I'm not really a Mac fan. Seems like his job is to be disagreeable and support whoever is currently making terrible decisions.
Ward is fucking great though and disliking him is basically coming out and saying that you have bad opinions about this show.
Mac is the conservative voice of the show. Incredulous hesitance is his thing. He likes the status quo and is the most resistant to change. Which is slowly changing, as we saw at the end of the episode. He's the necessary grounded foil to all the gung-ho crazy in the show.
And Ward is the best, period. I haven't seen all the Whedon shows, but he's one of my favorite characters from the Whedon brain trust. He's evil and crazy, but also understandable. The way he thinks is consistent and even a bit predictable. And he's just fun to watch because he's legitimately dangerous in this world.
Like others have said, a Netflix Ward would be absolutely awesome/frightening.
i don't really see that in Mac. his biggest thing to me is that he's scared things will go wrong again, that the secrets and hidden agenda could lead to a repeat of the Hyrda situation. he's learned to be wary of secrecy, and that's something he's continually challenged Coulson on this season. hell, i'd argue that he's pretty opposed to the status quo.
throw on his time being mind controlled by Kree tech, and i don't think you can blame him for being mindful of all the things that can go wrong with pretty much everything they do.
and its worth remembering that he was ready to leave SHIELD altogether at one point. you can't get a bigger change than that. but ultimately he stayed because he knew it was the right thing to do. he believes in the work that the team is doing even if he isn't always happy with the methods.
Coulson is an old hand* at the spy game, and i think Mac has been a pretty good counter to that.
*has that one been used in the show? feels like it should have come up by now. :P
I'm not really a Mac fan. Seems like his job is to be disagreeable and support whoever is currently making terrible decisions.
Ward is fucking great though and disliking him is basically coming out and saying that you have bad opinions about this show.
Mac is the conservative voice of the show. Incredulous hesitance is his thing. He likes the status quo and is the most resistant to change. Which is slowly changing, as we saw at the end of the episode. He's the necessary grounded foil to all the gung-ho crazy in the show.
And Ward is the best, period. I haven't seen all the Whedon shows, but he's one of my favorite characters from the Whedon brain trust. He's evil and crazy, but also understandable. The way he thinks is consistent and even a bit predictable. And he's just fun to watch because he's legitimately dangerous in this world.
Like others have said, a Netflix Ward would be absolutely awesome/frightening.
i don't really see that in Mac. his biggest thing to me is that he's scared things will go wrong again, that the secrets and hidden agenda could lead to a repeat of the Hyrda situation. he's learned to be wary of secrecy, and that's something he's continually challenged Coulson on this season. hell, i'd argue that he's pretty opposed to the status quo.
throw on his time being mind controlled by Kree tech, and i don't think you can blame him for being mindful of all the things that can go wrong with pretty much everything they do.
and its worth remembering that he was ready to leave SHIELD altogether at one point. you can't get a bigger change than that. but ultimately he stayed because he knew it was the right thing to do. he believes in the work that the team is doing even if he isn't always happy with the methods.
Coulson is an old hand* at the spy game, and i think Mac has been a pretty good counter to that.
*has that one been used in the show? feels like it should have come up by now. :P
Funny, the second Roz dropped, I heard the word 'fridge' echoing in the Force, and the internet was right there to confirm my fears...
That aside, this episode was amazing
I think either Ward, Will, or Fitz are bringing the Entity back. That is, if that's how it works. It's so far seemed to be it's own thing
In all honesty, I see Fitz doing some amazing shit on the other side, likewise for Simmons. Actually, I see Fitz becoming a Big Damn Hero some time soon. He's like the Light reflection of Ward- feels too much, does everything he can to protect those he loves. He just doesn't wantonly hurt others to accomplish the goal.
And, yeah, I'd plotz pretty fuckin hard if Mack ended up missing an eye
Between Jessica Jones and SHIELD, Marvel is bringing it for real
Also, I'm 1000% on board with Simmons being Furiosa-status
the ATCU stuff. The issue of the government trying to figure out a way to deal with the Inhuman outbreak while coming into conflict with SHIELD is interesting and has the potential for a lot of stories.
Some people just seem to consider any death of a female character as "fridging". Neglecting that dudes have died, too.
I dunno, I'm going to give the show some leeway when it has such high concentrations of super badass women. It's earned that.
Furiosa indeed.
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The best part of the Furiosa line is that it means Ward has taken time out of all his mourning, plotting, manipulating and murdering to fanboy over Fury Road.
Edit: And in regards to fridging, I think there would be more of an argument if Banks hadn't gotten his unceremonious death this episode too.
"I promise to bring Will back." I immediately thought that sealed Will's fate. He'll being his body back as Will is the Big Damn Hero saving them all, thereby continue the Curse for at least another season. Maybe the monster hitches a ride on his body.
Simmon's was a little too not beat up for being tortured, but I guess it is TV-PG.
Bobby and Hunter were lucky TK guy hadn't worked out how to body-control people last week!
Joey may as well be wearing a red shirt. Unless they shuffle him back off screen yet again.
I REALLY want Simmons and Fitz to kill Ward, damnit. Coulson can join in if he wants, but Fitz just needs to end that son of a bitch. They need to introduce a replacement. Maybe he can be cloned first.
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
Everyone upset about Rosalind, no one but me crying for Banks.
You could actually call Roz's death almost a "Fridge Trope Deconstruction". Ward did, in fact, kill Roz to hurt Phil, but also to goad Phil into coming after him. Ward correctly predicted that Coulson would send FitzSimmons to the old NASA D.S.P. facility, making them an easy pick-up for HYDRA.
The original Refridgerator-ing, as pointed out Jacobkosh, was the writers killing off a hero's girlfriend, who had had no story or barely any personality, in order to motivate the hero.
In this revision, a villain character in-universe kills off a hero's girlfriend, who had just completed her own personal story arc and who posed a threat, in order to motivate the hero into the specific action of sending assets into a trap.
"I promise to bring Will back." I immediately thought that sealed Will's fate. He'll being his body back as Will is the Big Damn Hero saving them all, thereby continue the Curse for at least another season. Maybe the monster hitches a ride on his body.
Simmon's was a little too not beat up for being tortured, but I guess it is TV-PG.
Bobby and Hunter were lucky TK guy hadn't worked out how to body-control people last week!
Joey may as well be wearing a red shirt. Unless they shuffle him back off screen yet again.
I REALLY want Simmons and Fitz to kill Ward, damnit. Coulson can join in if he wants, but Fitz just needs to end that son of a bitch. They need to introduce a replacement. Maybe he can be cloned first.
I'm pretty sure that
the Chairman of Inhuman Stadium wasn't controlling Banks; he was controlling the gun, and Banks was too stunned/shocked to let go for the first few shots, then was actively trying to stop the gun from turning on himself at the end.
That was a good episode. Especially because i just kind of sat down last night with a snack, and figured it would be a "build up" episode before the mid season break next week.
Man! Was i surprised.
I knew Ros wasnt long for this world, but i really didnt think itd be that soon, and i certainly didnt think it'd go down that way. I hope they keep the high stakes running like that. Hell, i half expected Ward to just take out Mallick when he got irritated with him.
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JuliusCaptain of Serenityon my shipRegistered Userregular
Some people just seem to consider any death of a female character as "fridging". Neglecting that dudes have died, too.
I dunno, I'm going to give the show some leeway when it has such high concentrations of super badass women. It's earned that.
Furiosa indeed.
It is not the death of a female character that is the fridging, it is the killing off a (female) character in order to motivate the (male) hero to take the villain down even more. Dudes die too, but they are rarely a motivating factor, and really never the main motivating factor. (Poor whatshisface who died this episode too.)
Another aspect is the lack of connection between the villain and the female character other than the hero, reducing the female character, regardless of development, to a plot device. The AV club review compares this instance to the death of Jenny Calendar, but in that instance it worked because Calendar was a direct threat to Angelus because she was planning to restore his soul. A good criteria is just seeing whether it would still make sense for the villain to go out of his way to murder the female character if the hero didn't exist.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Some people just seem to consider any death of a female character as "fridging". Neglecting that dudes have died, too.
I dunno, I'm going to give the show some leeway when it has such high concentrations of super badass women. It's earned that.
Furiosa indeed.
It is not the death of a female character that is the fridging, it is the killing off a (female) character in order to motivate the (male) hero to take the villain down even more. Dudes die too, but they are rarely a motivating factor, and really never the main motivating factor. (Poor whatshisface who died this episode too.)
Another aspect is the lack of connection between the villain and the female character other than the hero, reducing the female character, regardless of development, to a plot device. The AV club review compares this instance to the death of Jenny Calendar, but in that instance it worked because Calendar was a direct threat to Angelus because she was planning to restore his soul. A good criteria is just seeing whether it would still make sense for the villain to go out of his way to murder the female character if the hero didn't exist.
Malick was using the ATCU for his own hidden nefarious purposes. Rosalind found this out. With this knowledge, Rosalind would be able to throw a wrench into Malick's plans since she's kind of the head of the ATCU. Malick sent Ward to kill her. Ros was a direct threat to Malick. Ward was in it for the lols, but Malick still needed her out of the way. So yeah, even if Ward didn't want to stick it to Coulson, it still makes sense for Malick to want her dead.
Some people just seem to consider any death of a female character as "fridging". Neglecting that dudes have died, too.
I dunno, I'm going to give the show some leeway when it has such high concentrations of super badass women. It's earned that.
Furiosa indeed.
It is not the death of a female character that is the fridging, it is the killing off a (female) character in order to motivate the (male) hero to take the villain down even more. Dudes die too, but they are rarely a motivating factor, and really never the main motivating factor. (Poor whatshisface who died this episode too.)
Another aspect is the lack of connection between the villain and the female character other than the hero, reducing the female character, regardless of development, to a plot device. The AV club review compares this instance to the death of Jenny Calendar, but in that instance it worked because Calendar was a direct threat to Angelus because she was planning to restore his soul. A good criteria is just seeing whether it would still make sense for the villain to go out of his way to murder the female character if the hero didn't exist.
Malick was using the ATCU for his own hidden nefarious purposes. Rosalind found this out. With this knowledge, Rosalind would be able to throw a wrench into Malick's plans since she's kind of the head of the ATCU. Malick sent Ward to kill her. Ros was a direct threat to Malick. Ward was in it for the lols, but Malick still needed her out of the way. So yeah, even if Ward didn't want to stick it to Coulson, it still makes sense for Malick to want her dead.
That was the the point I made. Ward was trying to manipulate Coulson because for them it's personal. Malick would have sent someone to kill Roz even if Ward had been killed off long ago. The only question I have is how did Malick find out so fast that Roz knew the truth? That's a little convenient. Other than that, though, it makes sense for Hydra to just take her out.
Some people just seem to consider any death of a female character as "fridging". Neglecting that dudes have died, too.
I dunno, I'm going to give the show some leeway when it has such high concentrations of super badass women. It's earned that.
Furiosa indeed.
It is not the death of a female character that is the fridging, it is the killing off a (female) character in order to motivate the (male) hero to take the villain down even more. Dudes die too, but they are rarely a motivating factor, and really never the main motivating factor. (Poor whatshisface who died this episode too.)
Another aspect is the lack of connection between the villain and the female character other than the hero, reducing the female character, regardless of development, to a plot device. The AV club review compares this instance to the death of Jenny Calendar, but in that instance it worked because Calendar was a direct threat to Angelus because she was planning to restore his soul. A good criteria is just seeing whether it would still make sense for the villain to go out of his way to murder the female character if the hero didn't exist.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that Roz worked for Malick and she had just learned that Malick was Hydra and turned her organization against him and Hydra, and Malick put the hit on her.
Like... how does this not make sense?
Yes yes, Ward hates Coulson and wants to hurt him etc. The guy running Hydra just rubbed out a former asset who got a peek behind the curtain. Which Hydra has done eleventy billion times and will do many times more.
Some people just seem to consider any death of a female character as "fridging". Neglecting that dudes have died, too.
I dunno, I'm going to give the show some leeway when it has such high concentrations of super badass women. It's earned that.
Furiosa indeed.
It is not the death of a female character that is the fridging, it is the killing off a (female) character in order to motivate the (male) hero to take the villain down even more. Dudes die too, but they are rarely a motivating factor, and really never the main motivating factor. (Poor whatshisface who died this episode too.)
Another aspect is the lack of connection between the villain and the female character other than the hero, reducing the female character, regardless of development, to a plot device. The AV club review compares this instance to the death of Jenny Calendar, but in that instance it worked because Calendar was a direct threat to Angelus because she was planning to restore his soul. A good criteria is just seeing whether it would still make sense for the villain to go out of his way to murder the female character if the hero didn't exist.
Malick was using the ATCU for his own hidden nefarious purposes. Rosalind found this out. With this knowledge, Rosalind would be able to throw a wrench into Malick's plans since she's kind of the head of the ATCU. Malick sent Ward to kill her. Ros was a direct threat to Malick. Ward was in it for the lols, but Malick still needed her out of the way. So yeah, even if Ward didn't want to stick it to Coulson, it still makes sense for Malick to want her dead.
That was the the point I made. Ward was trying to manipulate Coulson because for them it's personal. Malick would have sent someone to kill Roz even if Ward had been killed off long ago. The only question I have is how did Malick find out so fast that Roz knew the truth? That's a little convenient. Other than that, though, it makes sense for Hydra to just take her out.
Malick probably figured it out when Ros sent Banks to help Bobbi and Hunter escape from his goons at the facility.
That was a pretty intense episode. One thing i'm really appreciating more and more is Brett Dalton's acting.
That moment where he's talking to Coulson and then sees his brother. He just shifts entirely on a dime. And then again when he calls back and starts ranting at Coulson before his brother speaks up. And these are moments where during filming he'd just be on his own. Maybe having the other character's lines read to him, but he's having to rely mostly on himself for these reactions, not playing off of another actor.
Regardless of how the character plays out in this show i'm looking forward to whatever he does next.
The whole ATCU future is still hanging out there in the open, but I can totally see when SHIELD saves the day or whatever and goes to the President with "oh, by the way, you had HYDRA again. We stopped them and here's proof" that the US Govt approves of the new SHIELD, and the ATCU is being restructured to work alongside them. Cue rename to SWORD.
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i don't really see that in Mac. his biggest thing to me is that he's scared things will go wrong again, that the secrets and hidden agenda could lead to a repeat of the Hyrda situation. he's learned to be wary of secrecy, and that's something he's continually challenged Coulson on this season. hell, i'd argue that he's pretty opposed to the status quo.
throw on his time being mind controlled by Kree tech, and i don't think you can blame him for being mindful of all the things that can go wrong with pretty much everything they do.
and its worth remembering that he was ready to leave SHIELD altogether at one point. you can't get a bigger change than that. but ultimately he stayed because he knew it was the right thing to do. he believes in the work that the team is doing even if he isn't always happy with the methods.
Coulson is an old hand* at the spy game, and i think Mac has been a pretty good counter to that.
*has that one been used in the show? feels like it should have come up by now. :P
Those are really good points.
everything around the dude is too sus at this point
I'm just disappointed
That aside, this episode was amazing
I think either Ward, Will, or Fitz are bringing the Entity back. That is, if that's how it works. It's so far seemed to be it's own thing
In all honesty, I see Fitz doing some amazing shit on the other side, likewise for Simmons. Actually, I see Fitz becoming a Big Damn Hero some time soon. He's like the Light reflection of Ward- feels too much, does everything he can to protect those he loves. He just doesn't wantonly hurt others to accomplish the goal.
And, yeah, I'd plotz pretty fuckin hard if Mack ended up missing an eye
Between Jessica Jones and SHIELD, Marvel is bringing it for real
Also, I'm 1000% on board with Simmons being Furiosa-status
I dunno, I'm going to give the show some leeway when it has such high concentrations of super badass women. It's earned that.
Furiosa indeed.
Edit: And in regards to fridging, I think there would be more of an argument if Banks hadn't gotten his unceremonious death this episode too.
Yeah, I was being a dick
But also because Ros was fucking awesome, and I was heartbroken to be losing the character and her story
I just knew, knew there were going to be wild gesturing toward the food cooling device where Dana keeps her Zuuls fresh
Simmon's was a little too not beat up for being tortured, but I guess it is TV-PG.
Bobby and Hunter were lucky TK guy hadn't worked out how to body-control people last week!
Joey may as well be wearing a red shirt. Unless they shuffle him back off screen yet again.
I REALLY want Simmons and Fitz to kill Ward, damnit. Coulson can join in if he wants, but Fitz just needs to end that son of a bitch. They need to introduce a replacement. Maybe he can be cloned first.
Don't worry, Banks. I'll pour one out for you.
The original Refridgerator-ing, as pointed out Jacobkosh, was the writers killing off a hero's girlfriend, who had had no story or barely any personality, in order to motivate the hero.
In this revision, a villain character in-universe kills off a hero's girlfriend, who had just completed her own personal story arc and who posed a threat, in order to motivate the hero into the specific action of sending assets into a trap.
It's kind of amazing, actually.
I'm pretty sure that
Man! Was i surprised.
Another aspect is the lack of connection between the villain and the female character other than the hero, reducing the female character, regardless of development, to a plot device. The AV club review compares this instance to the death of Jenny Calendar, but in that instance it worked because Calendar was a direct threat to Angelus because she was planning to restore his soul. A good criteria is just seeing whether it would still make sense for the villain to go out of his way to murder the female character if the hero didn't exist.
Now THAT was a good episode.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
Like... how does this not make sense?
Yes yes, Ward hates Coulson and wants to hurt him etc. The guy running Hydra just rubbed out a former asset who got a peek behind the curtain. Which Hydra has done eleventy billion times and will do many times more.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
Regardless of how the character plays out in this show i'm looking forward to whatever he does next.
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