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[The Force Awakens] Spoiler discussion

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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    lightsabers are great and all but if you can't magically deflect shots from people shooting at you that awesomeness is sort of squandered by you getting your ass shot off as soon as they see the jerk with a space sword running at them

    But for a jedi A) they're more of an officer than a grunt in terms of the battlefield, so they don't need a big gun, B) are space samurai so their swords are symbols as well as being weapons, and C) they don't much care if you try shooting them.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Dizzy D wrote: »
    Enc wrote: »
    Can a lightsaber block the death star beam if we make one big enough?

    Sshhh. you're spoiling the twist for Episode IX.

    The movie is just two hours of both sides' engineers arguing over blueprints and scientists watching lasers move around in a test chamber.

    Won't lie: would totally watch this movie.

    So would I

    Luke: "Oh hey how about you use the Fo-"

    Scientist: "SOMEONE GET HIM OUT OF HERE, FUCK, MAN, THAT'S NOT GONNA WORK"

    Ten minute scene with scientists sweating, furiously writing and trying to solve a complex partial differential equation

    An entire film of this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2YZnTL596Q

    But also with lightsabers.

    shryke on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    So basically The Martian

    But also with lightsabers.

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    override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    Enc wrote: »
    Actually no, a lasersword is pretty unlike a sword. Swords have a flat side which cannot cut you, possibly even only a single sharpened edge. A lightsaber essentially passes through solid matter effortlessly.

    Generally speaking, you don't touch the blade of a sword all that often in most (not all) forms of bladed combat. The fact that it can instantly cut through things is not a huge difference as far as actually wielding it. Training for it? Sure. More complicated. But not that much more complicated unless you are wanting to pretend it is for magical space samurai reasons.

    not to go too far off on this tangent (too late) but the technique of grabbing a blade was a phenomenally important component of medieval sword training to defeat armor, and any competent swordsman would understand halfswording (at least, in any era of good plate armor)

    I was surprised at how prevalent it was but it makes sense when you realize you can't hack through armor with a sword

    it's way more complicated to wield a lightsaber than a sword and not die though, swords have weight and resistance, you're not going to drop it and end up with your organs pouring all over the floor

    override367 on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    So basically The Martian

    But also with lightsabers.

    Nah. Near future nerds will never have a chance at out-nerding 70s uber-nerds.

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    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    Bursar wrote: »
    Who here played the ol' West End RPG?

    Somebody breaks down the major scenes of TFA using the D6 game rules.

    I still, to this day, feel WEG was and is the best way to play a Star Wars RPG.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    That was a bit wierd to me. I mean, yes, it seems like a good technique to improvise a mace or spear if you are stuck with a longsword against an armored opponent, but if you know you are going to fight armor why not carry an appropriate weapon in the first place?

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    BlazeFireBlazeFire Registered User regular
    You might be fighting a mix of enemies?

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    jdarksunjdarksun Struggler VARegistered User regular
    Rchanen wrote: »
    Bursar wrote: »
    Who here played the ol' West End RPG?

    Somebody breaks down the major scenes of TFA using the D6 game rules.
    I still, to this day, feel WEG was and is the best way to play a Star Wars RPG.
    The new-ish FFG system is pretty fantastic.

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    WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    So basically The Martian

    But also with lightsabers.

    Nah. Near future nerds will never have a chance at out-nerding 70s uber-nerds.

    No entry on the team without a complete memorization of the THAC0 table.

    Steam! Battlenet:Wisemantobes#1508
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    Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    How awesome is it to be excited about Star Wars again?

    I was desperately hoping the movie would be good, but an unexpected but truly welcome new pleasure is that Star Wars is kind of a Wild West free for all again. This is the most open the Star Wars universe has been since about 1990, right before Heir to the Empire came out. I mean there were comic books and game sourcebooks but those were all extrapolations from the film; there was less of this suffocating notion of "canon."

    The galaxy of TFA is an evocative, thrilling mystery again, where every blank spot or unanswered question can be taken as a spur to the imagination of the viewer instead of a chance to run to Wookiepedia. Of course, that will gradually change with time, but that's okay; if Rebels and TFA are any indication, the Disney Star Wars galaxy might end up being a little closer to what I was excited for 25 years ago to begin with.

    I had an opposite reaction. 30 years worth of story to tell and it was mostly reset to the beginning. Plucky underdogs, oppressive dictators, the Jedi down to their last man. I felt that possibilities were cut off because we're never going to be allowed past this paradigm.

    I didn't leave thinking the Galaxy was a huge and wondrous place to explore. It felt static, unchanging.

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    The_InfidelThe_Infidel Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »

    Like, shockingly so given how good the rest of the movie was shot. It looked cheap and nature documentary like and just went on way to long.

    It's like....five seconds.

    Did look cheap, though.

    I didn't say it was long, I said it went on way too long.

    Actually time it last viewing. Closer to eight seconds, which isn't long for a wide shot, but just feels that way because the technique is so jarring compared to the rest of the film...

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
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    ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    I was thinking about what I wanted from the movie, and as I've mentioned many times I really think that the Starkiller base was a misstep, that they should have gone for a Raiders of the Lost Ark kind of second half.

    "How I would have done it" wankery inc:
    I would have kept most things the same up until they leave Maz’s planet. I might have made a few changes to how Han got the Falcon back. Something like Rey going to lightspeed to escape the Star Destroyer, but without any coordinates input into the navcomputer; that jump would put her right in front of Han’s ship. The map wouldn’t be a fragment, it would be the location of a Jedi temple that wasn’t destroyed in the purges, having been abandoned millennium prior – in that temple, they’d be able to find out where Luke had gone. Maz’s cantina would be in an out of the way location on a world that obviously had larger cities. But that would be about the extent of the changes.

    The big changes I’d make would start with the Starkiller base. It might even still exist, but it’d be a massive Chekhov’s gun, to be used in future movies, and clearly under construction in this movie. There would be no attack on the Republic capital. Instead, after the raid on Maz’s cantina, Snoke would order Hux to send a fleet back to Maz’s world to perform orbital bombardment on the cities in retribution for helping the resistance. There would be talk about how they’d have to go low in the gravity well to perform that, that that would make them sitting ducks for the resistance. Snoke would basically explain to the audience that the goal is to use the only major force they have in the area to keep the resistance from helping in the pursuit for the Jedi temple – they’d go save people, leaving Hux and Ren a free hand to go after the temple. In the resistance base, Leia would be firmly in command and coming up with plans, and she’d take the bulk of resistance forces to stop the Imperials from razing the surface of a planet, while sending Poe’s squadron to back up Han and Finn.

    Kylo would arrive at the Jedi Temple. He’d get to some ancient holographic map thingie, and it wouldn’t respond at all to him. Hux would sneer, but Kylo would explain that it won’t work for him because he uses the Dark Side. He’d order Rey brought down from the ship, recognizing she was Force-sensitive. Han and Finn and co would arrive. They’d sneak into the Jedi temple, hitting a number of the same beats that they did in the movie, but with more of an ancient temple vibe. Rey would escape while being brought down, without overtly using the Force. Meanwhile, we’d see Leia engaging the Imperial forces to save a planet.

    Rey would meet up with Han and Finn. Han would realize that Rey needs to get into the chamber where Kylo currently is, so that they can get the map. Han would basically walk into the central courtyard and call Kylo out, distracting the Imperials and letting Rey and Finn sneak into the sanctum, where they get the map to Luke. They sneak out, and see Kylo kill Han. We’d see Leia’s fleet blowing away Star Destroyers, and Leia momentarily crushed by grief before ordering a squadron to cut off the escape of Imperial forces. Meanwhile, X-Wings and TIE fighters fight over the Jedi Temple, and the Star Destroyer can’t help directly for fear of destroying the temple. Poe helps clean up the excess stormtroopers, and we get a Finn/Kylo/Rey lightsaber fight, with similar results – maybe put the fight on a bridge or something, and a crashing TIE fighter forces Rey to back off rather than a splitting planet. Kylo would be evacuated by Phasma, whose arrival would force Rey to flee. The Star Destroyer in orbit would start barraging the planet, and the Falcon would have one more escape sequence to get back to the resistance.

    And then end things in pretty much the same way.

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    JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Rchanen wrote: »
    Bursar wrote: »
    Who here played the ol' West End RPG?

    Somebody breaks down the major scenes of TFA using the D6 game rules.
    I still, to this day, feel WEG was and is the best way to play a Star Wars RPG.
    The new-ish FFG system is pretty fantastic.

    Yeah, I hugely recommend it to anyone who hasn't checked it out yet

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Rchanen wrote: »
    Bursar wrote: »
    Who here played the ol' West End RPG?

    Somebody breaks down the major scenes of TFA using the D6 game rules.
    I still, to this day, feel WEG was and is the best way to play a Star Wars RPG.
    The new-ish FFG system is pretty fantastic.

    Yeah, I hugely recommend it to anyone who hasn't checked it out yet

    Before the game was out a lot of people were skeptical because of the proprietary dice system but it's really incredible and well-done. The dice make the game extremely quick and easy to learn and play, even if people have little to no experience with role-playing games.

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    KhildithKhildith Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    Rewatching all of the Old Republic trailers in a row makes me really want a full length movie with that kind of cinematic quality.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuNvCOUy1Ts

    Khildith on
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    ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    Why did you have to use the Hope trailer?

    The Hope trailer is everything wrong with rendered cinematics: extremely pretty and incredibly vapid.

    I don't even mind the blade block thing, I just hate that the Republic troopers, with, y'know, guns and surprise, charge at the Sith. You know, the people with lightsabers. Absolutely batshit. There should be mines and layered traps leading into killboxes.

    No wonder basically everyone but Satele, Jace, and Malgus are dead at the end. That's some excellent battle planning.

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    KhildithKhildith Registered User regular
    I actually really like the ending of the Hope trailer, the flare reveal actually gave me chills!

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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited January 2016
    Random thought: The movie should have cut to credits after Rey leaves, maybe with a cool final shot of the Falcon going to lightspeed that then seamlessly transitions into the credits and then meeting Luke should have been a post credit stinger.

    Or something like that. The movie feels pretty much done when Rey peaces out so the last scene just feels kinda draggy.

    TOGSolid on
    wWuzwvJ.png
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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Join can't have meeting Luke as a post credit stinger. Since its plot critical to the next movie.

    wbBv3fj.png
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    DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Join can't have meeting Luke as a post credit stinger. Since its plot critical to the next movie.

    How is that plot critical? They show him for like a second and there's no dialogue.

    Plus everyone can just watch it on the you tubes if they missed it.

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    JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Shadowen wrote: »
    Why did you have to use the Hope trailer?

    The Hope trailer is everything wrong with rendered cinematics.

    I mean

    maybe the actual problem is in viewing it as some kind of military tutorial and also inferring an entire battle from a series of shots mostly focused on a handful of main characters

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    KupiKupi Registered User regular
    A few more observations out of my second viewing:

    1) If I were the type of person to read or write fanfiction, the acid test I would use for whether the person was in proper command of Finn's characterization is what he says the moment after being knocked on his ass. Because Finn gets knocked on his ass a lot in this movie, and every time he stands up or wakes up, the first question on his mind is "Are you okay?" (or the variant "Where's Rey?" or "Is Rey okay?"). He instinctively disregards his own condition out of concern for everyone else's. It's nifty and might slip past you if you aren't watching for it.

    2) As regards the question of "Why are there so few X-Wings in the Resistance fleet?", I noticed that the scenes showing the Resistance forces either approaching or leaving the Starkiller base are truncated in such a way as to not preclude their forces being significantly larger than depicted. That is, you never see the end of the X-Wing column as they drop out of hyperspace, and the X-Wings we see leaving the planet are Poe's squad, whom I personally would expect to be the last people to flee the explosion of the Starkiller since they'd be trying to confirm that Finn, Rey, et. al. were safely evacuated.

    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Join can't have meeting Luke as a post credit stinger. Since its plot critical to the next movie.

    How is that plot critical? They show him for like a second and there's no dialogue.

    Plus everyone can just watch it on the you tubes if they missed it.

    Because finding like is probably a point of the next movie. If the second movies comes out and Rey is with Luke training everyone will be like "whaaat?"

    wbBv3fj.png
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    DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Join can't have meeting Luke as a post credit stinger. Since its plot critical to the next movie.

    How is that plot critical? They show him for like a second and there's no dialogue.

    Plus everyone can just watch it on the you tubes if they missed it.

    Because finding like is probably a point of the next movie. If the second movies comes out and Rey is with Luke training everyone will be like "whaaat?"

    Like how in Empire, Luke went to train with Yoda and everyone was like " what the hell is this? Why didn't they show this character in the last two seconds of the previous movie? "

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Join can't have meeting Luke as a post credit stinger. Since its plot critical to the next movie.

    How is that plot critical? They show him for like a second and there's no dialogue.

    Plus everyone can just watch it on the you tubes if they missed it.

    Because finding like is probably a point of the next movie. If the second movies comes out and Rey is with Luke training everyone will be like "whaaat?"

    Like how in Empire, Luke went to train with Yoda and everyone was like " what the hell is this? Why didn't they show this character in the last two seconds of the previous movie? "

    I don't understand what you're saying.

    You could not have ESB start with Luke and yoda already knowing each other without introducing them in Star Wars. Introducing them after the credits does not count.

    The reason we have end credit sequences in marvel movies is because they wanted to add something that had no part in the next movie or the current movie.

    If they had skipped everyone's intro movie and went straight to the avengers everyone would have been the "wtf".

    wbBv3fj.png
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    reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Join can't have meeting Luke as a post credit stinger. Since its plot critical to the next movie.

    How is that plot critical? They show him for like a second and there's no dialogue.

    Plus everyone can just watch it on the you tubes if they missed it.

    Because finding like is probably a point of the next movie. If the second movies comes out and Rey is with Luke training everyone will be like "whaaat?"

    Like how in Empire, Luke went to train with Yoda and everyone was like " what the hell is this? Why didn't they show this character in the last two seconds of the previous movie? "

    That's not the order of the sequence, though. A New Hope ends with Luke and co being given a medal for their heroic service to the Rebellion. The Empire Strikes Back starts with Luke and co in the service of the Rebellion. One leads to another.

    You can't end TFA with a shot of the Falcon flying off to find Luke and starting the second movie with him being found. If you end TFA without having found Luke, you have to spend the beginning of the next movie finding him, to bridge the two movies together. You can't end A New Hope with Luke and co getting their medals and start the next one with Luke having a training session with Yoda.

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    override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    That was a bit wierd to me. I mean, yes, it seems like a good technique to improvise a mace or spear if you are stuck with a longsword against an armored opponent, but if you know you are going to fight armor why not carry an appropriate weapon in the first place?

    Swords are fine against armor, you grab it to direct the tip where it needs to go

    q6TXuqjl.jpg

    and of course they're amazing against hordes of unarmored peasants

    override367 on
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    KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »

    That Kylo Ren can be a real trickster. He must have gotten that from his uncle.

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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    How awesome is it to be excited about Star Wars again?

    I was desperately hoping the movie would be good, but an unexpected but truly welcome new pleasure is that Star Wars is kind of a Wild West free for all again. This is the most open the Star Wars universe has been since about 1990, right before Heir to the Empire came out. I mean there were comic books and game sourcebooks but those were all extrapolations from the film; there was less of this suffocating notion of "canon."

    The galaxy of TFA is an evocative, thrilling mystery again, where every blank spot or unanswered question can be taken as a spur to the imagination of the viewer instead of a chance to run to Wookiepedia. Of course, that will gradually change with time, but that's okay; if Rebels and TFA are any indication, the Disney Star Wars galaxy might end up being a little closer to what I was excited for 25 years ago to begin with.

    I had an opposite reaction. 30 years worth of story to tell and it was mostly reset to the beginning. Plucky underdogs, oppressive dictators, the Jedi down to their last man. I felt that possibilities were cut off because we're never going to be allowed past this paradigm.

    I didn't leave thinking the Galaxy was a huge and wondrous place to explore. It felt static, unchanging.

    Has the galaxy ever been a huge and wondrous place to explore in Star Wars? It's always boiled down to a bunch of creatures from the edge of human imagination standing around in a grungy bar. The setting got any wonder out of its system thousands of years ago.

    jothki on
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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    How awesome is it to be excited about Star Wars again?

    I was desperately hoping the movie would be good, but an unexpected but truly welcome new pleasure is that Star Wars is kind of a Wild West free for all again. This is the most open the Star Wars universe has been since about 1990, right before Heir to the Empire came out. I mean there were comic books and game sourcebooks but those were all extrapolations from the film; there was less of this suffocating notion of "canon."

    The galaxy of TFA is an evocative, thrilling mystery again, where every blank spot or unanswered question can be taken as a spur to the imagination of the viewer instead of a chance to run to Wookiepedia. Of course, that will gradually change with time, but that's okay; if Rebels and TFA are any indication, the Disney Star Wars galaxy might end up being a little closer to what I was excited for 25 years ago to begin with.

    I had an opposite reaction. 30 years worth of story to tell and it was mostly reset to the beginning. Plucky underdogs, oppressive dictators, the Jedi down to their last man. I felt that possibilities were cut off because we're never going to be allowed past this paradigm.

    I didn't leave thinking the Galaxy was a huge and wondrous place to explore. It felt static, unchanging.

    Has the galaxy ever been a huge and wondrous place to explore in Star Wars? It's always boiled down to a bunch of creatures from the edge of human imagination standing around in a grungy bar. The setting got any wonder out of its system thousands of years ago.

    Yes. Star Wars is like Trek's universe with more wars than exploring.

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    AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    People keep saying the ending was too long and somehow the solution is to make us all sit through the credits before we see Luke.

    cs6f034fsffl.jpg
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    Mr KhanMr Khan Not Everyone WAHHHRegistered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    How awesome is it to be excited about Star Wars again?

    I was desperately hoping the movie would be good, but an unexpected but truly welcome new pleasure is that Star Wars is kind of a Wild West free for all again. This is the most open the Star Wars universe has been since about 1990, right before Heir to the Empire came out. I mean there were comic books and game sourcebooks but those were all extrapolations from the film; there was less of this suffocating notion of "canon."

    The galaxy of TFA is an evocative, thrilling mystery again, where every blank spot or unanswered question can be taken as a spur to the imagination of the viewer instead of a chance to run to Wookiepedia. Of course, that will gradually change with time, but that's okay; if Rebels and TFA are any indication, the Disney Star Wars galaxy might end up being a little closer to what I was excited for 25 years ago to begin with.

    I had an opposite reaction. 30 years worth of story to tell and it was mostly reset to the beginning. Plucky underdogs, oppressive dictators, the Jedi down to their last man. I felt that possibilities were cut off because we're never going to be allowed past this paradigm.

    I didn't leave thinking the Galaxy was a huge and wondrous place to explore. It felt static, unchanging.

    Has the galaxy ever been a huge and wondrous place to explore in Star Wars? It's always boiled down to a bunch of creatures from the edge of human imagination standing around in a grungy bar. The setting got any wonder out of its system thousands of years ago.

    I like to think of it like earth circa 1900 or so. Very few places remain totally unexplored (although the new canon seems to be making wider use of the Unknown Regions, so suggesting that about an eighth of the galaxy was only recently colonized by the Empire, to the point that nobody else knows about it). But it's not easy to get from one end of the earth to the other, there are lots of places which are on the fringe, wild and near-lawless, and a lot of places quite comfortable and civilized, and a lot of militaries and nobility and intrigue.

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    EvilOtakuEvilOtaku Registered User regular
    If I hadn't known that Mark Hamill was in the movie, I would have thought that they would have ended like they did ESB. With Rey and Chewie blasting off to find Luke. Episode 8 could have opened with Rey walking up to meet Luke

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    TDawgTDawg Registered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    You can't end TFA with a shot of the Falcon flying off to find Luke and starting the second movie with him being found.

    You totally can. You could give Rey a bit more dialogue with Chewie/R2 to start, and you'd obviously skip the weird panorama shot, and it would totally work. However, we don't know how they want to start Episode VIII, and it may not flow into that as well. Perhaps they want the illusion of Rey being absent for a long time up until the end of the movie / maybe not even until Episode IX, and seeing her at the very beginning of the movie wouldn't be conducive to that. Like many things with TFA, I'm sort of waiting for all three movies to come out before I give my final judgement.

    That being said, aside from the weird panorama shot (hold the camera still for a nice wide shot of Rey and Luke and all that gorgeous scenery! It looks WAY better!), I thought it was a nice ending to the movie as-is.

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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited January 2016
    EDIT: I got better things to do

    *goes back to lurking*

    TOGSolid on
    wWuzwvJ.png
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    ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Shadowen wrote: »
    Why did you have to use the Hope trailer?

    The Hope trailer is everything wrong with rendered cinematics.

    I mean

    maybe the actual problem is in viewing it as some kind of military tutorial and also inferring an entire battle from a series of shots mostly focused on a handful of main characters

    I'm not asking for Rommel, I'm asking for alleged Special Forces commandos with guns to not charge into melee range against people armed with fucking lightsabers. This seems a pretty obvious thing to avoid.

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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    I loved every second of the ending and didn't think it lingered too long or anything at all. They say so much with those facial expressions!

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