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The [chat] Who Circumnavigated Fairyland

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Posts

  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    tynic wrote: »
    oh, I agree completely, the precision is not even close to ideal.

    Gotcha- just after reading your post this morning I had a moment of, "Wait, was I taking crazy pills before? Or was there an iOS update or something that made this all suddenly come good, as I've always hoped?", and had to bust it back out to confirm that no, it's just as not good as it was before.
    I'd just hate for someone to read into that the most positive possible interpretation there, and blow $700+ on something that's really not worth that kind of money, because that shared dream of what iPad drawing could/should be is so very seductive.

    tynic
  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    Yeah, eventually it just became obvious that in 90% of travel situations, my sketchbook was still more convenient, and I wasn't going to do finished work anyway. When I took a two week trip it was pretty handy, but that is probably half of the dozen times I used it. I could only use the surface to paint, but that was mostly because its also a bit small for line art.

    If I'm just going to sketch, I'll probably get the best results with paper anyway. I would think the only real replacement is the stupid expensive companion.

  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    I've heard so many mixed reviews about all the options out there - and I tried a Cintiq companion at work about 6 months ago and hated it (much too heavy, Photoshop UI was impossibly tiny, and a few other problems I forgot about that made the experience less-than-great for me).

    Really looking forward to the day when I can take out something the size of an iPad and have it work like a desktop Cintiq. Until the tech for that kind of mobile digital drawing becomes more realistic and precise though, I'm probably going to just avoid it altogether and stay handcuffed to my desk. :P

    Oh and dabble that weird outdated jazz called "paper" and "pen" or whatever the hell, too.

    tynic
  • PeasPeas Registered User regular
    I am no professìonal artist but you folks really have to try out drawing on a Samsung Note

  • LampLamp Registered User regular
    edited August 2016
    IMO drawing/painting on a Surface feels just as good if not BETTER than drawing on a Cintiq, because I like that there is virtually zero parallax on the Surface. Both feel great from a hardware perspective, though. The main issue is that software (particularly Photoshop) really has not caught up. Yeah, I managed to piece together a third-party hotkey toolbar that works reasonably well for Photoshop, but I still have to deal with a UI that was just not meant to be used on a touch screen.

    Lamp on
    Mabelma
  • PeasPeas Registered User regular
    edited August 2016


    Hi folks is there a specific art style for the paintings in the mv, I really like it a lot but I have no idea how to go about learning more about it


    Edit: if possible please also intro me
    arts stuff with "magical dreamy feels"

    Peas on
  • SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    @Angel_of_Bacon Like every artist in my studio has a damn iPad pro and the pencil, and they love it. I think the pencil actually has a lot to do with it, so I wouldn't write it off until you try it with the pencil. Say what you want about apple, but they know how to make hardware and software work really well together.

  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    That's great if true, and I'm not writing it off- I'm just not going to personally spend money on it until I've had a decent hands on first, by which I mean using it for a good amount of time with a real drawing program, not some 'this is just what's installed on the demo unit' junk (also if I can think of better things I could be spending my money on instead, which at the moment I definitely can.)
    Been burned too many times for another sight-unseen purchase of an expensive tech gizmo (also why I haven't plunked down the cash for an HTC Vive yet- even with a lot of glowing reviews, that's way too much money for it to be anything less than 98% of what I'm hoping for from that thing.)

  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    The vive is amazing but everyone I know with one says the same thing, you show it to people because its the coolest shit on the planet, but you never actually use it on your own. I think its cool as fuck, but wouldnt buy one quite yet.

    I think If I had a more office/commute oriented lifestyle, an ipad pro would probably fit into my workflow. the proximity to my normal set up is really what kills the mobile experience for me, because I'm just not forced to make something else work. I cant go back to my intous for the same reason.

    @Lamp I believe krita is working on a touch interface, might be something to look out for. Krita is setting itself up to be a modern and actually useful free PS alternative, like if gimp didnt stop being relevant in 2006.

  • LampLamp Registered User regular
    edited August 2016
    I think one of the things I struggle most with in drawing is costuming. I've never personally been very interested in real world fashion, though I'm trying to cultivate some more interest for the sake of art. But there are just so many possibilities when it comes to clothing a character. Even if I wanted to paint something really specific like, say, a stereotypical D&D ranger, there are soooo many directions to go in, even in that narrow range. And then once I kind of decide on some basic ideas for the type of costume, it's hard to gather appropriate reference because folds are and drapery are dynamic and change with the pose, obviously. Unless I'm dressing and shooting reference myself, it seems really tough to me. And as a guy with a pretty boring wardrobe, it's not always to easy to approximate many types of garments even if I wanted to go that route.

    I don't know that I really have any specific questions on this, but I'd be interested to hear how other people have tried to tackle the subject. I probably should just draw and paint a LOT more clothing/costume studies.

    Lamp on
    tapeslinger
  • tapeslingertapeslinger Space Unicorn Slush Ranger Social Justice Rebel ScumRegistered User regular
    edited August 2016
    reference, reference, reference, re: clothing. it is obvious *immediately* when the artist isn't looking at anything in particular or is just winging it, unless there's a really stylized reason for something to look a certain way. You can definitely learn visual shorthand as you perfect something but garment shape, fit, body size, fabric type, all of these things change what you see before you even get into the fun parts about color and aesthetic.

    It can help, if you really want invented styles, to understand garment construction? In which case using Pinterest to look at sewing patterns and garment construction and fashion design is super helpful, as well as to find different elements to reference or whatnot.

    Seriously, it's one of my favorite things to do is surf around for ref. hell, I end up doing that enough that I forget what I was going to draw? :eek: so don't do that, but definitely use a more is more approach re: studying fabrics on bodies.

    tapeslinger on
    Lamptynic
  • LampLamp Registered User regular
    edited August 2016
    I think it kind of goes back to one of my main issues. I like coming up with an idea for a scene, I have the story all hammered out. And I get excited about composing my characters in the scene and coming up with lighting for the scene and all that. But then I need to sit down and hammer out the details of my drawing, one of the key things being costuming. But I get impatient with that -- I wanna paint! For some reason I think I'll be able to just make up a costume as I got along. It really bites me in the butt.

    I also just tend to get overwhelmed looking up costuming references. If it were easy for me to imagine what I wanted my characters to be wearing, then I think it would be a lot easier to look up reference. One thing that's overwhelming to me is the idea of referencing all these different elements of a costume. So I need reference for a shirt, coat, maybe some armor, pants, belts and on and on. Maybe I'd make it easier on myself if I just found something I liked and said "Okay, I'm going to try to paint my character wearing exactly THAT outfit." Then I'd have a solid starting place and could look up more reference to help me paint that specific outfit, rather than trying to piece something together from scraps. I don't know, but it's super tough for me.

    There's also the issue that whenever I paint drapery and folds from reference, I think: no way in hell I'd ever be able to come up with this stuff without painting it directly from reference. But that's probably an excuse; I can find folds to reference for my original scenes/poses if I try a little bit.

    I'm gonna check out Pinterest though. Never really been on there, but it sounds like a good idea!

    Lamp on
  • tapeslingertapeslinger Space Unicorn Slush Ranger Social Justice Rebel ScumRegistered User regular
    Pinterest is freaking great, you can bookmark and organize stuff you like so easily so you can come back to it and sort it by like, what project you're on, it helps keep ref hunting from getting overwhelming with the "how do I get BACK to this page?!? *20,000 tabs later* aaaaa too many tabs why *closes all tabs, loses everything forever*" type stuff.

    I think doodling is a great way to help anchor that just-wanna-paint feeling, or doing shorter studies? I totally get it and I'm not totally there yet myself at the moment in terms of harnessing it. I've found that iterating also helps a bit with that urge-- trying things more than one way so I have a better composition-- even though thumbnailing on paintings like that used to feel a lot more frustrating, it's become part of the process for me, and i use that time to vent all that "omg create a thing" energy.

    tynicLamp
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited August 2016
    @Lamp
    Another spoilered for length post:
    It's hard to speak with much definite authority on this because there's so many factors that go into it (and I certainly would not call myself an expert), and the fact that no matter what, there's never going to be a 100% perfect solution to a costume design (or more broadly, a character design). This is purely my 2 cents (and if I'm majoring on one thing more than another, it's not because agree, but because one's been already covered and the other less so).

    One big factor, and it's something that's easy to understand and communicate and rely on, is logic. What's the time, the place, the culture, what's the character's personality, what's their job, what's their rank in society, how much money do they have, how do clothes actually fit on a person, etc. etc. etc. It's easy to do a whole ton of brainwork and ref finding and feel that then you've arrived at a conclusion. But if you leave it there, you're likely to wind up with something that is both impeccably logical, and very likely generic to the point of being uninteresting. A real knight's armor is an exciting concept, real armor is not necessarily of any particular visual interest.

    The other big factor is abstraction; which is something that's difficult to pin down and talk about concretely many times, but is necessary to making your design 'a design' rather than just picking a bunch of bits off the Google Image Search rack. If you look at concept designers, they'll often start off with just abstract silhouette shapes when trying to figure out their costume choices. I've seen a few sketches out of fashion design, and rather than just doing what would seem like the logical thing to do- take a photo or very accurate drawing of a person and draw their clothes atop of it, so they'll be sure their clothes will fit on an actual human- they'll draw these impossibly elongated, stylized figures- because on an abstract level they want to capture a feeling of flowing, swooping gracefulness. When trying to generate ideas, trying to capture a feeling, or pursuing an idea in metaphor, or just outright arbitrariness, can be the factor that elevates just a bunch of clothes, to a design.

    Now, how these factors are balanced depends on the project and the intent. If you're designing costumes for a very realistic show about knights, you're going to hew closer to reality, to logic- since if nothing else, actual humans need to fit in these designs, so they need to be constructed in a certain way or the actors would be unable to move. If you're designing for say, World of Warcraft, the role of pure logic is going to take a back seat- no actual person could walk around with pauldrons the size of Mini Coopers on their shoulders, and even if they could they'd never be able to lift their arms without smashing their head in from both sides. But the FEELING of those designs, of making the characters seem powerful and intimidating, of getting across this heightened fantasy world that at times operates via cartoon logic rather than reality, makes those ridiculous designs nevertheless, successful designs.

    Another thing to think about is format: A real bad guy isn't going to look any different than any other person- and if you're making a show where you slowly find out a guy is a bad guy over the course of 400 episodes, then it makes sense to design in that way. If you're making an illustration with a bad guy and the audience is supposed to know he's a bad guy, even though they've neer seen this guy before and will never see him again and have never read a word about him and never will, and you have the 3 seconds of initial viewer reaction to make "this guy is a bad guy" clear, that realistic approach is likely going to be less effective than even the most generic, "bad guy = spikes, black clothing, metal, leather, blood, scars, etc. etc." approach.

    Or to use another example: a real spacesuit is probably one of the most logically constructed garments ever made- there's probably 500 pages of logic that went into every decision made when designing it. I doubt there's a single thing on it that was arbitrarily decided. Contrast that real spacesuit, with the Moebius designed spacesuit from Alien: it uses a few logical aspects- the dome helmet, the airhoses, etc., but a lot of what's on there makes very very little sense- it's got worn copper samurai-styled armor plates, hockey gloves, cricket pads, weird exposed twine stitching, there's lingere lace in there, there's electronics from old british cars, it's a 2-piece suit when there's never been a 2-piece suit spacesuit in history because that would be very dangerous...as a functional spacesuit, it's a disaster. But as a design of a spacesuit, it's great: because it gets across the FEELING of what it is all about very well: it's about that bulky feel of spacesuits, feeling vulnerable because of the immobility, it's about feeling like it's been around a long time, been knocked around, that it's for people doing the blue collar 'space truckers' work, even as many of the details exist purely for an abstract visual interest. It makes no sense- and yet, it somehow makes perfect sense. It makes more sense than if it actually, well, made sense.

    Video about Adam Savage's replica of said suit and all these cool details in fascinating...well, detail:


    So while yes research and ref are great, if you're having trouble, just simply questing for more and more ref might not crack that nut for you, not give you the confidence of direction you want. So after determining a base level of logic ('male, ranger, he's got this personality, he exists in this setting', etc.), doing a lot of quick thumbnails or silhouettes can help a lot in working to figure out what is interesting on the abstract level.

    Do you want to make them seem edgy? Add spikes. Graceful? More flowing. Representing order, law? Maybe something more symmetrical. Something more chaotic? Asymetrical. How many different permutations of these abstract ideas can you come up with? Can you think of the character in terms of metaphor? An obvious choice for an evil queen character might be to drape her in black- but if you think up a metaphor for her, it may open up more possibilities; perhaps she is like a carnivorous plant, waiting for the hapless to fall into her trap, destroying them- so perhaps draping her in the colors of such a plant, or using aspects of their shape, will yield a more creative design. Perhaps you see this ranger like a tiger, so maybe an idea would to take a cue from the color patterning of a tiger, and use a lighter color on the front of the torso and insides of the arms, and a 2 tone, darker color design on the back. Not necessarily a 'tiger stripe' pattern, but it could be indicated by armor design motif, or leather straps pulled over a differently colored undermaterial. Just a random idea that you can snowball into something.

    Hell, a lot of the more photo-bashy concept artists will just be totally arbitrary with decisions like, "I saw a cool hubcap, so I took half of it, inverted the colors and now it's the top of this guy's sci-fi gauntlet design." At this stage of design, reference images of things that are definitely not clothes, may be more helpful than images of things that are clothes, because a metaphor or abstract idea may be the thing you need more than, 'what's the 100% right belt buckle?' David Bowie used to use a computer program that chopped up and rearranged sentences from news articles to spur ideas; I've used random word generators, or closing my eyes and scribbling, then seeing if I can figure out how to turn those random lines into a design, for the same reason.

    And these ideas I'm throwing out? They might work, they might not work, they might work for something but not the thing you want them to be working on, they might kinda work but not exactly in that way, who knows. Which is why doing a lot of different takes on a design, developing them iterating on them is important, because you're never really going to arrive what's going to work well, until you actually start doing it. If you always try to think your way through the design problem logically, trying to arrive at the "right" solution on try one, you might not have 20 failed designs you spent 3 days drawing wasting space on your desk- but you'd never get to that 21st one that you really ended up loving either. So if this all sounds like a bunch of arbitrary fucking around, well yeah in a way it kinda is- that doesn't mean it's not also incredibly helpful. Because there' never a 100% "right" solution, moving forward is always more productive than wrestling with the paralysis that comes with trying to arrive at one through Sherlock Holmes deduction.

    And once you get that thumbnail you're digging on, THEN you want to get on with bringing in the truckloads of specific clothing ref, working out the problems of how it's actually going to work, how it's going to be constructed, how they'll be able to move in it, how it's going to fit, what's going to bend, what's going to sag, etc. Because it still has to LOOK legit, as a drawing, even if the decisions leading up to that point have been totally arbitrary- can't have gravity just suddenly not apply, or have a dude with arms that are 8 feet long when he's just supposed to be a normal human.
    If you can get my, the viewer's, interest, can get me just to not balk at too many logical leaps, is not conflicting with something else in the project (ie: 2 designs being too similar to distinguish from each other), and you present it confidently enough that I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you meant everything in there intentionally, chances are you've got a pretty good design in your hands.

    Angel_of_Bacon on
    tynicLamptapeslingerProspicience
  • LampLamp Registered User regular
    edited August 2016
    Sage wisdom as usual. Thanks Bacon! I definitely think you are right that I could probably get a long way just by trying to start from a more abstract place when designing costumes, thinking about capturing a feeling or essence of the character. I think I have this fear that I don't know enough about fashion to start with so I default to something really boring or generic. Then I look at real life fashion and I think, "Damn, I would have never come up with those details, or that style, or that cut of fabric." I definitely do know that I've spent too much time in the last five years or so trying to make things up out of my head when it comes to anatomy, lighting, materials and that sort of thing. So my instinct lately is to lean on reference as hard as I can in order to actually learn something. But maybe I'm overthinking it and just need to trust myself a little bit more in the beginning stages of costume concepting.

    Lamp on
  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    @Angel_of_Bacon have you ever considered going into teaching? Because I really think you'd be excellent at it.

    Lamp
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    @NightDragon Thanks, but I think I'd probably enjoy the daydream version of teaching a lot more than the reality (grades, shitty students, hours, pay, qualifications, etc.)
    Among the other issues, I can't imagine students being super excited about a teacher that runs away and spends 3 hours typing out a reply every time he's asked a question. :P

    tynicLampNightDragon
  • m3nacem3nace Registered User regular
    Yyyyeeees
    net neutrality won in the EU and Apple has to pay up to the irish!

    NightDragonFlay
  • FlayFlay Registered User regular
    Goddamnit the USB port on my Intuos has broken AGAIN.

    Is it just me or have wacom's tablets been gradually getting worse?

  • LampLamp Registered User regular
    That's interesting, I have an old Intuos 3 that must be 8 or 9 years old at this point. I used it daily until about a year ago, when I bought my Cintiq, but it still works fine.

  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2016
    I had that happen with an old bamboo (actually might have even been a Graphire, it was a long while back), but never since. And the tablet I take travelling always gets quite a beating. So... not sure. May just be you. Is this always the same Intuos or has it happened across multiple devices?

    tynic on
  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    My wacoms almost all failed via the cord, but the later models of intuos had two ports on them, which helped. My tablet got beat up in school because it traveled so much. Once it was stationary at a desk, It seemed to be a non issue.

    I wonder if I could go back to using an intous if I tried, now.

  • SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    I've had like four different wacom tablets over the years, and none of them failed on me (always upgraded). Similar to Lamp, though, I've always kind of had them on my desk.

  • FlayFlay Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Two different tablets, both of which have failed in the same way. I'm probably just having bad luck, or somehow mistreating my tablet without realising it. Do you guys unplug your tablets (on the tablet side) when you're not using them?

    Flay on
  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    I had a Graphire for 7 years and only then did the cord start to wear out. Intuos 2 for about the same length of time, same issue. Generally if I kept the tablets on my desk and didn't move them around a bunch (only maybe a few times a year, max), they lasted a super long time. Now that Intuos tablets are developed with removable cords I feel like this would be even less of a problem.

    Do you keep the tablet flat on your desk when you use it? Is the cord bent at all at any sharp angle? I feel like the tablets have actually improved over the years. If you're regularly having issues I feel like it's definitely a result of something you're doing, rather than the tablets having manufacturing defects or the like.

    [edit] If I was keeping my tablet on my desk, I virtually never unplugged it.

    NightDragon on
    tynicbowen
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Flay wrote: »
    Two different tablets, both of which have failed in the same way. I'm probably just having bad luck, or somehow mistreating my tablet without realising it. Do you guys unplug your tablets (on the tablet side) when you're not using them?

    yeah, definitely - I mean, not when it's on my desk, but if I'm taking it somewhere.

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    I had a Graphire for 7 years and only then did the cord start to wear out. Intuos 2 for about the same length of time, same issue. Generally if I kept the tablets on my desk and didn't move them around a bunch (only maybe a few times a year, max), they lasted a super long time. Now that Intuos tablets are developed with removable cords I feel like this would be even less of a problem.

    Do you keep the tablet flat on your desk when you use it? Is the cord bent at all at any sharp angle? I feel like the tablets have actually improved over the years. If you're regularly having issues I feel like it's definitely a result of something you're doing, rather than the tablets having manufacturing defects or the like.

    [edit] If I was keeping my tablet on my desk, I virtually never unplugged it.

    I imagine they suffer the same fate as smart phones, excessive connect and disconnect wears down the USB/whatever port on it, especially if the cable is kinked a lot

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
    NightDragon
  • I've had 3 tablets for home use, an Intuos 3, an Intuos 5, and a Cintiq 12, and I believe they've all suffered from the same issue- that of the cord being constantly bent and torqued around around the area that the cord connects to the tablet.
    Right now my Cintiq still works- but I've had to use a couple binder clips to clamp the cord across the top of the tablet, so that the cord remains in the same position. Otherwise, one of the color channels knocks out and it turns everything blue (da ba dee ba be dah). ):

    I haven't any problems with the Cintiq 21s/22s I've used at any of the places I've worked at though, probably because the larger Cintiqs remain mostly in the same position all the time and the cords come out of the center of the back, while the smaller tablets have the cords coming out of the top and I'm constantly moving them from the top of my computer tower where it's out of the way, to my lap when I want to use it.
    There's probably a better desk setup I could manage to keep it in a more static position (maybe rigging up an easel kinda setup? Just laying it flat is no bueno for drawing/back health position), but I think I'll just wait for this one to fail all the way and then finally take the plunge on a larger model; deal with that ergonomics bridge when it comes.

    (Aside: I also have a headphone jack that's wearing out, and has required a similarly dumb jury-rigged solution to keep it in the correct position: cord coming out of the top of my tower, where it bends around a can of racquetballs I've affixed there with some kneaded rubber eraser bits, which then comes down and is binder clipped to the edge of my desk to keep the whole thing secured down. My point is that is if I put in just a bit more effort into my solutions to keep my shit functioning- like I put some gears or erector set bits in there somehow- my desk might have a charmingly ramshackle aesthetic. Too bad it just looks cheap and stupid as of right now.)

  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    When I was in college I learned to open up my ipods to replace and re-solder the jacks and never looked back. Now if something breaks and its out of warranty, I crack that shit open. I've never done that with a wacom, but by the time I was any good at it I had a working one that didn't quit on me.

    I pretty much figure if my yiynova dies again, I'll try to fix it myself and if I cant, I'll just buck up and get the cintiq.

  • ProspicienceProspicience The Raven King DenvemoloradoRegistered User regular
    edited September 2016
    I've luckily never had the cord connectivity problem with my intuos 3 (which I believe I've had for 10 years now?) - I have however had my intuos cord chewed through by my dog and subsequently have had to re-solder it back together twice. If it happens again I'm going to run out of cord close to where it connects to the tablet. That will be an interesting project if it gets that far, but for now it's fine.

    In other news, just watched The Little Prince last night (for the first time) with my girlfriend for her birthday. Holy shittles, the paper art is absolutely incredible in that movie. My jaw may be permanently unhinged from my skull.

    Prospicience on
    NightDragon
  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    In other news, just watched The Little Prince last night (for the first time) with my girlfriend for her birthday. Holy shittles, the paper art is absolutely incredible in that movie. My jaw may be permanently unhinged from my skull.

    Oooo, I'll have to check it out. I just recently saw a trailer for it and it seemed pretty cool.

  • gavindelgavindel The reason all your software is brokenRegistered User regular
    The ulna and the tibia are both medial at the neutral position.
    The acroniom process hooks from the scapula to meet the clavicle over the shoulder.
    The serratus anterior and the lateralus mingle over the ribs to shield the secrets of man.
    The sartorius connects the iliac crest to the dark secrets of the elder gods.
    Do not disturb that which sleeps beneath the patella, guarded by the meniscus to forever sleep without dying.

    I've got a book! Angels, innovations, and the hubris of tiny things: Seraphim
  • LampLamp Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    So, I'm about to turn 30 next month, and my girlfriend just revealed that as a gift she wants to pay my way to do the 6-day Illustration Boot Camp workshop at Watts Atelier in January. She already put down the (small) down payment to save me a spot, and the rest of the money is due in a month or two. It's pretty damn pricey by my standards (~$1,300) but she recently got a promotion at work, and since I guess you only turn 30 once, she wanted to do something a bit extravagant.

    So I don't know if the price is a bit much for how much benefit I'll realistically get out of the whole thing -- I really don't. And I have one big concern, which is that (since it's a traditional atelier) the demos during the workshop will all be focused on oil painting, and all the instructors (Erik Gist, Lucas Graciano, Michael C. Hayes, Dave Palumbo) are oil painters. I've barely touched physical paint ever in my life. In theory it would be amazing to go to school to learn how to oil paint, but this is just a one-week workshop we're talking about here.

    I emailed one of the instructors to see how digital-friendly it might be, and he said they've had a few digital artists attend both of the previous years of the workshop, including a couple of who did both years, and he said they seemed to get a lot out of it. Since of course most of the instruction translates fairly easily from one medium to the next. There is some time spent directly addressing traditional techniques, though. For some reason I'm still feeling kind of hesitant because of the medium issue, but I still do REALLY want to go. Hmmmmm!

    Lamp on
  • Well, I would say go and and at least try- I doubt that all of a sudden you're going to be an amazing oil painter or something, but more important than that is getting to spend time with illustrators that really, really know what they're doing, not just in technique but ethos and career development as well.

    As for the immediate worries about using oils for the (first?) time- how much of leap it's going to be from digital will probably depend on how you work currently. If you are careful and deliberate in your drawing phase and are diligent in thinking through your painting decisions before laying down brushstrokes, it may not give you that much trouble- though there are certainly quirks to learn. If you prefer to slop a lot of colors down really quickly and sort things out through trial and error in the painting phase, oils will be a lot more challenging to grapple with. (I've definitely been of the latter camp, and oils have never been my most comfortable medium as a result...which probably means I should do it more often, to kick my bad/sloppy habits.)

    In any case, you've got a few months to try things out before you get there, so if you're hesitant I might recommend getting your hands on a few tubes of paint and some cheap boards and try some things out beforehand. Some things you might want to try:

    -Burnt umber pickout. Draw on the board loosely with pencil or paint, then coat the whole board with a diluted, even tone of burnt umber. Use a kneaded rubber eraser to pick up the paint in the highlights, and apply thicker strokes of burnt umber for darker areas. As an exercise this is essentially just drawing, but it helps as a way to ease into the medium, since it'll all be principles you're familiar with.
    -Do some other studies starting in the same manner, but let the painting dry. Then, go in with black and white in the shadows and highlights, following the same sort of value drawing idea.
    -Try a duotone study, using black, white, and one other color (ala http://muddycolors.blogspot.com/2012/08/duotone-illustrations.html). This should help keep things mostly still with the idea of value, but helps you focus on getting the idea of regulating saturation for the best effect down (ie: using grays as a warm contrast to a cool color, or as a cool contrast to a warm color). This is an important thing that a lot of beginners leap past in trying to work a bunch of colors into their paintings, but it's a really important and often overlooked aspect to making a painting look realistic.
    -Try a Zorn palette study- that is, using black, white, yellow ochre, and cadmium red medium. It's a limited palette- but with a good sense of drawing, carefulness with mixing, and knowledge of saturation that you should pick up through the duotone illustration, it's nevertheless capable of acting as full, rich palette. If you can get even a quarter-way comfortable with working with that limited palette, you'll probably find you'll be in very good shape for this class.

    Even if you don't get that far, the teachers will all know where you're at and what you're talking about if you say that you've only gotten to such-and-such stage, and will teach accordingly.

    Lamptynic
  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    I just did Embarrassing Thing

    how does one overcome the horror of doing Embarrassing Thing

    please cover me in dogs

    bowentynicalltheolive
  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    I just did Embarrassing Thing

    how does one overcome the horror of doing Embarrassing Thing

    please cover me in dogs

    Well you already posted the remedy - thorough application of pups to the face.

    Is it as embarrassing as showing up to a party the day after the party? Because I did that

    Wassermelone on
    ProspicienceNightDragon
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    2MC0m29l.jpg

    here's one, she likes to be held and snuggled

    I had to give her back though

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
    WassermeloneNightDragon
  • LampLamp Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Thanks for the advice @Angel_of_Bacon ! That makes me feel better. I definitely think that getting to spend time with those artists is the No.1 draw of the workshop for me, far above any particular bit of instruction I might get.
    Well, I would say go and and at least try- I doubt that all of a sudden you're going to be an amazing oil painter or something, but more important than that is getting to spend time with illustrators that really, really know what they're doing, not just in technique but ethos and career development as well.

    So do you think my best bet would be to try to find a way to do some oil painting at the workshop no matter what? I am absolutely going to try to do some of those oil exercises you suggested, and I'm kind of excited about it! Although I am admittedly very intimidated by the idea of painting with oils (never touched them before), and I'm skeptical of the idea of painting with them much in the future without any prolonged instruction to get me started. So part of me thinks it would be more productive to just go in and work digitially during the workshop and hopefully get some good feedback and direction regardless of medium.

    Perhaps I'll have a better idea though once I actually get my hands on some paints and try them out this weekend.

    Lamp on
  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    I just did Embarrassing Thing

    how does one overcome the horror of doing Embarrassing Thing

    please cover me in dogs

    Well you already posted the remedy - thorough application of pups to the face.

    Is it as embarrassing as showing up to a party the day after the party? Because I did that

    I sent a somewhat personal email to a friend of mine at her personal email address and her work email (previously MY workplace too), and I accidentally ended up sending it to a mailing list at her work, instead of her personal work email hahaha...

    ...it's truly probably not a huge deal, and that mailing list should be somewhat small...I know at least half the people on it and they're nice. There's a chance that it's an old mailing list and the email didn't actually reach anybody's inbox though, so....I'm just going to pretend that's exactly what happened, and cover myself in dogs anyway.

    Wassermelone
  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Oops. Yeah I'm sure its fine - mostly in embarrassing situations the one who cares the most is yourself

    And on accidental emails, I accidentally emailed a lady not at the company (or even the games industry or nerd related industry) an in progress illustration for a game that contained a 'sexy zombie nurse lady in awkward sexy video gamey pose' (not my choice of illustration).

    They didn't respond. I didn't say anything further. Better to just let that one go :|

    Apply dogs to face!

    Wassermelone on
    NightDragon
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