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[Book] Thread 20XXAD

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    darleysam wrote: »
    Reading Adam Roberts' reviews of them was enough to convince me to never even consider approaching one of those books.

    His reviews of the WoT series are amazing.

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    jakobaggerjakobagger LO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTORED Registered User regular
    I guess not being unrelentingly binary in my judgements make me a pretty bad nerd, but I found a good amount of enjoyment from the Endymion books as well, even though I would agree they're very far from Hyperion in quality. It's just that Hyperion is almost perfect, so a book can be less good without being the war crimes levels of terrible that is later Simmons.

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    Solomaxwell6Solomaxwell6 Registered User regular
    zakkiel wrote: »
    I've been finally reading Wheel of Time, and it's been kind of disappointing. Currently getting close to halfway through the fourth book.

    It's much more generic epic fantasy then I expected. From all the praise I've heard, I was expecting something more like ASoIaF, but so far Wheel of Time's only distinction from other genre fiction seems to be its length.

    Someone praised WoT to you? Who? Who could hate you this much? For the love of God, stop now. You have already passed the high-water mark. You have no idea of the depths of tedium and repetition that await you in the next 10,000 pages. There is one entire book that consists of recounting one day - a single day - from the previous book, except from the PoV of every other character in the series.

    Do not be like me, trapped in a period of adolescent weakness, thereafter doomed to read the whole shitty thing because of a sunk-cost fallacy. I am a broken man. There is still hope for you.

    Oh no, a girl is talking to me. Rand would know what to do in this situation, he's so good with girls, Perrin thought to himself.
    Gosh golly gee, I have a half naked lady in my room. Perrin would know what to do in this situation, he's so good with girls, Rand thought to himself.

    Nynaeve tugged on her braid. "Men are all the dumbest people in the world. Women are the best, we are so smart."

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    shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    zakkiel wrote: »
    I've been finally reading Wheel of Time, and it's been kind of disappointing. Currently getting close to halfway through the fourth book.

    It's much more generic epic fantasy then I expected. From all the praise I've heard, I was expecting something more like ASoIaF, but so far Wheel of Time's only distinction from other genre fiction seems to be its length.

    Someone praised WoT to you? Who? Who could hate you this much? For the love of God, stop now. You have already passed the high-water mark. You have no idea of the depths of tedium and repetition that await you in the next 10,000 pages. There is one entire book that consists of recounting one day - a single day - from the previous book, except from the PoV of every other character in the series.

    Do not be like me, trapped in a period of adolescent weakness, thereafter doomed to read the whole shitty thing because of a sunk-cost fallacy. I am a broken man. There is still hope for you.

    Oh no, a girl is talking to me. Rand would know what to do in this situation, he's so good with girls, Perrin thought to himself.
    Gosh golly gee, I have a half naked lady in my room. Perrin would know what to do in this situation, he's so good with girls, Rand thought to himself.

    Nynaeve tugged on her braid. "Men are all the dumbest people in the world. Women are the best, we are so smart."
    Wasn't it two weeks, not 1 day? Still, yes, it was a bit of an annoying book.

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    Hyperion really was excellent. The sequel to Hyperion is middling. I have only heard terrible warnings of the other books

    Just like the gypsy woman said!

    Hyperion's weird in that the sequel isn't actually a sequel, but the back half of the first book split up for publishing purposes. There's a definite tonal shift after the split, which adds to the oddness.

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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    Hyperion really was excellent. The sequel to Hyperion is middling. I have only heard terrible warnings of the other books

    Just like the gypsy woman said!

    Hyperion's weird in that the sequel isn't actually a sequel, but the back half of the first book split up for publishing purposes. There's a definite tonal shift after the split, which adds to the oddness.

    well it turns from Sci-Fi Canterbury tales to a more linear narrative

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    zakkiel wrote: »
    I've been finally reading Wheel of Time, and it's been kind of disappointing. Currently getting close to halfway through the fourth book.

    It's much more generic epic fantasy then I expected. From all the praise I've heard, I was expecting something more like ASoIaF, but so far Wheel of Time's only distinction from other genre fiction seems to be its length.

    Someone praised WoT to you? Who? Who could hate you this much? For the love of God, stop now. You have already passed the high-water mark. You have no idea of the depths of tedium and repetition that await you in the next 10,000 pages. There is one entire book that consists of recounting one day - a single day - from the previous book, except from the PoV of every other character in the series.

    Do not be like me, trapped in a period of adolescent weakness, thereafter doomed to read the whole shitty thing because of a sunk-cost fallacy. I am a broken man. There is still hope for you.

    Nah, this is bullshit. WoT is a well done series. It's just not like ASOIAF. If that's what you were expecting, someone lied to you. They are different kinds of books.

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    knitdanknitdan In ur base Killin ur guysRegistered User regular
    I've been reading The Wise Man's Fear again and it still amazes me how this series is able to swing from the excitement of learning, to the joy of success, to the agony of loss in the span of a few chapters.

    Plus I've begun to suspect horrific fates await some of these characters in the next book and it makes me sad.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    Got an email that my copy of the Unnoticeables will arrive on the 4th, instead of way later in the month, so I'm pretty happy about that.

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    zakkielzakkiel Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    Reading Adam Roberts' reviews of them was enough to convince me to never even consider approaching one of those books.

    His reviews of the WoT series are amazing.

    Apparently he removed them all to sell a book, so I guess I will never read them.

    Account not recoverable. So long.
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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited July 2015
    Have an excerpt.
    ...stylistically it’s the same hideous jumble, the same self-parodic bloat. Jordan is a writer who writes ‘this fire was not at all small, and the room seemed not far short of hot, a welcome heat that soaked into the flesh and banished shivers’ [343] because he is constitutionally allergic to the phrasing ‘a large fire warmed the room.’ He thinks the former sentence is more precise and therefore evocative. He’s wrong. That's not precision, it’s a finicky fussing textual aspergers, a style that can see nothing but details (and, more to the point, nothing but a certain very limited palate of details – colours of clothing, speed of movement, types of food, gradations of heat and cold—never the telling details great writers master). It is a style wholly incapable of illuminating penetration or evocation.

    I also like his take on someone's review that named one of the books 'stunning', declaring that this was surely inaccurate, unless the reviewer meant 'stunning' in the 'abattoir bolt-gun sense'.

    If the book is his collection of reviews from Punkadiddle, it's probably worth picking up. You could certainly spend your money on a worse book.

    Bogart on
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    shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    Nothing like pretending your opinion is worth more than someone else's opinion when it comes to a book to make yourself feel better.

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    shadowane wrote: »
    Nothing like pretending your opinion is worth more than someone else's opinion when it comes to a book to make yourself feel better.

    Plainly, that is exactly what he was doing. How low his self-esteem must be, to try to make himself feel better by disagreeing with someone on the internet and do so in an amusing fashion. How worthless an enterprise! Although I guess since he's now collected those opinions into a book and is selling it for money I guess not entirely worthless after all.

    He quotes someone else's review at length, not least because the review claims the WoT book is fantastic and brilliant and also simultaneously full of flaws, slow-moving, and a book in which not much happens, in disbelief that someone can give a glowing review to something they admit isn't actually very good.

    And yes, one opinion about a book can definitely be worth a lot more than another, if that opinion happens to be intelligent, well-argued and amusing. Nothing is more tedious than the insistence it's all relative and everyone's opinion carries equal weight.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Have an excerpt.
    ...stylistically it’s the same hideous jumble, the same self-parodic bloat. Jordan is a writer who writes ‘this fire was not at all small, and the room seemed not far short of hot, a welcome heat that soaked into the flesh and banished shivers’ [343] because he is constitutionally allergic to the phrasing ‘a large fire warmed the room.’ He thinks the former sentence is more precise and therefore evocative. He’s wrong. That's not precision, it’s a finicky fussing textual aspergers, a style that can see nothing but details (and, more to the point, nothing but a certain very limited palate of details – colours of clothing, speed of movement, types of food, gradations of heat and cold—never the telling details great writers master). It is a style wholly incapable of illuminating penetration or evocation.

    I also like his take on someone's review that named one of the books 'stunning', declaring that this was surely inaccurate, unless the reviewer meant 'stunning' in the 'abattoir bolt-gun sense'.

    If the book is his collection of reviews from Punkadiddle, it's probably worth picking up. You could certainly spend your money on a worse book.

    That does not seem a review worth reading.

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    The one by Roberts, or the other one I mentioned? Because the WoT reviews by Roberts are tremendous.

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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Now I want to read them. It feels like a way to recover the sunk cost of reading the first 4 or so WoT books (Look, I was broke as hell, the previous tenant left them behind DONT JUDGE ME)

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    The one by Roberts, or the other one I mentioned? Because the WoT reviews by Roberts are tremendous.

    The quote you posted does not seem in the least tremendous. It seems like looking for something in whinge about.

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    MahnmutMahnmut Registered User regular
    Ancillary Justice was real good. One Esk's perspective was extremely compelling -- I cared more about
    the ship's personal tragedy and traumas than I did about the space opera business its plot moved through.
    Sometimes I was ambivalent about what seemed like too-strong echoes of genre staples like Dread Empire's Fall and The Left Hand of Darkness? but I think the book stands strong as its own exercise.

    Steam/LoL: Jericho89
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    EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    Been reading a ton of poetry recently: I really liked Saul Williams' She. He brings up recurring motifs expertly, and sometimes explores witty turns of phrase and punnery to give some light to a very sad collection of poems

    In addition, normally I would die for Anne Carson but as much as I like the preface and appendixes in her translation of Sappho, the more widely read translations are there for a reason: Carson's If Not, Winter is a love letter to translation in itself, and makes no effort to contextualize or title the fragments, and is unapologetic about just having single words surrounded by bracketing (which is beautiful and graphically interesting). I also have some books from super new authors but I'm not sure I'm ready to recommend them for they are supremely embarrassing

    Eddy on
    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
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    zakkielzakkiel Registered User regular
    Eddy wrote: »
    Been reading a ton of poetry recently: I really liked Saul Williams' She. He brings up recurring motifs expertly, and sometimes explores witty turns of phrase and punnery to give some light to a very sad collection of poems

    In addition, normally I would die for Anne Carson but as much as I like the preface and appendixes in her translation of Sappho, the more widely read translations are there for a reason: Carson's If Not, Winter is a love letter to translation in itself, and makes no effort to contextualize or title the fragments, and is unapologetic about just having single words surrounded by bracketing (which is beautiful and graphically interesting). I also have some books from super new authors but I'm not sure I'm ready to recommend them for they are supremely embarrassing

    Now I am intrigued.

    Account not recoverable. So long.
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    AstharielAsthariel The Book Eater Registered User regular
    Every time im tempted to try Wheel of Time series, i just come back to read this review and temptation suddenly vanishes.
    forum.malazanempire.com/topic/21832-hateful-wheel-of-time-review/

    A lot of profanities and spoilers. Meanwhile, Nynaeve tugged her braid.

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    wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    So I hear the Dexter book finale is at least better than the show. Which admittedly it's almost impossible to be worse.

    I enjoyed the Dexter books I read so I might go back to the ones I never bothered with. Except the third book.

    wirehead26 on
    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
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    CroakerBCCroakerBC TorontoRegistered User regular
    Just a heads up that the Ebook for Ancillary Mercy, the forthcoming conclusion to Ann Leckie's Ancillary series, seems to be on some sort of ridiculous Amazon sale. £3.99 on Amazon UK, $6.28 on Amazon US. That's a good £1 or so cheaper than the older books, for a pre-order.

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    CormacCormac Registered User regular
    I recently finished and enjoyed Ancillary Justice but the reviews of Ancillary Sword make the plot of the book sound really unappealing. With a new Laundry Files book from Charles Stross coming out next week that'll be taking priority for my book to read.

    Steam: Gridlynk | PSN: Gridlynk | FFXIV: Jarvellis Mika
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    JRPGMasterPlayerJRPGMasterPlayer Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    I realize that this thread is mainly talking about fiction but I'd like to take a moment to discuss a book I finished a couple of days ago titled "Qaidu and the Rise of the Independent State in Central Asia" by Michal Biran. A good book, especially as it serves as an introduction into this relatively unknown area of histpry in Central Asia. It would have been much better if there had been a detailed survey of the sources used but considering the material, the nature of the book as well as the time period so I guess its ok.

    I'm also looking for recommendations, mainly scholarly but could not be, in English detailign the Kamakura and Ashikaga Shogunates in Japan. Anyone know of a good book?

    JRPGMasterPlayer on
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    N1tSt4lkerN1tSt4lker Registered User regular
    Cross-posting from the other book thread because why write the same thing twice!
    I finished The Martian. It was quite excellent. Also, quite glad I managed to avoid the trailer until after, even though that may have required me to hold my ears closed, close my eyes, and sing la-la-las through the one that played before Jurassic World. haha. I really enjoyed it, though. It was very thoroughly a 21st century Robinson Crusoe in all the right ways.

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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    So I finished Hyperion which was really good, then read Adam Roberts' introduction to it which I (thankfully, because it's full of spoilers) skipped, and he seemed to agree with the view here that the first book is brilliant, then the sheen lessens with each sequel as more answers are given. So I might look into the second at some point, but yeah I'm pretty happy with what I read, and would recommend.
    Now I'm already about half-way through The Unnoticeables because it is a very good book and I just kept going and going after I started it last night.

    forumsig.png
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    GrudgeGrudge blessed is the mind too small for doubtRegistered User regular
    Almost finished with The Emperor's Blades by Brian Staveley. Not very good, I'm afraid. I was fooled by a 4.18 rating on Goodreads, but I'll most likely leave it at a 2.

    1. Too long - to little story for too many pages, not interesting enough. I'm all for a slow paced story, but then you really have to have an interesting plot, a fascinating world, or a cast of great characters. Unfortunately this one has neither.
    2. Many "new writer" mistakes/bad use of language, especially in the first half. You can tell that this is the writer's first book, but these should have been picked up by the editor.
    3. Lots of anachronisms - demolitions, concrete, many American expressions that the writer doesn't seem to know where they come from or what they mean.
    4. Plenty of bad fantasy clichés; violet and "firey" eyes to mark out how special certain characters are, all the good guys are beautiful and all the villains are ugly, independent elite military units with no political ambitions etc.

    Now, reading two kinda bad fantasy books back to back has put me off the genre for a while. Now I want something different, and I thought I'd read some Walter John Williams. Any recommendations where to start?

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    ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    Grudge wrote: »
    Almost finished with The Emperor's Blades by Brian Staveley. Not very good, I'm afraid. I was fooled by a 4.18 rating on Goodreads, but I'll most likely leave it at a 2.

    1. Too long - to little story for too many pages, not interesting enough. I'm all for a slow paced story, but then you really have to have an interesting plot, a fascinating world, or a cast of great characters. Unfortunately this one has neither.
    2. Many "new writer" mistakes/bad use of language, especially in the first half. You can tell that this is the writer's first book, but these should have been picked up by the editor.
    3. Lots of anachronisms - demolitions, concrete, many American expressions that the writer doesn't seem to know where they come from or what they mean.
    4. Plenty of bad fantasy clichés; violet and "firey" eyes to mark out how special certain characters are, all the good guys are beautiful and all the villains are ugly, independent elite military units with no political ambitions etc.

    Now, reading two kinda bad fantasy books back to back has put me off the genre for a while. Now I want something different, and I thought I'd read some Walter John Williams. Any recommendations where to start?

    The Pantheon in Rome, built between 114 and 128 AD, has the world's largest unreinforced concrete dome. Humanity has been using concrete for about 8,000 years, and there are intact examples from up to about 3400 years ago Greece. A line in a book like "Yeah, Agrippa wants us to be pouring concrete by the Robigalia" would not necessarily be historically inaccurate. Beyond the fact that they'd really be speaking Latin, of course.

    As for demolitions, the word comes from a Latin word, demoliri, via French demolition. It's been in use in English since the mid 16th century.


    Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited July 2015
    N1tSt4lker wrote: »
    Cross-posting from the other book thread because why write the same thing twice!
    I finished The Martian. It was quite excellent. Also, quite glad I managed to avoid the trailer until after, even though that may have required me to hold my ears closed, close my eyes, and sing la-la-las through the one that played before Jurassic World. haha. I really enjoyed it, though. It was very thoroughly a 21st century Robinson Crusoe in all the right ways.

    Yeah, The Martian is a solid book. They're making a movie? Huh.

    e: Oh wow, yeah. Read the book before watching the trailer if anyone is curious about it. There's a lot in there.

    Jragghen on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Grudge wrote: »
    Almost finished with The Emperor's Blades by Brian Staveley. Not very good, I'm afraid. I was fooled by a 4.18 rating on Goodreads, but I'll most likely leave it at a 2.

    1. Too long - to little story for too many pages, not interesting enough. I'm all for a slow paced story, but then you really have to have an interesting plot, a fascinating world, or a cast of great characters. Unfortunately this one has neither.
    2. Many "new writer" mistakes/bad use of language, especially in the first half. You can tell that this is the writer's first book, but these should have been picked up by the editor.
    3. Lots of anachronisms - demolitions, concrete, many American expressions that the writer doesn't seem to know where they come from or what they mean.
    4. Plenty of bad fantasy clichés; violet and "firey" eyes to mark out how special certain characters are, all the good guys are beautiful and all the villains are ugly, independent elite military units with no political ambitions etc.

    Now, reading two kinda bad fantasy books back to back has put me off the genre for a while. Now I want something different, and I thought I'd read some Walter John Williams. Any recommendations where to start?

    I don't trust Goodreads at all.

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    ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Grudge wrote: »
    Almost finished with The Emperor's Blades by Brian Staveley. Not very good, I'm afraid. I was fooled by a 4.18 rating on Goodreads, but I'll most likely leave it at a 2.

    1. Too long - to little story for too many pages, not interesting enough. I'm all for a slow paced story, but then you really have to have an interesting plot, a fascinating world, or a cast of great characters. Unfortunately this one has neither.
    2. Many "new writer" mistakes/bad use of language, especially in the first half. You can tell that this is the writer's first book, but these should have been picked up by the editor.
    3. Lots of anachronisms - demolitions, concrete, many American expressions that the writer doesn't seem to know where they come from or what they mean.
    4. Plenty of bad fantasy clichés; violet and "firey" eyes to mark out how special certain characters are, all the good guys are beautiful and all the villains are ugly, independent elite military units with no political ambitions etc.

    Now, reading two kinda bad fantasy books back to back has put me off the genre for a while. Now I want something different, and I thought I'd read some Walter John Williams. Any recommendations where to start?

    I don't trust Goodreads at all.

    75% of the time I more or less agree, especially if the book is less than four stars.

    25% of the time, I wonder if it's people stacking/buying ratings or people having tastes that differ wildly from my own.

    Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
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    zakkielzakkiel Registered User regular
    I don't even understand how a public rating system for books could ever provide value.

    Account not recoverable. So long.
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    N1tSt4lkerN1tSt4lker Registered User regular
    zakkiel wrote: »
    I don't even understand how a public rating system for books could ever provide value.

    I skim through the reviews--a few high rating ones and some low rating ones to see what they say. I usually can find enough to give me an idea, and so far I haven't pick something that way and been really disappointed. I never just look at the stars, though; you could end up with some stinkers that way just because of differing tastes.

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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    And I finished The Unnoticeables! It pretty much doesn't let up from start to finish. Really enjoyed it, had some great callbacks to a couple of his Cracked articles that I enjoyed, frequently very funny. All I'd ask is for the next one to maybe ease off the pedal a little and allow the characters a bit more time to interact and develop.

    forumsig.png
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    zakkielzakkiel Registered User regular
    N1tSt4lker wrote: »
    zakkiel wrote: »
    I don't even understand how a public rating system for books could ever provide value.

    I skim through the reviews--a few high rating ones and some low rating ones to see what they say. I usually can find enough to give me an idea, and so far I haven't pick something that way and been really disappointed. I never just look at the stars, though; you could end up with some stinkers that way just because of differing tastes.

    Yeah I think individual reviews can be useful, for sure.

    Account not recoverable. So long.
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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    Will Eisner's New York. Proof that Eisner had a genuine genius for capturing human life. I've never seen anyone with better figurework. People slump, lean, sag, plead, stretch, run, jump, fall, schlep and schmooze and the whole thing teems with life.

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    ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    Jacob, you might want to add Shattered Sword to the history list. It covers the battle of Midway but is focused on Japanese operational methods. It's breaking a lot of long held interpretations of the battle. It's also an interesting case of a pair of authors going after a primary source guns blazing.

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    valiancevaliance Registered User regular
    Colour Out of Space is interesting in that it's classist instead of racist
    a refreshing change

    I think I like that one best as it's a really interesting and eerie story and while there are elements of otherworldliness, it's more about the people in the story than about the eldritch unknowable

    I also quite like the Dunwich Horror but fully acknowledge it's a really gross story in general.

    The Shadow over Innsmouth is my favorite Lovecraft story. There's a lot of icky stuff, as well, but the central core of the story is amazing effective - lone traveler ends up in isolated small town and slowly realizes that things are not well.

    The one thing that lessens the sting of Lovecraft's racism a bit for me is that the man seemed to find the bulk of humanity horrifying, alien and probably corrupted. I like to imagine him as this alien, possibly cyclopean and lugubrious, creature surrounding by all the horrible tribes of ape creatures.

    Robert E. Howard is the pulp that can really creep me out with his racism. Pigeons from Hell would be a masterpiece of horror, if it wasn't also so damned racist.

    I actually like Lovecraft's Dream Cycle stuff the best. The Silver Key and the other Randolph Carter stuff. Just so freakin weird!

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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Grudge wrote: »
    Almost finished with The Emperor's Blades by Brian Staveley. Not very good, I'm afraid. I was fooled by a 4.18 rating on Goodreads, but I'll most likely leave it at a 2.

    1. Too long - to little story for too many pages, not interesting enough. I'm all for a slow paced story, but then you really have to have an interesting plot, a fascinating world, or a cast of great characters. Unfortunately this one has neither.
    2. Many "new writer" mistakes/bad use of language, especially in the first half. You can tell that this is the writer's first book, but these should have been picked up by the editor.
    3. Lots of anachronisms - demolitions, concrete, many American expressions that the writer doesn't seem to know where they come from or what they mean.
    4. Plenty of bad fantasy clichés; violet and "firey" eyes to mark out how special certain characters are, all the good guys are beautiful and all the villains are ugly, independent elite military units with no political ambitions etc.

    Now, reading two kinda bad fantasy books back to back has put me off the genre for a while. Now I want something different, and I thought I'd read some Walter John Williams. Any recommendations where to start?

    Metropolitan
    Aristoi
    Days of Atonement

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