For charity, sure. I find them interesting and fun enough to do for that purpose, but they're too time consuming to do for my own enjoyment. I'd be more likely to take a critical angle than a "hahaha look how bad this game is" type of thing that I did before, because that's the kind of Let's Play I enjoy more myself.
Which game would be a prime candidate for this kind of commentary
I'm a fucking phenom at Blood Money, and could probably go over some interesting stuff. Absolution was pretty terrible and it could be interesting to say why. The original and contracts are probably just a little vanilla.
Can you report a post twice to add more information?
Like if you report, then see later posts, and want to add to your initial report instead of spamming the report board with new ones.
It'll add a comment to the thread in the report forum, so it's fine. For the love of God though, don't do a "WHY HASN'T THIS BEEN DEALT WITH YET". People actually do that and it's really obnoxious.
oh hey tube I remember a post you answered about actual forum games, you mentioned who should actually be approached for that sort of stuff but now I can't find it or remember who you said:
if we were for instance wanting to run a phalla or whatever, who should we ask?
oh hey tube I remember a post you answered about actual forum games, you mentioned who should actually be approached for that sort of stuff but now I can't find it or remember who you said:
if we were for instance wanting to run a phalla or whatever, who should we ask?
I think @brogey is the man to talk to, but there may be a moratorium on Phalla in SE. I confess I'm not completely sure about policy on that.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Brogey said no Phalla in SE.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
so tube as this thread nears its end what have your takeaways been from it
Oy, that's a good question. I'm not sure I know myself yet. We'll be unpacking it in the mod forum for sure.
I think one of my main takeaways has been that I should be clearer about why we're doing things. Seeing people full on blank a troll in the Steam thread and increased report rates showed me that once people new the reason why we ask them to do some things, they were more than happy to help out. I assume that my genius is too self-evident.
There are some people that didn't ask questions who I was expecting to. I don't think that's a good sign.
There are a lot of smaller problems that we've been letting run away with us, so I was reminded to get on that.
I had a meeting with product dev at Vanilla about some improvements people asked for. Hopefully I can get that train running fairly quickly.
We're going to be restructuring some things soon, partly based on feedback from here.
There were other things, but a side effect of the thread taking shape over a week means that it's hard to keep my thoughts organised. I'll be reading back on it.
What do you think my takeaways should have been?
You meant me. I was the one you wanted to ask questions.
My questions were asked and answered. You're only irritated you didn't have the satisfaction of telling me directly.
But first, your take away from this should be that your one glaring blind spot is that you don't realize that you're a cishet white male. You know nothing about any marginalized experience other than what you've heard second hand. You'll never know, no matter how many trans friends you think you have. You haven't even the self awareness to get around your "if they don't like it they can leave"attitude to ask yourself "gee it seems like this one demographic is getting really shitty and leaving. I wonder what's up with that?"
But this is all beside the point. You said it yourself: if you don't like it you can leave. By extension, if trans people don't like how they're treated here, they can leave. You're obviously not willing to make this place more inclusive and I'm sorry I didn't realize that earlier.
So, you're in charge, you have all the power. it's the default condition, but the cishet white male is so fragile it needs the validation anyway: congrats. You've won. I'll shut my fat minority mouth and get back in line. Thanks for condescending to entertain me with this thread.
Tube, if there was something you'd like to see forumers be doing more of, what would that be?
From a behavioural point of view, ignoring douchebags and using the report button.
From a general community view, contributing more and better stuff. You really get out of communities what you put in
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Jesus Christ, Metal.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I think that, having reported something, if you saw some kind of evidence of a mod response (or lack thereof, where appropriate), that would be very useful
because it would let you know where you have reported something for the right reasons, and where it wasn't necessary
Knowing where the boundaries lie is a good thing. I'm never quite sure if I should report something (so I rarely do it), the fact that I don't know what the response was, or even if there was one, does make me a bit more tentative when it comes to that whole area.
I think that, having reported something, if you saw some kind of evidence of a mod response (or lack thereof, where appropriate), that would be very useful
because it would let you know where you have reported something for the right reasons, and where it wasn't necessary
Knowing where the boundaries lie is a good thing. I'm never quite sure if I should report something (so I rarely do it), the fact that I don't know what the response was, or even if there was one, does make me a bit more tentative when it comes to that whole area.
Right now there's a bug wherein users cannot see that a given post that has been infracted has been infracted. It used to be the case that users could see that, and it's intended to still be the case, but the functionality is broken.
On the other side of that, people who regularly report the same type of behavior over and over that should not be reported are eventually told privately to not report that specific thing so much. The general rule is to report things that seem over the line, because with a few exceptions it's always better to have more reports than fewer reports. Hopefully having the bug with infractions showing up will help with this whole issue.
I think that, having reported something, if you saw some kind of evidence of a mod response (or lack thereof, where appropriate), that would be very useful
because it would let you know where you have reported something for the right reasons, and where it wasn't necessary
Knowing where the boundaries lie is a good thing. I'm never quite sure if I should report something (so I rarely do it), the fact that I don't know what the response was, or even if there was one, does make me a bit more tentative when it comes to that whole area.
It's tough. Firstly, we can't easily make changes to the report function. That has to go through the developers. It's the disadvantage of going cloud over open source (the advantage is that the forum works). The upshot is, even if we wanted to change it we couldn't necessarily do so.
Secondly, it's tough to tell whether giving more feedback would be more or less encouraging for people. There's a lot of back and forth on opinion. Right now it's an invisible system. If a member has their post reported, they never know unless a mod steps in. It's fire and forget. That makes it very easy for it to feel "anonymous", and as though there's no risk to reporting, but it also causes the problem you mentioned with a lack of feedback.
Generally, assume that reports are always welcome. The only time they ever backfire is if you're super rude, and if you're the kind of person who's worried about reporting because you might inconvenience us you're probably not the kind of person who barks orders in reports.
I think that, having reported something, if you saw some kind of evidence of a mod response (or lack thereof, where appropriate), that would be very useful
because it would let you know where you have reported something for the right reasons, and where it wasn't necessary
Knowing where the boundaries lie is a good thing. I'm never quite sure if I should report something (so I rarely do it), the fact that I don't know what the response was, or even if there was one, does make me a bit more tentative when it comes to that whole area.
It's tough. Firstly, we can't easily make changes to the report function. That has to go through the developers. It's the disadvantage of going cloud over open source (the advantage is that the forum works). The upshot is, even if we wanted to change it we couldn't necessarily do so.
Secondly, it's tough to tell whether giving more feedback would be more or less encouraging for people. There's a lot of back and forth on opinion. Right now it's an invisible system. If a member has their post reported, they never know unless a mod steps in. It's fire and forget. That makes it very easy for it to feel "anonymous", and as though there's no risk to reporting, but it also causes the problem you mentioned with a lack of feedback.
Generally, assume that reports are always welcome. The only time they ever backfire is if you're super rude, and if you're the kind of person who's worried about reporting because you might inconvenience us you're probably not the kind of person who barks orders in reports.
I think not knowing who has reported you, or even if you have been reported, is definitely a good thing. People should be able to report in confidence. As zerzhul says, if there is a bug that stops people seeing what posts were infracted, then that does mean that people don't really learn about those boundaries (and for a lot of people here, that's how they will be learning where the line is, I think).
There are non-post situations where one might report something too, as you know. Those situations would not be resolved by the solution of the bug, as there's no post to look at and see the "infracted" note on. Those are edge cases but they do happen on rare occasion. I dunno, I just would raise that when people report things, if they don't know what has been done (or anything) then it can feel a bit like you're just in the dark on the whole deal.
Not that posters have the right to know what the results of their reports are, of course. I mean, I guess it just comes down to what promotes good and constructive behaviour in the community!
Since people were using this thread to talk about vanilla features I wanted to bring this up here:
I don't know if this is a vanilla-wide thing that would be useful elsewhere, but here, viewed in mobile safari, if you highlight text that includes the first line then you can't use the formatting buttons because that apple menu gets in the way. If there was some space between those formatting buttons and the text entry, or the buttons were below the box, it wouldn't be an issue.
Baidol Voprostein AvrahamThetherooTaya Zerofill EffefCrimson KingLalaboxMortal SkyASimPerson Sal Wiet Theidar Tynic Speed Racer Neotoma Goatmon ==>Larlar Munkus Beaver Day of the Bear miscellaneousinsanitySkull Man Delzhand Caulk Bite 6Somestickguy
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
edited July 2015
To that point, would like to note that things are not always handled by infraction a anyway. Sometimes I will shoot someone who's been reported a PM instead of infracting, especially if they're very new. Other users wouldn't see that anyway, but it doesn't mean I'm not glad it was reported.
Edit: okay, well, to solar's point.
ceres on
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
I think it's an interesting thing to bring up, and I'm glad to discuss it. I feel bad because realistically whatever conclusion is reached I don't think I'll be able to have changed made to how reporting works.
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
I think that, having reported something, if you saw some kind of evidence of a mod response (or lack thereof, where appropriate), that would be very useful
because it would let you know where you have reported something for the right reasons, and where it wasn't necessary
Knowing where the boundaries lie is a good thing. I'm never quite sure if I should report something (so I rarely do it), the fact that I don't know what the response was, or even if there was one, does make me a bit more tentative when it comes to that whole area.
It's tough. Firstly, we can't easily make changes to the report function. That has to go through the developers. It's the disadvantage of going cloud over open source (the advantage is that the forum works). The upshot is, even if we wanted to change it we couldn't necessarily do so.
Secondly, it's tough to tell whether giving more feedback would be more or less encouraging for people. There's a lot of back and forth on opinion. Right now it's an invisible system. If a member has their post reported, they never know unless a mod steps in. It's fire and forget. That makes it very easy for it to feel "anonymous", and as though there's no risk to reporting, but it also causes the problem you mentioned with a lack of feedback.
Generally, assume that reports are always welcome. The only time they ever backfire is if you're super rude, and if you're the kind of person who's worried about reporting because you might inconvenience us you're probably not the kind of person who barks orders in reports.
I think not knowing who has reported you, or even if you have been reported, is definitely a good thing. People should be able to report in confidence. As zerzhul says, if there is a bug that stops people seeing what posts were infracted, then that does mean that people don't really learn about those boundaries (and for a lot of people here, that's how they will be learning where the line is, I think).
There are non-post situations where one might report something too, as you know. Those situations would not be resolved by the solution of the bug, as there's no post to look at and see the "infracted" note on. Those are edge cases but they do happen on rare occasion. I dunno, I just would raise that when people report things, if they don't know what has been done (or anything) then it can feel a bit like you're just in the dark on the whole deal.
Not that posters have the right to know what the results of their reports are, of course. I mean, I guess it just comes down to what promotes good and constructive behaviour in the community!
Yeah.
It's good both because people should be able to report things without worrying about retribution or pissing people off or whatever, but also because you don't want people to feel attacked or like they need to change their behavior just because someone who disagreed with them filed a report. On both sides, it's way better for everything to be dealt with via a third part (the mods).
I think it's an interesting thing to bring up, and I'm glad to discuss it. I feel bad because realistically whatever conclusion is reached I don't think I'll be able to have changed made to how reporting works.
On the one hand, I feel like a message saying "yep, we actioned this" or "this wasn't really an appropriate thing to report" would be great
On the other hand that's obviously just not feasible given the sheer work requirements
So yeah I see what you mean, the ideal situation for good feedback is pretty unworkable on a forum wide scale, and the technical complexities of the system do provide an additional barrier. But it's good to know that it's something you guys do consider, even if it's with a sense of not having a solution at this stage.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Eh, as a former mod and now user I can say that I thought we were being clear and transparent but now I am seeing a lot of questions like "Wait, who was infracted? Why? A person got banned? Since when?" etc. Just a little confusion on the proactive stuff, the hard modding actions. The soft modding actions can be missed, but are much clearer.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I thought the question/discussion coming out of the trans thread was about thread ownership and what can be said slash reported in threads, which seemed to be discussed pretty well? Like, not self moderating threads but feeling very free and encouraged to report anything, and encouraging dialogue without being prescriptive.
That's what I took away, anyway.
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Goose!That's me, honeyShow me the way home, honeyRegistered Userregular
so tube as this thread nears its end what have your takeaways been from it
Oy, that's a good question. I'm not sure I know myself yet. We'll be unpacking it in the mod forum for sure.
I think one of my main takeaways has been that I should be clearer about why we're doing things. Seeing people full on blank a troll in the Steam thread and increased report rates showed me that once people new the reason why we ask them to do some things, they were more than happy to help out. I assume that my genius is too self-evident.
There are some people that didn't ask questions who I was expecting to. I don't think that's a good sign.
There are a lot of smaller problems that we've been letting run away with us, so I was reminded to get on that.
I had a meeting with product dev at Vanilla about some improvements people asked for. Hopefully I can get that train running fairly quickly.
We're going to be restructuring some things soon, partly based on feedback from here.
There were other things, but a side effect of the thread taking shape over a week means that it's hard to keep my thoughts organised. I'll be reading back on it.
What do you think my takeaways should have been?
Was I one of the people you expected to ask a question, and does this fulfill that?
EDIT: I was just being silly, and had just quoted this without finishing the thread. So, my bad.
Oh wow the Rob Liefeld skin for Sonya...I think I have to buy it.
Banned.
Raijin Quickfoot on
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
One of my biggest takeaways from this thread, personally - I need to emphasize that I'm only speaking for myself here - is that I was and am struck by the number of people who seem to view the report feature as a "call 911, get this person in trouble" button, where it's very very serious and never to be undertaken lightly. This seems to manifest in two different but related ways: we had people talk about not wanting to narc or tattle (because it's the Get Someone in Trouble Button, and I don't want to get that person in trouble - I like them!) and people feeling upset or confused when they don't see a visible sign of action having been taken (because it's the Get Someone in Trouble Button, and I pressed it and nothing happened, what gives?!)
But this community relies on its users; the report feature is one of the ways we take the temperature of the boards. It's not about getting people in trouble so much as it is about letting us know about situations that are brewing, threads that might be in need of a course correction, and so forth - it doesn't always just have to be "this guy called this other guy a shitfucker."
I sometimes idly wonder if there could be an interface solution to this. Turn "report" into "watch this" or something like that? I don't know. "Report" already sounds pretty innocuous to my ears, but maybe to other people it doesn't? Who knows. In the meantime, while "hey, please report more stuff, it would really help me out" is a conversation I've had privately with forumers in the past and will probably continue to have in the future, I do hope this thread and the discussion of the process has maybe helped kind of dispel some of the cobwebs around the concept of reporting and given people a better sense of its role.
I will admit, I'm sometimes loathe to press the report button because even if there are geese about, I enjoy the not-geese talk and don't want the whole thread locked because of their behavior.
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
One of my biggest takeaways from this thread, personally - I need to emphasize that I'm only speaking for myself here - is that I was and am struck by the number of people who seem to view the report feature as a "call 911, get this person in trouble" button, where it's very very serious and never to be undertaken lightly. This seems to manifest in two different but related ways: we had people talk about not wanting to narc or tattle (because it's the Get Someone in Trouble Button, and I don't want to get that person in trouble - I like them!) and people feeling upset or confused when they don't see a visible sign of action having been taken (because it's the Get Someone in Trouble Button, and I pressed it and nothing happened, what gives?!)
But this community relies on its users; the report feature is one of the ways we take the temperature of the boards. It's not about getting people in trouble so much as it is about letting us know about situations that are brewing, threads that might be in need of a course correction, and so forth - it doesn't always just have to be "this guy called this other guy a shitfucker."
I sometimes idly wonder if there could be an interface solution to this. Turn "report" into "watch this" or something like that? I don't know. "Report" already sounds pretty innocuous to my ears, but maybe to other people it doesn't? Who knows. In the meantime, while "hey, please report more stuff, it would really help me out" is a conversation I've had privately with forumers in the past and will probably continue to have in the future, I do hope this thread and the discussion of the process has maybe helped kind of dispel some of the cobwebs around the concept of reporting and given people a better sense of its role.
The button is already "flag" (though you click it and the only sub option is "report")
If anything, it mostly just comes up as "report" in conversations.
so tube as this thread nears its end what have your takeaways been from it
Oy, that's a good question. I'm not sure I know myself yet. We'll be unpacking it in the mod forum for sure.
I think one of my main takeaways has been that I should be clearer about why we're doing things. Seeing people full on blank a troll in the Steam thread and increased report rates showed me that once people new the reason why we ask them to do some things, they were more than happy to help out. I assume that my genius is too self-evident.
There are some people that didn't ask questions who I was expecting to. I don't think that's a good sign.
There are a lot of smaller problems that we've been letting run away with us, so I was reminded to get on that.
I had a meeting with product dev at Vanilla about some improvements people asked for. Hopefully I can get that train running fairly quickly.
We're going to be restructuring some things soon, partly based on feedback from here.
There were other things, but a side effect of the thread taking shape over a week means that it's hard to keep my thoughts organised. I'll be reading back on it.
What do you think my takeaways should have been?
Was I one of the people you expected to ask a question, and does this fulfill that?
EDIT: I was just being silly, and had just quoted this without finishing the thread. So, my bad.
There wasn't any one particular person. I'm happy with the amount of questions and the variety of them, but I'm sure there are angles that weren't covered.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
One of my biggest takeaways from this thread, personally - I need to emphasize that I'm only speaking for myself here - is that I was and am struck by the number of people who seem to view the report feature as a "call 911, get this person in trouble" button, where it's very very serious and never to be undertaken lightly. This seems to manifest in two different but related ways: we had people talk about not wanting to narc or tattle (because it's the Get Someone in Trouble Button, and I don't want to get that person in trouble - I like them!) and people feeling upset or confused when they don't see a visible sign of action having been taken (because it's the Get Someone in Trouble Button, and I pressed it and nothing happened, what gives?!)
But this community relies on its users; the report feature is one of the ways we take the temperature of the boards. It's not about getting people in trouble so much as it is about letting us know about situations that are brewing, threads that might be in need of a course correction, and so forth - it doesn't always just have to be "this guy called this other guy a shitfucker."
I sometimes idly wonder if there could be an interface solution to this. Turn "report" into "watch this" or something like that? I don't know. "Report" already sounds pretty innocuous to my ears, but maybe to other people it doesn't? Who knows. In the meantime, while "hey, please report more stuff, it would really help me out" is a conversation I've had privately with forumers in the past and will probably continue to have in the future, I do hope this thread and the discussion of the process has maybe helped kind of dispel some of the cobwebs around the concept of reporting and given people a better sense of its role.
Yeah, "Report" does not sound innocuous to me at all. It basically means "This dude/ette needs to be infracted/banned".
It would probably help to have a button that says "Mods!" or "Mod Action" which then gives us a pop-up for different choices like: "Keep an eye on this.", "This person needs to be talked to", "Infract this user!", "911!"
I doubt its as easy as that though and now that I've read this thread and understand the purpose of the report button, I can see myself using it more often.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
You could always have a 'minor report' and 'major report' option to encourage people to use the system.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Goose!That's me, honeyShow me the way home, honeyRegistered Userregular
But have them literally be the exact same thing and just be a way to get more people to use it.
One of my biggest takeaways from this thread, personally - I need to emphasize that I'm only speaking for myself here - is that I was and am struck by the number of people who seem to view the report feature as a "call 911, get this person in trouble" button, where it's very very serious and never to be undertaken lightly. This seems to manifest in two different but related ways: we had people talk about not wanting to narc or tattle (because it's the Get Someone in Trouble Button, and I don't want to get that person in trouble - I like them!) and people feeling upset or confused when they don't see a visible sign of action having been taken (because it's the Get Someone in Trouble Button, and I pressed it and nothing happened, what gives?!)
But this community relies on its users; the report feature is one of the ways we take the temperature of the boards. It's not about getting people in trouble so much as it is about letting us know about situations that are brewing, threads that might be in need of a course correction, and so forth - it doesn't always just have to be "this guy called this other guy a shitfucker."
I sometimes idly wonder if there could be an interface solution to this. Turn "report" into "watch this" or something like that? I don't know. "Report" already sounds pretty innocuous to my ears, but maybe to other people it doesn't? Who knows. In the meantime, while "hey, please report more stuff, it would really help me out" is a conversation I've had privately with forumers in the past and will probably continue to have in the future, I do hope this thread and the discussion of the process has maybe helped kind of dispel some of the cobwebs around the concept of reporting and given people a better sense of its role.
Yeah, "Report" does not sound innocuous to me at all. It basically means "This dude/ette needs to be infracted/banned".
It would probably help to have a button that says "Mods!" or "Mod Action" which then gives us a pop-up for different choices like: "Keep an eye on this.", "This person needs to be talked to", "Infract this user!", "911!"
I doubt its as easy as that though and now that I've read this thread and understand the purpose of the report button, I can see myself using it more often.
It could be changed to "report concerns," or something, but I really don't think the ominousness of the word "report" are to blame for its inconsistent use. There are subforum cultural differences, of course, but I think overall the issue is a combination of bystander effect (someone else has gotten it, I'm sure), treating it like a big decision (do I really want to actually report this? It'll create work for mods and I probably wouldn't act on it if I were a mod, so why bother), and just plain not thinking of it. I know when I see a post that is questionable, I usually don't think to report it - I think "man, that guy is kind of a jerk" and click to another thread because why would I spend my precious time reading jerk posts by jerks? I'm gonna try to get better at combatting at least that last one, but it's hard to make a habit of thinking things through when you habitually forget something is even an option. I pretty much only remember there is a flag button when I see a spam thread pop up.
from my perspective it doesn't really matter what you call it. it gets a mod's eyes on it and one possible outcome is an infraction
and I sort of feel like if I want to interject my feelings on what a mod should do about it, the reason field is already sufficient
really wish the the infraction banner on posts still showed up though, but that's been talked about multiple times in this thread, and how we'd all like that back, so I guess there's nothing more to say about that
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
One of my biggest takeaways from this thread, personally - I need to emphasize that I'm only speaking for myself here - is that I was and am struck by the number of people who seem to view the report feature as a "call 911, get this person in trouble" button, where it's very very serious and never to be undertaken lightly. This seems to manifest in two different but related ways: we had people talk about not wanting to narc or tattle (because it's the Get Someone in Trouble Button, and I don't want to get that person in trouble - I like them!) and people feeling upset or confused when they don't see a visible sign of action having been taken (because it's the Get Someone in Trouble Button, and I pressed it and nothing happened, what gives?!)
But this community relies on its users; the report feature is one of the ways we take the temperature of the boards. It's not about getting people in trouble so much as it is about letting us know about situations that are brewing, threads that might be in need of a course correction, and so forth - it doesn't always just have to be "this guy called this other guy a shitfucker."
I sometimes idly wonder if there could be an interface solution to this. Turn "report" into "watch this" or something like that? I don't know. "Report" already sounds pretty innocuous to my ears, but maybe to other people it doesn't? Who knows. In the meantime, while "hey, please report more stuff, it would really help me out" is a conversation I've had privately with forumers in the past and will probably continue to have in the future, I do hope this thread and the discussion of the process has maybe helped kind of dispel some of the cobwebs around the concept of reporting and given people a better sense of its role.
Yeah I do sometimes feel like I am narc-ing on someone if I report them. I want things to turn out pleasantly and for people to reach their own friendly acceptance of each other, so reporting seems like saying "this person is beyond being able to reasonably back down and apologise (or whatever" and therefore it feels like a tough response.
If I can report to say "I don't think this person is technically doing anything wrong, but I do think they are getting agitated and that this will not end well" then I would report more often, in fact, I'd probably report posts due to some sympathy for the poster getting dogpiled or whatever ("this person is getting upset in this post, and I think they're being dogpiled" or summat)
Does that seem like a reasonable use of the report function?
Different options would give the impression that we're going to treat a report other than something we'll look at. We'd be setting up false expectations that we'd inevitably disappoint.
Posts
I'm a fucking phenom at Blood Money, and could probably go over some interesting stuff. Absolution was pretty terrible and it could be interesting to say why. The original and contracts are probably just a little vanilla.
Like if you report, then see later posts, and want to add to your initial report instead of spamming the report board with new ones.
It'll add a comment to the thread in the report forum, so it's fine. For the love of God though, don't do a "WHY HASN'T THIS BEEN DEALT WITH YET". People actually do that and it's really obnoxious.
Yeah, I think that just ends up as another post on the report.
if we were for instance wanting to run a phalla or whatever, who should we ask?
I think @brogey is the man to talk to, but there may be a moratorium on Phalla in SE. I confess I'm not completely sure about policy on that.
steam | Dokkan: 868846562
You meant me. I was the one you wanted to ask questions.
My questions were asked and answered. You're only irritated you didn't have the satisfaction of telling me directly.
But first, your take away from this should be that your one glaring blind spot is that you don't realize that you're a cishet white male. You know nothing about any marginalized experience other than what you've heard second hand. You'll never know, no matter how many trans friends you think you have. You haven't even the self awareness to get around your "if they don't like it they can leave"attitude to ask yourself "gee it seems like this one demographic is getting really shitty and leaving. I wonder what's up with that?"
But this is all beside the point. You said it yourself: if you don't like it you can leave. By extension, if trans people don't like how they're treated here, they can leave. You're obviously not willing to make this place more inclusive and I'm sorry I didn't realize that earlier.
So, you're in charge, you have all the power. it's the default condition, but the cishet white male is so fragile it needs the validation anyway: congrats. You've won. I'll shut my fat minority mouth and get back in line. Thanks for condescending to entertain me with this thread.
From a behavioural point of view, ignoring douchebags and using the report button.
From a general community view, contributing more and better stuff. You really get out of communities what you put in
because it would let you know where you have reported something for the right reasons, and where it wasn't necessary
Knowing where the boundaries lie is a good thing. I'm never quite sure if I should report something (so I rarely do it), the fact that I don't know what the response was, or even if there was one, does make me a bit more tentative when it comes to that whole area.
On the other side of that, people who regularly report the same type of behavior over and over that should not be reported are eventually told privately to not report that specific thing so much. The general rule is to report things that seem over the line, because with a few exceptions it's always better to have more reports than fewer reports. Hopefully having the bug with infractions showing up will help with this whole issue.
It's tough. Firstly, we can't easily make changes to the report function. That has to go through the developers. It's the disadvantage of going cloud over open source (the advantage is that the forum works). The upshot is, even if we wanted to change it we couldn't necessarily do so.
Secondly, it's tough to tell whether giving more feedback would be more or less encouraging for people. There's a lot of back and forth on opinion. Right now it's an invisible system. If a member has their post reported, they never know unless a mod steps in. It's fire and forget. That makes it very easy for it to feel "anonymous", and as though there's no risk to reporting, but it also causes the problem you mentioned with a lack of feedback.
Generally, assume that reports are always welcome. The only time they ever backfire is if you're super rude, and if you're the kind of person who's worried about reporting because you might inconvenience us you're probably not the kind of person who barks orders in reports.
I think not knowing who has reported you, or even if you have been reported, is definitely a good thing. People should be able to report in confidence. As zerzhul says, if there is a bug that stops people seeing what posts were infracted, then that does mean that people don't really learn about those boundaries (and for a lot of people here, that's how they will be learning where the line is, I think).
There are non-post situations where one might report something too, as you know. Those situations would not be resolved by the solution of the bug, as there's no post to look at and see the "infracted" note on. Those are edge cases but they do happen on rare occasion. I dunno, I just would raise that when people report things, if they don't know what has been done (or anything) then it can feel a bit like you're just in the dark on the whole deal.
Not that posters have the right to know what the results of their reports are, of course. I mean, I guess it just comes down to what promotes good and constructive behaviour in the community!
Edit: okay, well, to solar's point.
Yeah.
It's good both because people should be able to report things without worrying about retribution or pissing people off or whatever, but also because you don't want people to feel attacked or like they need to change their behavior just because someone who disagreed with them filed a report. On both sides, it's way better for everything to be dealt with via a third part (the mods).
On the one hand, I feel like a message saying "yep, we actioned this" or "this wasn't really an appropriate thing to report" would be great
On the other hand that's obviously just not feasible given the sheer work requirements
So yeah I see what you mean, the ideal situation for good feedback is pretty unworkable on a forum wide scale, and the technical complexities of the system do provide an additional barrier. But it's good to know that it's something you guys do consider, even if it's with a sense of not having a solution at this stage.
That's what I took away, anyway.
Was I one of the people you expected to ask a question, and does this fulfill that?
EDIT: I was just being silly, and had just quoted this without finishing the thread. So, my bad.
Banned.
But this community relies on its users; the report feature is one of the ways we take the temperature of the boards. It's not about getting people in trouble so much as it is about letting us know about situations that are brewing, threads that might be in need of a course correction, and so forth - it doesn't always just have to be "this guy called this other guy a shitfucker."
I sometimes idly wonder if there could be an interface solution to this. Turn "report" into "watch this" or something like that? I don't know. "Report" already sounds pretty innocuous to my ears, but maybe to other people it doesn't? Who knows. In the meantime, while "hey, please report more stuff, it would really help me out" is a conversation I've had privately with forumers in the past and will probably continue to have in the future, I do hope this thread and the discussion of the process has maybe helped kind of dispel some of the cobwebs around the concept of reporting and given people a better sense of its role.
The button is already "flag" (though you click it and the only sub option is "report")
If anything, it mostly just comes up as "report" in conversations.
There wasn't any one particular person. I'm happy with the amount of questions and the variety of them, but I'm sure there are angles that weren't covered.
Yeah, "Report" does not sound innocuous to me at all. It basically means "This dude/ette needs to be infracted/banned".
It would probably help to have a button that says "Mods!" or "Mod Action" which then gives us a pop-up for different choices like: "Keep an eye on this.", "This person needs to be talked to", "Infract this user!", "911!"
I doubt its as easy as that though and now that I've read this thread and understand the purpose of the report button, I can see myself using it more often.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
It could be changed to "report concerns," or something, but I really don't think the ominousness of the word "report" are to blame for its inconsistent use. There are subforum cultural differences, of course, but I think overall the issue is a combination of bystander effect (someone else has gotten it, I'm sure), treating it like a big decision (do I really want to actually report this? It'll create work for mods and I probably wouldn't act on it if I were a mod, so why bother), and just plain not thinking of it. I know when I see a post that is questionable, I usually don't think to report it - I think "man, that guy is kind of a jerk" and click to another thread because why would I spend my precious time reading jerk posts by jerks? I'm gonna try to get better at combatting at least that last one, but it's hard to make a habit of thinking things through when you habitually forget something is even an option. I pretty much only remember there is a flag button when I see a spam thread pop up.
and I sort of feel like if I want to interject my feelings on what a mod should do about it, the reason field is already sufficient
really wish the the infraction banner on posts still showed up though, but that's been talked about multiple times in this thread, and how we'd all like that back, so I guess there's nothing more to say about that
Yeah I do sometimes feel like I am narc-ing on someone if I report them. I want things to turn out pleasantly and for people to reach their own friendly acceptance of each other, so reporting seems like saying "this person is beyond being able to reasonably back down and apologise (or whatever" and therefore it feels like a tough response.
If I can report to say "I don't think this person is technically doing anything wrong, but I do think they are getting agitated and that this will not end well" then I would report more often, in fact, I'd probably report posts due to some sympathy for the poster getting dogpiled or whatever ("this person is getting upset in this post, and I think they're being dogpiled" or summat)
Does that seem like a reasonable use of the report function?