Anyone playing rogue post-patch? How do the specs feel?
After having had several weeks to play with the specs, so far my impressions are:
Assassination: Feels like it needs some more time on the drawing board. Does it deal solid damage? Yes, and if that's what you're going for, you'll be fine here. But as a spec whose class fantasy (and that's the buzzword this xpac) is built around poisons, having the strongest abilities be/be tied in to your bleeds just doesn't make sense. On top of that, with the removal of Dispatch, it really feels like it's missing something to do during an execute phase. I know some people don't care for procs as they're too reliant on RNG, but I always felt that that added a bit of fun and flavor to an otherwise extremely rote spec. You can talent into Death From Above (as any of the specs can), but that ability just doesn't feel like it works well with the kit. Also, the removal of Ambush just makes zero sense from a class labeled Assassination.
Outlaw (Combat): Seems to have taken on all of the RNG from the other specs and boiled it into Roll The Bones, which is really the defining ability of the spec. Otherwise it's not terribly different from pre-7.0 Combat. Of the three specs, it's by far the one the most closely matched with its class fantasy, though it still needs a bit of tweaking. Stealth serves zero purpose with Outlaw, and it seems to retain Ambush for some odd reason (doesn't fit the flavor at all). Grappling Hook is a fun little flavor ability, as is Cannonball Barrage. As someone who has spent most of my time as Assassination, I've never been much of a fan of Combat so, grain of salt and all that.
Subtlety: At first, this spec really just didn't click with me at all. I like the whole 'ninja' flavor they were going for here, and it's the spec with the most mobility by a huge margin. Teleporting around and stabbing people with shadow power sells the fantasy pretty hard, so good on 'em for that. Functionally it's lost a bit from pre-7.0 Sub, as it no longer relies on bleeds or Hemo (both of those being moved exclusively to Assassination). The biggest issue with the spec right now is that, for whatever reason, Blizzard decided to break the functionality of the auto-stealth bar swap when you activate Shadow Dance. It makes the spec sort of clunky to play, which is a shame because if they'd just left that functionality alone, it would probably be my favorite spec of the three and there seems to be no real reason for the change when the standard Stealth bar swap (and others like it) are still completely intact.
Overall, each spec is pretty fun, but as someone who has mained assassination since vanilla, I really hoped to see it get a bit more attention and flavor. Nothing bad enough to shelve the class though.
I have a day 1 launch Resto Druid (Night Elf) who I have kept up with fairly well throughout the years. I also have a Tauren Resto druid that is better geared and has better progression than my Day1, but the tauren isn't day 1. I also have a worgen level 100 druid just because worgen.
So I've got 3 druids at max level and 11+ years of resto druid experience.
And I'm hating the 7.0 druid changes. I feel like I cannot keep up with healing anymore. HoTs are all falling off too fast, maintaining HoTs even on the tank has become a chore, and maintaining HoTs on the rest of the party is pretty much impossible. I feel like I do not have the tools or the healing throughput to manage AoE spike damage. I can barely keep up with healing the tank, and as soon as more than 1 person is hurt I'm boned.
How did they manage to completely ruin my favorite class? I find the 7.0 tools they have given me completely inadequate for keeping a group alive. Note that I'm specifically talking about 5-man content right now. I haven't gone into a raid with druid yet.
tbh it's... not very different from before 7.0? The only real negative change is direct heals not refreshing LB anymore, and that's kinda annoying but not the end of the world
in most 5-man circumstances you can do rejuv/germination/wild growth and that ought to deal with virtually any big spikey group damage (esp with flourish)
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
The biggest difference is that healing is just less potent and mana is much more valuable. On top of that tanks are MUCH more responsible for their own survival.
The biggest difference is that healing is just less potent and mana is much more valuable. On top of that tanks are MUCH more responsible for their own survival.
This is a big change up from Healers never running out of mana. Honestly, its been several expansions since they've treated healers with mana bars like they actually meant something.
Huh? As a tank it feels like it barely even matters what I do anymore, besides pray healers are awake. On live I *hate* playing my brewmaster now, I keep Ironskin Brew up when any significant damage, purify occassionally and slurp orbs when needed. It's quite awful.
Vengeance at least feels a little better, though I guess that's mostly because it's new and shiny. Press spikes when needed, though the baseline mitigation is high enough as DHs can't keep spikes up 100% time. Soul Cleave for heals and uhh..
..yeah, that's it, actually. Tanks feel like player controlled training dummies now.
I guess a lot of this is assumptions by healers who couldn't possibly save tanks in situations they feel they should have. Again designing all classes around something that isn't in the game is going to cause problems.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I had a very tough time tanking on my paladin in TW the other night, felt super squishy. Somehow made it to the end. After zoning out, read over my changed skills again, and realized there was a button i had been hitting immediately when available instead of waiting for the buff that button gives me to expire. The buff is 5 second of -30% damage taken for 4.7 seconds, and i gain a charge of the button every 6 seconds or so. Whoops. Spamming it meant that most of the time i did not have the buff.
Will have to try again with that in mind.
That buff stacks additively so there's no real big deal with hitting it back to back. But lots of paladins aren't prioritizing Judgement properly.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
The biggest difference is that healing is just less potent and mana is much more valuable. On top of that tanks are MUCH more responsible for their own survival.
The last part is literally the opposite of true.
Tanks are more reliant on healers than they have been for three expansions now.
Even at ilvl 734, I can't keep myself alive without a healer in a mythic 5man. I'm certainly not hard to heal, but I can't survive alone. Before 7.0, I was a tiny god, every dungeon run was essentially Dhalphir & miscellaneous, and everyone else was just along for the ride.
This is a big change up from Healers never running out of mana. Honestly, its been several expansions since they've treated healers with mana bars like they actually meant something.
Not really. At the beginning of Cata, MoP, and WoD they said the same thing all three times - we want to make mana matter. And it did. For the first set of heroic dungeons and raids. But as soon as people start getting spirit the whole model fell apart.
This time mana regen is not increased by gear so theoretically should matter equally throughout the expansion.
The biggest difference is that healing is just less potent and mana is much more valuable. On top of that tanks are MUCH more responsible for their own survival.
The last part is literally the opposite of true.
Tanks are more reliant on healers than they have been for three expansions now.
I think the number of defensive cooldowns that tanks have is way down, but some of them seem to be really good. In Mythics, a guild Prot Warrior out-healed (well, out-absorbed) me just keeping Ignore Pain going on himself. And Blood DKs still do an amazing amount of self-healing.
I think the biggest problem with mana regen not increasing is that is makes HoTs progressively better as the expansion goes on. Single target heals often end up overhealing for a lot just because it's a fixed amount all at once. A HoT though can top someone off and stick around for some other incidental damage. The further we go into the expansion and the harder the content, the more people are going to want to prevent overhealing. Not that it won't be an issue from the start, but it is probably going to make druids, MW, and shaman to some extent start to pull ahead of other healers the longer things stay the same.
I really don't have any evidence for this yet, just thinking about it seems like that could be a logical conclusion. Maybe not the only one, but certainly a possibility.
I think the biggest problem with mana regen not increasing is that is makes HoTs progressively better as the expansion goes on. Single target heals often end up overhealing for a lot just because it's a fixed amount all at once. A HoT though can top someone off and stick around for some other incidental damage. The further we go into the expansion and the harder the content, the more people are going to want to prevent overhealing. Not that it won't be an issue from the start, but it is probably going to make druids, MW, and shaman to some extent start to pull ahead of other healers the longer things stay the same.
I really don't have any evidence for this yet, just thinking about it seems like that could be a logical conclusion. Maybe not the only one, but certainly a possibility.
This will only be true if spellpower paces stamina over time. As long as health pools are several multiples of the largest possible heal, overhealing won't be a huge efficiency problem.
And health pools definitely get huge in Legion. Post-105, even quest gear has an insane amount of stam compared to WoD.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
The biggest difference is that healing is just less potent and mana is much more valuable. On top of that tanks are MUCH more responsible for their own survival.
The last part is literally the opposite of true.
Tanks are more reliant on healers than they have been for three expansions now.
I think the number of defensive cooldowns that tanks have is way down, but some of them seem to be really good. In Mythics, a guild Prot Warrior out-healed (well, out-absorbed) me just keeping Ignore Pain going on himself. And Blood DKs still do an amazing amount of self-healing.
Prot Warriors are an outlier with Ignore Pain, the rest are much more reliant on healers.
Anyone playing rogue post-patch? How do the specs feel?
After having had several weeks to play with the specs, so far my impressions are:
Assassination: Feels like it needs some more time on the drawing board. Does it deal solid damage? Yes, and if that's what you're going for, you'll be fine here. But as a spec whose class fantasy (and that's the buzzword this xpac) is built around poisons, having the strongest abilities be/be tied in to your bleeds just doesn't make sense. On top of that, with the removal of Dispatch, it really feels like it's missing something to do during an execute phase. I know some people don't care for procs as they're too reliant on RNG, but I always felt that that added a bit of fun and flavor to an otherwise extremely rote spec. You can talent into Death From Above (as any of the specs can), but that ability just doesn't feel like it works well with the kit. Also, the removal of Ambush just makes zero sense from a class labeled Assassination.
Outlaw (Combat): Seems to have taken on all of the RNG from the other specs and boiled it into Roll The Bones, which is really the defining ability of the spec. Otherwise it's not terribly different from pre-7.0 Combat. Of the three specs, it's by far the one the most closely matched with its class fantasy, though it still needs a bit of tweaking. Stealth serves zero purpose with Outlaw, and it seems to retain Ambush for some odd reason (doesn't fit the flavor at all). Grappling Hook is a fun little flavor ability, as is Cannonball Barrage. As someone who has spent most of my time as Assassination, I've never been much of a fan of Combat so, grain of salt and all that.
Subtlety: At first, this spec really just didn't click with me at all. I like the whole 'ninja' flavor they were going for here, and it's the spec with the most mobility by a huge margin. Teleporting around and stabbing people with shadow power sells the fantasy pretty hard, so good on 'em for that. Functionally it's lost a bit from pre-7.0 Sub, as it no longer relies on bleeds or Hemo (both of those being moved exclusively to Assassination). The biggest issue with the spec right now is that, for whatever reason, Blizzard decided to break the functionality of the auto-stealth bar swap when you activate Shadow Dance. It makes the spec sort of clunky to play, which is a shame because if they'd just left that functionality alone, it would probably be my favorite spec of the three and there seems to be no real reason for the change when the standard Stealth bar swap (and others like it) are still completely intact.
Overall, each spec is pretty fun, but as someone who has mained assassination since vanilla, I really hoped to see it get a bit more attention and flavor. Nothing bad enough to shelve the class though.
I've mained a rogue since Wrath (Though I haven't really played very much in recent years)
Of the three specs, which one has the most stuns/crowd control and such? I always loved CC'ing the heck out of mobs when leveling -- sapping one, blinding another, stunning and killing the third one, then the second, then the first. That sort of thing. It made leveling super fun, like always a little puzzle to figure out.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
The biggest difference is that healing is just less potent and mana is much more valuable. On top of that tanks are MUCH more responsible for their own survival.
The last part is literally the opposite of true.
Tanks are more reliant on healers than they have been for three expansions now.
Even at ilvl 734, I can't keep myself alive without a healer in a mythic 5man. I'm certainly not hard to heal, but I can't survive alone. Before 7.0, I was a tiny god, every dungeon run was essentially Dhalphir & miscellaneous, and everyone else was just along for the ride.
This is a big change up from Healers never running out of mana. Honestly, its been several expansions since they've treated healers with mana bars like they actually meant something.
Not really. At the beginning of Cata, MoP, and WoD they said the same thing all three times - we want to make mana matter. And it did. For the first set of heroic dungeons and raids. But as soon as people start getting spirit the whole model fell apart.
This time mana regen is not increased by gear so theoretically should matter equally throughout the expansion.
They are no longer all self healing machines that don't die. However, their ability to stay alive longer before needing heals IS more under their control.
All of the tanks have some form of short cooldown, damage mitigation in some form they have to manage. For warriors its the simple (and extremely powerful) ignore pain and shield block skills. Druids have those armor and magic defense buffs as well as some form of self healing (which is more about damage mitigation than the ability to stay alive permanently). Monks have the ability to basically conduct the flow of incoming damage. I forget paladins other than the one damage reduction mentioned (and even if it stacks, for the most part it shouldn't be stacked as you need it reactively). Most if not all tanks also have some form of aoe short CC to give breathing room.
So the name of the game isn't their ability to just completely ignore the presence of healers. Its their ability to delay their own death. This is something they need to work TOGETHER with their healers, because just about every healer also cannot full heal a tank from near dead to full. They need time. That is why healers are dependent on tanks. If the mentality of them is like that, where they think its a binary "I could keep myself alive forever before, now I cannot" then that would be where the issues arise. They need to recognize high damage points in fights and use their smaller, shorter CD damage mitigations not to just live through it, but slow damage enough for healers to keep up. Healers need to recognize those points as well, and figure out when to switch from maintaining healing to dropping some healing load to get back into a safe zone. I think for most healers, getting someone topped off takes set up, and set up usually involves less incoming healing temporarily to have huge healing soon after. Like with MW, it would be going from just rolling renewing mist and soothing into loading up enveloping and popping thunder focus to bring up a huge effuse. Or maybe even saving a vivify proc and using enveloping into essence font into a huge vivify + 2 mastery heals. Stuff like that.
If tanks go into it with the mindset they are either going to keep themselves alive, or the healer is going to keep them alive, its going to be a bad time. Its coordination of those things now. At least in the 5 mans I did. Mythic raids are really something unique and I think the debuff to HFC is a tuning fork to make them at least possible while the games finer balance is really not all that set at level 100. And it shouldn't be, they revamped the classes for 110 and it would be too much work to have them perfectly balanced for 110 AND 100.
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
I've mained a rogue since Wrath (Though I haven't really played very much in recent years)
Of the three specs, which one has the most stuns/crowd control and such? I always loved CC'ing the heck out of mobs when leveling -- sapping one, blinding another, stunning and killing the third one, then the second, then the first. That sort of thing. It made leveling super fun, like always a little puzzle to figure out.
Either Sub or Outlaw are solid choices for CC. They still have Sap, Blind, Cheap Shot, and Kidney Shot (Sub/Assassination) while Outlaw has Gouge and Between The Eyes (ranged Kidney Shot), but not Kidney Shot itself. Since Assassination lost Blind, they're sort of behind in that regard.
Edit: Bah, never going to get used to calling Combat Outlaw.
Between the Eyes hits like a truck, too, if you've got the crit buff rolling from Roll the Bones. (Shark Infested Waters, I think it is?)
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I would put outlaw as the best CC because it still has gouge. That is your common, readily available in combat CC so its a huge deal. I think all rogues have sap so you still have that for prepping pulls. But all I am certain is that Assassination is absolutely the worst off with regards to CC.
Doesn't sub get access to Cheap Shot pretty regularly because of shadow dance (or whatever it is called)? That would make their CC pretty crazy right there.
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
Is there something like Auctioneer that works with this patch? My stuff is piling up and I feel like a sucker manually selling my stuff to vendors.
Oh cool! I missed Between the Eyes when looking at the specs, and thought Outlaw just didn't have the finisher. Very cool. Maybe I'll go with Outlaw then... Plus, Outlaw has the best Artifact weapon among the three rogue specs, which is neat.
Question about Shadow Dance -- Does it actually cause your rogue to enter stealth, but still able attack? Or does it just let you act as if you are in stealth, but mobs can still attack you?
Oh cool! I missed Between the Eyes when looking at the specs, and thought Outlaw just didn't have the finisher. Very cool. Maybe I'll go with Outlaw then... Plus, Outlaw has the best Artifact weapon among the three rogue specs, which is neat.
Question about Shadow Dance -- Does it actually cause your rogue to enter stealth, but still able attack? Or does it just let you act as if you are in stealth, but mobs can still attack you?
Run Through is the default finisher, and Between the Eyes is the stun finisher. Think "ranged kidney shot that does damage"
I will say that Outlaw has one of the best artifact abilities out of all the classes I've played. It's a serious dps cooldown. Probably more of a dps increase that AR.
Oh cool! I missed Between the Eyes when looking at the specs, and thought Outlaw just didn't have the finisher. Very cool. Maybe I'll go with Outlaw then... Plus, Outlaw has the best Artifact weapon among the three rogue specs, which is neat.
Question about Shadow Dance -- Does it actually cause your rogue to enter stealth, but still able attack? Or does it just let you act as if you are in stealth, but mobs can still attack you?
Moreso the latter. Basically SD just lets you use stealth-only abilities while in combat.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Outlaw has the best on use ability maybe, but Assassination seems to have the best overall stuff from artifacts.
It gets a great on use poison that alone makes your mastery actually worth it, the chance to double the damage of your best ability, and a large damage proc on the use of your primary damage buff CD (while also decreasing the cooldown of that skill).
Which all adds into what already makes assassination strong, which is insane burst damage windows.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
So two questions, been gearing up my hunter and I've hit ilevel 704
1.) What ilevel is suggested for mythic dungeons? I really want those heirlooms but I can't ever find groups for them
2.) At my ilevel what is considered good DPS? I'm still trying to decide if I like MM or Surv more. Both can burst up to 60k at the start of fights if procs are on point and I can usually maintain 30-40k DPS usually around 40k
Also.. Extra question..
3.) I boosted my huntard to 100, and he's still utilizing a 640 ring and a 675 ring (675 was warforged from.. something cant remember). If I don't get lucky with LFR/Norm or Herioc raids this week is hunting rares/treasusers in the jungle a good alternative to find a decent ring? I would buy one from the AH but considering I only have about 50k gold between all my characters, I don't feel comfortable throwing down 15k for one when the invasions are coming soon and they drop ilevel 700
(Yes, Invasions are coming soon but I'm trying to be as geared as possible before they hit )
You do get a il... was it 700? ring from doing the Broken Shore scenario once everything kicks off, so that's at least one way if you don't mind waiting.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
You do get a il... was it 700? ring from doing the Broken Shore scenario once everything kicks off, so that's at least one way if you don't mind waiting.
You get a 685 ring for starting, and 685 mainhand weap for finishing.
So two questions, been gearing up my hunter and I've hit ilevel 704
1.) What ilevel is suggested for mythic dungeons? I really want those heirlooms but I can't ever find groups for them
2.) At my ilevel what is considered good DPS? I'm still trying to decide if I like MM or Surv more. Both can burst up to 60k at the start of fights if procs are on point and I can usually maintain 30-40k DPS usually around 40k
Also.. Extra question..
3.) I boosted my huntard to 100, and he's still utilizing a 640 ring and a 675 ring (675 was warforged from.. something cant remember). If I don't get lucky with LFR/Norm or Herioc raids this week is hunting rares/treasusers in the jungle a good alternative to find a decent ring? I would buy one from the AH but considering I only have about 50k gold between all my characters, I don't feel comfortable throwing down 15k for one when the invasions are coming soon and they drop ilevel 700
(Yes, Invasions are coming soon but I'm trying to be as geared as possible before they hit )
Hit up some time-walking dungeons. The first one will get you a quest turn-in that gets you enough time-walking currency to buy quite a few 675 pieces. I think there are some rings available during LK week, which is now. And the dungeons themselves drop stuff that's in the 660 to 675 range. And the weekly for running five time-walking dungeons gets you a random piece of HFC gear.
The Broken Shore ring is 685, or at least it was when I did it in beta a few weeks ago.
Otherwise, you can buy baleful rings from the Apexis vendor (or farm them from Tanaan elites). Baleful stuff starts at 650, but you can use the Apexis boost to get them to 695 and then use Valor to get them to 715.
In Icecrown Citadel's raid, if you do the airship battle then die later, how do you get back up top? The airship is gone when I go back and I don't see another way up.
In Icecrown Citadel's raid, if you do the airship battle then die later, how do you get back up top? The airship is gone when I go back and I don't see another way up.
Teleporter just inside the front door.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I too still need to do mythics for those trinkets, but I was hoping the invasions would be sooner rather than later to be geared enough for them.
I am trying to gear up in LFR as the HFC stuff there gets pretty good with the random ilvl increases, but of course NOTHING DROPPED last week at all so I wait.
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
Kazzak is really messed up. Either you end up in a phase without your raid, in a phase without kazzak, or in a phase with a few hundred people. Either way, it is super laggy and doesn't end well.
The new Ret rotation still feels like playing the piano, but I'm playing Chopsticks instead of Mozart.
I don't hate it, but I'm still on the fence with the simplification.
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
So, uh...I just went to Utgarde Pinnacle for my usual steamrolling through to Skadi with the hopes he would drop his mount. He didn't.
But he did drop a timewarped badge. I was confused. Aren't those only supposed to drop in the timewalking version? So I went back and killed the other bosses and all of them dropped timewarped badges. King Ymiron dropped the quest item that gets you 500 badges, and he dropped a timewarped ring.
That's not supposed to happen, right? I was just running around spamming my arcane explosion.
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I'm loving assassination. Pretty damn amazing output once you nail down the rotation. Probably going to main that character for the expansion
Assassination: Feels like it needs some more time on the drawing board. Does it deal solid damage? Yes, and if that's what you're going for, you'll be fine here. But as a spec whose class fantasy (and that's the buzzword this xpac) is built around poisons, having the strongest abilities be/be tied in to your bleeds just doesn't make sense. On top of that, with the removal of Dispatch, it really feels like it's missing something to do during an execute phase. I know some people don't care for procs as they're too reliant on RNG, but I always felt that that added a bit of fun and flavor to an otherwise extremely rote spec. You can talent into Death From Above (as any of the specs can), but that ability just doesn't feel like it works well with the kit. Also, the removal of Ambush just makes zero sense from a class labeled Assassination.
Outlaw (Combat): Seems to have taken on all of the RNG from the other specs and boiled it into Roll The Bones, which is really the defining ability of the spec. Otherwise it's not terribly different from pre-7.0 Combat. Of the three specs, it's by far the one the most closely matched with its class fantasy, though it still needs a bit of tweaking. Stealth serves zero purpose with Outlaw, and it seems to retain Ambush for some odd reason (doesn't fit the flavor at all). Grappling Hook is a fun little flavor ability, as is Cannonball Barrage. As someone who has spent most of my time as Assassination, I've never been much of a fan of Combat so, grain of salt and all that.
Subtlety: At first, this spec really just didn't click with me at all. I like the whole 'ninja' flavor they were going for here, and it's the spec with the most mobility by a huge margin. Teleporting around and stabbing people with shadow power sells the fantasy pretty hard, so good on 'em for that. Functionally it's lost a bit from pre-7.0 Sub, as it no longer relies on bleeds or Hemo (both of those being moved exclusively to Assassination). The biggest issue with the spec right now is that, for whatever reason, Blizzard decided to break the functionality of the auto-stealth bar swap when you activate Shadow Dance. It makes the spec sort of clunky to play, which is a shame because if they'd just left that functionality alone, it would probably be my favorite spec of the three and there seems to be no real reason for the change when the standard Stealth bar swap (and others like it) are still completely intact.
Overall, each spec is pretty fun, but as someone who has mained assassination since vanilla, I really hoped to see it get a bit more attention and flavor. Nothing bad enough to shelve the class though.
tbh it's... not very different from before 7.0? The only real negative change is direct heals not refreshing LB anymore, and that's kinda annoying but not the end of the world
in most 5-man circumstances you can do rejuv/germination/wild growth and that ought to deal with virtually any big spikey group damage (esp with flourish)
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
This is a big change up from Healers never running out of mana. Honestly, its been several expansions since they've treated healers with mana bars like they actually meant something.
Vengeance at least feels a little better, though I guess that's mostly because it's new and shiny. Press spikes when needed, though the baseline mitigation is high enough as DHs can't keep spikes up 100% time. Soul Cleave for heals and uhh..
..yeah, that's it, actually. Tanks feel like player controlled training dummies now.
That buff stacks additively so there's no real big deal with hitting it back to back. But lots of paladins aren't prioritizing Judgement properly.
The last part is literally the opposite of true.
Tanks are more reliant on healers than they have been for three expansions now.
Even at ilvl 734, I can't keep myself alive without a healer in a mythic 5man. I'm certainly not hard to heal, but I can't survive alone. Before 7.0, I was a tiny god, every dungeon run was essentially Dhalphir & miscellaneous, and everyone else was just along for the ride.
Not really. At the beginning of Cata, MoP, and WoD they said the same thing all three times - we want to make mana matter. And it did. For the first set of heroic dungeons and raids. But as soon as people start getting spirit the whole model fell apart.
This time mana regen is not increased by gear so theoretically should matter equally throughout the expansion.
I think the number of defensive cooldowns that tanks have is way down, but some of them seem to be really good. In Mythics, a guild Prot Warrior out-healed (well, out-absorbed) me just keeping Ignore Pain going on himself. And Blood DKs still do an amazing amount of self-healing.
I really don't have any evidence for this yet, just thinking about it seems like that could be a logical conclusion. Maybe not the only one, but certainly a possibility.
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This will only be true if spellpower paces stamina over time. As long as health pools are several multiples of the largest possible heal, overhealing won't be a huge efficiency problem.
And health pools definitely get huge in Legion. Post-105, even quest gear has an insane amount of stam compared to WoD.
Prot Warriors are an outlier with Ignore Pain, the rest are much more reliant on healers.
I've mained a rogue since Wrath (Though I haven't really played very much in recent years)
Of the three specs, which one has the most stuns/crowd control and such? I always loved CC'ing the heck out of mobs when leveling -- sapping one, blinding another, stunning and killing the third one, then the second, then the first. That sort of thing. It made leveling super fun, like always a little puzzle to figure out.
They are no longer all self healing machines that don't die. However, their ability to stay alive longer before needing heals IS more under their control.
All of the tanks have some form of short cooldown, damage mitigation in some form they have to manage. For warriors its the simple (and extremely powerful) ignore pain and shield block skills. Druids have those armor and magic defense buffs as well as some form of self healing (which is more about damage mitigation than the ability to stay alive permanently). Monks have the ability to basically conduct the flow of incoming damage. I forget paladins other than the one damage reduction mentioned (and even if it stacks, for the most part it shouldn't be stacked as you need it reactively). Most if not all tanks also have some form of aoe short CC to give breathing room.
So the name of the game isn't their ability to just completely ignore the presence of healers. Its their ability to delay their own death. This is something they need to work TOGETHER with their healers, because just about every healer also cannot full heal a tank from near dead to full. They need time. That is why healers are dependent on tanks. If the mentality of them is like that, where they think its a binary "I could keep myself alive forever before, now I cannot" then that would be where the issues arise. They need to recognize high damage points in fights and use their smaller, shorter CD damage mitigations not to just live through it, but slow damage enough for healers to keep up. Healers need to recognize those points as well, and figure out when to switch from maintaining healing to dropping some healing load to get back into a safe zone. I think for most healers, getting someone topped off takes set up, and set up usually involves less incoming healing temporarily to have huge healing soon after. Like with MW, it would be going from just rolling renewing mist and soothing into loading up enveloping and popping thunder focus to bring up a huge effuse. Or maybe even saving a vivify proc and using enveloping into essence font into a huge vivify + 2 mastery heals. Stuff like that.
If tanks go into it with the mindset they are either going to keep themselves alive, or the healer is going to keep them alive, its going to be a bad time. Its coordination of those things now. At least in the 5 mans I did. Mythic raids are really something unique and I think the debuff to HFC is a tuning fork to make them at least possible while the games finer balance is really not all that set at level 100. And it shouldn't be, they revamped the classes for 110 and it would be too much work to have them perfectly balanced for 110 AND 100.
Either Sub or Outlaw are solid choices for CC. They still have Sap, Blind, Cheap Shot, and Kidney Shot (Sub/Assassination) while Outlaw has Gouge and Between The Eyes (ranged Kidney Shot), but not Kidney Shot itself. Since Assassination lost Blind, they're sort of behind in that regard.
Edit: Bah, never going to get used to calling Combat Outlaw.
Between the Eyes hits like a truck, too, if you've got the crit buff rolling from Roll the Bones. (Shark Infested Waters, I think it is?)
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Doesn't sub get access to Cheap Shot pretty regularly because of shadow dance (or whatever it is called)? That would make their CC pretty crazy right there.
Question about Shadow Dance -- Does it actually cause your rogue to enter stealth, but still able attack? Or does it just let you act as if you are in stealth, but mobs can still attack you?
Run Through is the default finisher, and Between the Eyes is the stun finisher. Think "ranged kidney shot that does damage"
I will say that Outlaw has one of the best artifact abilities out of all the classes I've played. It's a serious dps cooldown. Probably more of a dps increase that AR.
Moreso the latter. Basically SD just lets you use stealth-only abilities while in combat.
It gets a great on use poison that alone makes your mastery actually worth it, the chance to double the damage of your best ability, and a large damage proc on the use of your primary damage buff CD (while also decreasing the cooldown of that skill).
Which all adds into what already makes assassination strong, which is insane burst damage windows.
Auctionator, AuctionLite and TradeSkillMaster all work.
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1.) What ilevel is suggested for mythic dungeons? I really want those heirlooms but I can't ever find groups for them
2.) At my ilevel what is considered good DPS? I'm still trying to decide if I like MM or Surv more. Both can burst up to 60k at the start of fights if procs are on point and I can usually maintain 30-40k DPS usually around 40k
Also.. Extra question..
3.) I boosted my huntard to 100, and he's still utilizing a 640 ring and a 675 ring (675 was warforged from.. something cant remember). If I don't get lucky with LFR/Norm or Herioc raids this week is hunting rares/treasusers in the jungle a good alternative to find a decent ring? I would buy one from the AH but considering I only have about 50k gold between all my characters, I don't feel comfortable throwing down 15k for one when the invasions are coming soon and they drop ilevel 700
(Yes, Invasions are coming soon but I'm trying to be as geared as possible before they hit
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You get a 685 ring for starting, and 685 mainhand weap for finishing.
Hit up some time-walking dungeons. The first one will get you a quest turn-in that gets you enough time-walking currency to buy quite a few 675 pieces. I think there are some rings available during LK week, which is now. And the dungeons themselves drop stuff that's in the 660 to 675 range. And the weekly for running five time-walking dungeons gets you a random piece of HFC gear.
The Broken Shore ring is 685, or at least it was when I did it in beta a few weeks ago.
Otherwise, you can buy baleful rings from the Apexis vendor (or farm them from Tanaan elites). Baleful stuff starts at 650, but you can use the Apexis boost to get them to 695 and then use Valor to get them to 715.
EDIT - nm, found the ground teleporter.
Teleporter just inside the front door.
I am trying to gear up in LFR as the HFC stuff there gets pretty good with the random ilvl increases, but of course NOTHING DROPPED last week at all so I wait.
If you get Pit of Saron during the Timewalking event
Just don't bother. The last boss is bugged (the graphics on the ice patches are bugged to be way too large, so kiting is pretty close to impossible).
I've never gotten a drop either, but its not too bad to turn 6000 garrison resources into 3 more chances for a drop.
https://i.redd.it/80l8fz9uqlbx.png
I don't hate it, but I'm still on the fence with the simplification.
But he did drop a timewarped badge. I was confused. Aren't those only supposed to drop in the timewalking version? So I went back and killed the other bosses and all of them dropped timewarped badges. King Ymiron dropped the quest item that gets you 500 badges, and he dropped a timewarped ring.
That's not supposed to happen, right? I was just running around spamming my arcane explosion.