Deckbuilding is as much of a skill as playing is. Most people are probably better off netdecking tbh
You'll never learn how to build a deck if you don't just go for it, and you'll never be as good as people that can build a good deck themselves if you only ever netdeck.
Netdecking basically means you might rank up, but you probably won't improve much at the game.
I think it's fine for new players, but it just results in a lot of players who take a deck and then play a matchup HILARIOUSLY poorly. Like the Chakki Control Warrior I just faced who use a 6 attack Gorehowl on an Acolyte of Pain (that I played specifically to see if he would do that) and then played Harrison when I had no weapon equipped.
A netdeck that you don't understand is basically as useful as a deck you made by randomly throwing cards together, so if you're going to netdeck you should watch a lot of videos of people playing and explaining the deck. If you want to learn by playing, try making your own deck, or at least making a few mods to a netdeck so you start to get a feel for how deckbuilding works.
edit: Like, I'm not morally opposed to netdecking or anything, it doesn't upset me. I just don't think it's a useful way to improve at the game, and once you get to higher ranks your reduced understanding of the decks and matchups will be punished and you'll cap out at a lower ceiling than someone who practiced deckbuilding and what cards are important when and why.
I completely and utterly disagree with this. I mean, I only play net decks and I hit a minimum of rank 5 every month. I've gotten legend. Maybe someone that makes their own deck will have a headstart, but I play my deck of choice for hundreds of games. I absolutely know how to play those decks.
Deck building is a skill, but it's a completely different skill than playing.
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Before this patch, the last time I played midrange Shaman was pre-Naxx. The reason I probably prefer Xixo's list is because it plays more like the traditional list (grind em out and trade up until you've got some burst). If I played 300 games of Loyan's list I might understand it better.
Dog is coaching Sjow at Miracle rogue, he's top 50 legend on stream right now
Nice I gotta remember to catch this vod
Which stream? Just sjows?
I would also like a link.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited May 2016
Man every Shaman player I'm against is some kind of god, I've never seen a group of players draw so consistently perfectly. It's kind of unreal.
edit: Not salt, really just marveling at how far outside the statistical norm they are. Something like 70% of the games are turn 5 Doomhammer into Rockbiter + burst into Bloodlust other Rockbiter, it's nuts.
3cl1ps3 on
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited May 2016
@DasUberEdward it should be at twitch.tv/sjow in the most recent vod I'd think. dog is streaming or I'd check right now
Before this patch, the last time I played midrange Shaman was pre-Naxx. The reason I probably prefer Xixo's list is because it plays more like the traditional list (grind em out and trade up until you've got some burst). If I played 300 games of Loyan's list I might understand it better.
I think midrange is the better deck now. plenty of decks I've played feel like they can survive to turn the corner against aggro now where as midrange is just so good. there's room for bloodlust and doomhammer still and you're obviously playing rockbiter but you gear the deck differently. I think xixo's is totem focused? the one I'm playing isn't but I should play some with the totem one and see how it compares.
edit2 - since there was talk about him before, I wanna say I think variann is one of the cards that is most improved by the changes around him.
Man every Shaman player I'm against is some kind of god, I've never seen a group of players draw so consistently perfectly. It's kind of unreal.
edit: Not salt, really just marveling at how far outside the statistical norm they are. Something like 70% of the games are turn 5 Doomhammer into Rockbiter + burst into Bloodlust other Rockbiter, it's nuts.
You're always going to die one way or the other, sadly. Either they curve out perfectly and go Trogg into Golem into Golem, or Totemic hits the perfect totem, or they draw rockbiter + burst.
Tempo/Control warrior is the only class that I've seen consistently able to put up a fight. That's mostly just due to them have similarly equal bullshit with execute and battle rage.
I swear 9 out of the last 10 Totemics I've seen played have given my opponent a Golem.
Between that and Doomhammer bullshit I'm about ready for Shaman to become a non-Thing again.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
woooah lost 3 ranks today. too much deck jumping I think but I can't help it they're all lots of fun.
I played enough miracle rogue to expose just how bad I am at playing it. switching to the list sjow was playing in the vod (dog's list, has a leeroy) so maybe that'll help
not particularly tilted, not feeling like I can't win but things have gone the other way a whole bunch
Druid, sad state?
After it has recieved Living Roots, Raven Idol, Dark arakkoa (so good that you play it outside C'thun decks), Fandral Staghelm and Mark of Y'shaarj in the last two updates?
Druid just doesn't have the FoN+Savage Roar combo, and we always knew that combo was OP.
I think maybe you don't play much druid. Druid has lost FoN + Savage Roar, deathrattles (which were a big reason Savage Roar was such a problem), +2 cost on its only removal in BGH, Keeper of the Grove (the flexibility is not at all worth the stat hit), Ancient of Lore (losing 1 card draw is huge).
It has poor removal, poor reach, poor board clear, and smaller bodies than shaman.
I mean it's tricky
It's definitely true that midrange druid got skewered (for good reason) but there are multiple archetypes that feel strong to play despite that, and some of the new tools are straight disgusting
The whole "you must not play this class much" argument is a little tired imo so maybe that just rubbed me the wrong way? Idk
Fandral is v. cool, but I don't think a conditional 4 mana 4/10 or 6 mana tazdingo qualify as disgusting. If you disagree I'm happy to hear why.
Yay. Got my rank 15 for the month already. Had a surprising streak with my half-assed C'Thun/control priest that's missing various key pieces. My last game I ended up shuffling at least 5 maps to the golden monkey into my deck. Ran a control warrior out of cards. Getting to Rend his second C'Thun felt good.
The monkey is fun when you actually get good legendaries.
Deckbuilding is as much of a skill as playing is. Most people are probably better off netdecking tbh
You'll never learn how to build a deck if you don't just go for it, and you'll never be as good as people that can build a good deck themselves if you only ever netdeck.
Netdecking basically means you might rank up, but you probably won't improve much at the game.
I think it's fine for new players, but it just results in a lot of players who take a deck and then play a matchup HILARIOUSLY poorly. Like the Chakki Control Warrior I just faced who use a 6 attack Gorehowl on an Acolyte of Pain (that I played specifically to see if he would do that) and then played Harrison when I had no weapon equipped.
A netdeck that you don't understand is basically as useful as a deck you made by randomly throwing cards together, so if you're going to netdeck you should watch a lot of videos of people playing and explaining the deck. If you want to learn by playing, try making your own deck, or at least making a few mods to a netdeck so you start to get a feel for how deckbuilding works.
edit: Like, I'm not morally opposed to netdecking or anything, it doesn't upset me. I just don't think it's a useful way to improve at the game, and once you get to higher ranks your reduced understanding of the decks and matchups will be punished and you'll cap out at a lower ceiling than someone who practiced deckbuilding and what cards are important when and why.
Even pro Magic the Gathering teams playing at the championships usually have only a few of their members actually making decks whole cloth during an expansion cycle. And even they sometimes have to scrap that idea and use a deck type designed by someone else if the meta shifts towards favoring that other deck.
I think I've decided to stick to Zoo for the rest of the season. I feel it's favored versus the other fast decks like Shaman, Tempo Mage, and Hunter and although control matchups leave me terrified of board wipes sometimes they just don't have enough/at the right time. I'm testing out the Crazed Alchemist tech from Dreamhack this weekend as well, which let me beat both Freeze Mages I played tonight and allows me to 'heal' Darkshire Councilman.
This list but Kokron elite for Harrison Jones - I only saw 2 other warriors at rank 5, one pirate, one dragon. Kokron definitely got me within lethal a few games, but if you see a lot of shamans it makes sense - most the shamans I faced were midrange-bloodlust or for aggro I was able to get enough armor on armorsmith - WW plays
From what I can tell they can play a considerable higher number of spells than mage?
At least, Miracle Rogue sure can, and has way better cycling to actually draw Yogg and is actually not a bad deck right now.
Well made it to rank 20 while leveling my guys. Stuff is hard now. These basic decks don't hold a candle to people that have more card options available. Definitely learning to redo my decks with cards that have follow on effects.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Well made it to rank 20 while leveling my guys. Stuff is hard now. These basic decks don't hold a candle to people that have more card options available. Definitely learning to redo my decks with cards that have follow on effects.
It can be easier to compete in Arena early on collection-wise provided you know a good card when you see it. If you're used to draft logic you'll be ok.
With Cabalists tomb Mage may actually run more spells - Yogg mage is still trying to win off antonidas value and Yogg is the hail mary - suppose rogue would do the same - though I feel like miracle rogue is trying to finish by turn 10 - usually have drawn the whole deck by that point.
Took a few games but lived the dream - Paladin plays Nzoth to fill his board with nasty shit - play Yogg, first card is brawl and whatever his sylv stole died quick - I do understand now that through random draw cards it will be very easy to fatigue yourself playing Yogg
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Nice I gotta remember to catch this vod
Which stream? Just sjows?
Yeah
I'm learning a lot. Like pretty shocked how often they use the coin for tempo plays. Or I guess anti-tempo plays to put it more accurately.
I completely and utterly disagree with this. I mean, I only play net decks and I hit a minimum of rank 5 every month. I've gotten legend. Maybe someone that makes their own deck will have a headstart, but I play my deck of choice for hundreds of games. I absolutely know how to play those decks.
Deck building is a skill, but it's a completely different skill than playing.
Nintendo Network ID - PirateLuigi 3DS: 3136-6586-7691
G&T Grass Type Pokemon Gym Leader, In-Game Name: Dan
I would also like a link.
edit: Not salt, really just marveling at how far outside the statistical norm they are. Something like 70% of the games are turn 5 Doomhammer into Rockbiter + burst into Bloodlust other Rockbiter, it's nuts.
I think midrange is the better deck now. plenty of decks I've played feel like they can survive to turn the corner against aggro now where as midrange is just so good. there's room for bloodlust and doomhammer still and you're obviously playing rockbiter but you gear the deck differently. I think xixo's is totem focused? the one I'm playing isn't but I should play some with the totem one and see how it compares.
edit2 - since there was talk about him before, I wanna say I think variann is one of the cards that is most improved by the changes around him.
nothing sticks!
Yeah it's been in every tempo mage I've faced. Cabalist's Tome is becoming quite popular as well.
Yknow I was contemplating making a Standard Secrets Paladin list, actually.
Cool to see Dogger playing it tho!
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
he actually won that game because the druid's two proactive plays that game were fandral (eaten by kings) and cenarius
You're always going to die one way or the other, sadly. Either they curve out perfectly and go Trogg into Golem into Golem, or Totemic hits the perfect totem, or they draw rockbiter + burst.
Tempo/Control warrior is the only class that I've seen consistently able to put up a fight. That's mostly just due to them have similarly equal bullshit with execute and battle rage.
Between that and Doomhammer bullshit I'm about ready for Shaman to become a non-Thing again.
I played enough miracle rogue to expose just how bad I am at playing it. switching to the list sjow was playing in the vod (dog's list, has a leeroy) so maybe that'll help
not particularly tilted, not feeling like I can't win but things have gone the other way a whole bunch
What deck is this?! That sounds super close to my control pally I've been playing for a long time. I haven't seen any other deck run Eadric...
the question is miracle rogue or maly rogue. . .
Nzoth pally runs him.
Fandral is v. cool, but I don't think a conditional 4 mana 4/10 or 6 mana tazdingo qualify as disgusting. If you disagree I'm happy to hear why.
The monkey is fun when you actually get good legendaries.
Even pro Magic the Gathering teams playing at the championships usually have only a few of their members actually making decks whole cloth during an expansion cycle. And even they sometimes have to scrap that idea and use a deck type designed by someone else if the meta shifts towards favoring that other deck.
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MALYGOD
THIS
IS
MA-GIC
but tomb pillager sure is an expensive card.
And of course:
Now to play nothing but Yogg mage and enjoy the chaos
Gratz! Wich list are you running? Have seen a few different ones, just curious
day9?!?!?!
Xaril is great.
hearthpwn.com/decks/521851-tempo-midrange-warrior-rank-3-legend-multiple-top
This list but Kokron elite for Harrison Jones - I only saw 2 other warriors at rank 5, one pirate, one dragon. Kokron definitely got me within lethal a few games, but if you see a lot of shamans it makes sense - most the shamans I faced were midrange-bloodlust or for aggro I was able to get enough armor on armorsmith - WW plays
Buuuut if I play journey below I have a pretty good chance at picking him up.
From what I can tell they can play a considerable higher number of spells than mage?
At least, Miracle Rogue sure can, and has way better cycling to actually draw Yogg and is actually not a bad deck right now.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
It can be easier to compete in Arena early on collection-wise provided you know a good card when you see it. If you're used to draft logic you'll be ok.
Took a few games but lived the dream - Paladin plays Nzoth to fill his board with nasty shit - play Yogg, first card is brawl and whatever his sylv stole died quick - I do understand now that through random draw cards it will be very easy to fatigue yourself playing Yogg
And then you have two!