Honestly, my primary complaints are, one, how little indication there is for some secrets, leading to me basicaly spending most of my time running against walls and/or trying to dash of faith offscreen where there COULD be a ledge (I'm pretty sure I've lost more health in total to cliffs than to enemies, between the trial and error and how hard to control the chain dash can get on a controller), and two, how unrelentingly BAD the map is, making actually refinding things a huge pain. I got some more keys, but if I want to find where those key doors I found were I'm going to have to rewalk the entire game.
I enjoy the combat and the movement very much, though, so the very fact of playing is still fun. It's not really a hard game (I think the boss that took me most tries was the West one, at something like five attempts or so?), but you can still get jumped and killed by even the smallest enemies if you're not careful, and the combat is very methodical. I just don't think I'm going to bother trying to get all the secrets, because that just seems like it'd be frustrating.
Beat the game! With only like, one key, but oh well. My only complaints are the useless map and the fact that the Western forest boss is about a billion times harder than anything else, including the last boss, but it was fun finally taking him down.
I think the final boss took me the most attempts, mostly because it took a while for me to work out the one trick I need to beat him.
West boss took a handful- once I figured out I just needed to be more aggressive I got him down right away. North boss I struggled with one night but one-shot him the next day after getting some sleep.
The thing I struggled with by far the most was the North 8 module challenge room though, jesus christ that was difficult. The hidden challenge areas were rough as well, but I got them down quicker than the North thing.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I got both dash attack upgrades, just because.
Also, I got the multi dash upgrade, but I still gaven't figured out the timing at all. Like, I can make the number in the dash room go to 2 occasionally, but I don't know why.
random question for those who played the demo prior to the full version
is the demo area reused in the final game?
I watched a playthrough of one demo iteration before buying the game and the area shown in that demo appeared to be an amalgamation of two zones that are in the final game.
I officially have no idea where the last two triangles are in the north. I've been running up and down like an idiot and nothing.
I'm guessing you're missing two of the "outdoor" triangles:
Hints for two of the more hidden triangles —
There's one that is obnoxious because it has no audio cue and requires that you realize there are TWO different indicators for revealing hidden paths on the same small platform.
There's another that involves traversing the far right region of the mountain temple, that I think is accessed using the laser-gun by aiming beyond the screen bounds.
In any case, I went "fuck it" and went to kill the boss. Pretty fun. Killed me... four or five times, I think, pretty much always because I'd try to dodge the stream too soon and ended up making it aim in a different angle, towards where I was. Still, not exactly a big climactic fight or anything, but fun enough.
This game would be basically perfect if the map were improved. The visual map is great, but the "outline/underground" map really needed layers for each floor. One for the overworld, one for 1F of the dungeon, etc.
On the secrets thing: The Division came out recently and did this incredibly well. Secrets are well hidden, but not sadistically so. And after finishing all the missions in an area, secrets are highlighted on the map. In HLD, I think it would be reasonable to reveal the first four triangles on entering a zone; the next four triangles after recovering the first set; and then all the keys/currency/monoliths after clearing the 8-triangle door for the zone.
Combat is really tight, and I liked all the incremental upgrades you can unlock. Bosses felt challenging but fair: most of them require patience, good timing, and good choice of gun/sword attack patterns. They do behave consistently and their attack patterns can be exploited. I can see some of them being frustrating if you didn't choose the right upgrades, though. Chain dash, dash through bullets, and bullet deflection are pretty essential.
Overall the game is beautiful and feels very well designed. I hope the team does well enough financially to keep improving and expanding it.
Combat is really tight, and I liked all the incremental upgrades you can unlock. Bosses felt challenging but fair: most of them require patience, good timing, and good choice of gun/sword attack patterns. They do behave consistently and their attack patterns can be exploited. I can see some of them being frustrating if you didn't choose the right upgrades, though. Chain dash, dash through bullets, and bullet deflection are pretty essential.
Yeah, the chain dash is really a lifesaver. Everything else you can live without until the very end (going for the last boss without bullet reflect is going to take you forever), but the ability to chain two or more dashes without losing that extremely important little second between dashes helps you get enough distance to dodge so much stuff. I think that the West boss could have been considerably difficult if I had not bought the chain dash beforehand.
BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
I know this is asking a bit much, but is there a Let's Play with minimal player chatter? I really suck at these games, so I know I won't likely get very far, but I want to just experience the ambiance instead of some asinine story. Normally I don't much care, but this game is so smooth otherwise, I just want to see that.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
the sword dash (the one you get from the swordsman, NOT the dash trainer--that one is garbo) is extremely important as well, because you are fully invulnerable to enemy contact damage while doing so
you can even do it into the carnivorous plants in the East, though you'll still get knocked down and they won't take damage
bombs, sword dash, and dash chain are probably the only must-haves for most of the game, but some type of projectile deflection (I prefer the sword flavor) is extremely helpful as well
in other news, I'm halfway through my second playthrough (not an NG+, just a second playthrough, because I deleted my other save on accident)
much easier this time around, I think I'll probably wind up with nearly all the collectibles this time
I haven't enjoyed a game this much in a very, very long time
I think I might go and play Bastion again when I'm done with this, actually
Yeah, I actually found the stab dash to be much more useful in general. The sword dash seemed to have a tendency to end too close to the enemy for my liking, and trying to use it ended up with me taking more damage than just dashing in and out and hitting people normally. But the stab dash can deal pretty good damage fast (to the point of oneshotting the 4HP robots in the south if aimed correctly) and even if it doesn't kill it pushes enemies away, giving you time to reposition or laser gun their ass - or you can push them off cliffs for an instant kill.
It's not useful for bosses in the slightest, but for dealing with mobs of normal enemies, it's really great.
On that note, laser gun best gun. Best range and precision with just enough damage to kill most of the most annoying enemies (like those purple frogs) in one shot? Yes please.
So is there a trick to chain dash that I'm just not getting? In the practise room with the controller I had a lot of trouble getting it to work consistently, I think my best run was 15 and getting that started could be tricky. But switching to the keyboard I was able to do it pretty much indefinitely (Got something like 180, don't know if I can be bothered for the 800 reward)
- Having to remember where the locked doors are.
- The game running at only 30fps. Keep the engine and animations at 30 fps, but I have a 144hz monitor and I would like it when the screen moves, not everything become a muddy mess.
RPS did an initial review of this game I find rather baffling. I guess I mostly agree with it. But there is a complaint about the difficulty of the bosses. Which is odd because I find the bosses less difficult than the rest of the game. Some of the rooms full of enemies have taken me a while to clear.
Wow, super bad. The 2nd one is somehow worse. John Walker is hard for me. I pretty much feel about him the way he feels about this game. I miss Kieron Gillen.
edit: this was badly worded and feels like an attack on the guy. When I say Walker, I mean his opinions of games. Probably obvious that's what I mean, but it bears mentioning in the interest of civility. I'm sure he's a delightful person.
MadPen on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
- Having to remember where the locked doors are.
- The game running at only 30fps. Keep the engine and animations at 30 fps, but I have a 144hz monitor and I would like it when the screen moves, not everything become a muddy mess.
I was pretty surprised to find out how low the framerate was and there was no way to change it. There's zero technical reason for the game being able to run at a zillion FPS, and the game felt almost choppy to me at 30 FPS. Not enough to make them unplayable or anything, but definitely enough that I noticed it constantly.
We absolutely value performance on as many systems as possible. We have done everything we could to test on a multitude of systems, but of course there are configurations and outliers that we could not account for.
There's a contentious debate about frame rate these days. I think it comes down to personal opinion and preference on many different games. As a gamer, I very much enjoy games at 60, of course, and feel that some games NEED it to be at their best - modern shooters as the prime example.
I've never had much issue with games at 30, and in fact many of my favorites are locked at that rate: Bloodbourne, Nuclear Throne, Souls games, many Zelda games, Mario 64, Undertale, etc.
Hyper Light plays as intended at 30fps locked, and we feel confident, great about the end result. We realize some may not agree, and some refuse to play games at 30 these days.
We have investigated the possibility of a 60fps option. This is a HUGE endeavor, and would take months (three at minimum) of labour to retool all the systems that are dependent on frame timing, to make major optimizations to the game so it runs on all the same machines it does now. This is no small task for us.
- Having to remember where the locked doors are.
- The game running at only 30fps. Keep the engine and animations at 30 fps, but I have a 144hz monitor and I would like it when the screen moves, not everything become a muddy mess.
I was pretty surprised to find out how low the framerate was and there was no way to change it. There's zero technical reason for the game being able to run at a zillion FPS, and the game felt almost choppy to me at 30 FPS. Not enough to make them unplayable or anything, but definitely enough that I noticed it constantly.
30 FPS feels fine to me. It's not optimal, like I'd rather have 60, right? But it's not unplayable. It's fine, it works.
I have noticed a few areas in game where the framerate chugs a bit, but those have been minimal. Strangely, the Dash Challenge room is one of those.
Also, the dev posted an update a while back on the Kickstarter explaining his choice to lock at 30:
Performance
We absolutely value performance on as many systems as possible. We have done everything we could to test on a multitude of systems, but of course there are configurations and outliers that we could not account for.
There's a contentious debate about frame rate these days. I think it comes down to personal opinion and preference on many different games. As a gamer, I very much enjoy games at 60, of course, and feel that some games NEED it to be at their best - modern shooters as the prime example.
I've never had much issue with games at 30, and in fact many of my favorites are locked at that rate: Bloodbourne, Nuclear Throne, Souls games, many Zelda games, Mario 64, Undertale, etc.
Hyper Light plays as intended at 30fps locked, and we feel confident, great about the end result. We realize some may not agree, and some refuse to play games at 30 these days.
We have investigated the possibility of a 60fps option. This is a HUGE endeavor, and would take months (three at minimum) of labour to retool all the systems that are dependent on frame timing, to make major optimizations to the game so it runs on all the same machines it does now. This is no small task for us.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited April 2016
I'd have to call that simply a bad call on their part, then. The minimum requirements are almost in smartphone territory; choosing to make the game able to run on systems from 2005 over making the framerate as decent as the visuals was not a good call, especially when so many fights make you rely on speed, timing, and being able to pick out your character from a ton of visual noise.
Something like Bloodbourne has the excuse of trying to cram high-end visuals into relatively mediocre console hardware, which is not an issue faced by HLD where the visual design is striking without being a resource-hog. The Zelda games are also pretty forgiving, so clarity in the action isn't nearly as important.
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
It's the new standard, games need to hand hold all the time. The Dark Souls games aren't even difficult, yet it's what they're famous for now.
lolwut
They really aren't, if anything, Demon's Souls had some bullshit parts, but DKS1 and DKS2 are just punishing, but not difficult.
Regarding the 60fps issue, I've read some technical posts that it has to do a lot with how GameMaker works, and making a 2D game run at 60fps on that engine is a huge task, which is in line with the devs saying it would be a huge endeavor.
My main gripe is the camera panning, the game has beautiful sprites and animations, but you can't appreciate them when the game is locked at 30 fps and the camera pans.
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DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
Yeah Nuclear Throne was made in GameMaker too, wasn't it. Definitely a pattern at work there.
It's not a big deal for me though. 60fps would be sweet but 30fps is fine with me too. I would prefer they put effort into making that a super rock solid 30fps.
Yeah I can confirm gamemaker is very tricky to make work with 60fps for detain sorts of games (like HLD or Nuclear Throne). I think it's a disservice to say it was a bad call by them when we don't know the exact details of their development process and just how their internal systems work.
At the end of the day they did what they needed to do in order to get their game working the way they wanted it to work and without extending their development time too long. I think that's a fair call.
It's the new standard, games need to hand hold all the time. The Dark Souls games aren't even difficult, yet it's what they're famous for now.
lolwut
They really aren't, if anything, Demon's Souls had some bullshit parts, but DKS1 and DKS2 are just punishing, but not difficult.
Dark Souls games are absolutely not punishing. You lose basically nothing for dying. That's part of why they can afford to teach you by killing you.
But they do have some pretty legit difficult parts, and they do expect you to play cautiously and always keep your wits about you.
That said, Hyperlight is markedly less difficult than Souls is. As I've said, I don't think there was anything in the content I could play (admittedly I have only done one eight-triangle gate, the West one, because I'm missing two triangles in every other area) that took more than six attempts, while there have been bits in Souls games that have taken me twenty or thirty tries to understand and execute on first contact.
Gripes about lack of handholding and the level of difficulty are amusing. Go play Mega Man or Super Mario Bros. Every boss/zone had a trick to figure out and every level had secrets with no indicators whatsoever. I like having to scratch my head every once in a while or take chances on a boss or secret area.
Eastern Zone, past the 3 key door you can find this, does anyone know how to get over there? I even watched an 'All Eastern Zone secrets' youtube video but he just walks right past it
I'm not crazy right? The body on that platform has the 'I'm lootable' glow to it
*edit
Found it
Had to enter a different dungeon area entirely and then find a wall that was you could walk through
Eastern Zone, past the 3 key door you can find this, does anyone know how to get over there? I even watched an 'All Eastern Zone secrets' youtube video but he just walks right past it
I'm not crazy right? The body on that platform has the 'I'm lootable' glow to it
*edit
Found it
Had to enter a different dungeon area entirely and then find a wall that was you could walk through
That, I learned, is what the 2nd layer of the map is for. It kinda tells you what dungeons are connected to what doors and what you can access while you're in whichever dungeon.
Hoooo man, I just cleared West today. That boss was SOMETHING ELSE, dude. Honestly, it was my favorite boss fight so far. So goddamn intense, but you feel like a badass when you win.
Strats spoilered below:
Name of the game is patience. West boss is incredibly aggressive. He's got a quick two-hit combo (that turns into a three-hit combo later on) and you need to dodge that shit. If you're getting hit by the 2nd/3rd hit then change up where you're dashing away from. Being good at Chain Dashing will help a ton. There's a small window after he finishes his combo where you can ape on him a bit. Just pay attention to his tells, don't get hit by his combo, don't try to hit him during his combo. Shotgun is amazing here, pointblank shots will straight up chunk him. I focused mostly on getting quicky Shotgun blasts in rather than normal melee (unless I was out of ammo).
He'll also occasionally stand still and fire shots at you. This is also a great opportunity to ape on him, just make sure to dodge his shots. He'll also summon swordninja-dudes from the crystals every now and then. They're not too difficult to deal with, pointblank Shotgun should (mostly) kill them. Alternatively you can wait til there's a few up and toss some bombs in.
You can also force him to kill the adds while they're still in the crystals. Just stand next to the crystals and his sword combo will shatter them. I found that it wasn't necessary though, and it made for extra micromanagement that wasn't needed.
Not a huge fan of the weapon you get from him though. I like the Railgun/Shotgun way better.
I made the mistake of going West first, so I did fine up until I got to the boss and had basically just a chain dash and health pouch upgrade...no additional weapons, just my wits.
I had to get him to destroy the minions for me because the minions could just dodge the pistol, and it opened me up for the boss' combo damage. It made the fight a lot easier for me not having to worry about additional dodging. If you wait until his 3rd combo, though, or if he stops to do an AOE next to the minions, his next animation was guaranteed to summon them.
I was able to get the majority of his health off by getting in a quick 2 swipe with the sword after every combo, and then when he did the AOE, I'd pepper him with pistol shots and then build them up again.
It was still a close thing...I had two HP left and when I went in for the last sword swipe, I kept thinking I was about to do the whole thing over again. I'd say the whole fight took 10 tries, but I definitely had to take a break in between those tries, cause I was getting worked up.
Anyone know if you can reflect his blaster shots like normal projectiles? That would have been a life saver if I had bought it ahead of time
Posts
I enjoy the combat and the movement very much, though, so the very fact of playing is still fun. It's not really a hard game (I think the boss that took me most tries was the West one, at something like five attempts or so?), but you can still get jumped and killed by even the smallest enemies if you're not careful, and the combat is very methodical. I just don't think I'm going to bother trying to get all the secrets, because that just seems like it'd be frustrating.
West boss took a handful- once I figured out I just needed to be more aggressive I got him down right away. North boss I struggled with one night but one-shot him the next day after getting some sleep.
The thing I struggled with by far the most was the North 8 module challenge room though, jesus christ that was difficult. The hidden challenge areas were rough as well, but I got them down quicker than the North thing.
Also, I got the multi dash upgrade, but I still gaven't figured out the timing at all. Like, I can make the number in the dash room go to 2 occasionally, but I don't know why.
is the demo area reused in the final game?
I watched a playthrough of one demo iteration before buying the game and the area shown in that demo appeared to be an amalgamation of two zones that are in the final game.
I'm guessing you're missing two of the "outdoor" triangles:
Hints for two of the more hidden triangles —
There's another that involves traversing the far right region of the mountain temple, that I think is accessed using the laser-gun by aiming beyond the screen bounds.
In any case, I went "fuck it" and went to kill the boss. Pretty fun. Killed me... four or five times, I think, pretty much always because I'd try to dodge the stream too soon and ended up making it aim in a different angle, towards where I was. Still, not exactly a big climactic fight or anything, but fun enough.
On the secrets thing: The Division came out recently and did this incredibly well. Secrets are well hidden, but not sadistically so. And after finishing all the missions in an area, secrets are highlighted on the map. In HLD, I think it would be reasonable to reveal the first four triangles on entering a zone; the next four triangles after recovering the first set; and then all the keys/currency/monoliths after clearing the 8-triangle door for the zone.
Combat is really tight, and I liked all the incremental upgrades you can unlock. Bosses felt challenging but fair: most of them require patience, good timing, and good choice of gun/sword attack patterns. They do behave consistently and their attack patterns can be exploited. I can see some of them being frustrating if you didn't choose the right upgrades, though. Chain dash, dash through bullets, and bullet deflection are pretty essential.
Overall the game is beautiful and feels very well designed. I hope the team does well enough financially to keep improving and expanding it.
Yeah, the chain dash is really a lifesaver. Everything else you can live without until the very end (going for the last boss without bullet reflect is going to take you forever), but the ability to chain two or more dashes without losing that extremely important little second between dashes helps you get enough distance to dodge so much stuff. I think that the West boss could have been considerably difficult if I had not bought the chain dash beforehand.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
you can even do it into the carnivorous plants in the East, though you'll still get knocked down and they won't take damage
bombs, sword dash, and dash chain are probably the only must-haves for most of the game, but some type of projectile deflection (I prefer the sword flavor) is extremely helpful as well
in other news, I'm halfway through my second playthrough (not an NG+, just a second playthrough, because I deleted my other save on accident)
much easier this time around, I think I'll probably wind up with nearly all the collectibles this time
I haven't enjoyed a game this much in a very, very long time
I think I might go and play Bastion again when I'm done with this, actually
The whirlwind attack is amazing. Does like 5 damage so you can use it to just wreck bosses and big enemies
It's not useful for bosses in the slightest, but for dealing with mobs of normal enemies, it's really great.
On that note, laser gun best gun. Best range and precision with just enough damage to kill most of the most annoying enemies (like those purple frogs) in one shot? Yes please.
5 damage point blank? yes please. After a while I killed the plant beasts by going dodge-> shotgun -> 1 sword swing
Godspeed, Ironsides.
- Having to remember where the locked doors are.
- The game running at only 30fps. Keep the engine and animations at 30 fps, but I have a 144hz monitor and I would like it when the screen moves, not everything become a muddy mess.
Wow, super bad. The 2nd one is somehow worse. John Walker is hard for me. I pretty much feel about him the way he feels about this game. I miss Kieron Gillen.
edit: this was badly worded and feels like an attack on the guy. When I say Walker, I mean his opinions of games. Probably obvious that's what I mean, but it bears mentioning in the interest of civility. I'm sure he's a delightful person.
I was pretty surprised to find out how low the framerate was and there was no way to change it. There's zero technical reason for the game being able to run at a zillion FPS, and the game felt almost choppy to me at 30 FPS. Not enough to make them unplayable or anything, but definitely enough that I noticed it constantly.
30 FPS feels fine to me. It's not optimal, like I'd rather have 60, right? But it's not unplayable. It's fine, it works.
I have noticed a few areas in game where the framerate chugs a bit, but those have been minimal. Strangely, the Dash Challenge room is one of those.
Also, the dev posted an update a while back on the Kickstarter explaining his choice to lock at 30:
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Something like Bloodbourne has the excuse of trying to cram high-end visuals into relatively mediocre console hardware, which is not an issue faced by HLD where the visual design is striking without being a resource-hog. The Zelda games are also pretty forgiving, so clarity in the action isn't nearly as important.
lolwut
They really aren't, if anything, Demon's Souls had some bullshit parts, but DKS1 and DKS2 are just punishing, but not difficult.
Regarding the 60fps issue, I've read some technical posts that it has to do a lot with how GameMaker works, and making a 2D game run at 60fps on that engine is a huge task, which is in line with the devs saying it would be a huge endeavor.
My main gripe is the camera panning, the game has beautiful sprites and animations, but you can't appreciate them when the game is locked at 30 fps and the camera pans.
It's not a big deal for me though. 60fps would be sweet but 30fps is fine with me too. I would prefer they put effort into making that a super rock solid 30fps.
At the end of the day they did what they needed to do in order to get their game working the way they wanted it to work and without extending their development time too long. I think that's a fair call.
Dark Souls games are absolutely not punishing. You lose basically nothing for dying. That's part of why they can afford to teach you by killing you.
But they do have some pretty legit difficult parts, and they do expect you to play cautiously and always keep your wits about you.
That said, Hyperlight is markedly less difficult than Souls is. As I've said, I don't think there was anything in the content I could play (admittedly I have only done one eight-triangle gate, the West one, because I'm missing two triangles in every other area) that took more than six attempts, while there have been bits in Souls games that have taken me twenty or thirty tries to understand and execute on first contact.
Eastern Zone, past the 3 key door you can find this, does anyone know how to get over there? I even watched an 'All Eastern Zone secrets' youtube video but he just walks right past it
*edit
Found it
That, I learned, is what the 2nd layer of the map is for. It kinda tells you what dungeons are connected to what doors and what you can access while you're in whichever dungeon.
I made the mistake of going West first, so I did fine up until I got to the boss and had basically just a chain dash and health pouch upgrade...no additional weapons, just my wits.
I was able to get the majority of his health off by getting in a quick 2 swipe with the sword after every combo, and then when he did the AOE, I'd pepper him with pistol shots and then build them up again.
It was still a close thing...I had two HP left and when I went in for the last sword swipe, I kept thinking I was about to do the whole thing over again.
Anyone know if you can reflect his blaster shots like normal projectiles? That would have been a life saver if I had bought it ahead of time
Ka-Chung!
Ka-Chung!
In terms of difficulty I think it goes
1. Western
5. Northern
10. Eastern
50. Southern
Southern was ridiculously easy