They're probably gonna use those Ultra-Pro sleeves with the corners sharp enough to cut through a car door.
+2
Options
KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
Owen Turtenwald tweeted asking what if they want to read the back face of a card.
Which might be a valid concern except this is only for the Pro Tour (for now) and the idea that PT players wouldn't know the backsides of the cards(particularly with the little p/t prompts on the front) is just silly.
Owen Turtenwald tweeted asking what if they want to read the back face of a card.
Which might be a valid concern except this is only for the Pro Tour (for now) and the idea that PT players wouldn't know the backsides of the cards(particularly with the little p/t prompts on the front) is just silly.
He's just being contrary because he's fucking Owen Turtenwald. Like p1p1 you open a pack with a Thalia's Lieutenant and a Arlinn Kord you really need to know how much her ult costs? Really? He's a goose.
God dammit Owen. Your appearance on LR had rehabbed my opinion of you a bit. Not a lot, but certainly somewhat. Then you go and do this.
Thing is: it's not even the best arguement against the change! You could argue that it's too late when a whole GP has already been played. You could argue that at such a high level the signaling of knowing DFC picks and passes add a interesting dynamic to the draft. You could argue that most players don't get to draft paper this way thus the PT should reflect that.
Now ALL of those arguments are far outweighed by the arguments FOR the change. I think the change is great. But they are all better arguments than "what if I want to read the back". This is the Pro Tour. You damn well know the cards.
God dammit Owen. Your appearance on LR had rehabbed my opinion of you a bit. Not a lot, but certainly somewhat. Then you go and do this.
Thing is: it's not even the best arguement against the change! You could argue that it's too late when a whole GP has already been played. You could argue that at such a high level the signaling of knowing DFC picks and passes add a interesting dynamic to the draft. You could argue that most players don't get to draft paper this way thus the PT should reflect that.
Now ALL of those arguments are far outweighed by the arguments FOR the change. I think the change is great. But they are all better arguments than "what if I want to read the back". This is the Pro Tour. You damn well know the cards.
I feel like you guys are heavily over exaggerating the pros memorization of every single card in the set. Owen isn't doing anything unconscionable here.
+2
Options
KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
I'm not really sure how that's even a question though, if you're unsure and wanna check the back then you pop that thing out and look
I just really don't get why they have a separate way to draft than the rest of us do.
There are a number of good reasons:
1) as pointed out on Twitter under normal rules seating arrangement can play a huge role in what you know. If they can't get enough round tables and have to use rectangular tables then the people at the ends are at a disadvantage since they physically can't SEE the cards people at the far end from them are taking. Meanwhile someone in the middle can see everything and has a leg up. With the amount on the line at the PT the idea that where you get randomly sat at a table can have that kind of impact is significant.
2) They way they are drafting now (with sleeves) emulates Magic Online more. Why is this important? Because if your not a member of a large testing team capable of renting a house for a week and jamming a million drafts together, the best way to get a bunch of reps in with SOI is: Magic Online. That means that drafting the old (normal) way gives another extra advantage to the Large Testing Teams because they can get FAR more reps with that aspect of the draft intact.
The second one - I suspect - is the real reason Owen is upset and the "what if I want to read the back" is merely a cover. Because, yeah, as Kwoaru said, the answer is obvious.
God dammit Owen. Your appearance on LR had rehabbed my opinion of you a bit. Not a lot, but certainly somewhat. Then you go and do this.
Thing is: it's not even the best arguement against the change! You could argue that it's too late when a whole GP has already been played. You could argue that at such a high level the signaling of knowing DFC picks and passes add a interesting dynamic to the draft. You could argue that most players don't get to draft paper this way thus the PT should reflect that.
Now ALL of those arguments are far outweighed by the arguments FOR the change. I think the change is great. But they are all better arguments than "what if I want to read the back". This is the Pro Tour. You damn well know the cards.
I feel like you guys are heavily over exaggerating the pros memorization of every single card in the set. Owen isn't doing anything unconscionable here.
I expect professional football players to know everyone on the other team and the rules of football. The same goes for professional fucking everythings. If I, as a goddamn casual tryhard have every card in SOI memorized based on the art, I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation for a professional.
God dammit Owen. Your appearance on LR had rehabbed my opinion of you a bit. Not a lot, but certainly somewhat. Then you go and do this.
Thing is: it's not even the best arguement against the change! You could argue that it's too late when a whole GP has already been played. You could argue that at such a high level the signaling of knowing DFC picks and passes add a interesting dynamic to the draft. You could argue that most players don't get to draft paper this way thus the PT should reflect that.
Now ALL of those arguments are far outweighed by the arguments FOR the change. I think the change is great. But they are all better arguments than "what if I want to read the back". This is the Pro Tour. You damn well know the cards.
I feel like you guys are heavily over exaggerating the pros memorization of every single card in the set. Owen isn't doing anything unconscionable here.
I expect professional football players to know everyone on the other team and the rules of football. The same goes for professional fucking everythings. If I, as a goddamn casual tryhard have every card in SOI memorized based on the art, I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation for a professional.
PROFESSIONAL.
I don't think you have every card memorized. People forget sometimes, man.
God dammit Owen. Your appearance on LR had rehabbed my opinion of you a bit. Not a lot, but certainly somewhat. Then you go and do this.
Thing is: it's not even the best arguement against the change! You could argue that it's too late when a whole GP has already been played. You could argue that at such a high level the signaling of knowing DFC picks and passes add a interesting dynamic to the draft. You could argue that most players don't get to draft paper this way thus the PT should reflect that.
Now ALL of those arguments are far outweighed by the arguments FOR the change. I think the change is great. But they are all better arguments than "what if I want to read the back". This is the Pro Tour. You damn well know the cards.
I feel like you guys are heavily over exaggerating the pros memorization of every single card in the set. Owen isn't doing anything unconscionable here.
I expect professional football players to know everyone on the other team and the rules of football. The same goes for professional fucking everythings. If I, as a goddamn casual tryhard have every card in SOI memorized based on the art, I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation for a professional.
PROFESSIONAL.
I don't think you have every card memorized. People forget sometimes, man.
I have basically every playable Magic card memorized. Knowing what the terrible ones do isn't worth the brain space, but I know some of those, too.
So while I may not have every SOI card memorized, I know all of them that would reasonably go into a deck.
I don't know, I think its understandable if they needed to check something like if it's like breakneck rider and they forgot if it's "every attacker" or "every other attacker" that gets the +1/0 and trample.
I just really don't get why they have a separate way to draft than the rest of us do.
There seems to be some indication that they reviewed the draft pods from this weekend (which used rectangular tables) and realized that seat position played a significant role in your success as players had the potential to identify the archetypes each player was in and draft accordingly.
EDIT: Also, y'all are being super-reactionary towards a mundane yet seemingly sincere question about protocol at an event in which even minor infractions can be very costly. I get that Turtenwald can be a smug toad of human, but that tweet is not the sort of thing I would expect folks to got hot and bothered by.
I just really don't get why they have a separate way to draft than the rest of us do.
There seems to be some indication that they reviewed the draft pods from this weekend (which used rectangular tables) and realized that seat position played a significant role in your success as players had the potential to identify the archetypes each player was in and draft accordingly.
Really I think the most solid answer is that it doesn't make sense to have drafts go one way on MTGO and a different way in paper. And they only went the visible route in paper because they didn't have the means to prevent it! Except now they do. So, problem solved?
I just really don't get why they have a separate way to draft than the rest of us do.
There seems to be some indication that they reviewed the draft pods from this weekend (which used rectangular tables) and realized that seat position played a significant role in your success as players had the potential to identify the archetypes each player was in and draft accordingly.
Really I think the most solid answer is that it doesn't make sense to have drafts go one way on MTGO and a different way in paper. And they only went the visible route in paper because they didn't have the means to prevent it! Except now they do. So, problem solved?
Right. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they don't do this for future GPs.
i don't think it's unreasonable to not have perfect memory of what the backside of a DFC does, even if you've been jamming drafts since the set came out, no matter how much someone else may claim that their memory is perfect
that said, that's why this announcement comes in advance, so that pros going to the event know that if there are any DFCs that they might misremember - neck breaker is a great example, because it's super common to have both "every creature" and "every other creature" - they can put in the time ahead of time to make sure they're 100% up on them
I mean, it's 18 cards, and a couple of them are no-holds-barred windmill slams that don't necessitate any reading of the backside. And...4? of them don't do anything on the back.
Alternate theory: Pro players whined about potentially having to announce half their deck because of the DFC draft procedures as they were in INN, where you would show your DFCs around the table and then announce when you took it so people didn't have to look at everyone else's pass
Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
anyone ever played this danger room/battle box format before? it's sort of a curated pseudo-hearthstone thing that sounds pretty fun
So I saw this UWR starfield build.
It feels good when you:
T2 Vessel of volatility
T3 Starfield
T4 Bring back Vessel and Chandra
It also feels really good to be able to hover around 5 enchantments including starfield. Then sac vessel to dodge removal with all your enchantments, then bring it back next turn.
Posts
Which might be a valid concern except this is only for the Pro Tour (for now) and the idea that PT players wouldn't know the backsides of the cards(particularly with the little p/t prompts on the front) is just silly.
He's just being contrary because he's fucking Owen Turtenwald. Like p1p1 you open a pack with a Thalia's Lieutenant and a Arlinn Kord you really need to know how much her ult costs? Really? He's a goose.
Steam | Twitter
This is actually pretty damn insulting
how staggeringly apt
I disagree.
I think Owen is worse than Pablo.
Thing is: it's not even the best arguement against the change! You could argue that it's too late when a whole GP has already been played. You could argue that at such a high level the signaling of knowing DFC picks and passes add a interesting dynamic to the draft. You could argue that most players don't get to draft paper this way thus the PT should reflect that.
Now ALL of those arguments are far outweighed by the arguments FOR the change. I think the change is great. But they are all better arguments than "what if I want to read the back". This is the Pro Tour. You damn well know the cards.
owen never whined about wotc banning someone who committed sexual assault from playing magic, to my knowledge
Steam | Twitter
I feel like you guys are heavily over exaggerating the pros memorization of every single card in the set. Owen isn't doing anything unconscionable here.
well I guess hearthstone makes them look like baby stacks but still
official blizzard tournament support from blizzard is super bad and the hearthstone pro scene is absolutely garbage to get into
also hearthstone regularly has like 25-60k viewers while mtg has like 3k when there isn't a tournament going and lsv or kenji aren't on
Yeah but that prize purse
edit why is there no two second clip of jacob saying "but the prize"
There are a number of good reasons:
1) as pointed out on Twitter under normal rules seating arrangement can play a huge role in what you know. If they can't get enough round tables and have to use rectangular tables then the people at the ends are at a disadvantage since they physically can't SEE the cards people at the far end from them are taking. Meanwhile someone in the middle can see everything and has a leg up. With the amount on the line at the PT the idea that where you get randomly sat at a table can have that kind of impact is significant.
2) They way they are drafting now (with sleeves) emulates Magic Online more. Why is this important? Because if your not a member of a large testing team capable of renting a house for a week and jamming a million drafts together, the best way to get a bunch of reps in with SOI is: Magic Online. That means that drafting the old (normal) way gives another extra advantage to the Large Testing Teams because they can get FAR more reps with that aspect of the draft intact.
The second one - I suspect - is the real reason Owen is upset and the "what if I want to read the back" is merely a cover. Because, yeah, as Kwoaru said, the answer is obvious.
I expect professional football players to know everyone on the other team and the rules of football. The same goes for professional fucking everythings. If I, as a goddamn casual tryhard have every card in SOI memorized based on the art, I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation for a professional.
PROFESSIONAL.
I don't think you have every card memorized. People forget sometimes, man.
I have basically every playable Magic card memorized. Knowing what the terrible ones do isn't worth the brain space, but I know some of those, too.
So while I may not have every SOI card memorized, I know all of them that would reasonably go into a deck.
There seems to be some indication that they reviewed the draft pods from this weekend (which used rectangular tables) and realized that seat position played a significant role in your success as players had the potential to identify the archetypes each player was in and draft accordingly.
EDIT: Also, y'all are being super-reactionary towards a mundane yet seemingly sincere question about protocol at an event in which even minor infractions can be very costly. I get that Turtenwald can be a smug toad of human, but that tweet is not the sort of thing I would expect folks to got hot and bothered by.
Really I think the most solid answer is that it doesn't make sense to have drafts go one way on MTGO and a different way in paper. And they only went the visible route in paper because they didn't have the means to prevent it! Except now they do. So, problem solved?
Right. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they don't do this for future GPs.
that said, that's why this announcement comes in advance, so that pros going to the event know that if there are any DFCs that they might misremember - neck breaker is a great example, because it's super common to have both "every creature" and "every other creature" - they can put in the time ahead of time to make sure they're 100% up on them
A list of things, should you be of the gifting persuasion
it's entirely cuz Finkel bitched about table shape and Helene went 'JESUS CHRIST, FINE'
Play long enough and turn pro and you seem to become a full out baby
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/shadows-over-the-danger-room/
It feels good when you:
T2 Vessel of volatility
T3 Starfield
T4 Bring back Vessel and Chandra
It also feels really good to be able to hover around 5 enchantments including starfield. Then sac vessel to dodge removal with all your enchantments, then bring it back next turn.
ineedmayo.com Eidolon Journal Updated
This was a very 4/20 edition of Magic Story: everyone is suffering from auditory hallucinations, paranoia, and a craving for human flesh.