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Venue Size
I have a general question about the PAX East venue, granted I don't know if there's anyone publicly on here who can answer it.
I went to the original PAX some odd years ago before it was moved over into South Boston at the Convention Center.
It was moved there because the attendees grew in such size and it became so popular, naturally a bigger space was necessary.
I find myself wondering why this show hasn't found it's way into a bigger venue yet. Or why isn't it expanding to a second weekend?
The show sells out almost instantaneously with an unannounced drop that scorns anyone not checking websites by the hour.
I know I'd like to 3-day pass it with my friends, but we can never get the passes every year and counting. One day is cool and all but it's mostly a rushed experience.
At some point the venue needs to get bigger or you need more days. Scalping isn't being solved because tickets are so limited.
You could resolve scalping issues on some level by increasing your ticket volume.
I went to the original PAX some odd years ago before it was moved over into South Boston at the Convention Center.
It was moved there because the attendees grew in such size and it became so popular, naturally a bigger space was necessary.
I find myself wondering why this show hasn't found it's way into a bigger venue yet. Or why isn't it expanding to a second weekend?
The show sells out almost instantaneously with an unannounced drop that scorns anyone not checking websites by the hour.
I know I'd like to 3-day pass it with my friends, but we can never get the passes every year and counting. One day is cool and all but it's mostly a rushed experience.
At some point the venue needs to get bigger or you need more days. Scalping isn't being solved because tickets are so limited.
You could resolve scalping issues on some level by increasing your ticket volume.
Tinks on
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There's always MAGfest!
Yeah passes go quick, and it seems as though three days are being phased out (this is the first year since the inception of pax east that I'll be cruising on three one days rather than a three day pass), but the speed at which tickets sell out won't be affected by venue size. The beast has grown to a size that is undefeatable, it is one of the social events of the nerd calendar, and everyone wants to go, or at least enough people want to go that three days will always sell out in seconds, but that's just the nature of the beast and changing locations will do nothing to change the beast's temperament.
Also, btw, they have made it more than one weekend already. PAX is in Seattle, Boston, and San Antonio in the USA, and Melbourne Australia. That's 4 huge weekends of PAX to choose from!
The biggest problem, and the one that will never be fixed, is that the demand outstrips supply significantly. I read an article where Robert Khoo stated that they estimate that demand for PAX Prime is ten times higher than the amount of tickets that are available. I didn't see anything about East, but you'd have to figure the demand is pretty close. It doesn't really matter if the convention center gets bigger or if PAX moves to another one, because it's impossible to find a place that could accommodate such an immense demand.
This is par for the course for fan conventions like this. PAX Prime and East, BlizzCon, and SD and NY Comic-Con all sell out instantaneously. There is no venue that has enough room for everyone who wants to go.
PAX East: 2013
PAX East 2016:
[ X ] Badge [ X ] Hotel [ X ] Plane Ticket
THIS. The MA Legislature has approved a 1 Billion $ (yes with a
This project will be completed in 2019. PAX has a contract with BCEC out until 2020, and was probably one of the reasons this expansion went through.
Here's a recent article:
http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/real_estate/2015/11/massport-advancing-significant-mixed-use-project.html
I've yet to find anything where the BCEC itself has had its expansion resumed.
Needless to say, PAX can benefit from a larger BCEC. However they are not out of options! Much like they have done in Seattle, the Seaport has a large convention space out on their pier, and the Westin has spaces as well that could be utilized should Penny Arcade decide to go that route. Much nicer to keep it under one roof though.
That being said, the BCEC purchased land in 2013 that included 2 hotels and parking garage that are completed or nearing completion. This is in addition to ongoing private developments.
They do make it work for prime, but in Boston there's a few issues.
1) The footbridge has a people capacity and limiting that would be a pain, especially since apartment buildings exist on that walkway
2) The only public transit is the Silver line, and doubling the people would put an immeasurable strain on the MBTA and SL busses
3) BCEC and Seaport WTC are owned by different people, so ensuring PAX abides by both sets of regs and just scheduling would be a huge conflict for PAX staff
But as Sleep (and a ton of other PAX staff and mods) said, demand VASTLY outweighs supply regardless of how many days/venues you use
The other problem with expanding into a larger convention center is filling the space. The expo itself doesn't even fill the bcec. That is why there is so much unused space in the bcec. It is large enough to get the capacity we want, but filling it with developers to host booths is a bit of a trial if I'm not mistaken. PAX east doesn't get announcements (by that time everyone's holding the big announcements for e3), people aren't doing anything but good will at PAX east, trying to get some decent press, and a lot of the big name studios don't always show up (it is why PAX east is quite driven by the inde booth and the tabletop area).
When looking at the main issues of capacity at the moment the real dynamics to look at are the lines. As it is, with the current number of attendees, lines fill near instantly. If you don't make the front of the queue in the morning you don't get to try triple a video game titles, and I've had friends that were the front of the line (literally first in line), and by the time they got to the triple a they wanted to try (they basically ran from queue to queue) the triple a title had it's demo line filled for the day (mere seconds after doors opened). The same happens with almost any big game, or device (heck I've even seen it happen in table top). The trouble is that those lines are not capacity driven, they are demo time driven. Adding a larger number of people just means more people disappointed that they can't try certain games because the demos take time and they literally can't allow more people into the demo line, or more people pissed about waiting all day for a super short demo. Either way that good will I was talking about before gets dried up.
Increasing number of days for the con solves a lot of the problems that merely getting more space doesn't at all solve. Getting more space would drive up the number of tickets per day, but it wouldn't increase the amount of time available to service those extra attendees and would leave a lot of attendees swinging in the wind with little to do. In my mind I'd say that as soon as the bcec is expanded and capacity goes up they need to expand the con to 4 days.
The problem of selling out near instantly will never be solved no matter how many days or how much space they add. I just put a few hundred dollars aside every year in preparation to buy tickets and apologize to whoever I'm in a meeting with when I need to get the tickets because I know I need to do it near the instant the passes are released. Like I said earlier, nature of the beast.
Especially when those shows will likely only guarantee me a day of actual attendance just like PAX East.
The only option I see is expanding these shows, especially with the information swirling in this topic.
There's a lot of talk around contracts, so I'm not sure if they only have permission for the three day increments- but I feel like expansion of a day or more would be ideal. Hell how about consecutive weekends?
I'm sure PRIME and others could also handle/benefit from this type of format growth.
It makes sense in Boston because Boston hosts such a great indie scene when it comes to gaming.
I would still attend it in New York even if it meant a bit more travel, which is likely an inevitable city for the show when Boston years are up.
PAX would then benefit from more companies willing to commit and greater numbers, facilities, etc.
It's good news that the BCEC is expanding but it doesn't solve the problems these conventions now face. It is a problem and an opportunity these shows aren't taking advantage of at the same time.
I have no doubt PAX is a ton of work, but I would think the demand would create more jobs and opportunities for PA to expand these shows already. The resources have to be available.
PAX East: 2013
PAX East 2016:
[ X ] Badge [ X ] Hotel [ X ] Plane Ticket
https://allmylinks.com/topherxbeads
Do I want this expansion stuff to happen, heck yeh. I guess I have just formed a jaded attitude about all this because I don't really think the city cares. Seriously, this talk has been going on for 6 years. I guess, though, we can still dream
Overall, I get what you're saying. Everyone who likes PAX wants more PAX! They have done that by adding more PAXes, and they have said they are done adding more shows. Expanding East to two weekends isn't just making East bigger, that's adding another whole show. Now, I do think they will eventually add a fourth day to East (speculation of course), but what you're talking about just isn't going to happen.
Well if the skate park under the highway is any indication then they will get on to finishing these expansions in about 10 more years.
Nah for real though the seaport district is exploding for businesses, chances are the expansion of the bcec is getting held up because of 1 new leadership in the statehouse and in city hall and 2 because we were trying to get our ducks in a row for a possible Olympic bid (thank Odin that shit didn't happen) that may have meant a change in direction for expansion in the seaport district.
However buildings like the bcec or any expansion to it takes like a decade just to get the documentation right before a shovel ever hits the dirt. Especially given the probable square footage of the expansion and the fact that they are likely trying to hit a Leed cert with the expansion. I can't even begin to guess how much extra red tape and crap must be involved in the documentation phase for a government funded project, but once all of it is done the expansion will probably shoot out of the ground in like a year or two tops.
The crunches are as described above - demos on the show floor are basically a "ha ha good luck", and there's always a crunch for tabletop.
Based on the website description for each, Javits appears considerably smaller ...
JAVITS - "With 840,000 square feet of flexible exhibition space occupying six city blocks along the scenic Hudson River, the facility can accommodate any size event, at any time. It’s no wonder that 35,000 companies choose it as their preferred venue every year." (from their website)
BCEC - "Beyond the beauty and symbolism of the building’s modern, glass-lined interior, the BCEC’s 2.1 million square feet of flexible space—the largest convention space in the Northeast—provides an open canvas for both your event and your imagination." (from their website)
Also the contract between PAX and mass convention authority is until 2028. http://southbostontoday.com/a-decade-of-success-a-solid-future-ahead/ and http://massconvention.com/assets/pdf/MCCA_AR2014_01262014.pdf (page 5, see "14" sales fact on the left side)
expo space to expo space
meeting space to meeting space
ballroom space to ballroom space
Oh I agree it's unrealistic, but I was just speaking mostly in jest, as I could easily skip on a hotel if it was moved to the Javits center.
Many different types of people? To me it seems like only those who can spend their time waiting for their roll out to happen are likely to gain access. Which kills whatever diversity goal they're shooting for
Also my comment on demand/jobs was mainly a remark on the profitability of the show.