Kickstarter?

KupotheAvenger · January 2016

Wasn't sure where to put this so figured this would be the best spot. I inadvertently created a card game that my friends are telling me to kickstart. Im literally done with producing the graphics etc (made a proto deck to play at game nights), but I have no idea how to even get this going. Any of you wonderful folk do this before?

DarkPrimus · January 2016

I've absolutely no experience running a Kickstarter myself but I've backed and followed quite a few, so I can tell you that the biggest hurdle people don't take into account when making a Kickstarter for physical items is the shipping costs for the items, and the storage for the items. Not only do you need to make sure you aren't losing money shipping items to backers, you need a place to store and ship the products from while getting all the addresses and tiers and whatnot sorted out.

Of course, that's getting a bit ahead of the game, as you'll need to find a manufacturer to produce the item you want to provide.

DevoutlyApathetic · January 2016

Maybe play around with https://www.thegamecrafter.com/publish/pricing and see what it could do for you? I seriously doubt they're going to get you anywhere near the prices if you dealt with a printer directly but....do you want another job which you've had no experience with? A bunch of people who gave you some cash and now think you should have only one thing in your life?

While I know the original intent of KS was to fund small art projects it's moved away from that and it's a huge undertaking and not really a business.

If you do go down this route look up Khoo's posts on running these and dig around for other physical games produced on it to see what you can find of creators saying stuff. I know I backed on by Tasty Minstrel I think that was professionally executed.

KupotheAvenger · January 2016

I'm kind of torn between manufacturers. I was looking at TGC, which a lot of indies sell through but I got my initial prototypes from them and the quality was absolute rubbish, although the price was manageable. I started a conversation with the company that produces the cards for Cards Against Humanity and their quality is much better but a bit pricier.

That being said Kickstarter has helped out with shipping so it's easier to set that per location, and I've got enough storage for at least the initial push. Thanks for the input!

KupotheAvenger · January 2016

It should be mentioned this is more of a side thing. The original intent of this game was to create something fun for game night. The whole Kickstarter thing was more of a "why not give it a shot?" Again thanks for the input I'll look into khoo's posts as well.

Artereis · January 2016

I'm sure there have been successful kickstarters of that game type. Look around for some finished ones and maybe email the organizers?

hsu · January 2016

Just a quick note on running a successful kickstarter, which came from a panel made up of successful kickstarters, is that you should have huge pent up demand for your project, before putting it on kickstarter.

All the really successful ones, they had been out there, in the wild, in the hands of testers, for over half a year, before the kickstarter project started. Even with that, they kicked off the marketing campaign / hype machine for a good month ahead of time, if not longer, so that by the time the kickstarter page went live, there was pent up demand for the project, with reviews about the project appearing the same day as launch, so that the project fully funded within the first week.

KupotheAvenger · January 2016

Ah, so it's probably best not to try to get this funded then. It sounds like I'd have to send free copies to reviewers etc and even then there's a chance they'll hate it. I wonder who I could possibly send demo decks to check out a game though.

Does this just mean that kickstarter isn't a place to get a project funded? The whole point is to get it into the hands of other players and maybe make a little bit of side profit. So I'd have to do an entire marketing campaign before I even try to get it funded? That's a whole lot of money for nothing...

Narbus · January 2016

KupotheAvenger wrote: »

Ah, so it's probably best not to try to get this funded then. It sounds like I'd have to send free copies to reviewers etc and even then there's a chance they'll hate it. I wonder who I could possibly send demo decks to check out a game though.

Does this just mean that kickstarter isn't a place to get a project funded? The whole point is to get it into the hands of other players and maybe make a little bit of side profit. So I'd have to do an entire marketing campaign before I even try to get it funded? That's a whole lot of money for nothing...

You're trying to get people to give you their money in exchange for your product. That's basically the definition of marketing. In the case of Kickstarter, you're throwing in the extra hurdle of your product not actually being ready yet, so that's advanced marketing. You are going to have to do a marketing campaign here, yes.

Six · January 2016

Everything you could ever want to know about running a tabletop game Kickstarter:

http://stonemaiergames.com/e-newsletter/blog/

Much of it won't apply to you since you're just talking about cards, but it's really worth reading through. Nobody does board game Kickstarters than Jamey and he's spent years writing down everything he's learned.

The Ender · January 2016

I have published multiple small projects through TGC and a few other (what people 'in da biz' call) vanity publishers.

Just FYI, on a relative scale, for the price involved: TGC is not just good quality vanity press, but excellent quality vanity press. if you didn't like what you received, I'd recommend staying away from any kind of print on demand service. You'll not be happy with the end product.

As far as Kickstarter goes, it is mostly a tool for using an already existing audience as a business springboard. A Kickstarter without an audience (and, if we're honest, probably an expert that can help you manage the campaign) is likely to be an exercise in sadness. If you're thinking of just doing it on a lark, by all means go for it, but don't expect much in terms of results. If this is a serious thing for you, go build an audience first - then set-up the Kickstarters to mobilize that audience.

DevoutlyApathetic · January 2016

Kupo it's funny as I've actually moved more toward it being reasonable for you to run a Kickstarter as the thread goes on while you go the other way. I think what could be helpful right now is what you think a "good" outcome would be.

What I see would be:

Spread a fun game to others.
Get some Project Management experience.
Get a cool story to tell.
Make less money than minimum wage for the hours worked but maybe actually make some money.

Your goals are going to be important in what kind of funding you're talking about in order to go forward. A couple hundred? A couple thousand? More? I don't know where the economy of scales are for printing like this. In my industry the first piece made could easily cost thousands of dollars but the second is a dollar. So I completely understand what Reaper is up to with their Kickstarters. Do you have a similar thing or is it feasible that the Kickstarter works with you making 20 decks?

The Ender · January 2016

...Also @KupotheAvenger , I'm a bit hesitant to offer this as advice because I don't know if the proverbial bubble has popped yet and the shtick is a few years old, but:

If you're just looking for a quick graphic design project to get lunch money with, I'll offer something of an old trade tip - the hottest selling items on RPGNow have traditionally been random [stuff] charts. Spend a few hours making a nicely formatted d20 or d12 chart book for making 5E potions or magic weapons or encounters or whatever, upload it to RPGNow and sell it for $1.50 - $2.00.

EZ freelance EZ lyfe.

Again, things may be different these days (those charts used to go like hotcakes but it's been forever since I last did this)... but looking right now at the RPGNow front page, it still sure looks like the random charts people sell for a buck or two are among the most bought items.

KupotheAvenger · January 2016

@DevoutlyApathetic Thanks man. I've actually just been swaying back and forth. So my MVP, minimum viable product goals have been this:

-Design a game my peers and girlfriend like to play (the second part of that was the trickiest)
-Develop an interesting narrative that I personally would like to continue
-Actually do it

That was it. So technically if I never run the kickstarter, I've already won (in my head anyway). The whole reason I asked the question was because my friends and I play our board games at coffee shops / board game cafes and are asked pretty constantly where they could buy that game or if it's going to be up on kickstarter. I always answered with "No, this is just an test game we built.", but when I've not been present, my friends have said "we're talking to the designer." I honestly am not trying to make a huge amount of money off of this, but others seem to think this would be a potentially growable game, specifically because of the drafting mechanic and the fact that the rules can be pretty free-form. As such my MVP for the kickstarter would be simply this:

-Spread a fun game to others
-Make less money than minimum wage for the hours I put into the game

That being said I'm leaning toward a hybrid of everyone's suggestions. I was actually going to reach out to the fun folks over in Critical Failiures to see if they'd run a playtest, and potentially send a demo deck to someone to play at PAX with other PAers. Then just do a small budget low release kickstarter and see how that goes. If it fails, I can tweak it or go a lot harder on marketing or just be happy that I made the game and be done with it.

@The Ender Still a viable method of freelance income! I may research that for shits and giggles.

The Ender · January 2016

I was actually going to reach out to the fun folks over in Critical Failiures to see if they'd run a playtest, and potentially send a demo deck to someone to play at PAX with other PAers. Then just do a small budget low release kickstarter and see how that goes. If it fails, I can tweak it or go a lot harder on marketing or just be happy that I made the game and be done with it.

This is a very sensible approach. I wholly endorse, and wish you good luck.

Penny Arcade

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