Just got stuck with the worst group for Arboretum. BRD was new, and the WHM and BLM were just terrible. BRD and BLM die about 2/3rds of the way through Rose Garden, so me and the healer trudge through it. We wiped to the queen bee once. We couldn't finish the dungeon because we kept wiping to Belladonna.
Frond Fatale isn't hard to dodge. Especially when you know it's coming because I warned the group about it twice - once at the beginning, once after wipe 2. Sometimes RNG sucks, but generally you can get out of the floor AOEs. There's really not much else to look for, certainly nothing that should be very troubling. Yet we wiped 4-5 times.
I just don't get it. Especially when the BRD, at least, can do a lot on the move. And everything except Fatale has a relatively long visible telegraph.
@AngelHedgie
Ooooooh my goodness!
You asked me today if I have been checking the forum lately.
I just got caught up
Congratulations x 1000!
I am happy for the two of you!
And if you have Belladonna as your focus target (which you should) you can see the Frond Fatale cast bar no matter what.
Minfillia speculation:
What if she's dead, but her soul has become Hydaelyn's Voice?
no no
shes been tempered by hydaelyn because she discovered Her horrible truth i.e. being a lavos esque space parasite that feeds off the death and destruction caused by umbral/astral cycles
And if you have Belladonna as your focus target (which you should) you can see the Frond Fatale cast bar no matter what.
Minfillia speculation:
What if she's dead, but her soul has become Hydaelyn's Voice?
no no
shes been tempered by hydaelyn because she discovered Her horrible truth i.e. being a lavos esque space parasite that feeds off the death and destruction caused by umbral/astral cycles
and the only way to stop the cycle is to team up with Marche, destroy the mother crystal, and go back to school.
Standard cross-class for LNC/ARC crosses...
Raging Strikes
Blood for Blood
Invigorate
Hawk's Eye
Quelling Strikes or Feint
Feint is used as a pseudo-Scathe so you can be doing damage while moving without toggling off Gauss Barrel. However with the current MCH meta which involves Gauss dancing, MCHs have really high mobility so Feint is even less likely to be used as it was already really situational on a BRD. But it's still a DPS increase in those cases where you do get the chance to use it.
Quelling Strikes is a little iffy since you don't get the full benefit out of it since you have to pop so many buffs as part of the opener and the opener has such a long delay before the damage nuke ticks. If you have a tank that's struggling to hold aggro against your phat opener, it's an option...
Just got stuck with the worst group for Arboretum. BRD was new, and the WHM and BLM were just terrible. BRD and BLM die about 2/3rds of the way through Rose Garden, so me and the healer trudge through it. We wiped to the queen bee once. We couldn't finish the dungeon because we kept wiping to Belladonna.
Frond Fatale isn't hard to dodge. Especially when you know it's coming because I warned the group about it twice - once at the beginning, once after wipe 2. Sometimes RNG sucks, but generally you can get out of the floor AOEs. There's really not much else to look for, certainly nothing that should be very troubling. Yet we wiped 4-5 times.
I just don't get it. Especially when the BRD, at least, can do a lot on the move. And everything except Fatale has a relatively long visible telegraph.
It just depends. A lot do not look for her telegraph when they are running around and she isn't targetted. Frond has a very active telegraph in that she rises up on her legs (they almost go perfectly straight) and her head has a glow for about 2-3 seconds before disappearing and then frond is cast like a second after that. There are times when I know I don't have her targetted that I'll start watching for it (plus it only really starts cropping up when the bulbs get cast out with their small aoes). So yeah, it isn't hard to dodge but we have quite a few player base that either don't care (healer keeps me up, the explosion to remove seduce won't hurt me, etc) or they don't know when frond will come up and thus aren't looking for it and get hit, or are still new and don't understand mechanics.
At least that's what I have seen running thru there. I've had dps tell me its fine if they get seduced as I'll (healer) will keep them up and I just shake my head since I don't understand why you'd give up 5-10 seconds of no direct dps.
Greetings Starfighter! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan Armada.
As a tank, I actually hardly ever look at bosses themselves. I'm usually looking at:
My positioning vs. the group's vs. the arena
My cooldowns
The aggro list
Any ground marked AOEs
The enemy casting bar for things like Frond Fatale
The actual boss is basically in the corner of my vision as I focus on other things to manage the battle. Kind of like how in fighting games, like Street Fighter, you don't really look at your character, but your opponent and the space between.
But, yeah, Belladonna has a pretty obvious pattern. FF won't be cast until she poops out her buddies. Often, she'll do it while everyone is running away from each other to spread out the AOEs anchored on them in order to reduce damage from overlaps, so when you try to re-engage the boss, it hits and you get seduced. It's a little tricky from a human psychology standpoint in that regard (getting punished for rushing back to damage the boss can be a bit of a mental hiccup), but it's certainly not something a group should fall prey to in 5-6 discrete encounters.
I really think it was just a matter of getting saddled with really casual players who have been carried for a lot of their progression, because I've cleared Arboretum several times (I only got to it about 10 days ago) without any trouble until my last attempt. Thankfully, I was able to roulette Pharos Sirius hard with a solid group to get the last of my weekly eso later that night.
IlpalaJust this guy, y'knowTexasRegistered Userregular
Played...a lot this weekend. Got my main up to level 47 though! Real excited to see if I can make the push to 50 tomo--oh. Oh what's that? Maintenance tomorrow night?
That's...that's fine.
FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
Figured out that you can set the R1 crossbar toggle to cycle through specified bars, which can actually be different sets of bars depending on whether or not you have a weapon drawn (Character Settings -> Hotbar -> Cross on the PS4). So, I made it so R1 cycles between bars 1 and 2 in combat, and the L2->R2/R2->L2 button combos access bar 3. The end result is 48 buttons available to me in combat with a minimum of fuss.
Out of combat, R1 cycles through my travel bar (sprint, teleport, return, various mounts) and my target marking/waypoint bar.
I also made a couple of macros for ACN pet summoning that puts that specific pet's abilities on bar 3.
Just got stuck with the worst group for Arboretum. BRD was new, and the WHM and BLM were just terrible. BRD and BLM die about 2/3rds of the way through Rose Garden, so me and the healer trudge through it. We wiped to the queen bee once. We couldn't finish the dungeon because we kept wiping to Belladonna.
Frond Fatale isn't hard to dodge. Especially when you know it's coming because I warned the group about it twice - once at the beginning, once after wipe 2. Sometimes RNG sucks, but generally you can get out of the floor AOEs. There's really not much else to look for, certainly nothing that should be very troubling. Yet we wiped 4-5 times.
I just don't get it. Especially when the BRD, at least, can do a lot on the move. And everything except Fatale has a relatively long visible telegraph.
It just depends. A lot do not look for her telegraph when they are running around and she isn't targetted. Frond has a very active telegraph in that she rises up on her legs (they almost go perfectly straight) and her head has a glow for about 2-3 seconds before disappearing and then frond is cast like a second after that. There are times when I know I don't have her targetted that I'll start watching for it (plus it only really starts cropping up when the bulbs get cast out with their small aoes). So yeah, it isn't hard to dodge but we have quite a few player base that either don't care (healer keeps me up, the explosion to remove seduce won't hurt me, etc) or they don't know when frond will come up and thus aren't looking for it and get hit, or are still new and don't understand mechanics.
At least that's what I have seen running thru there. I've had dps tell me its fine if they get seduced as I'll (healer) will keep them up and I just shake my head since I don't understand why you'd give up 5-10 seconds of no direct dps.
Focus target should be standard practice. Even as a tank.
Focus target the boss, see every single cast they do regardless of what you're targeting. Better yet, put the focus target window in a spot that's within your sight all the time. For me, I have it located in my peripheral vision around the centre of the screen so as soon as I see a cast bar appear, I know something is happening and no matter what major element I'm looking at, it's in the corner of my vision.
Relic weapons are always a step behind the cutting edge PvE stuff
They're the catch up mechanic.
Don't they take a lot longer than anything else to get in this game?
They can take a long time if you do them casually, but if you dive full into them you can typically knock it out in a week or two depending on what is involved.
They are a catch-up mechanic in that if you don't want to/can't do the harder content in the game you can still get access to an equivalently powerful weapon eventually. However since it is a powerful weapon it still requires a lot of effort, just in the form of time investment this time instead of defeating difficult content.
Delphinidaes on
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I do dislike how other than the first part, every subsequent relic step has been an annoying grind. Even though it took a long time due to PUGs being PUGs, getting my initial relic from killing Hydra, Chimera, and the 3 HM primals felt like an accomplishment. None of the other steps have been as interesting.
I actually did kind of like the book steps, since you could see exactly your progress and what you needed to do, and there was a bit of variety in each thing. I know a lot of people hated them.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited February 2016
I just don't like that every individual step has been an unfun mind numbing slog.
I mean, I agree about the initial relic. "Get me the instructions and then the ingredients to make this thing on my forge."
Once that is done, everything after just feels like "Go thump your head against a brick wall for a few weeks and then come back."
I mean seriously. Some combination of up to 200 full Alex runs, or 27k law and 27k poetics (over 220 level 50 roulettes), or 1040 beast tribe items?
And all this just to go from step 2 to step 3 in the quest chain.
Knocking it out in a week or two? I am NOT going to run a 50 roulette or a complete Alex 1-4 run 14 times a day for 14 days.
This is bullshit that is not worth my time.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Yeah. I'm personally losing interest in the quest and regretting that I began it. Sort of came to that realization all at once when I looked back at the time it took me to take my reputation with Kobolds to level 3, and then looked ahead at the time it would take to get a single Ore.
And if it's never going to be best in show anyway, then holy fuck what is the point?
Enlong on
+1
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited February 2016
I got my original relic to ilvl 100 and all the jobs other than white mage to ilvl 90; and started on the 10 books for White Mage by the time the expansion rolled out, and then immediately threw them all on a retainer and crafted ilvl 115 nq weapon.
Dusk Vigil gives ilvl 120 green drops. The relic weapons may be a catch-up mechanic, but it rates a poor second place to doing the content later.
I would still like the Z title, but not enough to really do anything about it.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I got my original relic to ilvl 100 and all the jobs other than white mage to ilvl 90; and started on the 10 books for White Mage by the time the expansion rolled out, and then immediately threw them all on a retainer and crafted ilvl 115 nq weapon.
Dusk Vigil gives ilvl 120 green drops. The relic weapons may be a catch-up mechanic, but it rates a poor second place to doing the content later.
I would still like the Z title, but not enough to really do anything about it.
There's a new quest being introduced that will only be available to players who have completed a Zeta relic.
Yeah. I'm personally losing interest in the quest and regretting that I began it. Sort of came to that realization all at once when I looked back at the time it took me to take my reputation with Kobolds to level 3, and then looked ahead at the time it would take to get a single Ore.
And if it's never going to be best in show anyway, then holy fuck what is the point?
It's not that it's never best in show. Just that it comes along a bit later than the raid weapons.
I feel like the timing might have been in a little closer in 2.x than in this raid cycle (though I did take a bit of a break in 2.x). A Zeta weapon was as good or better than what you could get from Bahamut. And considering if you were raiding and killing the final boss of that raid tier, you had only one chance at a weapon you could use dropping per week, there were a lot of people, even hardcore raiders who upgraded their relics when the next steps came out.
Having done the grind, it's pretty shit. The only interesting thing about the Relic is the story quest behind it and the looks. It's a bit more personal than raid weapons because of the story going along with the Anima Relics, but that's not saying much.
They had a pretty neat idea with the initial 2.0 Relic and it would have been a bit more engaging if they could create solo duties to break up the monotony of the grind.
The only fun part of Step 3 has been the Coil and EX primal clears and forgetting to taunt the boss off of Sion in Turn 11 and 12.
+2
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
And considering if you were raiding and killing the final boss of that raid tier, you had only one chance at a weapon you could use dropping per week, there were a lot of people, even hardcore raiders who upgraded their relics when the next steps came out.
I think my plan of just leveling the relic to what steps can be done in a few days tops and then upgrading everything else is a fine one.
If it isn't fun to do it isn't worth doing is a mantra that is looming ever larger in my brain as time marches on.
Wouldn't everyone just love it if the dev team put as much effort into the relic weapons as they do the Mandervilles quests?
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
The other part of the issue (and this is something that the dev team has absolutely dropped the ball on) is that the relic was a victim of the Gordias Savage miscalibration. If I'm not mistaken, they said they made step three tougher than they would have, because they set the Gordian weapons to 210, and they refused to give on the "top weapons come from endgame" rule.
For a lot of people the Relic is not worth the effort, and that's fine, it's just one option to get a good weapon each tier. It has the lowest barrier to entry and the lowest skill requirement, so it takes a very long time to compensate.
For a lot of people the weapons from Raiding, or from Extreme Primals will be a better option.
For others those three options may not be worth the time, skill, or party makeups required and they may just wait for those weapons to be more accessible in the future, or just be content with the slightly less powerful tome weaponry.
Not every solution has to work for every player, but having options is good to cover the varying tastes and still remain balanced against the overall increase of power weighted against the effort expended.
Delphinidaes on
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
Also, I am almost done with my Anima but I've also been taking it slower then I strictly could, in part because of work considerations and in part because I was on vacation during part of the time when it first came out.
I only need a few more bones and seeds and I will have my PLD anima.
+1
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
And considering if you were raiding and killing the final boss of that raid tier, you had only one chance at a weapon you could use dropping per week, there were a lot of people, even hardcore raiders who upgraded their relics when the next steps came out.
I think my plan of just leveling the relic to what steps can be done in a few days tops and then upgrading everything else is a fine one.
If it isn't fun to do it isn't worth doing is a mantra that is looming ever larger in my brain as time marches on.
Wouldn't everyone just love it if the dev team put as much effort into the relic weapons as they do the Mandervilles quests?
Oh, yeah, I'm not like, ragging on you for deciding it's not with the effort. I raid, was able to skip the first part of the Anima quest because of my Zeta, and I still didn't even bother to do the "easy" dungeon part to upgrade the relic to i200 even though it would be technically better than I bow I currently have due to secondary stats, because the whole rest of the grind was so depressing.
Posts
Oh really! So I could deck out my retainer in current Eso gear? Sweet.
My retainers are almost qualified to run Thordan EX. They'd probably be better at it than half the player base.
Frond Fatale isn't hard to dodge. Especially when you know it's coming because I warned the group about it twice - once at the beginning, once after wipe 2. Sometimes RNG sucks, but generally you can get out of the floor AOEs. There's really not much else to look for, certainly nothing that should be very troubling. Yet we wiped 4-5 times.
I just don't get it. Especially when the BRD, at least, can do a lot on the move. And everything except Fatale has a relatively long visible telegraph.
Minfillia speculation:
Ooooooh my goodness!
You asked me today if I have been checking the forum lately.
I just got caught up
Congratulations x 1000!
I am happy for the two of you!
no no
What cross-class skills should I be looking to get? I already have Raging Strikes, or whatever the damage buff ARCs get.
Blood for Blood from LNC is a nice damage boost
Raging Strikes
Blood for Blood
Invigorate
Hawk's Eye
Quelling Strikes or Feint
Feint is used as a pseudo-Scathe so you can be doing damage while moving without toggling off Gauss Barrel. However with the current MCH meta which involves Gauss dancing, MCHs have really high mobility so Feint is even less likely to be used as it was already really situational on a BRD. But it's still a DPS increase in those cases where you do get the chance to use it.
Quelling Strikes is a little iffy since you don't get the full benefit out of it since you have to pop so many buffs as part of the opener and the opener has such a long delay before the damage nuke ticks. If you have a tank that's struggling to hold aggro against your phat opener, it's an option...
It just depends. A lot do not look for her telegraph when they are running around and she isn't targetted. Frond has a very active telegraph in that she rises up on her legs (they almost go perfectly straight) and her head has a glow for about 2-3 seconds before disappearing and then frond is cast like a second after that. There are times when I know I don't have her targetted that I'll start watching for it (plus it only really starts cropping up when the bulbs get cast out with their small aoes). So yeah, it isn't hard to dodge but we have quite a few player base that either don't care (healer keeps me up, the explosion to remove seduce won't hurt me, etc) or they don't know when frond will come up and thus aren't looking for it and get hit, or are still new and don't understand mechanics.
At least that's what I have seen running thru there. I've had dps tell me its fine if they get seduced as I'll (healer) will keep them up and I just shake my head since I don't understand why you'd give up 5-10 seconds of no direct dps.
My positioning vs. the group's vs. the arena
My cooldowns
The aggro list
Any ground marked AOEs
The enemy casting bar for things like Frond Fatale
The actual boss is basically in the corner of my vision as I focus on other things to manage the battle. Kind of like how in fighting games, like Street Fighter, you don't really look at your character, but your opponent and the space between.
But, yeah, Belladonna has a pretty obvious pattern. FF won't be cast until she poops out her buddies. Often, she'll do it while everyone is running away from each other to spread out the AOEs anchored on them in order to reduce damage from overlaps, so when you try to re-engage the boss, it hits and you get seduced. It's a little tricky from a human psychology standpoint in that regard (getting punished for rushing back to damage the boss can be a bit of a mental hiccup), but it's certainly not something a group should fall prey to in 5-6 discrete encounters.
I really think it was just a matter of getting saddled with really casual players who have been carried for a lot of their progression, because I've cleared Arboretum several times (I only got to it about 10 days ago) without any trouble until my last attempt. Thankfully, I was able to roulette Pharos Sirius hard with a solid group to get the last of my weekly eso later that night.
That's...that's fine.
Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
Fuck Joe Manchin
Out of combat, R1 cycles through my travel bar (sprint, teleport, return, various mounts) and my target marking/waypoint bar.
I also made a couple of macros for ACN pet summoning that puts that specific pet's abilities on bar 3.
I feel like a friggin' wizard-ninja.
Focus target should be standard practice. Even as a tank.
Focus target the boss, see every single cast they do regardless of what you're targeting. Better yet, put the focus target window in a spot that's within your sight all the time. For me, I have it located in my peripheral vision around the centre of the screen so as soon as I see a cast bar appear, I know something is happening and no matter what major element I'm looking at, it's in the corner of my vision.
Nope. Reality does like to slam the door in his face.
Don't they take a lot longer than anything else to get in this game?
Yeah, but they don't require large chunks of uninterrupted time, just lots of little steps over a long while.
They can take a long time if you do them casually, but if you dive full into them you can typically knock it out in a week or two depending on what is involved.
They are a catch-up mechanic in that if you don't want to/can't do the harder content in the game you can still get access to an equivalently powerful weapon eventually. However since it is a powerful weapon it still requires a lot of effort, just in the form of time investment this time instead of defeating difficult content.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
I actually did kind of like the book steps, since you could see exactly your progress and what you needed to do, and there was a bit of variety in each thing. I know a lot of people hated them.
I mean, I agree about the initial relic. "Get me the instructions and then the ingredients to make this thing on my forge."
Once that is done, everything after just feels like "Go thump your head against a brick wall for a few weeks and then come back."
I mean seriously. Some combination of up to 200 full Alex runs, or 27k law and 27k poetics (over 220 level 50 roulettes), or 1040 beast tribe items?
And all this just to go from step 2 to step 3 in the quest chain.
Knocking it out in a week or two? I am NOT going to run a 50 roulette or a complete Alex 1-4 run 14 times a day for 14 days.
This is bullshit that is not worth my time.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
And if it's never going to be best in show anyway, then holy fuck what is the point?
Dusk Vigil gives ilvl 120 green drops. The relic weapons may be a catch-up mechanic, but it rates a poor second place to doing the content later.
I would still like the Z title, but not enough to really do anything about it.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
There's a new quest being introduced that will only be available to players who have completed a Zeta relic.
I feel like the timing might have been in a little closer in 2.x than in this raid cycle (though I did take a bit of a break in 2.x). A Zeta weapon was as good or better than what you could get from Bahamut. And considering if you were raiding and killing the final boss of that raid tier, you had only one chance at a weapon you could use dropping per week, there were a lot of people, even hardcore raiders who upgraded their relics when the next steps came out.
They had a pretty neat idea with the initial 2.0 Relic and it would have been a bit more engaging if they could create solo duties to break up the monotony of the grind.
The only fun part of Step 3 has been the Coil and EX primal clears and forgetting to taunt the boss off of Sion in Turn 11 and 12.
I think my plan of just leveling the relic to what steps can be done in a few days tops and then upgrading everything else is a fine one.
If it isn't fun to do it isn't worth doing is a mantra that is looming ever larger in my brain as time marches on.
Wouldn't everyone just love it if the dev team put as much effort into the relic weapons as they do the Mandervilles quests?
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
For a lot of people the weapons from Raiding, or from Extreme Primals will be a better option.
For others those three options may not be worth the time, skill, or party makeups required and they may just wait for those weapons to be more accessible in the future, or just be content with the slightly less powerful tome weaponry.
Not every solution has to work for every player, but having options is good to cover the varying tastes and still remain balanced against the overall increase of power weighted against the effort expended.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Only sometimes.
(Looking at you, Hvergelmir)
Nothing.
I only need a few more bones and seeds and I will have my PLD anima.
Some of them look good, like my Culverin gun.
Oh, yeah, I'm not like, ragging on you for deciding it's not with the effort. I raid, was able to skip the first part of the Anima quest because of my Zeta, and I still didn't even bother to do the "easy" dungeon part to upgrade the relic to i200 even though it would be technically better than I bow I currently have due to secondary stats, because the whole rest of the grind was so depressing.