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Overwatch: Kawaii Noon

19495969799

Posts

  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    You have to go outside the game to even find your win rate

  • TynnanTynnan seldom correct, never unsure Registered User regular
    Maddoc wrote: »
    You have to go outside the game to even find your win rate

    The statistics tab in your career profile displays your win and loss totals.

  • HawkstoneHawkstone Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things. Somewhere outside of BarstowRegistered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    The hardest carry in the game is still probably widowmaker.

    I mean, it doesn't really matter if your team is pretty bad if the enemy team is dead nearly the entire match.

    Yeah...I can see this, especially on defense. I am a very middle of the road sniper, but I have found hiding spots on occasion where I could keep the payload stuck all by myself.

    Inside of a dog...it's too dark to read.
  • HawkstoneHawkstone Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things. Somewhere outside of BarstowRegistered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    PSN being playstation network so consoles, right?

    Yeah, really good snipers are much fewer and further between on consoles.

    I imagine for that rare console sniper prodigy though she still wrecks shop.

    But yeah, especially now with patches console and PC Overwatch may as well be different games, which always makes the conversations in this thread about game balance and class counters and the like interesting.

    I don't even think it takes a prodigy...like I said I ain't great. It is more situational though. It is about the right placement and set up.

    Inside of a dog...it's too dark to read.
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    Tynnan wrote: »
    Maddoc wrote: »
    You have to go outside the game to even find your win rate

    The statistics tab in your career profile displays your win and loss totals.

    Which is...uh...um, outside the actual game. You know, the game where the teams are competing against each other. You can't see your win rate there. Boom, technically correct!

    Silliness aside, I'm hearing rumors that we might get the competitive system today. I know their target was the end of June, but it seems awfully quick, not that I would mind.

  • SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    edited June 2016
    When the play of the game features a SimBen playing as Reaper teleporting right into the face of a turreted Bastion and getting instantly mowed down

    and the entire chat erupts in laughter

    all you can say is "I was aiming behind him" :(

    SimBen on
    sig.gif
  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    PSN being playstation network so consoles, right?

    Yeah, really good snipers are much fewer and further between on consoles.

    I imagine for that rare console sniper prodigy though she still wrecks shop.

    But yeah, especially now with patches console and PC Overwatch may as well be different games, which always makes the conversations in this thread about game balance and class counters and the like interesting.

    Yeah I could be wrong and have zero seconds played on PC but I still suspect Torb will need a nerf on PC too.

    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters | Amazon Wishlist
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    I actually didn't realize it showed wins and losses in there, huh

    Anyway, it's counterintuitive but what really matters is the number you can't actually see, so just try to do as well as you can

  • RawrBearRawrBear Registered User regular
    tyrannus wrote: »
    Symmetra is more like a win harder than a carry because you usually should switch after you fuck up the first checkpoint

    Usually I'd rather win the match.

  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    From my console experience their are good Widows and Hanzos but they're always on the other team.

    I get stuck with the ones who plink uselessly at Reinhardt's shield as we get overran.

  • tyrannustyrannus i am not fat Registered User regular
    RawrBear wrote: »
    tyrannus wrote: »
    Symmetra is more like a win harder than a carry because you usually should switch after you fuck up the first checkpoint

    Usually I'd rather win the match.

    A full stop on the first point would happen because of a good comp and coordination with the teleporter acting as insurance. If you die before you have the teleporter up it's a big error

  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    PSN being playstation network so consoles, right?

    Yeah, really good snipers are much fewer and further between on consoles.

    I imagine for that rare console sniper prodigy though she still wrecks shop.

    But yeah, especially now with patches console and PC Overwatch may as well be different games, which always makes the conversations in this thread about game balance and class counters and the like interesting.

    Yeah I could be wrong and have zero seconds played on PC but I still suspect Torb will need a nerf on PC too.

    I'm not sure, to be honest, on PC.

    I've ran into more Torb spam strats on PC lately but as long as I am coordinating with friends we crush them no problem. So it's not super strong or anything. On the other hand, the Torb spam team needs to put in very little effort to make a solid defense while the team countering them has to put a lot of work and coordination into defeating it, so, that is a little out of whack.

    Also Torb spam isn't particularly fun or interesting to play against, but, I'm not sure how you balance around that.

  • DrDinosaurDrDinosaur Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    PSN being playstation network so consoles, right?

    Yeah, really good snipers are much fewer and further between on consoles.

    I imagine for that rare console sniper prodigy though she still wrecks shop.

    But yeah, especially now with patches console and PC Overwatch may as well be different games, which always makes the conversations in this thread about game balance and class counters and the like interesting.

    Yeah I could be wrong and have zero seconds played on PC but I still suspect Torb will need a nerf on PC too.

    I'm not sure, to be honest, on PC.

    I've ran into more Torb spam strats on PC lately but as long as I am coordinating with friends we crush them no problem. So it's not super strong or anything. On the other hand, the Torb spam team needs to put in very little effort to make a solid defense while the team countering them has to put a lot of work and coordination into defeating it, so, that is a little out of whack.

    Also Torb spam isn't particularly fun or interesting to play against, but, I'm not sure how you balance around that.

    Maybe only starting the turret cooldown once his current one is destroyed? Then add an altfire to his hammer that deconstructs his current turret to enable him to place a new once if necessary.

  • DaypigeonDaypigeon Registered User regular
    roboracist dwarf guy has one of the highest win rates, apparently

    i would say if anything maybe he could use a more obvious range dropoff on his turrets, i get the feeling snipers often don't really understand that they're a counter to those things

  • crwthcrwth THAT'S IT Registered User regular
    i have had exactly one good kill as widowmaker

    which is good enough for me since im trash at sniping

    EzUAYcn.png
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    DrDinosaur wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    PSN being playstation network so consoles, right?

    Yeah, really good snipers are much fewer and further between on consoles.

    I imagine for that rare console sniper prodigy though she still wrecks shop.

    But yeah, especially now with patches console and PC Overwatch may as well be different games, which always makes the conversations in this thread about game balance and class counters and the like interesting.

    Yeah I could be wrong and have zero seconds played on PC but I still suspect Torb will need a nerf on PC too.

    I'm not sure, to be honest, on PC.

    I've ran into more Torb spam strats on PC lately but as long as I am coordinating with friends we crush them no problem. So it's not super strong or anything. On the other hand, the Torb spam team needs to put in very little effort to make a solid defense while the team countering them has to put a lot of work and coordination into defeating it, so, that is a little out of whack.

    Also Torb spam isn't particularly fun or interesting to play against, but, I'm not sure how you balance around that.

    Maybe only starting the turret cooldown once his current one is destroyed? Then add an altfire to his hammer that deconstructs his current turret to enable him to place a new once if necessary.

    I think that sounds like a good tweak. I think one of the most unfun things about fighting a Torb is how insignificant killing of his turrets is, cause he just builds one again right away. Especially annoying when fighting 5 Torbs because he can just fall back a little bit to somewhere guarded by other turrets and builds. Turns the whole affair into a slog.

  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    I don't think of myself as a very good sniper of widow maker has my best win rate and my best k:d

  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    I would like it so sitting back and camping the turreu wasn't a viable strategy and you had to be a bit more active as Torb.

    Not sure how to achieve that though.

  • RawrBearRawrBear Registered User regular

    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    PSN being playstation network so consoles, right?

    Yeah, really good snipers are much fewer and further between on consoles.

    I imagine for that rare console sniper prodigy though she still wrecks shop.

    But yeah, especially now with patches console and PC Overwatch may as well be different games, which always makes the conversations in this thread about game balance and class counters and the like interesting.

    Yeah I could be wrong and have zero seconds played on PC but I still suspect Torb will need a nerf on PC too.

    I'm not sure, to be honest, on PC.

    I've ran into more Torb spam strats on PC lately but as long as I am coordinating with friends we crush them no problem. So it's not super strong or anything. On the other hand, the Torb spam team needs to put in very little effort to make a solid defense while the team countering them has to put a lot of work and coordination into defeating it, so, that is a little out of whack.

    Also Torb spam isn't particularly fun or interesting to play against, but, I'm not sure how you balance around that.

    Yeah I super agree. There's definitely a weird thing where like, a giant pile of automatic turrets raise your base team coordination/skill up to a certain amount for free cause you dropped an auto aiming turret. If the other team can't pass that bar they can't win.... but the torb team didn't really need to do anything to set that bar.

    As far as high win rates for Torb goes I wonder how much of that is also his armor. It's generally really good, but on shield characters it becomes absolutely insane.

    He's also got the Sym thing going on where like, you have to deal with the turret, but even when that's down Torb himself is a solid character with a decent gun, and even when he's down the team is still benefiting from his armor drops while he re-spawns so it's very hard to remove his influence from the battlefield.

  • NullzoneNullzone Registered User regular
    Huh, it didn't even occur to me that my typical affinity for sniper characters has been with a keyboard/mouse and I'm playing Overwatch on XB1

    Suddenly I don't feel so bad about doing less good with her

  • davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2016
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I would like it so sitting back and camping the turreu wasn't a viable strategy and you had to be a bit more active as Torb.

    Not sure how to achieve that though.

    I had an idea where Torb would have to go collect scrap and bring it back to the turret to keep it from deteriorating over time.

    davidsdurions on
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I would like it so sitting back and camping the turreu wasn't a viable strategy and you had to be a bit more active as Torb.

    Not sure how to achieve that though.

    I think active Torb is much better than passive Torb. He's durable as heck, especially with his armor, and his right click hits like a truck.

  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I would like it so sitting back and camping the turreu wasn't a viable strategy and you had to be a bit more active as Torb.

    Not sure how to achieve that though.

    The turret takes an additional 20% damage if Torb is within 10 yards of it?

  • UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I would like it so sitting back and camping the turreu wasn't a viable strategy and you had to be a bit more active as Torb.

    Not sure how to achieve that though.

    I had an idea where Torb would have to go collect scrap and bring it back to the turret to keep it from deteriorating over time.

    or just require scrap to repair it

  • RawrBearRawrBear Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I would like it so sitting back and camping the turreu wasn't a viable strategy and you had to be a bit more active as Torb.

    Not sure how to achieve that though.

    I think active Torb is much better than passive Torb. He's durable as heck, especially with his armor, and his right click hits like a truck.

    Yeah I think he's almost better being off somewhere else. He can't repair, but he can add more to the firefight, and he's less likely to eat collateral damage being fired at his turret and also die.

  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I would like it so sitting back and camping the turreu wasn't a viable strategy and you had to be a bit more active as Torb.

    Not sure how to achieve that though.

    I had an idea where Torb would have to go collect scrap and bring it back to the turret to keep it from deteriorating over time.

    or just require scrap to repair it
    Out of these two options I would definitely prefer that

    Having turrets die over time instantly make me stop playing Torb as the best part of him is setting up your turret and then going hunting with your surprisingly effective gun

    CYpGAPn.png
  • davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    That's a fine compromise from my strict anti turret position. I'll allow it.

  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I would like it so sitting back and camping the turreu wasn't a viable strategy and you had to be a bit more active as Torb.

    Not sure how to achieve that though.

    I think active Torb is much better than passive Torb. He's durable as heck, especially with his armor, and his right click hits like a truck.

    Hell, his left-click hits like a somewhat smaller truck.

    steam_sig.png
  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    One of my favorite things to do as Torb is line up the perfect headshot for the Sniper's perch attack entrance for King's Row and fire off a volley as soon as the doors open

    I've killed a whole bunch of Widowmakers and Hanzos as soon as the match started and it is great every single time

    CYpGAPn.png
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Torb used to require scrap for his turret, and even being able to passively upgrade his turret to level 3 he was still the worst hero in the game because as soon as his initial turret died he was 100% superfucked the rest of the game.

    Camping your turret is already less effective than getting out and shooting rivets into people because active Torb gets Molten Core charged up much faster.

    I've had games where I never have to actively repair my turret at all outside of popping MC when it's taking damage

  • ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    I think torbjorn is fine on PC but if I were to change him I'd reduce his armor drops to 50 hp

    he's fine right now and it's actually already best to play him actively

    camping your turret is basically depriving your team of your rivet gun

  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Torbjorn is practically a short Hanzo with a backup shotgun

  • HawkstoneHawkstone Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things. Somewhere outside of BarstowRegistered User regular
    RawrBear wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    PSN being playstation network so consoles, right?

    Yeah, really good snipers are much fewer and further between on consoles.

    I imagine for that rare console sniper prodigy though she still wrecks shop.

    But yeah, especially now with patches console and PC Overwatch may as well be different games, which always makes the conversations in this thread about game balance and class counters and the like interesting.

    Yeah I could be wrong and have zero seconds played on PC but I still suspect Torb will need a nerf on PC too.

    I'm not sure, to be honest, on PC.

    I've ran into more Torb spam strats on PC lately but as long as I am coordinating with friends we crush them no problem. So it's not super strong or anything. On the other hand, the Torb spam team needs to put in very little effort to make a solid defense while the team countering them has to put a lot of work and coordination into defeating it, so, that is a little out of whack.

    Also Torb spam isn't particularly fun or interesting to play against, but, I'm not sure how you balance around that.

    Yeah I super agree. There's definitely a weird thing where like, a giant pile of automatic turrets raise your base team coordination/skill up to a certain amount for free cause you dropped an auto aiming turret. If the other team can't pass that bar they can't win.... but the torb team didn't really need to do anything to set that bar.

    As far as high win rates for Torb goes I wonder how much of that is also his armor. It's generally really good, but on shield characters it becomes absolutely insane.

    He's also got the Sym thing going on where like, you have to deal with the turret, but even when that's down Torb himself is a solid character with a decent gun, and even when he's down the team is still benefiting from his armor drops while he re-spawns so it's very hard to remove his influence from the battlefield.

    My concern with the Torb nerf is that I only play him solo and it seems to be that Torb's in aggregate are the issue. So if they go overboard on the nerf because multiples of him are too good....will little old me who only uses him when nobody else is find that he is crap now?

    Inside of a dog...it's too dark to read.
  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Hawkstone wrote: »
    RawrBear wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    PSN being playstation network so consoles, right?

    Yeah, really good snipers are much fewer and further between on consoles.

    I imagine for that rare console sniper prodigy though she still wrecks shop.

    But yeah, especially now with patches console and PC Overwatch may as well be different games, which always makes the conversations in this thread about game balance and class counters and the like interesting.

    Yeah I could be wrong and have zero seconds played on PC but I still suspect Torb will need a nerf on PC too.

    I'm not sure, to be honest, on PC.

    I've ran into more Torb spam strats on PC lately but as long as I am coordinating with friends we crush them no problem. So it's not super strong or anything. On the other hand, the Torb spam team needs to put in very little effort to make a solid defense while the team countering them has to put a lot of work and coordination into defeating it, so, that is a little out of whack.

    Also Torb spam isn't particularly fun or interesting to play against, but, I'm not sure how you balance around that.

    Yeah I super agree. There's definitely a weird thing where like, a giant pile of automatic turrets raise your base team coordination/skill up to a certain amount for free cause you dropped an auto aiming turret. If the other team can't pass that bar they can't win.... but the torb team didn't really need to do anything to set that bar.

    As far as high win rates for Torb goes I wonder how much of that is also his armor. It's generally really good, but on shield characters it becomes absolutely insane.

    He's also got the Sym thing going on where like, you have to deal with the turret, but even when that's down Torb himself is a solid character with a decent gun, and even when he's down the team is still benefiting from his armor drops while he re-spawns so it's very hard to remove his influence from the battlefield.

    My concern with the Torb nerf is that I only play him solo and it seems to be that Torb's in aggregate are the issue. So if they go overboard on the nerf because multiples of him are too good....will little old me who only uses him when nobody else is find that he is crap now?
    Even after the nerf he won't be crap, really

    His turret will be significantly less effective but he can still give out armor and has a really solid gun


    CYpGAPn.png
  • HawkstoneHawkstone Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things. Somewhere outside of BarstowRegistered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Hawkstone wrote: »
    RawrBear wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    PSN being playstation network so consoles, right?

    Yeah, really good snipers are much fewer and further between on consoles.

    I imagine for that rare console sniper prodigy though she still wrecks shop.

    But yeah, especially now with patches console and PC Overwatch may as well be different games, which always makes the conversations in this thread about game balance and class counters and the like interesting.

    Yeah I could be wrong and have zero seconds played on PC but I still suspect Torb will need a nerf on PC too.

    I'm not sure, to be honest, on PC.

    I've ran into more Torb spam strats on PC lately but as long as I am coordinating with friends we crush them no problem. So it's not super strong or anything. On the other hand, the Torb spam team needs to put in very little effort to make a solid defense while the team countering them has to put a lot of work and coordination into defeating it, so, that is a little out of whack.

    Also Torb spam isn't particularly fun or interesting to play against, but, I'm not sure how you balance around that.

    Yeah I super agree. There's definitely a weird thing where like, a giant pile of automatic turrets raise your base team coordination/skill up to a certain amount for free cause you dropped an auto aiming turret. If the other team can't pass that bar they can't win.... but the torb team didn't really need to do anything to set that bar.

    As far as high win rates for Torb goes I wonder how much of that is also his armor. It's generally really good, but on shield characters it becomes absolutely insane.

    He's also got the Sym thing going on where like, you have to deal with the turret, but even when that's down Torb himself is a solid character with a decent gun, and even when he's down the team is still benefiting from his armor drops while he re-spawns so it's very hard to remove his influence from the battlefield.

    My concern with the Torb nerf is that I only play him solo and it seems to be that Torb's in aggregate are the issue. So if they go overboard on the nerf because multiples of him are too good....will little old me who only uses him when nobody else is find that he is crap now?
    Even after the nerf he won't be crap, really

    His turret will be significantly less effective but he can still give out armor and has a really solid gun


    I guess...I mean it is all math right now but 30% seems super high. Like why even bother making a turret high.

    Inside of a dog...it's too dark to read.
  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Hawkstone wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Hawkstone wrote: »
    RawrBear wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    PSN being playstation network so consoles, right?

    Yeah, really good snipers are much fewer and further between on consoles.

    I imagine for that rare console sniper prodigy though she still wrecks shop.

    But yeah, especially now with patches console and PC Overwatch may as well be different games, which always makes the conversations in this thread about game balance and class counters and the like interesting.

    Yeah I could be wrong and have zero seconds played on PC but I still suspect Torb will need a nerf on PC too.

    I'm not sure, to be honest, on PC.

    I've ran into more Torb spam strats on PC lately but as long as I am coordinating with friends we crush them no problem. So it's not super strong or anything. On the other hand, the Torb spam team needs to put in very little effort to make a solid defense while the team countering them has to put a lot of work and coordination into defeating it, so, that is a little out of whack.

    Also Torb spam isn't particularly fun or interesting to play against, but, I'm not sure how you balance around that.

    Yeah I super agree. There's definitely a weird thing where like, a giant pile of automatic turrets raise your base team coordination/skill up to a certain amount for free cause you dropped an auto aiming turret. If the other team can't pass that bar they can't win.... but the torb team didn't really need to do anything to set that bar.

    As far as high win rates for Torb goes I wonder how much of that is also his armor. It's generally really good, but on shield characters it becomes absolutely insane.

    He's also got the Sym thing going on where like, you have to deal with the turret, but even when that's down Torb himself is a solid character with a decent gun, and even when he's down the team is still benefiting from his armor drops while he re-spawns so it's very hard to remove his influence from the battlefield.

    My concern with the Torb nerf is that I only play him solo and it seems to be that Torb's in aggregate are the issue. So if they go overboard on the nerf because multiples of him are too good....will little old me who only uses him when nobody else is find that he is crap now?
    Even after the nerf he won't be crap, really

    His turret will be significantly less effective but he can still give out armor and has a really solid gun


    I guess...I mean it is all math right now but 30% seems super high. Like why even bother making a turret high.
    Because it is still putting out damage and drawing enemy attention

    It will become less of a priority, you should probably never prioritize repairing it over shooting enemies at that point, but it costs nothing to throw down and upgrade and can still contribute, especially if you put it in a good spot

    CYpGAPn.png
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    30% nerf to the turret seems staggeringly ludicrous to me, but I've been assured that Torb functions entirely different on console despite none of the actual counters to Torbjorn requiring particularly fast or precise aiming.

    So hey, maybe he'll be fine with a turret that any single hero in the game could walk up to and DPS race to death.

  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    I think torbjorn is fine on PC but if I were to change him I'd reduce his armor drops to 50 hp

    he's fine right now and it's actually already best to play him actively

    camping your turret is basically depriving your team of your rivet gun

    This is kind of what I'm getting at.

    I think active Torb is better than passive but playing him passively is viable enough that a lot of folks don't realize this.

    I think the scrap mechanic is meant to get folks to move around but I think they greatly underestimated how selfish random players can be.

  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Maddoc wrote: »
    30% nerf to the turret seems staggeringly ludicrous to me, but I've been assured that Torb functions entirely different on console despite none of the actual counters to Torbjorn requiring particularly fast or precise aiming.

    So hey, maybe he'll be fine with a turret that any single hero in the game could walk up to and DPS race to death.
    It is mostly because 3 or 4 Torb defense teams are very common on consoles so it is less the single turret as a problem but having 4 dead on 100% accurate turrets all covering the same area creating a ridiculous killbox

    CYpGAPn.png
  • WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    Also worth pointing out that for how useful it is its kinda crazy how fast torb's ult builds charge

    A 30% damage drop is rough but it's kind of telling to me that they kept his gain rate as is, I think that's a good balance

This discussion has been closed.