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Self Built vs Retail

HenslerHensler Registered User regular
Hey folks - sorry if this has been asked already, but I'm still in Iraq and dealing with an extremely slow connection. I'm coming home in a little under 2 months and need a new gaming rig to replace the dinosaur I previously had, so I can get caught up on all the games I missed in the end of 06 and 07. From what I've been reading, Crysis seems to be the current benchmark for building a system.

I'm looking at spending $2500-$3000 on a system (Just the tower - I've already got the high end monitor and other accesories) at the begining of February. Am I better off ordering components or buying a retail rig such as an Alienware or Dell XPS? A few years ago, self-built was a no brainer. Will I still get a much better system for my money if I build everything myself? And what should I be looking for, technology wise in February, since I havn't been in the States for over a year? Have you guys invented VR brain implants yet? Thanks for the help!

Hensler on

Posts

  • mastmanmastman Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    with that much dough ready to be spent, you can build a top of the line rig. Those pre-built ones still have a ton of fluff price added to them.

    You can SLI two nVidia 8800s, put some large SATA drives in, and about 2-4 gigs of ram on top of a 2.2+ GHz core 2 and still be under 3k*


    *depending on how fast of a core 2 you get and how much memory you get with your graphics cards

    mastman on
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  • KarennaKarenna Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I still believe that self-built rigs are the way to go.

    Yes, there are deals to be had at the big PC makers, but you know you will get the parts you want when doing it yourself. I generally tell folks that if you were going to spend over $1500 on a new comp, you'd be better off doing it yourself.


    What's your pet camel spider's name?

    Karenna on
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  • KeamienKeamien Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    You do NOT need to spend that much money!

    I was in the same boat as you, I hit up Fry's, chatted up the fellows there, and they got my price down to $1000 less than I was intending to spend. I still got what I wanted.

    Get an 8800GT though, or SLI it if you want. If you feel like overclocking them, you can match one 8800GT to an GTX. and the GTs are half the price.

    Keamien on
  • ASimPersonASimPerson Cold... and hard.Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I upgraded to a pretty decent system earlier this year for well under a $1000. You could really go all-out with $2000.

    That said, I think most people who self-build aren't really going to stop. Back in the day it was about saving money (at least it was for me). Nowadays, with PCs being commodities, it's about knowing exactly what parts are in your system and that you'll be able to easily upgrade it in the future if necessary.

    ASimPerson on
  • MeatPopSICKleMeatPopSICKle Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Build it yourself. No brainer. When i built this one, my third system, i was just going to buy one from a manufactuer. After looking into it and finding zero that met my requirments and cost the same as doing it myself, i just newegg'ed it.

    As for whats the hot shit right now, 8800gt's are looking to be a big deal for there cost/benefit. Id wait until febuary to see what ati counters with before being dead set on anything though. With that much cash dedicated to a pc id suggest quad core as future proofing, and perhaps even 4 gigs of ram. With the kind of money you're tossing at this thing you can really build it to be a contender with top of the line games for atleast 3 years, and a solid system for 5.

    MeatPopSICKle on
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  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    The only thing to stress on self-builds is to be prepared to put the time in. You AREN'T just spending money on this.


    When I built my current PC back in July (or maybe August) it took a full day just to get it to together, and even then, it has taken until now to work out most of the incompatability issues, and driver conflicts, and the like (mostly because it's biggest issue was freezing/rebooting under load, but only sometimes.)

    Make sure you can afford not only the cost, but to spend the time on troubleshooting, and swapping componants if necessary.



    The one other thing I'd say, though, is that, this being my first build, I feel FAR more ownership of this PC than of any other PC I've owned before. Everytime I use it, for any little thing, I get a sense of accomplishment at actually putting it together myself. I also had the opportunity to learn a lot more about computers in the process, which was great.

    So building definitely does have non-monetary benefits as well.

    Evander on
  • powersurgepowersurge Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Self built is the way to go. You get way more for your money. I'd avoid SLI atm though. Build with it in mind but only pick up a single card solution. 99% of the time its just not worth it but you never know what the future may bring so its nice to have the option later. Not to mention supposedly the Nvidia 9 series will be hitting any time now.

    powersurge on
  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Evander wrote: »
    The only thing to stress on self-builds is to be prepared to put the time in. You AREN'T just spending money on this.


    When I built my current PC back in July (or maybe August) it took a full day just to get it to together, and even then, it has taken until now to work out most of the incompatability issues, and driver conflicts, and the like (mostly because it's biggest issue was freezing/rebooting under load, but only sometimes.)

    Make sure you can afford not only the cost, but to spend the time on troubleshooting, and swapping componants if necessary.



    The one other thing I'd say, though, is that, this being my first build, I feel FAR more ownership of this PC than of any other PC I've owned before. Everytime I use it, for any little thing, I get a sense of accomplishment at actually putting it together myself. I also had the opportunity to learn a lot more about computers in the process, which was great.

    So building definitely does have non-monetary benefits as well.

    Also when you build it yourself you'll generally be in a far better position to maintain and diagnose any problems with it. Pre-built dells and HPs are filled with mystery components and software that will be on the system doing something, but it's not always what you might thing. And when something goes wrong you'll find it's difficult to track down information as to which motherboard or network interface or onboard audio codec those clowns installed on your pc.

    Brolo on
  • DrFrylockDrFrylock Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I used to be a big advocate of self-built systems but nowadays I'm not so sure. The argument is best for high-end machines but consider this: you have to be 100% of your own tech support. If everything goes well, that's great and you can feel all sorts of pride and everything. But oh no, a week into it your machine starts bluescreening for no particular reason. Now it's on you: is it heat? Bad RAM? Did that one time you touched the video card without your ESD strap make a capacitor leaky? Maybe the motherboard is marginal. Maybe the power supply is flaky. Now in order to test some of that stuff, you need extra parts. Which you have to borrow or buy.

    Yes, it's great if everything works fine. But it sucks complete ass if it doesn't.

    Also I can't fathom spending $3000 on a box these days. The depreciation is just so goddamn bad. In six months you'll be able to buy a machine just as powerful for $600.

    DrFrylock on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Rolo wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    The only thing to stress on self-builds is to be prepared to put the time in. You AREN'T just spending money on this.


    When I built my current PC back in July (or maybe August) it took a full day just to get it to together, and even then, it has taken until now to work out most of the incompatability issues, and driver conflicts, and the like (mostly because it's biggest issue was freezing/rebooting under load, but only sometimes.)

    Make sure you can afford not only the cost, but to spend the time on troubleshooting, and swapping componants if necessary.



    The one other thing I'd say, though, is that, this being my first build, I feel FAR more ownership of this PC than of any other PC I've owned before. Everytime I use it, for any little thing, I get a sense of accomplishment at actually putting it together myself. I also had the opportunity to learn a lot more about computers in the process, which was great.

    So building definitely does have non-monetary benefits as well.

    Also when you build it yourself you'll generally be in a far better position to maintain and diagnose any problems with it. Pre-built dells and HPs are filled with mystery components and software that will be on the system doing something, but it's not always what you might thing. And when something goes wrong you'll find it's difficult to track down information as to which motherboard or network interface or onboard audio codec those clowns installed on your pc.

    Indeed.

    When I check the error log, and see that some driver didn't like my motherboard that day, I know whether it is something necessary for my video card to run, or if it is the remnants of a USB PCI card that I upgraded ages ago.

    Evander on
  • EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    DrFrylock wrote: »
    I used to be a big advocate of self-built systems but nowadays I'm not so sure. The argument is best for high-end machines but consider this: you have to be 100% of your own tech support. If everything goes well, that's great and you can feel all sorts of pride and everything. But oh no, a week into it your machine starts bluescreening for no particular reason. Now it's on you: is it heat? Bad RAM? Did that one time you touched the video card without your ESD strap make a capacitor leaky? Maybe the motherboard is marginal. Maybe the power supply is flaky. Now in order to test some of that stuff, you need extra parts. Which you have to borrow or buy.

    Yes, it's great if everything works fine. But it sucks complete ass if it doesn't.

    Also I can't fathom spending $3000 on a box these days. The depreciation is just so goddamn bad. In six months you'll be able to buy a machine just as powerful for $600.

    You can buy seperate tech support services, if that's your bag.

    Additionally, if you are willing to spendthe money on name brands, you can buy componants that offer tech support individually, and cobble a support system together.

    Evander on
  • MistaCreepyMistaCreepy Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Building yourself is cheaper. I upgraded when Bioshock came out and got the following:

    New mobo (P5N Asus): 150 bucks
    New Card: 8800 GT 630 MB: 350 bucks
    2 gigs of DDR2: 120 bucks
    New 250 gb SATA HD : 80 bucks
    New Case w/additonal fans: 100 bucks
    Intel Core 2 Duo 6600: 350 bucks
    New PSU: 120 bucks

    Total: Approx. 1270 bucks

    This computer plays just about anything I want at full settings.

    MistaCreepy on
    PS3: MistaCreepy::Steam: MistaCreepy::360: Dead and I don't feel like paying to fix it.
  • Doc HollidayDoc Holliday Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I built my dad's computer at CyberPowerPC because they warranty their work. Their prices are really good as well. I got a similar rig as MistaCreepy except I think I got the cheaper 8800 (GTS?) and it rounded out to $1100. Really nice case, too, and they did a fantastic job with neatening the wiring.

    edit: that is, CyberPower built the rig, I just configured it. I built my dad's last PC but I was always afraid I screwed something up and I didn't like not having anyone to send it to if it broke, so I went with CPPC this go 'round.

    Doc Holliday on
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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited November 2007
    Another vote for self-built.

    And you can eliminate about 99% of compatibility issues by buying name brand and doing your homework. Do a little searching on your components, because pretty much all but the most obscure compatibility issues will have been discovered by someone, and they probably will have yammered about it on a message board somewhere.

    And if you buy a solid name brand, you're less likely to wind up with a lemon. An Abit or Asus mobo is less likely to crap out on you or pull weird shit than something you've never heard of. Also, look for reviews of your prospective gear.

    If you can order it all from NewEgg - and you should, because they're awesome and fast and cheap - it'll save you the leg work. Actually building the thing takes a few hours tops, assuming you're even marginally tech-minded, and installing software is pretty easy.

    I built my first machine a few years back. I'm not exactly a tech savant, but I got it up and running in half a day on the first try, and I specced out a decent gaming rig that lasted three years before its first hiccup (power supply died, which was my one cheap-o component).

    ElJeffe on
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  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    DrFrylock wrote: »
    I used to be a big advocate of self-built systems but nowadays I'm not so sure. The argument is best for high-end machines but consider this: you have to be 100% of your own tech support.

    It depends 100% on who your audience is.

    A technically-savvy do-it-yourselfer who wants the best performance for the buck and doesn't mind spending a couple hours fucking with drivers and services now and again, and who can survive for a couple days if the PC explodes and they don't have the time or money to fix it right away? Custom-built.

    Anybody else? Name-brand.

    But you're right, name-brands aren't the shitty value they used to be anymore.

    Feral on
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  • Ronin TetsuroRonin Tetsuro Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Self built. Always. The only argument I ever hear against it is the technical support angle.

    Ask yourself, when is the last time you called one of those technical support lines? I WORK for one and I would tell you that if you can boot windows and connect to the internet, you're fine being your own technical support.

    Ronin Tetsuro on
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  • BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Self built. Always. The only argument I ever hear against it is the technical support angle.

    Ask yourself, when is the last time you called one of those technical support lines? I WORK for one and I would tell you that if you can boot windows and connect to the internet, you're fine being your own technical support.

    I think by "technical support" most people here mean a single entity to deal with in the event of any hardware problems.

    Barrakketh on
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  • DrFrylockDrFrylock Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Barrakketh wrote: »
    I think by "technical support" most people here mean a single entity to deal with in the event of any hardware problems.

    It's more than that. Having a single entity doesn't just mean "I don't have to look up the number of my video card manufacturer or my hard drive, I can just call one number."

    First of all, your self-built computer is a one-off. Your name-brand preassembled machine is one of hundreds just like it. Unsurprisingly, when you build hundreds of a particular kind of computer, the same kinds of problems tend to happen to the same model of computer - both software and hardware problems. If you can't run Software X on your computer and you get "error 1423" you can just search for "Aliendell Lativostro 9231 SoftwareX error 1423" and see if other people have had similar problems with that particular hardware. Certain perplexing problems will crop up over and over again - blown capacitors on a motherboard or a marginal part on a video board - and don't fool yourself into thinking that if you just buy from Asus that you'll never have any hardware problems.

    Also, you get the whole computer warrantied together. Sure, you often have to get through front-line Bangladeshi tech support (although you can buy a better warranty that bypasses this usually), but eventually you get to somewhere that has replacement parts for your whole computer. When something breaks, they will send out a nice Asian man with three or four replacement parts that can swap them out until you get one that fixes your problem. If something breaks, they can't blame the rest of your hardware. "Thank you for calling Kingcrucial Memory. Describe your problem? Oh, that's not your RAM. Your motherboard must be broken. Call that manufacturer." You also won't get tech support claiming that you must have installed the hardware wrong, or broken it during the installation process.

    If you have sufficient technical skill and plenty of time and plenty of money to go out and buy swap-out parts for testing when something goes wrong, by all means build your own machine. However, realize that in most cases, you can buy a substantially equivalent, pre-assembled machine from a reputable vendor for substantially the same cost with substantially less hassle.

    DrFrylock on
  • CrayonCrayon Sleeps in the wrong bed. TejasRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    DrFrylock wrote: »
    Barrakketh wrote: »
    I think by "technical support" most people here mean a single entity to deal with in the event of any hardware problems.

    It's more than that. Having a single entity doesn't just mean "I don't have to look up the number of my video card manufacturer or my hard drive, I can just call one number."

    First of all, your self-built computer is a one-off. Your name-brand preassembled machine is one of hundreds just like it. Unsurprisingly, when you build hundreds of a particular kind of computer, the same kinds of problems tend to happen to the same model of computer - both software and hardware problems. If you can't run Software X on your computer and you get "error 1423" you can just search for "Aliendell Lativostro 9231 SoftwareX error 1423" and see if other people have had similar problems with that particular hardware. Certain perplexing problems will crop up over and over again - blown capacitors on a motherboard or a marginal part on a video board - and don't fool yourself into thinking that if you just buy from Asus that you'll never have any hardware problems.

    Also, you get the whole computer warrantied together. Sure, you often have to get through front-line Bangladeshi tech support (although you can buy a better warranty that bypasses this usually), but eventually you get to somewhere that has replacement parts for your whole computer. When something breaks, they will send out a nice Asian man with three or four replacement parts that can swap them out until you get one that fixes your problem. If something breaks, they can't blame the rest of your hardware. "Thank you for calling Kingcrucial Memory. Describe your problem? Oh, that's not your RAM. Your motherboard must be broken. Call that manufacturer." You also won't get tech support claiming that you must have installed the hardware wrong, or broken it during the installation process.

    If you have sufficient technical skill and plenty of time and plenty of money to go out and buy swap-out parts for testing when something goes wrong, by all means build your own machine. However, realize that in most cases, you can buy a substantially equivalent, pre-assembled machine from a reputable vendor for substantially the same cost with substantially less hassle.

    It's hard to answer this question without the same spunk that you have...but you're entirely wrong. It's easier to build a new computer these days than it is to program your tivo. To make the statement that building your own and buying your own equals the same cost clearly shows that you just have some unnatural taboo about building computers.

    Crayon on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited November 2007
    DrFrylock wrote: »
    First of all, your self-built computer is a one-off. Your name-brand preassembled machine is one of hundreds just like it. Unsurprisingly, when you build hundreds of a particular kind of computer, the same kinds of problems tend to happen to the same model of computer - both software and hardware problems.

    In addition to all the other things incorrect in your post, this isn't always the case. A lot of pre-builts use components selected by the rigorous process of "whatever is lying around at the moment," and computers with the same model number can have wildly different internal components from a random assortment of no-name manufacturers. So no, the tech support guy will not necessarily have dealt with your exact same computer before. It's quite possible that your pre-built machine is just as unique as the one I cobbled together. The main difference is that the money you dumped into Dell's profit margin, I dumped into getting better components that are less likely to break.

    Having access to tech support is an asset, sure, but you're overstating the hell out of your case.

    ElJeffe on
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  • SnarfmasterSnarfmaster Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    DrFrylock wrote: »
    First of all, your self-built computer is a one-off. Your name-brand preassembled machine is one of hundreds just like it. Unsurprisingly, when you build hundreds of a particular kind of computer, the same kinds of problems tend to happen to the same model of computer - both software and hardware problems.

    In addition to all the other things incorrect in your post, this isn't always the case. A lot of pre-builts use components selected by the rigorous process of "whatever is lying around at the moment," and computers with the same model number can have wildly different internal components from a random assortment of no-name manufacturers. So no, the tech support guy will not necessarily have dealt with your exact same computer before. It's quite possible that your pre-built machine is just as unique as the one I cobbled together. The main difference is that the money you dumped into Dell's profit margin, I dumped into getting better components that are less likely to break.

    Having access to tech support is an asset, sure, but you're overstating the hell out of your case.

    What you get from a pre-built system and what you can put together yourself can vary so widely it's tough to talk about. But i can do a quick comparison to get my answer. Looking at pricing on newegg for a smattering of components and then comparing it to a similar machine built on someplace like ibuypower leads me to favor the ordering of the whole machine at once. The prices are pretty damn close (and even better in some cases for ordering the whole machine at once). Especially if you're buying a new OS like vista to tag along with your system since they sell for much less with a new system than if you go and buy a retail version from some other store. Add on the free shipping plus 3 Year warranty and the time you save putting it together yourself and i'm not sure why people are so against it.

    Snarfmaster on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited November 2007
    Looking at pricing on newegg for a smattering of components and then comparing it to a similar machine built on someplace like ibuypower leads me to favor the ordering of the whole machine at once. The prices are pretty damn close (and even better in some cases for ordering the whole machine at once).

    Are you really comparing like products, though? Are you comparing a 200G WD drive in the custom-built with a 200G WD in the pre-built, or does the latter have a drive made by Wong's House of Barely Serviceable Components? Not all machines with a 3.0GHz proc, 2GB of RAM, a 200GB HD, and a 256MB video card are created equal.

    ElJeffe on
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  • SnarfmasterSnarfmaster Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Looking at pricing on newegg for a smattering of components and then comparing it to a similar machine built on someplace like ibuypower leads me to favor the ordering of the whole machine at once. The prices are pretty damn close (and even better in some cases for ordering the whole machine at once).

    Are you really comparing like products, though? Are you comparing a 200G WD drive in the custom-built with a 200G WD in the pre-built, or does the latter have a drive made by Wong's House of Barely Serviceable Components? Not all machines with a 3.0GHz proc, 2GB of RAM, a 200GB HD, and a 256MB video card are created equal.

    In the specific model i made everything but the hard drives were of the same brand, the hard drives unless you go up to a raptor are all unlabeled brand. But the processor, MB, ram and video card were all by the same manufacturer. I'll have to throw up a specific comparison later when i have time.

    Snarfmaster on
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