WTF?! Did cj/Baigan revive LostNinja or was that a lie? Because if they did that's bullshit. The only thing Baigan can revive is his own goddamn snake arms. Edit: I need to stop posting before reading to the end of the thread.
Still, kind of agree with Lost and cj that, combined with the 1 & 2 player revenge kills seems way OP for the mafia.
Quite Possibly.
I'm not the best at balance, and balancing crazy games is harder than balancing sane games. I try and get other sets of eyes on these games, but there is only so much anyone can do.
The mafia had 2 kills, 2 status effects, 3 conditional one time kills.
The village had 1 wildcard, 1 kill, 2 every other day kills, 2 role block, 3 status cures, a seer, 2 guards, 2 corpse seers, 2 +1 votes, 2 one time +1 votes, 1 status effect. And one person who was a backup for the vigs, cures, roleblocks, guard, etc.
Feel free to post roles, I can post the list tomorrow morning when I wake up.
In the meantime, please let me know what you liked/hated so I can do better next time.
Death Seer is a role I did not trust at any moment.
As dude who falsely reveals as mafia in his death in this game, I'd honestly prefer someone to do some other thing
To me, it's obvious that mafia have to be allowed to pretend to be the seer, otherwise any seer claim is completely bulletproof, which is boring for gameplay. And there's also potential for interesting gameplay when a townie fakeclaims seer with the intent to eat a mafia kill while the real seer goes about their job, so random townies should be allowed to do it, too. Where it gets obnoxious is when townies start spamming the seer fakeclaims though, particularly if they're claiming guilty checks on other townies, because that's really working against their win condition - mafia knows the claim is a lie, so they can aim their shots better, and the fakeclaim probably ends with multiple townies getting lynched.
And if the fakeclaim meta goes too far, eventually you end up with that speed game where the seer finds and outs the mafia N1, but the town proceeds to ignore them all game and eventually loses (maybe someone else can find and link it. It's a trainwreck.)
Fry on
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
I didn't want to throw in death millers without a way to figure out what was going on. Of course that got busted open amazingly quickly without any need for the seers, but I didn't see that coming.
Mafia got an unblockable kill in exchange for reviving a villager - we kind of messed that up though by aiming at a statue
Wait, what? @Gizzy Care to explain that one a little more clearly?
Reviving a villager is an excellent manipulation mechanic in and of itself, please tell me you didn't get a free kill for doing it as well.
We were supposed to, it got misdirected.
Frankly, 38th: giving the mafia a revival ability was broken as hell. The village might predict it, but it's really out there. Even with all that firepower, they'd never suspect someone who revived a villager.
At very least it should have a glaringly obvious catch, like 'you were brought back by a dark force'.... or the reviver has to die, or something.
cj iwakura on
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
I don't know what else I could have done to convince people SeGaTai was a baddy. But it wouldn't have mattered in the end because CJ had my complete and total trust. LostNinja's endorsement really cinched it too.
Ardor volunteered to go under the bus, but I was worried that if he did, we'd go to a final day and I might get caught.
Eh you'd have been fine. But not to worry. I'll be extra distrustful of everyone next time. Hell I'm gonna start looking at people in the real world with more suspicion now. The betrayal still stings!!!
You can only ever TRULY trust a seer result. (Even then it could be sketchy if the GM is evil.) It bears repeating, though: you all had dynamite instincts. Just should've suspected my revival claim a little more and I think this game would've been yours.
I don't really blame myself for not suspecting you, because the casual phrasing LN used implying you were his reviver made me think he got actual conformation on who revived him.
Not blaming you either, LN, we both fell for it. But I definitely would have been slightly more suspicious if you had said "CJ claims to be the one who rezzed me, no idea if that's true or not", especially with CJ encouraging us in the PM thread that we should make a proboard because he was having too much trouble keeping track of everything.
Not blaming you either, LN, we both fell for it. But I definitely would have been slightly more suspicious if you had said "CJ claims to be the one who rezzed me, no idea if that's true or not", especially with CJ encouraging us in the PM thread that we should make a proboard because he was having too much trouble keeping track of everything.
Every game a learning experience.
That was actually true. :P That night I had like 30 something emails. AND I was running the mafia proboard. (Now you see why I didn't want to run it, Knuckles? :P)
Not blaming you either, LN, we both fell for it. But I definitely would have been slightly more suspicious if you had said "CJ claims to be the one who rezzed me, no idea if that's true or not", especially with CJ encouraging us in the PM thread that we should make a proboard because he was having too much trouble keeping track of everything.
Every game a learning experience.
That was actually true. :P That night I had like 30 something emails. AND I was running the mafia proboard. (Now you see why I didn't want to run it, Knuckles? :P)
Exactly. If I didn't think you were ironclad, that would have made me suspicious. "Hm, I'm busy and I can follow this conversation, who else is he talking to?"
Don't get me started on the statues. I was all ready to start making a wall of crazy flow charts and diagrams to figure out the hidden meaning behind them, but then I decided that I was just too lazy. But I always had this niggling suspicion that we were missing something with that.
I don't know what else I could have done to convince people SeGaTai was a baddy. But it wouldn't have mattered in the end because CJ had my complete and total trust. LostNinja's endorsement really cinched it too.
Ardor volunteered to go under the bus, but I was worried that if he did, we'd go to a final day and I might get caught.
Eh you'd have been fine. But not to worry. I'll be extra distrustful of everyone next time. Hell I'm gonna start looking at people in the real world with more suspicion now. The betrayal still stings!!!
You can only ever TRULY trust a seer result. (Even then it could be sketchy if the GM is evil.) It bears repeating, though: you all had dynamite instincts. Just should've suspected my revival claim a little more and I think this game would've been yours.
I don't really blame myself for not suspecting you, because the casual phrasing LN used implying you were his reviver made me think he got actual conformation on who revived him.
Not blaming you either, LN, we both fell for it. But I definitely would have been slightly more suspicious if you had said "CJ claims to be the one who rezzed me, no idea if that's true or not", especially with CJ encouraging us in the PM thread that we should make a proboard because he was having too much trouble keeping track of everything.
Every game a learning experience.
Okay, these are getting annoying. Why on earth would I be suspicious that the person claiming to have rezd me didn't when no one else had stepped forward claiming to? I mean if it was Jdark that did it, and he claimed he was the one who did it would that have suddenly made it better?
Edit: also meant to quote H3's comment that's somewhere in the quote tree here to so I wasn't singling you out Raiden.
LostNinja on
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I don't know what else I could have done to convince people SeGaTai was a baddy. But it wouldn't have mattered in the end because CJ had my complete and total trust. LostNinja's endorsement really cinched it too.
Ardor volunteered to go under the bus, but I was worried that if he did, we'd go to a final day and I might get caught.
Eh you'd have been fine. But not to worry. I'll be extra distrustful of everyone next time. Hell I'm gonna start looking at people in the real world with more suspicion now. The betrayal still stings!!!
You can only ever TRULY trust a seer result. (Even then it could be sketchy if the GM is evil.) It bears repeating, though: you all had dynamite instincts. Just should've suspected my revival claim a little more and I think this game would've been yours.
I don't really blame myself for not suspecting you, because the casual phrasing LN used implying you were his reviver made me think he got actual conformation on who revived him.
Not blaming you either, LN, we both fell for it. But I definitely would have been slightly more suspicious if you had said "CJ claims to be the one who rezzed me, no idea if that's true or not", especially with CJ encouraging us in the PM thread that we should make a proboard because he was having too much trouble keeping track of everything.
Every game a learning experience.
Okay, these are getting annoying. Why on earth would I be suspicious that the person claiming to have rezd me didn't when no one else had stepped forward claiming to? I mean if it was Jdark that did it, and he claimed he was the one who did it would that have suddenly made it better?
Almost anyone would've fallen for it, so no sense stressing it. Again, I doubt anyone's gonna fall for this again, and it's a testament to your organization that I still struggled to get the win.
Yeah we all should have discussed the rezzing in more detail in the thread, kinda weird how we just sort of glossed over it. I just couldn't figure out why the mafia would get the rez power, but maybe I would have been more suspicious if someone mentioned there was a boss that heals your party before you fight him in regards to it.
Can I ask what I did wrong this game to land suspicion on me.
A little quieter than you usually are, and your vote placement was a little too perfect. Always being near the tail end of mafia wagons.
I think that's what made me suspicious anyway.
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
thanks for running 38th.
As soon as I died I knew it was cj.
But I was dead.
The 'network' so to speak was terrifyingly not secure. I was talking to both cj & lostninja in PMs rather than the board. I didn't trust martoss like at all. He made some seriously sketchy posts to me.
But whencj said, "who else are you talking to about this?" and then I died...
The 'network' so to speak was terrifyingly not secure. I was talking to both cj & lostninja in PMs rather than the board. I didn't trust martoss like at all. He made some seriously sketchy posts to me.
But whencj said, "who else are you talking to about this?" and then I died...
Well played, cj. Well played.
I figured if anyone was going to suspect me, it would be you. So well played to you too. 8-)
Yeah, the network was just a mishmash of people with similar interests, which is why I'm shocked it held up so well.
I didn't want to throw in death millers without a way to figure out what was going on. Of course that got busted open amazingly quickly without any need for the seers, but I didn't see that coming.
Yo half of the mafia in some game should just collectively decide to come out as death millers.
The 'network' so to speak was terrifyingly not secure. I was talking to both cj & lostninja in PMs rather than the board. I didn't trust martoss like at all. He made some seriously sketchy posts to me.
But whencj said, "who else are you talking to about this?" and then I died...
Well played, cj. Well played.
I figured if anyone was going to suspect me, it would be you. So well played to you too. 8-)
Yeah, the network was just a mishmash of people with similar interests, which is why I'm shocked it held up so well.
honestly with the way the initial "network" was set up between H3, Brody, and Mat, built on trust, hopes, and dreams, we're lucky we only ended up with one mafia infiltrating it. :P
The 'network' so to speak was terrifyingly not secure. I was talking to both cj & lostninja in PMs rather than the board. I didn't trust martoss like at all. He made some seriously sketchy posts to me.
But whencj said, "who else are you talking to about this?" and then I died...
Well played, cj. Well played.
I figured if anyone was going to suspect me, it would be you. So well played to you too. 8-)
Yeah, the network was just a mishmash of people with similar interests, which is why I'm shocked it held up so well.
I mean it was weirdly effective mishmash though. If we hadn't been stedily pinging mafia it would have been more suspicious.
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
and I was messaging LN going all "TRUST NOBODY, EVERYBODY IS LYING"
I swear my paranoia was hitting many high notes in this game.
but games with millers do that.
s'why i went for Gizzy. Her posts flagged her for me, then the seer result. I had to have her voted out because my paranoia had me not trusting the host.
my seer on austin had been on cj. but i changed it. should trust my instincts more.
Also if I was mafia, I could have TOTALLY infiltrated it.
H3 and LN, you both just kind of took me at my word and let me in without even proving it.
When LN requested I roleblock Invictus, that was a legit fuck up not getting the order in in time, but it'd also be a Perfectly Likely Story if I was mafia. I was honestly surprised when I got the proboard invitation.
There was a steam sig here. It's gone now.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
Also, I'd have to go back through the vote records to check, but I'm pretty sure I voted for mafia almost every single night (I think Phyphor was the only non-mafia vote if he really was a monster instead of mafia).
I did better at networking this time though! That said, I also agree with Grunt, why did I get to be in the network?
The revival mechanic. Rubicant(jdarksun) revived LostNinja, then I came forward claiming to be the one who did it. No one contested me, and I was so sure someone would call me on it.
But Jdark was mafia too wasn't he?
That's a really fucking shitty mechanic, basically designed for this to happen.
I kind of have to agree. Once I was in place, it felt like it was impossible to lose. If the seer hadn't been inactive, I would have been done for, but sadly that wasn't the case.
It would have been even more broken had Gizzy gotten revived like she expected. AND jdarksun's extra kill didn't trigger either.
The seer wouldn't have seered you though. Better targets than someone mostly confirmed.
So I guess "revive a villager" didn't turn out to be the downside 38th was expecting haha!
I thought someone would connect the dots with Rubicant healing the party before bringing the pain. Was pretty sure someone in the village suspected me, too. I had to be very selective about who to target.
I discussed that Rubicante might be able to heal, but didn't think he'd be able to revive players as I assumed that was a separate power.
Also, I'll make our proboard viewable for everyone in a bit. Gonna do a final listing of all the votes since I missed days 6 and 7.
and I was messaging LN going all "TRUST NOBODY, EVERYBODY IS LYING"
I swear my paranoia was hitting many high notes in this game.
but games with millers do that.
s'why i went for Gizzy. Her posts flagged her for me, then the seer result. I had to have her voted out because my paranoia had me not trusting the host.
my seer on austin had been on cj. but i changed it. should trust my instincts more.
You asked for are you reliable, are there millers/thralls,etc.
I wanted to say yes you are reliable, as in you don't get random answers or paranoid seer or some such, but I'm not sure how saying you are reliable interacts with thralls/millers.
Also if I was mafia, I could have TOTALLY infiltrated it.
H3 and LN, you both just kind of took me at my word and let me in without even proving it.
When LN requested I roleblock Invictus, that was a legit fuck up not getting the order in in time, but it'd also be a Perfectly Likely Story if I was mafia. I was honestly surprised when I got the proboard invitation.
That's why I sorta started backing off and holding all my conversations off to the side, mostly sharing with CJ (who I thought I could trust), before sharing it on the board.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
I think Gizzy is almost always a village special, so her not being super helpful was an instant red flag, I'm sure.
She was definitely a solid partner in crime. Lot of great calls.
It's... not a great experience to sit there petrified for two days mortally certain Gizzy and jdark are mafia, then die a day after revival because you're pretty sure your only chance to maybe get de-poisoned is not to bring it up until after you're cured.
I was actually excited to come back once I realized we were nowhere near vanilla and I'd probably tripped jdark's special-ometer, but geez.
I don't know what else I could have done to convince people SeGaTai was a baddy. But it wouldn't have mattered in the end because CJ had my complete and total trust. LostNinja's endorsement really cinched it too.
Ardor volunteered to go under the bus, but I was worried that if he did, we'd go to a final day and I might get caught.
Eh you'd have been fine. But not to worry. I'll be extra distrustful of everyone next time. Hell I'm gonna start looking at people in the real world with more suspicion now. The betrayal still stings!!!
You can only ever TRULY trust a seer result. (Even then it could be sketchy if the GM is evil.) It bears repeating, though: you all had dynamite instincts. Just should've suspected my revival claim a little more and I think this game would've been yours.
Did anyone ask why you didn't revive specials? I was very curious about this. Though I was paying cursory attention. I assume the pretense was it was "one time resurrection" ability?
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Thralls are a seer's worst nightmare. I've never really known of an effective counter to that.
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
The 'network' so to speak was terrifyingly not secure. I was talking to both cj & lostninja in PMs rather than the board. I didn't trust martoss like at all. He made some seriously sketchy posts to me.
But whencj said, "who else are you talking to about this?" and then I died...
Well played, cj. Well played.
I figured if anyone was going to suspect me, it would be you. So well played to you too. 8-)
Yeah, the network was just a mishmash of people with similar interests, which is why I'm shocked it held up so well.
honestly with the way the initial "network" was set up between H3, Brody, and Mat, built on trust, hopes, and dreams, we're lucky we only ended up with one mafia infiltrating it. :P
These plucky little softnetworks make games absurdly difficult to balance. Yes, it can all come down in flames if mafia get in, but in the event they don't its basically like 3-5 masons in a group. In a game like this masons with powers. Its not something you'd ever put in a game because that's basically a village mafia.
I don't know what else I could have done to convince people SeGaTai was a baddy. But it wouldn't have mattered in the end because CJ had my complete and total trust. LostNinja's endorsement really cinched it too.
Ardor volunteered to go under the bus, but I was worried that if he did, we'd go to a final day and I might get caught.
Eh you'd have been fine. But not to worry. I'll be extra distrustful of everyone next time. Hell I'm gonna start looking at people in the real world with more suspicion now. The betrayal still stings!!!
You can only ever TRULY trust a seer result. (Even then it could be sketchy if the GM is evil.) It bears repeating, though: you all had dynamite instincts. Just should've suspected my revival claim a little more and I think this game would've been yours.
Did anyone ask why you didn't revive specials? I was very curious about this. Though I was paying cursory attention. I assume the pretense was it was "one time resurrection" ability?
One time revival, it had to be a villager. And no, I wasn't questioned at all. I think LN was just glad to be back and have a reliable contact.
Posts
Quite Possibly.
I'm not the best at balance, and balancing crazy games is harder than balancing sane games. I try and get other sets of eyes on these games, but there is only so much anyone can do.
The mafia had 2 kills, 2 status effects, 3 conditional one time kills.
The village had 1 wildcard, 1 kill, 2 every other day kills, 2 role block, 3 status cures, a seer, 2 guards, 2 corpse seers, 2 +1 votes, 2 one time +1 votes, 1 status effect. And one person who was a backup for the vigs, cures, roleblocks, guard, etc.
Feel free to post roles, I can post the list tomorrow morning when I wake up.
In the meantime, please let me know what you liked/hated so I can do better next time.
Wait, what? @Gizzy Care to explain that one a little more clearly?
Reviving a villager is an excellent manipulation mechanic in and of itself, please tell me you didn't get a free kill for doing it as well.
Death Seer is a role I did not trust at any moment.
As dude who falsely reveals as mafia in his death in this game,
I'd honestly prefer someone to do some other thing
To me, it's obvious that mafia have to be allowed to pretend to be the seer, otherwise any seer claim is completely bulletproof, which is boring for gameplay. And there's also potential for interesting gameplay when a townie fakeclaims seer with the intent to eat a mafia kill while the real seer goes about their job, so random townies should be allowed to do it, too. Where it gets obnoxious is when townies start spamming the seer fakeclaims though, particularly if they're claiming guilty checks on other townies, because that's really working against their win condition - mafia knows the claim is a lie, so they can aim their shots better, and the fakeclaim probably ends with multiple townies getting lynched.
And if the fakeclaim meta goes too far, eventually you end up with that speed game where the seer finds and outs the mafia N1, but the town proceeds to ignore them all game and eventually loses (maybe someone else can find and link it. It's a trainwreck.)
Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906
We were supposed to, it got misdirected.
Frankly, 38th: giving the mafia a revival ability was broken as hell. The village might predict it, but it's really out there. Even with all that firepower, they'd never suspect someone who revived a villager.
At very least it should have a glaringly obvious catch, like 'you were brought back by a dark force'.... or the reviver has to die, or something.
Make Sir Fab a vote bomb in all future games.
I don't really blame myself for not suspecting you, because the casual phrasing LN used implying you were his reviver made me think he got actual conformation on who revived him.
Not blaming you either, LN, we both fell for it. But I definitely would have been slightly more suspicious if you had said "CJ claims to be the one who rezzed me, no idea if that's true or not", especially with CJ encouraging us in the PM thread that we should make a proboard because he was having too much trouble keeping track of everything.
Every game a learning experience.
I had a good time threatening Royal Decree, (Even if I never used it
I might do this every game
That the space whale was a lie? I was expecting a space whale!
That was actually true. :P That night I had like 30 something emails. AND I was running the mafia proboard. (Now you see why I didn't want to run it, Knuckles? :P)
Always trust kime
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Whales fall, everyone dies.
(Lali.)
I tried to please everyone!
Exactly. If I didn't think you were ironclad, that would have made me suspicious. "Hm, I'm busy and I can follow this conversation, who else is he talking to?"
Okay, these are getting annoying. Why on earth would I be suspicious that the person claiming to have rezd me didn't when no one else had stepped forward claiming to? I mean if it was Jdark that did it, and he claimed he was the one who did it would that have suddenly made it better?
Edit: also meant to quote H3's comment that's somewhere in the quote tree here to so I wasn't singling you out Raiden.
Almost anyone would've fallen for it, so no sense stressing it. Again, I doubt anyone's gonna fall for this again, and it's a testament to your organization that I still struggled to get the win.
A little quieter than you usually are, and your vote placement was a little too perfect. Always being near the tail end of mafia wagons.
I think that's what made me suspicious anyway.
As soon as I died I knew it was cj.
But I was dead.
The 'network' so to speak was terrifyingly not secure. I was talking to both cj & lostninja in PMs rather than the board. I didn't trust martoss like at all. He made some seriously sketchy posts to me.
But whencj said, "who else are you talking to about this?" and then I died...
Well played, cj. Well played.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
She was definitely a solid partner in crime. Lot of great calls.
hey guys
kime is my mason!
Confusion will be my epitaph
I figured if anyone was going to suspect me, it would be you. So well played to you too. 8-)
Yeah, the network was just a mishmash of people with similar interests, which is why I'm shocked it held up so well.
Yo half of the mafia in some game should just collectively decide to come out as death millers.
honestly with the way the initial "network" was set up between H3, Brody, and Mat, built on trust, hopes, and dreams, we're lucky we only ended up with one mafia infiltrating it. :P
I mean it was weirdly effective mishmash though. If we hadn't been stedily pinging mafia it would have been more suspicious.
I swear my paranoia was hitting many high notes in this game.
but games with millers do that.
s'why i went for Gizzy. Her posts flagged her for me, then the seer result. I had to have her voted out because my paranoia had me not trusting the host.
my seer on austin had been on cj. but i changed it. should trust my instincts more.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
H3 and LN, you both just kind of took me at my word and let me in without even proving it.
When LN requested I roleblock Invictus, that was a legit fuck up not getting the order in in time, but it'd also be a Perfectly Likely Story if I was mafia. I was honestly surprised when I got the proboard invitation.
I discussed that Rubicante might be able to heal, but didn't think he'd be able to revive players as I assumed that was a separate power.
Also, I'll make our proboard viewable for everyone in a bit. Gonna do a final listing of all the votes since I missed days 6 and 7.
Days 1-3
Day 4
Day 5
Days 6-7
Edit: adding link to proboard. Registration's locked but it's set to viewable by guests.
You asked for are you reliable, are there millers/thralls,etc.
I wanted to say yes you are reliable, as in you don't get random answers or paranoid seer or some such, but I'm not sure how saying you are reliable interacts with thralls/millers.
That's why I sorta started backing off and holding all my conversations off to the side, mostly sharing with CJ (who I thought I could trust), before sharing it on the board.
It's... not a great experience to sit there petrified for two days mortally certain Gizzy and jdark are mafia, then die a day after revival because you're pretty sure your only chance to maybe get de-poisoned is not to bring it up until after you're cured.
I was actually excited to come back once I realized we were nowhere near vanilla and I'd probably tripped jdark's special-ometer, but geez.
Did anyone ask why you didn't revive specials? I was very curious about this. Though I was paying cursory attention. I assume the pretense was it was "one time resurrection" ability?
These plucky little softnetworks make games absurdly difficult to balance. Yes, it can all come down in flames if mafia get in, but in the event they don't its basically like 3-5 masons in a group. In a game like this masons with powers. Its not something you'd ever put in a game because that's basically a village mafia.
One time revival, it had to be a villager. And no, I wasn't questioned at all. I think LN was just glad to be back and have a reliable contact.