them as human beings is pretty much the most objective depiction of prisons around the world we are going to get. Running your prison like an American system results in chaos and bloodshed. Run it like a Euro prison, and it's easy times.
It's not that I think they did a poor job (afterall, it's not even done yet) or that I think it's unethical to make the game. It just bothers me.
Like, I see the inmates coming off of the transport and being lined-up, and I think, "That is actually happening. Right now,"
And then I keep playing for a while and I set-up a workshop, because my prison can't financially support itself forever on grants... and then I just stop, because that shit is actually happening right now. Not that prisons are supporting themselves on the labor (they're not - they rely almost entirely on public subsidy), but prisoners are actually being run through labor camps and paid just enough to insult them.
I can't participate in that. Not even in the abstract.
To some extent, it's to the game's credit that it succeeded in striking that chord. But it's not a chord I really want struck while i play a game (especially one intended for longer play sessions, like Prison Architect).
With Love and Courage
+1
Options
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
So Prison Architect is up on Steam for a meager ten bucks, which is well worth the price. Highly, highly recommend grabbing this.
+3
Options
David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
How is it 3 AM again?
Do I not learn?
Would more psychologists help my prison? Hold on, let me just check th--no, no! Bed!
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
definitely
if there's one thing Prison Architect definitely is, it is a thinly veiled criticism of the US prison system against the European prison system.
+1
Options
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I dunno about the "thinly" part.
It's probably one of the best and most subtle approaches I've seen in presenting an issue, because unlike 99.99999% of games which try to make some sort of sociopolitical point, Prison Architect doesn't do it in any sort of hamfisted way. Treat people like people and they act like people, treat people like garbage and they end up terrible. It's completely up to the player to figure out that it's actually more rewarding to run a civilized prison then an awful one.
Mrs. Rhesus has had real issues with one prisoner lately, who is volatile, deadly and fearless. He's already killed three people, so it's the first time she's considered setting up an execution chamber - he just keeps racking up the body count, even in solitary 23 hours a day.
She's also had to deal with a snitch who can't resist pissing people off, so there're constant stabbings in the cafeteria.
Man it's been so long since I last played this game... it was before the CCTV stuff was even in, so I played a pretty basic version of the game (especially compared to where it is now) and burned myself out on it just a bit.
I decided to watch the latest update, and while they're talking about stuff they just added in, I'm sitting here boggling at all the stuff they just gloss over because it's already in the game and probably has been for awhile. I'm really amazed at how much they keep adding in, where I think most developers would have called it a game and moved on to DLC or something.
Mrs. Rhesus has had real issues with one prisoner lately, who is volatile, deadly and fearless. He's already killed three people, so it's the first time she's considered setting up an execution chamber - he just keeps racking up the body count, even in solitary 23 hours a day.
She's also had to deal with a snitch who can't resist pissing people off, so there're constant stabbings in the cafeteria.
There has to be a way of combining those two problems to solve at least one of them.
+5
Options
Nbspshe laughs, like Godher mind's like a diamondRegistered Userregular
edited July 2015
Are any of the prisoners in the game actually ever wrongly convicted?
I got this game way back when I heard about it but it was too unfinished to keep playing enjoyably, and now I feel like it's old.
Nbsp on
0
Options
wiltingI had fun once and it was awfulRegistered Userregular
I've built one execution trial. I actually had a wrongfully convicted death row guy in my first 5 test subjects. I felt so wrong after that, that I've yet to boot up the newer release. I think they hit this feature straight out of the ballpark, if they can get this response from me. I was quite surprised at my own reaction.
If anyone is still on the fence here, buy the damn game, its good.
These are the stories of Dwarf Fortress. Legends have been forged there, and meticulousy gathered in one mighty hub: http://dfstories.com/start-here/
That does seem odd that a wrongly-convicted prisoner being executed would be bad for the prison, since it's generally not the prison who should decide whether someone is executed... they only carry out the deed.
I think in that case, should I ever build one, I'll only execute people who commit murders while in my prison? Since apparently I'm the decider. :P
Nbspshe laughs, like Godher mind's like a diamondRegistered Userregular
edited July 2015
When will they build a Prison Space Station version of this game where all the prisoners are hardened criminal aliens from all over the galaxy and you can build all sorts of cool sci-fi stuff to keep them contained?
Then I wouldn't feel too weird playing a game about prisoners that parallels with real life.
When will they build a Prison Space Station version of this game where all the prisoners are hardened criminal aliens from all over the galaxy and you can build all sorts of cool sci-fi stuff to keep them contained?
Then I wouldn't feel too weird playing a game about prisoners that parallels with real life.
I think that weirdness is exactly the point
XBL Gamertag: Ipori
0
Options
Nbspshe laughs, like Godher mind's like a diamondRegistered Userregular
That does seem odd that a wrongly-convicted prisoner being executed would be bad for the prison, since it's generally not the prison who should decide whether someone is executed... they only carry out the deed.
I think in that case, should I ever build one, I'll only execute people who commit murders while in my prison? Since apparently I'm the decider. :P
The mechanic for this is that prisoners on death row have an appeal process they can go through; you can either wait until they exhaust all appeals or you can execute prior to this; each time they fail in their appeal the surety of their guilt goes up.
A bit of a strange mechanic(!) but that's how they shift some of the blame to you if he's innocent.
0
Options
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Playing a bit after a hiatus of a number of months.
Being able to sell your old prison to build a new one is an absolutely brilliant move for a game in development like this. Neatly circumvents the issue of progress wipes, while also letting you dive right in to building a new big prison that solves issues from the old one. Probably going to be no challenge at all to for me to open up with a prison fully capable of handling 60+ prisoners, with space prepped to take another 100+ before long.
Yeah, I built and sold a bunch of prisons so now I have a bit over $2 mil to play with. You are still restricted on employee hires by daily income, but you could totally just put intake on hold and build a complete prison before any inmates arrive.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I know some people have issue with the way the game glorifies running prisons for profit.
But honestly? I think it does the opposite. If you try to run your prison for profit, spending the bare minimum on your prisoners needs and wants, your prison will have alllll sorts of issues. If you run it more like a max security Resort, it actually works way better.
0
Options
Nbspshe laughs, like Godher mind's like a diamondRegistered Userregular
edited July 2015
What happens if you treat exactly half the prisoners like shit, and the other half like they are in a resort?
Is the game advanced enough that you'll notice differences in prisoner behavior when they mix? I think i'd be interested in playing little experiments like that.
If you have issues with the running prisons for profits thing, watch all the monthly dev update videos. They are great to listen to and they often debate the real world prison issues and how to portray them in game.
Bored of a lifestyle of plentiful holidays and late night boozing sessions with Mark, Chris has decided to put everyone under pressure and commit to a launch in October of this year.
There is still much work to be done and we need your opinion on Alpha 35 which launches today and includes a massive update to the gangs system. Prisoners can now trade contraband in the prison for cash and with cash come protection rackets. Gang leaders will actively instruct soldiers and lieutenants to acquire territory in order to extort dollars from the non-affiliated prisoners who want to use the facilities.
Posts
Later, while I was laying wires, I got some sort of random pill popup on the screen. I followed it and saw a prisoner who was passed out from an OD. Nobody seemed to be doing anything about it, so I ordered a search of his cell. Two guards come in. One of them grabs the guy off the floor, slams him into the wall, cuffs him, and throws his unconscious body back to the ground. The second guard promptly falls asleep in his bed. The first guard leaves and locks the door on both of them. The prisoner dies immediately thereafter.
10/10, would play tutorial again.
Yeah the luxury cell thing is for Super max, I only ever had a dozen or so of those cells. They're locked behind solitary doors separate from the general prison, a separate small shower and canteen (I route the cooks around behind so they don't have to go through the cell block). Their yard is surrounded by perimeter walls and jail doors for entrances and exits. Armed guards in each cell block and the yard, CCTV everywhere, and like 2-3 guards per deployment area. Even with all that Mr. Russell above was able to kill 5 or 6 guards in two separate tantrums. But they're mostly isolated from the rest of the prison so if they riot there's not much they can do.
The worst break-out I've had was when a riot started in the Kitchen, 20 or so prisoners rushed the front gates, where I only had 2 staff doors, they knocked them down and ran for it before I could even do anything.
But sometimes, tunnel.
I'm going for a slightly different approach from yours; my "beta" supermax cells that I'm currently trialing on my MaxSeccers are not quite as luxurious as yours, but they do have individual showers since that seems to be where a lot of fights happen. I'm planning to let them out to eat and work only at night; they'll sleep during the day and have their limited free time in a separate MaxSec only rec room. I usually don't schedule yard time since prisoners can just use the yard in their free time if they want to, but I will for the MaxSeccers just to make sure they're not sharing the yard with the general population. They might get their own yard eventually if it becomes necessary, and maybe even their own canteen.
Oh, and I was absolutely right to be paranoid about tunnels; three prisoners escaped through one and I still have no idea where it is even after searching every cell block. I wish I had the cash to hire dog handlers...
Oh, and a super-helpful thing to know is that you can do shakedowns without doing actual shakedowns that piss off the inmates. Click on stuff in a cell or an inmate and you'll see an option that says "search cellblock"; the guards will search just that cellblock and it doesn't make everybody mad, and definitely has a very good chance of finding tunnels. Well worth it to perform periodic random cellblock inspections; found a number of tunnels that way before they even got outside.
'Have fun while running this jail and executing people and watching people's lives get ruined,'
I can do that in a fantasy setting, because it's a fantasy setting, it's often over the top & I know that stuff doesn't actually happen. But people do go to jail all of the time, the violence inherent to that system in North America is very real, and the game makes me feel like it ought to be entertaining to watch. Which I feel crosses a line I'm not quite willing to step over.
I think I'll always watch the development of the title because I'm interested to see what it turns into, and I'm sure I'll try it some more when the developers flesh it out in the way they hope to, but right now it's just too voyeuristic in my opinion.
But if you do the individual searches during mealtime, you also have no chance of catching someone digging, which is what reveals the tunnels.
there was a great sequence about that topic a couple pages ago
Like, I see the inmates coming off of the transport and being lined-up, and I think, "That is actually happening. Right now,"
And then I keep playing for a while and I set-up a workshop, because my prison can't financially support itself forever on grants... and then I just stop, because that shit is actually happening right now. Not that prisons are supporting themselves on the labor (they're not - they rely almost entirely on public subsidy), but prisoners are actually being run through labor camps and paid just enough to insult them.
I can't participate in that. Not even in the abstract.
To some extent, it's to the game's credit that it succeeded in striking that chord. But it's not a chord I really want struck while i play a game (especially one intended for longer play sessions, like Prison Architect).
Do I not learn?
Would more psychologists help my prison? Hold on, let me just check th--no, no! Bed!
if there's one thing Prison Architect definitely is, it is a thinly veiled criticism of the US prison system against the European prison system.
It's probably one of the best and most subtle approaches I've seen in presenting an issue, because unlike 99.99999% of games which try to make some sort of sociopolitical point, Prison Architect doesn't do it in any sort of hamfisted way. Treat people like people and they act like people, treat people like garbage and they end up terrible. It's completely up to the player to figure out that it's actually more rewarding to run a civilized prison then an awful one.
She's also had to deal with a snitch who can't resist pissing people off, so there're constant stabbings in the cafeteria.
I decided to watch the latest update, and while they're talking about stuff they just added in, I'm sitting here boggling at all the stuff they just gloss over because it's already in the game and probably has been for awhile. I'm really amazed at how much they keep adding in, where I think most developers would have called it a game and moved on to DLC or something.
There has to be a way of combining those two problems to solve at least one of them.
I got this game way back when I heard about it but it was too unfinished to keep playing enjoyably, and now I feel like it's old.
Yes, its possible an executed prisoner can turn out to have been innocent, which doesn't go so well for your prison. Watch the alpha updates.
If anyone is still on the fence here, buy the damn game, its good.
I think in that case, should I ever build one, I'll only execute people who commit murders while in my prison? Since apparently I'm the decider. :P
Then I wouldn't feel too weird playing a game about prisoners that parallels with real life.
I think that weirdness is exactly the point
The mechanic for this is that prisoners on death row have an appeal process they can go through; you can either wait until they exhaust all appeals or you can execute prior to this; each time they fail in their appeal the surety of their guilt goes up.
A bit of a strange mechanic(!) but that's how they shift some of the blame to you if he's innocent.
Being able to sell your old prison to build a new one is an absolutely brilliant move for a game in development like this. Neatly circumvents the issue of progress wipes, while also letting you dive right in to building a new big prison that solves issues from the old one. Probably going to be no challenge at all to for me to open up with a prison fully capable of handling 60+ prisoners, with space prepped to take another 100+ before long.
But honestly? I think it does the opposite. If you try to run your prison for profit, spending the bare minimum on your prisoners needs and wants, your prison will have alllll sorts of issues. If you run it more like a max security Resort, it actually works way better.
Is the game advanced enough that you'll notice differences in prisoner behavior when they mix? I think i'd be interested in playing little experiments like that.