HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited November 2007
Aye, basically the most powerful dagger drop out of Kara, Malchazeen (from Prince), has the same DPS (if I recall) as the S1 dagger, so that gives you an idea of how good these weapons are.
Also, I can't wait for S4, because the S3 daggers are hot.
Hey, theorycrafters, can any of you tell me the DPS increase that sword spec talent gives you?
Right now, as of 2.3 I am planning on mainhanding the S2 Sword (97dps), and offhanding my S2 Dagger (97 dps) and going with Riposte, zero points in Sword Spec.
I was wondering, would it be a dps increase if I picked up an S1 Offhand Sword (for honor @ 91 dps) and instead of speccing into Riposte, put those points into Sword Spec?
I'm wondering if the dps increase would justify it, or be an increase at all. I will miss Riposte, but disarms are going to have diminishing returns anyways.
Having Sword spec can be a massive increase in flat out DPS, not just for raids either, get some lucky procs on that off hand and it can ruin someones day, especially with serrated blades where your white hits are that much harder, Riposte is teh sex but having to put 6 points into it is not.
Yeah, 6 points is a heavy investment for it, but I'm not sure I want to take the DPS loss from replacing my S2 Offhand dagger with an S1 Offhand Sword. I refuse to invest 5 points in sword spec while only wielding 1 sword.
I think what I will try is to invest the 6 into Riposte for now, and see how useful it ends up being in the Arena. If it isn't as amazing as I remember, I will spec out of it once I can find a replacement for my S2 Dagger.
Also, what's a good way of working on my kicking ability. I either don't have energy, or don't react fast enough. Is there a way to manage energy that I'm not aware of, while still maintaining decent dps?
Yeah, managing your energy and CP cycles is an art, and really the only thing that you can do to really work on it is spend more time on your Rogue.
White damage is where most of a Rogues damage comes from, making SnD the most important skill for raiding/5 manning (as i'm sure you know). But it is super important to be able to gauge how long your SnD lasts per CP and how long the mob you are engaging is going to stay alive. Do not pop a 5CP SnD on a mob that is going to be up for 12 seconds, it's a complete waste.
Rupturing over Eviscerating and Envenom is important too, it costs less energy than either, and does more damage (over it's course) than either. It also doesn't blow all your deadly poison charges if you are envenoming, leaving you that much more DPS. Being able to gauge when to use that over the other instants is important as well, because if your Rupture doesn't last it's entire duration, you just wasted a finisher.
As far as kicks go, it just takes some playing with, and even with the most perfect timing ever, you can get bit in the ass by getting unlucky with GCD's. One example is in Mechanar with the Charged Fist ability on one of the mobs, it is a super fast cast and you NEED to get that kick in almost instantly. 90% of the time I can get it, but there's other times where I'm sitting there, staring at the cast bar, and the second I decide to pop an SnD or other finisher, my kick is on GCD and he decides to cast. It's annoying as hell when it happens, but just practicing will help immensely.
Other things like Expose Armor and Garrotte have their uses too, just know when to use them and you should be fine. Practice your SnD finishers to get a feel for how much time you will need so you're not wasting CP's left and right.
Is it ever worth using Envenom/Eviscerate except for when a mob is about to die/you'll have to stop DPSing that mob for whatever reason? I mean, if I have a good 3 minutes of stabstab left, should I just be using Mutilate/Backstab/SS, SnD and Rupture whenever they're about to run out?
Yeah pretty much if the mob is going to be alive > 16 seconds, then use Rupture.
Else, use (insert instant finisher here)
Ah okay. I tried rougeing with BC but sucked at it. The resident good-rogue always yelled at me whenever he saw me Eviscerate but it was such a hard habit to break after PvP and levelling. PRETTY NUMBERS
So, I have a 50 Assassination/Subtlety rogue and am torn about talents. I love daggers, but am wondering if I should go swords for a bit and see how I like it. Currently, I tend to do pretty well in terms of DPS, but there are some pretty nice swords out there, and not so many daggers that I've seen. Especially since I can't seem to find many groups for instance drops (time difference issues mostly, probably followed by me being on Silver Hand, one of the first servers).
At any rate, I'm currently sporting the 48 PvP Scout's Blade and a White Bone Shredder in my offhand, and am wondering if I should go for Mutilate and try to find another offhand dagger, or should I just go ahead and continue up the Subtlety tree for Hemo? I'm planning on getting Deadened Nerves after my last point in Seal Fate and getting more Subtlety talents anyways, but that one point could go to either Hemo or Mutilate with my current talent build idea. What do you guys think?
I'd post my character and talent trees, but I'm at work right now and can't access the sites very well. Thanks for the suggestions/help!
Yeah, managing your energy and CP cycles is an art, and really the only thing that you can do to really work on it is spend more time on your Rogue.
White damage is where most of a Rogues damage comes from, making SnD the most important skill for raiding/5 manning (as i'm sure you know). But it is super important to be able to gauge how long your SnD lasts per CP and how long the mob you are engaging is going to stay alive. Do not pop a 5CP SnD on a mob that is going to be up for 12 seconds, it's a complete waste.
Rupturing over Eviscerating and Envenom is important too, it costs less energy than either, and does more damage (over it's course) than either. It also doesn't blow all your deadly poison charges if you are envenoming, leaving you that much more DPS. Being able to gauge when to use that over the other instants is important as well, because if your Rupture doesn't last it's entire duration, you just wasted a finisher.
As far as kicks go, it just takes some playing with, and even with the most perfect timing ever, you can get bit in the ass by getting unlucky with GCD's. One example is in Mechanar with the Charged Fist ability on one of the mobs, it is a super fast cast and you NEED to get that kick in almost instantly. 90% of the time I can get it, but there's other times where I'm sitting there, staring at the cast bar, and the second I decide to pop an SnD or other finisher, my kick is on GCD and he decides to cast. It's annoying as hell when it happens, but just practicing will help immensely.
Other things like Expose Armor and Garrotte have their uses too, just know when to use them and you should be fine. Practice your SnD finishers to get a feel for how much time you will need so you're not wasting CP's left and right.
Quoted the lot for MFT, it pisses me off when people take Rogue interupts and stuns for granted
"lol run in and stun it"
Ok but how can I get in and get 5 combos on it in less than 2 seconds?
That Mech mob is my acid test for kick timing, I have some where I kick every one but as you say there are times when he is a bitch, I tend to use a 5pt KS on him near the end so I can blow energy on killing him...thank god they are nerfing heroic mech badges though (only 1 from the chest not 1 from each gatekeeper) as I am sick of that being the only heroic people want to do.
If you don't have MoD, a Druid will find you first and rape you. Pretty much nothing you can do at that point. If you have MoD and get the jump on a druid, with interrupts and all it's actually pretty easy to take them down. It's pretty much the same as dealing with other Rogues, if you get the jump, you can win pretty easily. If you don't... well, bend over.
Paladins, pain in the ass. One on one is very doable, but it will take an hour to kill them, and in that time 20 of the opposite faction will come and rape you.
Edit, why the hell are you even asking this? How many years did you play the Rogue class? If you start a Rogue, you better put him on Ravenholdt. Medo will kick your ass if you don't.
So, been doing some research on these Combat Hemo builds everyone is talking about. Apparently, according to theorycrafters, Deadliness will be better than taking Malice.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited November 2007
But what about the PvP, chaser of waves?
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Both of those are ideal for PvP. I still think Crit will be better for me, especially with my absolute shit AP. The more base AP you have, the more deadliness will pull away from Crit, but I just don't think i'd spec into it over crit with less than 1500 base AP.
i'm doing it because a bunch of my friends have alt-itis, and it's a good way to piss off medo
tyrannus on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited November 2007
One of you jolly fucks make a new thread.
This one is near the limit.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
One more thing, the new Hemo seems to make ghostly strike absolutely pointless. I personally wouldn't invest a talent point in it for just a 7 second 15% dodge chance buff when I could be using my +36 damage debuff. I wonder if they will alter it on live?
I'm kind of thinking about this myself, really. I still love it though, and using that in between hemos won't gimp the DPS you gain from the buff too much (you should be able to reapply it quickly enough) while giving you a decent dodge buff that's pretty useful in certain situations. I can't really see where that single point would be better spent as you go down the sub tree, really. I'm hoping they buff ghostly to bet 150% weapon damage and 15% dodge for 40 energy now, although that might be a tad powerful. It'd give people incentive to grab it, though.
In terms of a 0/31/30 build I'd look at something like this. You can replace mace spec with another spec of your choice and ditch imp sprint for weapon expertise to retain that PVE edge, but I rather like the look of this build. I'd love to get riposte now that people won't be immune to it, but I can't see its 5-point linked talent sink as being worth it in a build where you're already strapped for points. What are the exact changes to mace spec again? I forget what's happening to it.
Small side note: I've been trying to get a combat/sub build together for ages, but the points in assassination and hemo's subpar damage as of late made it hard to do. It'll be awesome if this actually becomes viable.
Posts
Also, I can't wait for S4, because the S3 daggers are hot.
Yeah, 6 points is a heavy investment for it, but I'm not sure I want to take the DPS loss from replacing my S2 Offhand dagger with an S1 Offhand Sword. I refuse to invest 5 points in sword spec while only wielding 1 sword.
I think what I will try is to invest the 6 into Riposte for now, and see how useful it ends up being in the Arena. If it isn't as amazing as I remember, I will spec out of it once I can find a replacement for my S2 Dagger.
Also, what's a good way of working on my kicking ability. I either don't have energy, or don't react fast enough. Is there a way to manage energy that I'm not aware of, while still maintaining decent dps?
White damage is where most of a Rogues damage comes from, making SnD the most important skill for raiding/5 manning (as i'm sure you know). But it is super important to be able to gauge how long your SnD lasts per CP and how long the mob you are engaging is going to stay alive. Do not pop a 5CP SnD on a mob that is going to be up for 12 seconds, it's a complete waste.
Rupturing over Eviscerating and Envenom is important too, it costs less energy than either, and does more damage (over it's course) than either. It also doesn't blow all your deadly poison charges if you are envenoming, leaving you that much more DPS. Being able to gauge when to use that over the other instants is important as well, because if your Rupture doesn't last it's entire duration, you just wasted a finisher.
As far as kicks go, it just takes some playing with, and even with the most perfect timing ever, you can get bit in the ass by getting unlucky with GCD's. One example is in Mechanar with the Charged Fist ability on one of the mobs, it is a super fast cast and you NEED to get that kick in almost instantly. 90% of the time I can get it, but there's other times where I'm sitting there, staring at the cast bar, and the second I decide to pop an SnD or other finisher, my kick is on GCD and he decides to cast. It's annoying as hell when it happens, but just practicing will help immensely.
Other things like Expose Armor and Garrotte have their uses too, just know when to use them and you should be fine. Practice your SnD finishers to get a feel for how much time you will need so you're not wasting CP's left and right.
Else, use (insert instant finisher here)
Ah okay. I tried rougeing with BC but sucked at it. The resident good-rogue always yelled at me whenever he saw me Eviscerate but it was such a hard habit to break after PvP and levelling. PRETTY NUMBERS
and Envenom can get some fun crits in certain situations
At any rate, I'm currently sporting the 48 PvP Scout's Blade and a White Bone Shredder in my offhand, and am wondering if I should go for Mutilate and try to find another offhand dagger, or should I just go ahead and continue up the Subtlety tree for Hemo? I'm planning on getting Deadened Nerves after my last point in Seal Fate and getting more Subtlety talents anyways, but that one point could go to either Hemo or Mutilate with my current talent build idea. What do you guys think?
I'd post my character and talent trees, but I'm at work right now and can't access the sites very well. Thanks for the suggestions/help!
Edit: Nevermind. Thought they were blocked.
Talent Build: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhxc0xgowzZZx0x
Character: http://wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Silver+Hand&n=Wyteflame
It also east a stormstrike charge
Quoted the lot for MFT, it pisses me off when people take Rogue interupts and stuns for granted
"lol run in and stun it"
Ok but how can I get in and get 5 combos on it in less than 2 seconds?
That Mech mob is my acid test for kick timing, I have some where I kick every one but as you say there are times when he is a bitch, I tend to use a 5pt KS on him near the end so I can blow energy on killing him...thank god they are nerfing heroic mech badges though (only 1 from the chest not 1 from each gatekeeper) as I am sick of that being the only heroic people want to do.
Heroic Durnhold anyone? "noes mech 4 badges!"
/cry
i am thinking of maybe
maybe
leveling another rogue
Paladins, pain in the ass. One on one is very doable, but it will take an hour to kill them, and in that time 20 of the opposite faction will come and rape you.
Edit, why the hell are you even asking this? How many years did you play the Rogue class? If you start a Rogue, you better put him on Ravenholdt. Medo will kick your ass if you don't.
From what they are saying 0,31,30 > 5,32,24
Cool little calculator you can play with here.
I see how it is.
This one is near the limit.
I'm kind of thinking about this myself, really. I still love it though, and using that in between hemos won't gimp the DPS you gain from the buff too much (you should be able to reapply it quickly enough) while giving you a decent dodge buff that's pretty useful in certain situations. I can't really see where that single point would be better spent as you go down the sub tree, really. I'm hoping they buff ghostly to bet 150% weapon damage and 15% dodge for 40 energy now, although that might be a tad powerful. It'd give people incentive to grab it, though.
In terms of a 0/31/30 build I'd look at something like this. You can replace mace spec with another spec of your choice and ditch imp sprint for weapon expertise to retain that PVE edge, but I rather like the look of this build. I'd love to get riposte now that people won't be immune to it, but I can't see its 5-point linked talent sink as being worth it in a build where you're already strapped for points. What are the exact changes to mace spec again? I forget what's happening to it.
Small side note: I've been trying to get a combat/sub build together for ages, but the points in assassination and hemo's subpar damage as of late made it hard to do. It'll be awesome if this actually becomes viable.
Ghalan - Tauren Druid