Yeah, but you can interrupt regardless of what talent you take. If we're doing hyperboles, raiding with the cool fishing pole is obviously ok because it's better than jumping off the cliff. Or something, I'm not very good at this. Anyway, if you fail with the more complex talent, you should take the stupid boring talent instead. And since they're more or less equal when you fail very little.. why would you ever take the more complex talent? It's inevitable that any player will make mistakes.
Also, the fact that making a mistake with Blackout Combo (and other more interesting talent choices) isn't very impactful is part of the problem I have with this. It should matter what you do, what buttons you press.
One thing that makes me happy with the early dungeons is tank damage being relevant. I'm often above some dps players even in boss fights.. could be it's the dps or their gear to blame, but regardless it's so much better than doing <30% of what dps does. It matters, especially in 5 mans. I hope this does scale into raids at least somewhat.
The issue here is you are trying so hard to convince others how you feel, all while not realizing this is how YOU feel. Yet you are trying to claim it is bad design as fact.
What we have countered with is fact. You feeling forced to take a talent because its easier is an opinion. One that should already be obvious isn't shared. It being properly balanced because... the talent choices are performance balanced IS fact. It is not an opinion when the damage dealt by option x is within 1% of option y.
Therefore, everything you are saying is how you feel. That is great. But its not bad design because YOU feel forced. It is good design because you, actually, are not BEING forced. Numbers force you, not playstyles.
That is all well and good you would choose the easiest option because it is easy. They also have easy difficulty settings in single player games. That is because not everyone chooses (and enjoys) the easiest option.
Um, the more complex talent option being shittier isn't really about how I feel. I feel. I guess. It's like.. some people also might enjoy playing with their feet. It's harder, it might be more fun for them, but chances are it's not going to work out better than playing the regular way.
But fine, whatever. I feel it is an incredibly stupid, ass backwards design that less effort should yield the same results as more efforts. But maybe others feel it makes sense, somehow.
Um, the more complex talent option being shittier isn't really about how I feel. I feel. I guess. It's like.. some people also might enjoy playing with their feet. It's harder, it might be more fun for them, but chances are it's not going to work out better than playing the regular way.
But fine, whatever. I feel it is an incredibly stupid, ass backwards design that less effort should yield the same results as more efforts. But maybe others feel it makes sense, somehow.
just because you feel strongly enough about an opinion doesn't level it up to a fact.
Seriously though, you are typing out a response online and you have all the time in the world to type it, yet somehow you literally wrote in such a way that you are trying to convince yourself you are right at this point. You can let it go man, your opinion is still fine, just get over the fact that others just flat out don't think the same way.
There's a lot of stuff to do. I made a list of things to get done like professions quests, some zone stuff. Nothing is getting crossed off because stuff keeps popping up.
That banshee rare elite world quest in one of the zones today was a slog. Mostly because it kept gaining health from people randomly tagging it then giving up. It takes a while for the health to drop when it scales up.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
But fine, whatever. I feel it is an incredibly stupid, ass backwards design that less effort should yield the same results as more efforts. But maybe others feel it makes sense, somehow.
Reverse it.
People should not be forced to play the highest effort talent because it's the best.
A good example for mages in WoD was Rune of Power and Incanter's Flow.
Rune of Power, used perfectly, was around 5% better than Incanter's Flow. But it was tedious and complicated to manage the uptime properly, and if you mucked it up it fell back to being equal with Incanter's Flow. But because it was THEORETICALLY better, everyone had to take Rune of Power.
They brought back the robotic auctioneer in the Engineer area in Dalaran, and also hotfixed the module for Reaves so it doesn't require feasts anymore.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Um, the more complex talent option being shittier isn't really about how I feel. I feel. I guess. It's like.. some people also might enjoy playing with their feet. It's harder, it might be more fun for them, but chances are it's not going to work out better than playing the regular way.
But fine, whatever. I feel it is an incredibly stupid, ass backwards design that less effort should yield the same results as more efforts. But maybe others feel it makes sense, somehow.
People just value different things.
There were people confused earlier why someone would speed run legion content and race for max level. That's because they don't value the same thing as the racers. For racers the challenge of getting to max level as fast as possible or to do it first before. They practice over and over on beta to find the quickest path even though the game does not explicitly acknowledge it. It's just a personal achievement. Many people don't understand that and/or simply prefer to take their time. Both attitudes are fine.
In this case the people who want additional complexity can have it and the ones who want less things to think about can have it too. I wouldn't make the choice to have additional complexity if it offered the same survivability or damage output for a variety of reasons but having the option is nice for those who want more of a challenge. It doesn't take anything away.
They brought back the robotic auctioneer in the Engineer area in Dalaran, and also hotfixed the module for Reaves so it doesn't require feasts anymore.
Is it Engineer only or can anyone use it? The AH is bananas at the moment. After seeing the cash from that obliterum quest I'm regretting not prepping for this expansion. Was busy playing Total Warhammer since it came out.
I am really tempted to level my other druid who is a herb/miner because of all the mad cash on offer at the moment. It was 750g to get ore for 5 gem chips for a quest and the ore prices are still high.
Yeah, I mean it's not really good having talents that perform differently. But I don't really see any choice now either, the best talents are the simplest ones. The baseline is you have one of the talents, and assuming they're all equally balanced you get the same results no matter what you pick. At that point it's a matter of the playstyle preference. But like, I want more involved options. But I don't want complexity for it's own sake, there has to be a point to it as well. So, like I've already mentioned a few times, the talent that's fun for me is also the talent that's the most pointless. I don't get why you'd make it more harder for yourself to get the same results.
Or rather, I do, for challenge's sake. But in group play I'm not going to gimp everybody for that, I'd rather perform as well as I can. Nobody's going to complain to me about it either way, but it feels stupid.
Anyway, this is kind of pointless. The talent design sucks from my point of view, it makes me feel bad about using the talents I find the most fun. The old thing where passive abilities were mostly worse did similar thing for other people. It sucks for me, but I guess I need to live and play with it anyway.
And for fuck's sake, I'm not trying to convince myself, what the hell are you on about
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I think that, if you want to talk specifics too, I disagree that Blackout Combo and High Tolerance are equal. How the hell do you math "more stagger" vs "different buffs to different abilities"?
I would be very surprised if anyone can actually prove they are equal.
I think that, if you want to talk specifics too, I disagree that Blackout Combo and High Tolerance are equal. How the hell do you math "more stagger" vs "different buffs to different abilities"?
I would be very surprised if anyone can actually prove they are equal.
I'm pretty sure Legion talents are a triumphant middle finger to mathing talents against each other. It has to be a deliberate design decision to make each choice apples vs. oranges
I am kinda bummed that Blessed Hammer beats out the other talents in the top row for prot pallies in most contexts
I love the immediate klong of Hammer of the Righteous. Much more viscerally satisfying than swirly sparkle hammers.
Or rather, I do, for challenge's sake. But in group play I'm not going to gimp everybody for that, I'd rather perform as well as I can.
To give an example counter to my own of "whatever I want as long as it fits my playstyle for that class/spec", my old roommate wouldn't trade any kind of DPS gain for any amount of convenience, ever. If a talent was 0.5% more damage when done at the theoretical best possible, that was the one that he picked and he adjusted his playstyle to get the most out of the talent. It all comes down to "Risk vs Reward", where the risk here is the complexity the talent adds or removes vs the reward of higher or lower dps. Some will find the Low Risk talents to be the best option, since it minimizes the human part of the equation and smooths out the average benefit, while others will still opt for the High Risk talents since they don't care about the average but are striving for the maximum benefit.
I'm just glad that I'm not being forced into taking the High Risk talent because it's got a 10% lead on the Low Risk talent, that I can choose the added complexity of the High Risk if I still want the Highest Reward possible, or just coast along and be OK with the Low Risk one. Granted, this isn't the case with every talent row of every class, but it's great that it is the case for most of them.
So I just finished Highmountain. Or at least got the quest achievement that says I have done all the story quests there.
Now what? Do I have to physically walk to the next zone or something? Because I kind of want to do Azsuna and get my prof to start leveling, but all my FP are in Highmountain. I have got a quest for Val shara but no way to get there aside from walking.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
So I just finished Highmountain. Or at least got the quest achievement that says I have done all the story quests there.
Now what? Do I have to physically walk to the next zone or something? Because I kind of want to do Azsuna and get my prof to start leveling, but all my FP are in Highmountain. I have got a quest for Val shara but no way to get there aside from walking.
Go back to your order hall and use the map again.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited September 2016
So, Obliterum. If you have Rank 3 Leather Bindings, you're averaging ~22 Obliterum Ash per 110 Stonehide Leather (the cost of the Bindings at that rank), or ~550 Stonehide Leather per Obliterum.
This is ludicrously cheap at the moment given how cheap Leather is in relation to Obliterum. And you're not crafting Chests/Helm/Masks that every guide seems to suggest you do, which take both Blood of Sargeras and Felhide by contrast even at Rank 3.
So I just finished Highmountain. Or at least got the quest achievement that says I have done all the story quests there.
Now what? Do I have to physically walk to the next zone or something? Because I kind of want to do Azsuna and get my prof to start leveling, but all my FP are in Highmountain. I have got a quest for Val shara but no way to get there aside from walking.
Go back to your order hall and use the map again.
Yeah, this is something I reported in beta but they never did anything about: you don't get the official "you're done with this zone, go do another one" quest until after you do the dungeon quest, get that area's Pillar, and turn it in at Dalaran. I'd argue you should get that quest when you pop the achievement or when you complete that quest, whichever happens first. Especially since you can go back to your class hall and pick to go to a new zone any time after you finish the zone you're in's starting questline.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
On the other hand skipping the dungeon quest while leveling is really silly
On the other hand skipping the dungeon quest while leveling is really silly
How so?
as the wait seems to be about 45 minutes and I have better things to do with my time
You're getting 45 min waits?
I find that hard to believe unless you havn't actually tried since the expansion launched. I'm on a low pop cluster and I'm getting less then a minute wait as dps.
I've noticed that if you have the dungeon quest the queue is at most a minute. I'm not sure if they're pushing you to the front of the line because of the quest, or if queuing for a specific instance speeds up the process, but I've been getting right in to dungeons that way instead of the hour wait if I choose a random dungeon
Oh, I did just get a quest for a dungeon so I'll try that.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
the quests are worth 150k xp and award an 800 ilvl item regardless of what level you do them, so they are a great boost while levelling.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Anyone know of an addon to track world quest repop timer?
I've been using World Quest Tracker, which does a great job categorizing the quests, allows you to filter out ones you don't want to see (bye Pet Battle WQs) and also handily displays them on the Broken Isles map instead of requiring you to check each zone. But it'd be good to have a timer for when the next set of WQs are due to spawn, as right now I'm basically clearing the map every time they spawn.
Dps on my server has 1+ hour wait.
In short I have yet to set my foot in a new instance.
I have as a healer as it's less than a 2 minute wait because I get afk dps usually
But healing dungeons as holy is fun not self inflicted wound kind of fun but fun for once
So Violet Hold is kinda buggy if you wipe. We were doing a mythic one when our tank lagged out and died, so we wiped with one elite pack up and another elite pack spawning from the last portal before the mini-boss at the end. We tried everyone releasing at once but two elite packs are a nightmare to kill (and we'd used all our crystals) and couldn't do it, so we let the door die and just said we'd let it reset and do the whole third part again.
It was a smart plan, but the mini boss had spawned already. So when we went back in after the reset, the crystals that kill all the adds that constantly spawn before you start killed the mini boss and forced the felguard boss to spawn. Then the portals started again, so now we had the final boss of the instance and the constantly spawning trash packs at the same time. After we wiped, the boss despawned and the mini boss respawned. Then the boss respawned. So now we're fighting the constantly spawning trash portals, the mini boss, and the final boss all at the same time.
Ended up buying Legion last night and boosting my first Horde character ever (Tauren Druid) to 100. Those Legion opening cinematics don't fuck around, do they? Though I will say I'm more than a little lost given I only have a passing familiarity with the big horde characters apparently.
Two completely unrelated questions -
1. Did they break/remove titles on purpose? I can't see mine or anyone else's above their heads, and I don't see an option anywhere for turning them on or off. I liked titles :?
2. Does anyone have a good actionbar mod recommendation for something where you can set bars to be stance-specific? The default actionbars are woefully inadequate for druids.
2. Does anyone have a good actionbar mod recommendation for something where you can set bars to be stance-specific? The default actionbars are woefully inadequate for druids.
Third Withered Training now, including the first free one. The first two were sad failures mostly, the third was pretty damn good. Got two glimmering chests and a medium one. And somehow managed to kill Leystalker without losing any troops. I'm kind of uncertain how that happened, but it was pretty nice thing! I hate that mob.
I looked around and couldn't find one...I guess there's no general AH in new Dalaran?
And I've been coming across mobs that have a ! on their nameplate, but they aren't part of the quests I'm on (there's a few outside of Black Rook Hold, for example). Are those for World Quests?
Posts
Yup, not sure how many servers are affected, but it seems like a lot.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
The issue here is you are trying so hard to convince others how you feel, all while not realizing this is how YOU feel. Yet you are trying to claim it is bad design as fact.
What we have countered with is fact. You feeling forced to take a talent because its easier is an opinion. One that should already be obvious isn't shared. It being properly balanced because... the talent choices are performance balanced IS fact. It is not an opinion when the damage dealt by option x is within 1% of option y.
Therefore, everything you are saying is how you feel. That is great. But its not bad design because YOU feel forced. It is good design because you, actually, are not BEING forced. Numbers force you, not playstyles.
That is all well and good you would choose the easiest option because it is easy. They also have easy difficulty settings in single player games. That is because not everyone chooses (and enjoys) the easiest option.
But fine, whatever. I feel it is an incredibly stupid, ass backwards design that less effort should yield the same results as more efforts. But maybe others feel it makes sense, somehow.
Ugh. My Horde side Paladin is bugged and can't get the quest to start Legion.
She does have Khadgar's Upgraded Servant stalking her everywhere. It's not offering any quests. It just looms.
just because you feel strongly enough about an opinion doesn't level it up to a fact.
Seriously though, you are typing out a response online and you have all the time in the world to type it, yet somehow you literally wrote in such a way that you are trying to convince yourself you are right at this point. You can let it go man, your opinion is still fine, just get over the fact that others just flat out don't think the same way.
That banshee rare elite world quest in one of the zones today was a slog. Mostly because it kept gaining health from people randomly tagging it then giving up. It takes a while for the health to drop when it scales up.
Reverse it.
People should not be forced to play the highest effort talent because it's the best.
A good example for mages in WoD was Rune of Power and Incanter's Flow.
Rune of Power, used perfectly, was around 5% better than Incanter's Flow. But it was tedious and complicated to manage the uptime properly, and if you mucked it up it fell back to being equal with Incanter's Flow. But because it was THEORETICALLY better, everyone had to take Rune of Power.
They brought back the robotic auctioneer in the Engineer area in Dalaran, and also hotfixed the module for Reaves so it doesn't require feasts anymore.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
People just value different things.
There were people confused earlier why someone would speed run legion content and race for max level. That's because they don't value the same thing as the racers. For racers the challenge of getting to max level as fast as possible or to do it first before. They practice over and over on beta to find the quickest path even though the game does not explicitly acknowledge it. It's just a personal achievement. Many people don't understand that and/or simply prefer to take their time. Both attitudes are fine.
In this case the people who want additional complexity can have it and the ones who want less things to think about can have it too. I wouldn't make the choice to have additional complexity if it offered the same survivability or damage output for a variety of reasons but having the option is nice for those who want more of a challenge. It doesn't take anything away.
Is it Engineer only or can anyone use it? The AH is bananas at the moment. After seeing the cash from that obliterum quest I'm regretting not prepping for this expansion. Was busy playing Total Warhammer since it came out.
I am really tempted to level my other druid who is a herb/miner because of all the mad cash on offer at the moment. It was 750g to get ore for 5 gem chips for a quest and the ore prices are still high.
Or rather, I do, for challenge's sake. But in group play I'm not going to gimp everybody for that, I'd rather perform as well as I can. Nobody's going to complain to me about it either way, but it feels stupid.
Anyway, this is kind of pointless. The talent design sucks from my point of view, it makes me feel bad about using the talents I find the most fun. The old thing where passive abilities were mostly worse did similar thing for other people. It sucks for me, but I guess I need to live and play with it anyway.
And for fuck's sake, I'm not trying to convince myself, what the hell are you on about
I would be very surprised if anyone can actually prove they are equal.
About 2 ilvls from being able to do heroics
Suramar is basically Fallout: Azeroth and I love it
I'm pretty sure Legion talents are a triumphant middle finger to mathing talents against each other. It has to be a deliberate design decision to make each choice apples vs. oranges
I love the immediate klong of Hammer of the Righteous. Much more viscerally satisfying than swirly sparkle hammers.
To give an example counter to my own of "whatever I want as long as it fits my playstyle for that class/spec", my old roommate wouldn't trade any kind of DPS gain for any amount of convenience, ever. If a talent was 0.5% more damage when done at the theoretical best possible, that was the one that he picked and he adjusted his playstyle to get the most out of the talent. It all comes down to "Risk vs Reward", where the risk here is the complexity the talent adds or removes vs the reward of higher or lower dps. Some will find the Low Risk talents to be the best option, since it minimizes the human part of the equation and smooths out the average benefit, while others will still opt for the High Risk talents since they don't care about the average but are striving for the maximum benefit.
I'm just glad that I'm not being forced into taking the High Risk talent because it's got a 10% lead on the Low Risk talent, that I can choose the added complexity of the High Risk if I still want the Highest Reward possible, or just coast along and be OK with the Low Risk one. Granted, this isn't the case with every talent row of every class, but it's great that it is the case for most of them.
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Now what? Do I have to physically walk to the next zone or something? Because I kind of want to do Azsuna and get my prof to start leveling, but all my FP are in Highmountain. I have got a quest for Val shara but no way to get there aside from walking.
Go back to your order hall and use the map again.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
This is ludicrously cheap at the moment given how cheap Leather is in relation to Obliterum. And you're not crafting Chests/Helm/Masks that every guide seems to suggest you do, which take both Blood of Sargeras and Felhide by contrast even at Rank 3.
Currently DMing: None
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[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Yeah, this is something I reported in beta but they never did anything about: you don't get the official "you're done with this zone, go do another one" quest until after you do the dungeon quest, get that area's Pillar, and turn it in at Dalaran. I'd argue you should get that quest when you pop the achievement or when you complete that quest, whichever happens first. Especially since you can go back to your class hall and pick to go to a new zone any time after you finish the zone you're in's starting questline.
How so?
as the wait seems to be about 45 minutes and I have better things to do with my time
You're getting 45 min waits?
I find that hard to believe unless you havn't actually tried since the expansion launched. I'm on a low pop cluster and I'm getting less then a minute wait as dps.
In short I have yet to set my foot in a new instance.
I've been using World Quest Tracker, which does a great job categorizing the quests, allows you to filter out ones you don't want to see (bye Pet Battle WQs) and also handily displays them on the Broken Isles map instead of requiring you to check each zone. But it'd be good to have a timer for when the next set of WQs are due to spawn, as right now I'm basically clearing the map every time they spawn.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
I have as a healer as it's less than a 2 minute wait because I get afk dps usually
But healing dungeons as holy is fun not self inflicted wound kind of fun but fun for once
It was a smart plan, but the mini boss had spawned already. So when we went back in after the reset, the crystals that kill all the adds that constantly spawn before you start killed the mini boss and forced the felguard boss to spawn. Then the portals started again, so now we had the final boss of the instance and the constantly spawning trash packs at the same time. After we wiped, the boss despawned and the mini boss respawned. Then the boss respawned. So now we're fighting the constantly spawning trash portals, the mini boss, and the final boss all at the same time.
We didn't finish it.
Two completely unrelated questions -
1. Did they break/remove titles on purpose? I can't see mine or anyone else's above their heads, and I don't see an option anywhere for turning them on or off. I liked titles :?
2. Does anyone have a good actionbar mod recommendation for something where you can set bars to be stance-specific? The default actionbars are woefully inadequate for druids.
Doesn't mean we didn't try!
I've used Bartender for ages, it's pretty good.
And I've been coming across mobs that have a ! on their nameplate, but they aren't part of the quests I'm on (there's a few outside of Black Rook Hold, for example). Are those for World Quests?
Also, go home server shutdown timer, you're drunk.