I love detailed explanations of sci-fi shit! I don't care if it makes sense, just give me more of it!
I mean I love it too
I just don't have tiiiiiiiiime for it (yuk yuk)
seriously though if you spend more time making a robust and interesting time travel mechanic than robust and interesting characters then you are not making a good science fiction story you are making a text book.
Changing time always creates a divergent universe different from the one you originated from. Returning to original universe is impossible because every instance of time travel will create a divergent universe
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MrMonroepassed outon the floor nowRegistered Userregular
Alternatively, you can return to the past as many times as you want, you'll just never succeed in changing anything since everything you've done has already happened.
There's an obvious issue with Time Traveler's Immunity, though. Say you walk up a set of stairs to get to a time portal, use it to go to the past, change the past so that the stairs were never built, and then return to right after you left. Due to Time Traveler's Immunity, this doesn't prevent you from reaching the time portal in exactly the same amount of time as it would have if you hadn't changed the past.
But then, what the heck did everyone else see you doing when you were climbing the stairs? Did you leave to grab a ladder but then suddenly disappear and blink into place at the portal? Did you climb the stairs anyway, leaving others seeing you walking on thin air? Does the version of you that never reached the portal continue to exist?
At first glance the third case sounds like Time Traveler's Immunity would rule it out, but I have another example.
Say you're offered a choice between a cheeseburger and a hamburger, with a friend getting the other one. You choose the cheeseburger and eat it, while your friend eats the hamburger. You then travel back in time, granting both yourself and the cheeseburger immunity (if you don't think that inanimate objects can be given immunity (but apparently clothes and inventory contents can for some reason), assume that you and your friend are snakes, and the cheeseburger and the hamburger are instead a live rat and hamster). While you're in the past, you make sure that you eat the hamburger and your friend eats the cheeseburger. When you get back to the present, what's in your friend's stomach? It can't be the hamburger since you changed the past, but it also can't be the cheeseburger that you ate since the cheeseburger has immunity. Either there are now two cheeseburgers, or timespace shenanigans will have resulted in the cheeseburger having ended up in your stomach anyway at the moment you left.
The fan interpretations of Chrono Trigger wound up using something they called Time Bastard.
Basically, if you time travel and change the past, the alternate version of you (or, if you want to get technical, the matter that traveled through time), vanishes, regardless of position, at the same point in time that you time travelled, so as to conserve the amount of matter in the universe.
Which is really fucked up if you think about it.
Enlong on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Alternatively, you can return to the past as many times as you want, you'll just never succeed in changing anything since everything you've done has already happened.
Exactly. Time is a dimension, so cause and effect are actually kind of the same thing, if you look at it in a certain way.
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#pipeCocky Stride, Musky odoursPope of Chili TownRegistered Userregular
Changing time always creates a divergent universe different from the one you originated from. Returning to original universe is impossible because every instance of time travel will create a divergent universe
Or it doesn't because it's not real and it can be whatever you want.
Changing time always creates a divergent universe different from the one you originated from. Returning to original universe is impossible because every instance of time travel will create a divergent universe
Or it doesn't because it's not real and it can be whatever you want.
I'll admit the Back To The Future version of 'look things will turn out fine in the end time just kinda works it out' is my favorite
but if I ever have to use time travel as a mechanic in a narrative or game it's going to be the first one because otherwise you will just go crazy
This thread isn't because of that time travel short in the youtube thread is it
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
What if...
Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space???
This time travel movie is really good. It's in Spanish, just in case that bothers anyone. The guy goes from not getting time travel at all ("Who is that guy with my wife that looks just like me!? Is she cheating on me with someone that looks just like me!?") to having everything memorized and getting shit done by the fourth or fifth round. It's also a great film to watch a second time to see how it all fits.
This isn't how the thread is supposed to progress... Something's changed....
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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I've always had an idea that you can't change the past because if you travel back and do something, you were already there when it first happened so you being there was always a part of the past.
I traveled here through time from the year of my birth to tell you guys to stay based
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Mego Thor"I say thee...NAY!"Registered Userregular
If I were to tell you now what we would be talking about in page 3 of this thread, the encounter could create a time paradox, the results of which could cause a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space time continuum, and destroy the entire universe! Granted, that's a worse case scenario. The destruction might in fact be very localized, limited to merely our own galaxy.
TrippyJingMoses supposes his toeses are roses.But Moses supposes erroneously.Registered Userregular
I particularly like stories in which modern people go back in time and bring their tech with them, generally resulting in a clash between different technological levels.
Ah, finally. Strange Attractors is the title of that book I read so very long ago. Thank you.
I read a bunch of William Sleator's books when I was younger. I actually had to Google him to get the right title for that one.
He actually wrote a bunch of interesting Sci-Fi for young adults. One called Singularity involves a pair of twins discovering a room where time moves much faster than outside of it, and what they do with it.
Changing time always creates a divergent universe different from the one you originated from. Returning to original universe is impossible because every instance of time travel will create a divergent universe
It depends on the model of time travel that you're using, but this is always a frightening possibility of the alternate timelines theory and it rarely seems to be brought up. Unless your time machine can somehow travel sideways to go between alternate timelines, you'll likely never be able to return to your original timeline again, and so everyone that knew you will just think you disappeared one day.
There's an obvious issue with Time Traveler's Immunity, though. Say you walk up a set of stairs to get to a time portal, use it to go to the past, change the past so that the stairs were never built, and then return to right after you left. Due to Time Traveler's Immunity, this doesn't prevent you from reaching the time portal in exactly the same amount of time as it would have if you hadn't changed the past.
But then, what the heck did everyone else see you doing when you were climbing the stairs? Did you leave to grab a ladder but then suddenly disappear and blink into place at the portal? Did you climb the stairs anyway, leaving others seeing you walking on thin air? Does the version of you that never reached the portal continue to exist?
At first glance the third case sounds like Time Traveler's Immunity would rule it out, but I have another example.
Say you're offered a choice between a cheeseburger and a hamburger, with a friend getting the other one. You choose the cheeseburger and eat it, while your friend eats the hamburger. You then travel back in time, granting both yourself and the cheeseburger immunity (if you don't think that inanimate objects can be given immunity (but apparently clothes and inventory contents can for some reason), assume that you and your friend are snakes, and the cheeseburger and the hamburger are instead a live rat and hamster). While you're in the past, you make sure that you eat the hamburger and your friend eats the cheeseburger. When you get back to the present, what's in your friend's stomach? It can't be the hamburger since you changed the past, but it also can't be the cheeseburger that you ate since the cheeseburger has immunity. Either there are now two cheeseburgers, or timespace shenanigans will have resulted in the cheeseburger having ended up in your stomach anyway at the moment you left.
There are multiple solutions. For one, you'll end up with time duplicates (ie. the you that couldn't go up the stairs never time traveled and is still there, while the you returning from the past has immunity and so did not vanish). Then the rules of your story can determine what happens to time duplicates (ie. nothing, they instantly vanish, they're fated to die, etc.). Another possibility is that you do end up with a paradox, but it's up to the ruleset if that paradox is a big enough deal to have serious repercussions or just a minor blip that doesn't really make a lot of sense if you think about it.
It also depends on if you want to bring the conservation of matter and energy into the equation, which it rarely is for these stories (Especially the alternate timeline ones because in that one you're managing to create an entire alternate universe out of essentially nothing).
If I were to tell you now what we would be talking about in page 3 of this thread, the encounter could create a time paradox, the results of which could cause a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space time continuum, and destroy the entire universe! Granted, that's a worse case scenario. The destruction might in fact be very localized, limited to merely our own galaxy.
You watched the Back to the Future marathon this week too, haven't you
Actually the idea for this thread came from a post I was going to make in the movie thread. Some people were posting their controversial movie opinions, and I was going to say my controversial movie opinion was that I actually liked talking about time travel mechanics from movies. But then I thought maybe that wouldn't be that controversial and other people would want to talk about it to so I made a thread.
Is this the place to complain about how shitty of a time travel story Chrono Trigger is? Because seriously, just look at it.
What I want to see is a time travel story where someone travels between their present and thousands of years in the past, and every time they go back to the present, everything ends up being completely different.
I've never actually played Chrono Trigger, which is kind of bizarre since my favorite game is Final Fantasy VI. I do own the PS1 version, I just haven't ever gotten around to playing it.
The neatest thing about the theory of relativity, IMO, is time dilation.
Because even though FTL travel isn't possible according to Einstein, if we ever figure out a way to go near the speed of light, significantly measurable travel through time in the forward direction becomes possible.
The neatest thing about the theory of relativity, IMO, is time dilation.
Because even though FTL travel isn't possible according to Einstein, if we ever figure out a way to go near the speed of light, significantly measurable travel through time in the forward direction becomes possible.
Queen has a wonderful song about time dilation called '39. It's about an astronaut who goes out in space traveling at near light-speed and when he comes home, due to time dilation he's only 1 year older, but 100 years have passed on Earth.
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Wait, are timestamps working with embeds now?
I mean I love it too
I just don't have tiiiiiiiiime for it (yuk yuk)
seriously though if you spend more time making a robust and interesting time travel mechanic than robust and interesting characters then you are not making a good science fiction story you are making a text book.
Need some stuff designed or printed? I can help with that.
But then, what the heck did everyone else see you doing when you were climbing the stairs? Did you leave to grab a ladder but then suddenly disappear and blink into place at the portal? Did you climb the stairs anyway, leaving others seeing you walking on thin air? Does the version of you that never reached the portal continue to exist?
At first glance the third case sounds like Time Traveler's Immunity would rule it out, but I have another example.
Say you're offered a choice between a cheeseburger and a hamburger, with a friend getting the other one. You choose the cheeseburger and eat it, while your friend eats the hamburger. You then travel back in time, granting both yourself and the cheeseburger immunity (if you don't think that inanimate objects can be given immunity (but apparently clothes and inventory contents can for some reason), assume that you and your friend are snakes, and the cheeseburger and the hamburger are instead a live rat and hamster). While you're in the past, you make sure that you eat the hamburger and your friend eats the cheeseburger. When you get back to the present, what's in your friend's stomach? It can't be the hamburger since you changed the past, but it also can't be the cheeseburger that you ate since the cheeseburger has immunity. Either there are now two cheeseburgers, or timespace shenanigans will have resulted in the cheeseburger having ended up in your stomach anyway at the moment you left.
Basically, if you time travel and change the past, the alternate version of you (or, if you want to get technical, the matter that traveled through time), vanishes, regardless of position, at the same point in time that you time travelled, so as to conserve the amount of matter in the universe.
Which is really fucked up if you think about it.
Exactly. Time is a dimension, so cause and effect are actually kind of the same thing, if you look at it in a certain way.
Or it doesn't because it's not real and it can be whatever you want.
Need some stuff designed or printed? I can help with that.
I'll admit the Back To The Future version of 'look things will turn out fine in the end time just kinda works it out' is my favorite
but if I ever have to use time travel as a mechanic in a narrative or game it's going to be the first one because otherwise you will just go crazy
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space???
If love transcends time and space, then why do you feel so empty inside when everyone who will ever really care about you is dead?
Edit: Though I suppose it could be that love is capable of transcending time and space, but the people who care about you just kind of suck at it.
Why would I feel empty inside when remembering those who impacted me before unifying with the single most ordered aspect of existence?
No, that's actually an increase in entropy.
This time travel movie is really good. It's in Spanish, just in case that bothers anyone. The guy goes from not getting time travel at all ("Who is that guy with my wife that looks just like me!? Is she cheating on me with someone that looks just like me!?") to having everything memorized and getting shit done by the fourth or fifth round. It's also a great film to watch a second time to see how it all fits.
Lol, noob
That's not s time travel movie. That's a schizophrenia movie.
Let me get on my tachyonic antitelephone
SLOW DOWN
This will be here until I receive an apology or Weedlordvegeta get any consequences for being a bully
I read a bunch of William Sleator's books when I was younger. I actually had to Google him to get the right title for that one.
He actually wrote a bunch of interesting Sci-Fi for young adults. One called Singularity involves a pair of twins discovering a room where time moves much faster than outside of it, and what they do with it.
It depends on the model of time travel that you're using, but this is always a frightening possibility of the alternate timelines theory and it rarely seems to be brought up. Unless your time machine can somehow travel sideways to go between alternate timelines, you'll likely never be able to return to your original timeline again, and so everyone that knew you will just think you disappeared one day.
There are multiple solutions. For one, you'll end up with time duplicates (ie. the you that couldn't go up the stairs never time traveled and is still there, while the you returning from the past has immunity and so did not vanish). Then the rules of your story can determine what happens to time duplicates (ie. nothing, they instantly vanish, they're fated to die, etc.). Another possibility is that you do end up with a paradox, but it's up to the ruleset if that paradox is a big enough deal to have serious repercussions or just a minor blip that doesn't really make a lot of sense if you think about it.
It also depends on if you want to bring the conservation of matter and energy into the equation, which it rarely is for these stories (Especially the alternate timeline ones because in that one you're managing to create an entire alternate universe out of essentially nothing).
We're going to be talking about Felicity.
And then there were still changes and honestly that was such a great two-parter.
Also I think it's great that almost any time that they use time travel and/or alternate dimensions, Daniel almost always dies.
WHY ARE THEY CALLED THE TIME FORCE IF THEY ONLY HAVE ONE TIME SHIP AND THEIR WHOLE THING IS STOPPING MUTANTS IN THE PRESENT
Because even though FTL travel isn't possible according to Einstein, if we ever figure out a way to go near the speed of light, significantly measurable travel through time in the forward direction becomes possible.
Oh shit that got invented already this time around?!
Queen has a wonderful song about time dilation called '39. It's about an astronaut who goes out in space traveling at near light-speed and when he comes home, due to time dilation he's only 1 year older, but 100 years have passed on Earth.