Isn't that pretty much the whole point of team games?
Thats with preformed teams, and it makes diplomacy even weirder and clunkier as the individual AIs have completely different preferences regarding victory types and now have to play together while still doing their normal thing.
I remember once in Civ IV I got a permanent alliance with one of the AIs. It was the worst thing ever as they generally sucked at the game and were building all the wonders I wanted to build in sub optimal cities taking forever etc.
None of my units/cities have graphics anymore, and terrain is kind of fubard too. In singleplayer with no mods. Guessing its from the new drivers the starwars battlefront beta wanted me to install. Anyone else having issues?
e:
Yep, went back a version and that fixed it. New nvidia drivers are bunk.
That diplomacy system they've talked about so much? Currently bugged such that you cannot ever make peace with any AI once they declare war on you. Which apparently they will do randomly for seemingly no reason. Great...
If it's just a bug and they fix it soon no big deal. However it will really torque me if their new diplomacy system is so flawed they can't fix it and just didn't mention that until now.
Also some people are saying the AI loves to make land armies to try to fight your ocean stuff and boats to try to fight your land stuff. Oh Firaxis...
*Edit - I think the funny thing about AI diplomacy in Civ games has always been that they are trying to win, just like you, so permanent peace just does not make sense for them. Sure military peace might make sense at times and should be part of the game, but at no time should they ally with you and be buddies forever since they will inevitably lose to you anyways. However I think a join victory condition that is doubly hard to achieve would be a cool idea.
Only Firaxis could screw-up something as simple & straight forward as the War Score mechanic from Paradox's GS titles.
The AI being incompetent when ti comes to naval / amphibious warfare is hardly a surprise, though. It's never been able to handle that.
You can currently get it for about 30% off at GreenManGaming.com, combining the sitewide 23PERC-AUTUMN-SAVING voucher and the 10% discount that's still active. I don't know how long the 10% will last. The voucher ends at noon Eastern.
I have very grumpily plunked down my $40 and change (always have to buy two copies of everything Civ-related). My first-blush enthusiasm for Civ:BE collapsed pretty hard after a couple of months, and "aquatic cities" just don't grab me -- they never have. But... it's Civilization? You buy Civ games. All of them. Even when there are better options.
I hope I'm surprised and it ends up feeling worth it! Or at least that my wife does. Any prolonged lack of a Civ expansion hits her pretty hard.
That diplomacy system they've talked about so much? Currently bugged such that you cannot ever make peace with any AI once they declare war on you. Which apparently they will do randomly for seemingly no reason. Great...
Have you observed this behavior, or are you repeating something you read somewhere?
The different governments are so dull in this game. Just a bunch of interchangeable bureaucrats.
Never mind how little sense it makes for ten different earth governments to try and colonize the same planet in a last ditch effort to save humanity instead of joining forces...
This is science-fiction! Go nuts. Have an alien faction. An A.I. faction. Have a faction led by a crazed zealot who wants to bomb everything so humans will revert to the stone age and be 'pure.' I don't know. Just seems like a lost opportunity.
I can't get into the leaders of this game. I like standard Civ because I have an impression of who Napoleon, Elizabeth, et al. were, so it's fun to play against them. Instead of just brown suit guy or gray suit lady.
I don't know, I felt some of the civs were interesting, they just need to flesh them out. The new ones are better, I especially like al falah and chungsu as far as personality from the previews. We will see how they are in game though.
I did like the Kavithans from the original game but agree that the American and European civs feel generic.
I don't know, I felt some of the civs were interesting, they just need to flesh them out. The new ones are better, I especially like al falah and chungsu as far as personality from the previews. We will see how they are in game though.
I did like the Kavithans from the original game but agree that the American and European civs feel generic.
I think it would've helped if one of the... what, three? European civs came on the Generation Ship, with the leader and population at the time of planetfall all born and raised in space. Not actually being from Europe would help differentiate them from the other Europeans.
Two European sponsors in the base game (the Slavs and the Franco-Iberians) with two more in CIVBERT (GB+Scandinavia and Germany).
But yeah, none of the civs so far are anything like SMAC's expac leaders - the rebels and aliens and Planet worshippers and whatnot. Everyone's the representative sent from Earth to lead their seed ship to safety and prosperity.
And then there's the Korean guy who cheated his way in, of course, but he's still sent from Earth.
I don't know, I felt the smacx factions were a bit out of place, even though I liked them. They seemed like they would be more appropriate popping up as rebels or emergent civs. You had pirates, a drone revolt, a planet cult, a cyborg collective, they didn't really seem appropriate for landing civs.
Apparently the planet cult is one of those that pops up later on if it's an AI, like the aliens do. Not too sure how it worked with the Free Drones - the few games I played of SMAC were mostly with the original civs, tbh.
I suspect that they didn't have anything like one of Yang's cities revolting, though. Although that would've been pretty rad.
And, of course, if you play as one of them all it does is push the starting years forward a bit.
The whole thing seems like something that could be done a lot better with BE's non-simultaneous landings and quest system, really.
Deidre (Gaians) was a core faction. She lands on Planet already worshipping it.
It doesn't make a lot of sense. They did a wonderful job telling a story through the tech advances and wonders, but SMAC suffers from many similar problems when scrutinized.
Deidre (Gaians) was a core faction. She lands on Planet already worshipping it.
I don't think she's quite worshipping it at the start, so much as holding its virginal territory with a certain reverence. It's only later on that it turns to full-on worship, I thought.
Deidre (Gaians) was a core faction. She lands on Planet already worshipping it.
I don't think she's quite worshipping it at the start, so much as holding its virginal territory with a certain reverence. It's only later on that it turns to full-on worship, I thought.
Yeah, it very much starts out as trying to live as one with the planet, trying not to terraform it to suit our needs but living with it in peace and harmony.
I was allies with two people. One of them declared war on me.
A few turns later, the other declared war on the guy who declared war on me.
I automatically declared war on the second guy as if though I was still allied with the first guy.
It didn't end well for either of them, but it was unexpected and annoying.
Deidre (Gaians) was a core faction. She lands on Planet already worshipping it.
I don't think she's quite worshipping it at the start, so much as holding its virginal territory with a certain reverence. It's only later on that it turns to full-on worship, I thought.
Yeah, it very much starts out as trying to live as one with the planet, trying not to terraform it to suit our needs but living with it in peace and harmony.
What I found most absent in BE was the lack of natural wonders.
Natural wonders helped push me outside my comfort zone for colonization. Normally I wouldn't build the extra city in the strategically difficult to defend location with no notable industrial capacity. BUT I'VE GOTTA HAVE THAT FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH.
There are natural wonders in bert, I just ran into some radioactive crater thing that gave a quest to mine it.
What I found most absent in BE was the lack of natural wonders.
Natural wonders helped push me outside my comfort zone for colonization. Normally I wouldn't build the extra city in the strategically difficult to defend location with no notable industrial capacity. BUT I'VE GOTTA HAVE THAT FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH.
There are natural wonders in bert, I just ran into some radioactive crater thing that gave a quest to mine it.
There is apparently 1 per biome type and 1 that can appear on any of them that is water based. Not exactly the most varied of natural wonders but it's a start.
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What I found most absent in BE was the lack of natural wonders.
Natural wonders helped push me outside my comfort zone for colonization. Normally I wouldn't build the extra city in the strategically difficult to defend location with no notable industrial capacity. BUT I'VE GOTTA HAVE THAT FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH.
There are natural wonders in bert, I just ran into some radioactive crater thing that gave a quest to mine it.
Hmm. This is the first time I've heard someone call game bert instead of just rising tide...
Deidre (Gaians) was a core faction. She lands on Planet already worshipping it.
It doesn't make a lot of sense. They did a wonderful job telling a story through the tech advances and wonders, but SMAC suffers from many similar problems when scrutinized.
She had just left a planet that was destroyed by man made ecological disasters. I don't think having priority #1 after landing being "Don't fuck this one up" is too unrealistic.
I was allies with two people. One of them declared war on me.
A few turns later, the other declared war on the guy who declared war on me.
I automatically declared war on the second guy as if though I was still allied with the first guy.
It didn't end well for either of them, but it was unexpected and annoying.
Either that or the game mechanic is conceptually fucked. Here's what happened to me.
I was allied to three out of four of the remaining civilizations. My enemy declared war on me, and my allies did not respond. He eventually declared war on them too. In the middle of the war and with no prompting, my oldest ally who had high respect and middle fear suddenly switched sides, then everyone else automatically declared war on me.
Pretty much ruined my first game. I'm going to put this down until it gets patched into shape.
The core.factions of smac all landed from the remains of the Unity mothership.
Onboard the Unity, they all had an important function, head security/science officer/mission leader.
Over the 4 to 40year voyage (somewhere in between because this was everything bit in name sequel of Civ2) their ideological differences took hold. A mutiny broke out, I *think* started by Yang or Santiago, the rest were opportunists. The Captain of the Unity and his bridge crew were killed (save Svensgaard, the navigator and Pirate leader) when the Unity burned up in atmo.
Landfall.
Pretty much starts out as SMAC, then,
I think there was a solar event along with a fungal bloom that wasn't hyperhelion of Alpha Centauri A and C.
Cha Dawn somehow survived without an oxybreather in a fungal forest. Splintered from a Yang compound.
The Drones *did* revolt, but I don't know from who... Probably Yang again, but I think it was Morgan or Lal's groups.
The pirates... Yar. Pirates. We don't need a reason beyond booty, booze, and Alestorm.
Aki-zeta splintered from Zahkarov. She was an assistant and somehow got infected with an AI during a test in the solar event.
Wait, scratch the solar event, it was the aliens. Aliens were fighting, blew each other up al la Transformers Gen1 episode 1. Energy wave caused all the ruckus and then they crash landed.
Sounds like the typical 4x tall-poppy "oh crap he's going to win, everyone dogpile on him" AI response.
It's not though, because there was a third AI left in my game, who just sat there doing nothing the entire time. Even after I had finished off the other two.
She then sat there while I built up enough forces to surround 3 of her 5 remaning cities and take them on the first turn I declared war on.
Also, has anyone actually found the aquatic cities useful? They don't capture tiles with culture, so you have to either constantly move them around (which prevents any other kind of production, and it destroys any upgrade on the tile they land on), or buy tiles with energy. They are also ridiculously easy to capture, since you can just float a fleet of the ranged naval ships with a few melee naval ships as pickets for subs and to capture the cities.
The only real advantage I see is, if you plan far ahead you can have every additional aquatic city you found, start fully surrounded by upgraded tiles? You are devoting a city to pretty much just move around capturing tiles though.
I think I would have rather seen floating cities. A city that can move 1 tile per turn, so you can use it as a forward base if needed. Let it set up trade convoys with a section of tiles in order to receive food/materials from that area, and allow your enemies to steal it to deny you resources that turn.
The new diplomacy system is way too limited in its current form.
Bugs aside, it's just a market for buying up bonuses. Even upgrading your relationship is mainly done so you can enhance said bonuses.
Changing agreements and relations only goes so far before it wears thin and you realize you're not actually engaging in any real diplomacy.
I wish I could trade techs, or be bribed/bribe someone else into voting a certain way on a Planetary Council/Global Congress, or convince them to wage war on a weaker/stronger faction, or hear about someone who was planning to backstab me or warn someone else not to bring their units too close to my territory or attack a station or hold a worldwide event or be part of a joint inter-factional taskforce to ensure a peace treaty is being honored between two formerly warring sides.
This game... I feel like I'm really starting to see the potential, and its growing on me, but I still feel like it's one good expansion away from being where it really needs to be. Maybe even a couple of good bugfix/balance patches.
Yeah it's starting to really have a more unique feel to it than before with RT for sure IMO. I liked it well enough before, and this improves upon that.
I just finished my first game, won a Promised Land victory. Soyuz is waaaay too easy, the AI was completely passive. However it let me test everything out and see what does what.
Steam Profile | My Art | NID: DarkMecha (SW-4787-9571-8977) | PSN: DarkMecha
It's a bit silly but one of my fav features is being able to see my avatar and the changes affinity has on him/her. It's some much needed personality for the game.
Oh, someone was saying earlier you were still limited to seven civs, you can actually add as many ai as you want up to all of them, you just have to go to advanced setup.
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Thats with preformed teams, and it makes diplomacy even weirder and clunkier as the individual AIs have completely different preferences regarding victory types and now have to play together while still doing their normal thing.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
Forced alliances are dumb because they exclude the best part of alliances; surprise betrayal
e:
Yep, went back a version and that fixed it. New nvidia drivers are bunk.
But that's what the regular non-team mode is for!
Only Firaxis could screw-up something as simple & straight forward as the War Score mechanic from Paradox's GS titles.
The AI being incompetent when ti comes to naval / amphibious warfare is hardly a surprise, though. It's never been able to handle that.
I have very grumpily plunked down my $40 and change (always have to buy two copies of everything Civ-related). My first-blush enthusiasm for Civ:BE collapsed pretty hard after a couple of months, and "aquatic cities" just don't grab me -- they never have. But... it's Civilization? You buy Civ games. All of them. Even when there are better options.
I hope I'm surprised and it ends up feeling worth it! Or at least that my wife does. Any prolonged lack of a Civ expansion hits her pretty hard.
I'm curious because I haven't seen it yet.
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Never mind how little sense it makes for ten different earth governments to try and colonize the same planet in a last ditch effort to save humanity instead of joining forces...
This is science-fiction! Go nuts. Have an alien faction. An A.I. faction. Have a faction led by a crazed zealot who wants to bomb everything so humans will revert to the stone age and be 'pure.' I don't know. Just seems like a lost opportunity.
I can't get into the leaders of this game. I like standard Civ because I have an impression of who Napoleon, Elizabeth, et al. were, so it's fun to play against them. Instead of just brown suit guy or gray suit lady.
I did like the Kavithans from the original game but agree that the American and European civs feel generic.
I think it would've helped if one of the... what, three? European civs came on the Generation Ship, with the leader and population at the time of planetfall all born and raised in space. Not actually being from Europe would help differentiate them from the other Europeans.
But I guess it wasn't to be.
But yeah, none of the civs so far are anything like SMAC's expac leaders - the rebels and aliens and Planet worshippers and whatnot. Everyone's the representative sent from Earth to lead their seed ship to safety and prosperity.
And then there's the Korean guy who cheated his way in, of course, but he's still sent from Earth.
I suspect that they didn't have anything like one of Yang's cities revolting, though. Although that would've been pretty rad.
And, of course, if you play as one of them all it does is push the starting years forward a bit.
The whole thing seems like something that could be done a lot better with BE's non-simultaneous landings and quest system, really.
It doesn't make a lot of sense. They did a wonderful job telling a story through the tech advances and wonders, but SMAC suffers from many similar problems when scrutinized.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
I don't think she's quite worshipping it at the start, so much as holding its virginal territory with a certain reverence. It's only later on that it turns to full-on worship, I thought.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Yeah, it very much starts out as trying to live as one with the planet, trying not to terraform it to suit our needs but living with it in peace and harmony.
I was allies with two people. One of them declared war on me.
A few turns later, the other declared war on the guy who declared war on me.
I automatically declared war on the second guy as if though I was still allied with the first guy.
It didn't end well for either of them, but it was unexpected and annoying.
Yeah, Deidre was just a new age hippie at first.
There are natural wonders in bert, I just ran into some radioactive crater thing that gave a quest to mine it.
There is apparently 1 per biome type and 1 that can appear on any of them that is water based. Not exactly the most varied of natural wonders but it's a start.
Hmm. This is the first time I've heard someone call game bert instead of just rising tide...
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
She had just left a planet that was destroyed by man made ecological disasters. I don't think having priority #1 after landing being "Don't fuck this one up" is too unrealistic.
Either that or the game mechanic is conceptually fucked. Here's what happened to me.
I was allied to three out of four of the remaining civilizations. My enemy declared war on me, and my allies did not respond. He eventually declared war on them too. In the middle of the war and with no prompting, my oldest ally who had high respect and middle fear suddenly switched sides, then everyone else automatically declared war on me.
Pretty much ruined my first game. I'm going to put this down until it gets patched into shape.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
Onboard the Unity, they all had an important function, head security/science officer/mission leader.
Over the 4 to 40year voyage (somewhere in between because this was everything bit in name sequel of Civ2) their ideological differences took hold. A mutiny broke out, I *think* started by Yang or Santiago, the rest were opportunists. The Captain of the Unity and his bridge crew were killed (save Svensgaard, the navigator and Pirate leader) when the Unity burned up in atmo.
Landfall.
Pretty much starts out as SMAC, then,
I think there was a solar event along with a fungal bloom that wasn't hyperhelion of Alpha Centauri A and C.
Cha Dawn somehow survived without an oxybreather in a fungal forest. Splintered from a Yang compound.
The Drones *did* revolt, but I don't know from who... Probably Yang again, but I think it was Morgan or Lal's groups.
The pirates... Yar. Pirates. We don't need a reason beyond booty, booze, and Alestorm.
Aki-zeta splintered from Zahkarov. She was an assistant and somehow got infected with an AI during a test in the solar event.
Wait, scratch the solar event, it was the aliens. Aliens were fighting, blew each other up al la Transformers Gen1 episode 1. Energy wave caused all the ruckus and then they crash landed.
Begin smacx.
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It's not though, because there was a third AI left in my game, who just sat there doing nothing the entire time. Even after I had finished off the other two.
She then sat there while I built up enough forces to surround 3 of her 5 remaning cities and take them on the first turn I declared war on.
Also, has anyone actually found the aquatic cities useful? They don't capture tiles with culture, so you have to either constantly move them around (which prevents any other kind of production, and it destroys any upgrade on the tile they land on), or buy tiles with energy. They are also ridiculously easy to capture, since you can just float a fleet of the ranged naval ships with a few melee naval ships as pickets for subs and to capture the cities.
The only real advantage I see is, if you plan far ahead you can have every additional aquatic city you found, start fully surrounded by upgraded tiles? You are devoting a city to pretty much just move around capturing tiles though.
I think I would have rather seen floating cities. A city that can move 1 tile per turn, so you can use it as a forward base if needed. Let it set up trade convoys with a section of tiles in order to receive food/materials from that area, and allow your enemies to steal it to deny you resources that turn.
Bugs aside, it's just a market for buying up bonuses. Even upgrading your relationship is mainly done so you can enhance said bonuses.
Changing agreements and relations only goes so far before it wears thin and you realize you're not actually engaging in any real diplomacy.
I wish I could trade techs, or be bribed/bribe someone else into voting a certain way on a Planetary Council/Global Congress, or convince them to wage war on a weaker/stronger faction, or hear about someone who was planning to backstab me or warn someone else not to bring their units too close to my territory or attack a station or hold a worldwide event or be part of a joint inter-factional taskforce to ensure a peace treaty is being honored between two formerly warring sides.
You know... diplomacy.
I just finished my first game, won a Promised Land victory. Soyuz is waaaay too easy, the AI was completely passive. However it let me test everything out and see what does what.
But no matter how many you have on the map, the victory screen will only show 8.
Seems the developers forgot to account for additional factions.