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Vista - still a hassle?

midgetspymidgetspy Registered User regular
Hey guys,

I just ordered a new computer and am having trouble deciding what OS I want to put on it. The (important) PC specs are:

AMD X2 6000+
8800GT 512MB
2GB DDR2-800 RAM
4 SATA drives in RAID 0+1

Now my dilemma is that I have a full legal copy of both XP Pro and Vista Ultimate. I'm currently (on my old PC) running XP Pro. I'm a "power user", I use my PC for everything and I use it a lot. I'm on it 5+ hours a day, much of which is spent gaming. I have all kinds of apps and games installed including random/obscure utilities/games that I've found on the net. The only reason I'm even considering Vista is because I'm starting from scratch now anyway, so I could save myself a wipe/re-install later by going Vista now instead of XP now and Vista later.

So my question to Vista users is, are there still many issues/annoyances associated with running Vista? How often do you come across programs that won't work (properly) on Vista? Are there any performance issues when gaming?

Also, is DX10 support actually advantageous over running the same game in DX9? Because that's really the ONLY reason I can think of to switch to Vista, I couldn't care less about see through windows and a fancy start menu.

midgetspy on
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Posts

  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    "I'm on it 5+ hours a day, much of which is spent gaming"


    XP Pro

    darkmayo on
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  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I've been running Vista for about 3 months and haven't really had a problem with it. I use my PC for gaming, and general use stuff.

    TubularLuggage on
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Vista is a lot better than it was when released. That said, I'd probably stuck with XP Pro until SP1 comes out for Vista.

    urahonky on
  • MorskittarMorskittar Lord Warlock Engineer SeattleRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Vista is still a few frames behind on most benchmarking, and DX10 drivers are pretty immature.

    Personally, I haven't seen any major incompatibilities, outside of a web tool at work that *still* doesn't funciton at all. No issues with games, chat clients, or anything else, though.

    In my mind, most of Vista's benefits have nothing to do with gaming. DX10 is still tomorrow's technology and not well utilized, and things like integrated search, breadcrumb address bars, window thumbnails, and all that are only useful while working in the OS. The new driver model is certainly beneficial; I've seen crap games (read; Mark of Chaos) that would lock up XP crash drivers, and Vista just restart it in the background. Not really a big deal if you're not running shit programs that don't blow up drivers.

    edit: A note, as far as I know, all the good stuff for SP1 has already been released as updates. Faster boots, eliminiation of the copy bug, etc... There could be more tweaks, but that's really not an objective benchmark at this point.

    Morskittar on
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  • PentPent Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I really like vista and could never go back to xp. The only time I've ever needed to reboot really is after installing video card drivers or my power goes out... Than again I don't put a lot of shit on my PC

    I use vista for gaming/work/etc all 5+ hours a day

    Pent on
    :winky:
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    There's still one show-stopping issue. Every vista system I've had to fix that didn't involve simply spyware overload had a weird issue where certain services were generating "Access Denied" errors and shutting down. Microsoft support offered several solutions, none of which worked for any of the systems. The issue is that the permissions system is somehow broken, and services will fail to start.

    The most common one seems to the the DHCP client, but that's probably because it's the most noticeable as it breaks internet connectivity. Microsoft support never managed to provide a solution, though they have tried, and searching the internet has only given me more failed fixes and strings of posts from people with the same problem. Even setting up permissions so inclusive that they effectively disable any security whatsoever (effectively everything having full control of everything else), the logs still show access denied when the service tries to start, which at that point shouldn't even be possible. At that point if DHCP decided it wanted to eat your hard drive Vista wouldn't even ask if you wanted it to.

    All the other things I've seen and heard about Vista aside, I'd probalby upgrade myself if I weren't afraid I'd somehow run into this problem. Until there's a viable fix at least, I won't.

    Hevach on
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I run Vista 64, never had any problems running games (and I play a lot of different games).

    JohnDoe on
  • MorskittarMorskittar Lord Warlock Engineer SeattleRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Hevach, are you aware of any KB articles discussing the issue?

    Morskittar on
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  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    MS has a couple of patches out right now that fix a lot of the bugs, and SP1 is already in Beta(closed for now)

    I've been using Vista since Beta 2 and I game, internet, word process, watch por- err....video, do the iPod + iTunes thing.

    Sure, it's given me some fits, but that was all within he first 3 months of release. The only issues I've had with it in the last 6 months are all things that I could say aobut XP, so it's all good.

    wunderbar on
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  • fogeymanfogeyman Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I've had the same experience as wunderbar and Pent. I've used Vista almost exclusively since Beta 2, exclusively since launch, and have had very few issues.

    I say go Vista. There's also a thread in the subforum about XP vs. Vista in which the consensus seems to be Vista.

    Oh, and Vista is better with dual-core CPUs than XP.

    fogeyman on
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Morskittar wrote: »
    Hevach, are you aware of any KB articles discussing the issue?

    Yes: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943996/en-us

    I've run into five systems with the issue. Four of them were already configured as the resolution describes, and the fifth wasn't resolved by following these directions. Microsoft support also suggested various things involving mucking with registry permissions and giving NETWORK SERVICE or LOCAL SERVICE higher permissions in keys for the effected services, none of which worked either.

    Hevach on
  • corin7corin7 San Diego, CARegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I have been running vista since march with no problems. To be honest I have had more issues due to my dual core cpu than Vista.

    corin7 on
  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    There is pretty much no reason not to run Vista at this point unless you use some arcane program that doesn't support vista.

    deadonthestreet on
  • victor_c26victor_c26 Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Hevach wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    Hevach, are you aware of any KB articles discussing the issue?

    Yes: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943996/en-us

    I've run into five systems with the issue. Four of them were already configured as the resolution describes, and the fifth wasn't resolved by following these directions. Microsoft support also suggested various things involving mucking with registry permissions and giving NETWORK SERVICE or LOCAL SERVICE higher permissions in keys for the effected services, none of which worked either.

    I haven't seen any error messages at all while using Vista. That's rather strange.

    victor_c26 on
    It's been so long since I've posted here, I've removed my signature since most of what I had here were broken links. Shows over, you can carry on to the next post.
  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I've been using Vista since this summer and have largely been happy with it.

    What impressed me with Vista was that previously when an application crashed it would often end up taking out my entire system, but Vista almost always manages to retain control and allow me to quit the offending application and keep running fine.

    Really I've only had maybe 2-3 really hard (as in need to reboot) crashes where the OS hasn't been able to recover. Mainly down to running some very buggy apps / demo's.

    subedii on
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    with the latest vista hotfixes games run great and the core OS has bassicaly been quite stable since launch. Vista issues are overblown and are mostly holdovers from the betas when there was no 3rd party driver support.

    Go with Vista, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

    Hardtarget on
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  • victor_c26victor_c26 Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    And to add to subedii's comment.

    Vista has never crashed on me, and I use my system a lot. I also game on it as well.

    victor_c26 on
    It's been so long since I've posted here, I've removed my signature since most of what I had here were broken links. Shows over, you can carry on to the next post.
  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    victor_c26 wrote: »
    And to add to subedii's comment.

    Vista has never crashed on me, and I use my system a lot. I also game on it as well.

    Believe me, coming off of XP (and before that, ME. Crashes are no stranger to anyone who's used ME), I was really pleasantly surprised with how well Vista kept control when a program crashed on me.

    subedii on
  • MorskittarMorskittar Lord Warlock Engineer SeattleRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    The majority of negativity at this point comes from folks with agendas. Reviewers like Mossberg, Apple commericals, and forum trolls.

    Conversely, I haven't seen a single bit of marketing for it that isn't pretty much full of shit. Flip 3d is not "Wow". Nothing about Vista is really "Wow". But "After you've used if for six months, you can't imagine how you got by without some features" apparently doesn't make a good ad campaign.

    Windows' strength has always been it's flexibility and abilitiy to act as a functional and unobtrusive tool. I'd say this peaked in 2000, while the biggest flaws of XP and Vista are obfuscating technical advances with shiny fluff and marketing, as well as the ever-present and undeniable spectre of backwards compatibility.

    Vaguely related ramble aside, most of what you hear about from media and MS regarding Vista is BS.

    Morskittar on
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  • HearthjawHearthjaw Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Assuming you've got the comp to run it you shouldn't have a problem. I use mine for gaming and general computer stuff and the only hitch so far is printer networking with a mac, funnily enough the mac is the one giving me kittens.

    Hearthjaw on
    steamid: sewersider
  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I'm using vista on my laptop and apart from the occasional hiccup it works perfectly and is significantly better than XP in many ways. Your system exceeds the requirements so it should run smooth and solid. Most people's issues are caused by running it on old, shitty computers with unsupported hardware.

    Azio on
  • JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I actually finally ran into something that just wouldn't work with my 64 bit vista. WC3 Banlist. The WINPcap program that it requires to run won't install because it's not configured for 64 bit systems, would've worked fine if I'd had 32 bit vista.

    Other than that (and hiccup where on first bootup Vista install wouldn't recognize my SATA drives, which was remedied by simply trying again) I've had no issues. I also turned UAC completely off because man it's annoying.

    JAEF on
  • squirlysquirly Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Yes, go Vista. There's no huge things wrong with it, all the negative comments are from morons, games run fine, few things are incompatible, etc. Even from launch over a year ago there were no particular huge problems, or ones that were Microsoft's fault.

    An amusing thing is, those who actually use Vista and give it an objective go tend to seem to like it.

    squirly on
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  • MorskittarMorskittar Lord Warlock Engineer SeattleRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    squirly wrote: »
    Yes, go Vista. There's no huge things wrong with it, all the negative comments are from morons, games run fine, few things are incompatible, etc. Even from launch over a year ago there were no particular huge problems, or ones that were Microsoft's fault.

    An amusing thing is, those who actually use Vista and give it an objective go tend to seem to like it.

    To be completely fair, I wouldn't say there was *nothing* that was MS' fault. The shitty marketing, overhyped expectations, and lack of granularity to UAC to facilitate power users willing to take security into their own hands were all MS.

    Morskittar on
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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    victor_c26 wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    Hevach, are you aware of any KB articles discussing the issue?

    Yes: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943996/en-us

    I've run into five systems with the issue. Four of them were already configured as the resolution describes, and the fifth wasn't resolved by following these directions. Microsoft support also suggested various things involving mucking with registry permissions and giving NETWORK SERVICE or LOCAL SERVICE higher permissions in keys for the effected services, none of which worked either.

    I haven't seen any error messages at all while using Vista. That's rather strange.

    Well, thing is, if you've got this service issue, there is no associated error messages, everything fails silently during startup. Something just won't work - it might be the search features or the run box in the start menu won't work right or, as four of the five systems I mentioned, the internet won't work. The error only comes up if you go into the services list and try to manually launch the services that failed at startup.

    Also, this isn't a common issue, so you probably don't have it anyway. I don't know what could cause it, but I doubt the systems were taken care of. Probably 200 vista systems have come through my workplace this year, and most were installation related issues. Only five with broken services out of all that, not really that bad. I saw a lot more XP systems rendered unbootable when SP2 first came out than I've seen Vista ones crippled by this.

    Hevach on
  • stigweardstigweard Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    victor_c26 wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    Hevach, are you aware of any KB articles discussing the issue?

    Yes: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943996/en-us

    I've run into five systems with the issue. Four of them were already configured as the resolution describes, and the fifth wasn't resolved by following these directions. Microsoft support also suggested various things involving mucking with registry permissions and giving NETWORK SERVICE or LOCAL SERVICE higher permissions in keys for the effected services, none of which worked either.

    I haven't seen any error messages at all while using Vista. That's rather strange.

    That just reminded me, Vista is the first MS os in a long time that has had me slogging through KB articles and getting beta updates just to do simple things like get some of their own Vista ready hardware to run. There were some for >2GB ram issues, some for USB issues, some for network specific related issues. Many of them are mature and come through windows update right now, but there are others that you have to go searching for, and some others still you have to register a complaint and prove you have a problem before you can get the patch.

    Games that haven't worked properly for me:
    DiRT - doesn't even load. I've tried every work around available on the net to get it to run. (I spent a half day going back to xp only to find out the game is utter garbage.)

    Test Drive Unlimited - worked fine before the 1.66a patch. Now, you can play it offline, but if you play online, it crashes when you get near another player. I disabled the local firewall, I disabled my router firewall (yay telnet), I tried the dmz, I tried forwarding every port they recommended. You can see the players on the gps map, but if you get within range on the map, you crash.

    Those are the only two that really stand out. I've had problems with a few other games, but have gotten them to work with various workarounds, including this one Other games weren't large address aware and I've had to use cracks on them just so that I can patch them so that they would run without crashing.

    Overall there are a bunch of things I like about Vista, but there are just as many I don't like. If you have new hardware, new software, and don't mind the occasional challenge, go for it. If you want to avoid a good chunk of those challenges, wait for SP! when many of those KB patches will go out of beta and be included automatically.

    stigweard on
  • FightTestFightTest Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    If you had a mediocre graphics card I would probably suggest still using XP, but with an 8800GT I don't see any reason not to use Vista. Vista still eats 10 or so FPS out of games but unless your graphics card is jank that's not really an issue. I'm running XP on my desktop (too cheap to buy Vista plus a midrange graphics card - X1950XT) and Vista on my laptop. I've had no issues with Vista.

    FightTest on
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  • squirlysquirly Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Morskittar wrote: »
    squirly wrote: »
    Yes, go Vista. There's no huge things wrong with it, all the negative comments are from morons, games run fine, few things are incompatible, etc. Even from launch over a year ago there were no particular huge problems, or ones that were Microsoft's fault.

    An amusing thing is, those who actually use Vista and give it an objective go tend to seem to like it.

    To be completely fair, I wouldn't say there was *nothing* that was MS' fault. The shitty marketing, overhyped expectations, and lack of granularity to UAC to facilitate power users willing to take security into their own hands were all MS.
    Yeah, that's kind of why I never said there was *nothing* that wasn't Microsoft's fault as there certainly are problems with Vista like every other piece of software, just none of this huge, world-dooming problems people vaguely speak of.

    squirly on
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  • MorskittarMorskittar Lord Warlock Engineer SeattleRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    squirly wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    squirly wrote: »
    Yes, go Vista. There's no huge things wrong with it, all the negative comments are from morons, games run fine, few things are incompatible, etc. Even from launch over a year ago there were no particular huge problems, or ones that were Microsoft's fault.

    An amusing thing is, those who actually use Vista and give it an objective go tend to seem to like it.

    To be completely fair, I wouldn't say there was *nothing* that was MS' fault. The shitty marketing, overhyped expectations, and lack of granularity to UAC to facilitate power users willing to take security into their own hands were all MS.
    Yeah, that's kind of why I never said there was *nothing* that wasn't Microsoft's fault as there certainly are problems with Vista like every other piece of software, just none of this huge, world-dooming problems people vaguely speak of.

    Oh, reading comprehension. Gotcha :D.

    The world-dooming stuff really gets me though. It's cool if people don't like the OS, but the amount of misinformation out there has become a huge pet peeve for me.

    Morskittar on
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  • Epyon9283Epyon9283 Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Hevach wrote: »
    Also, this isn't a common issue, so you probably don't have it anyway.

    I saw this issue at work after joining a Vista box to the corp domain.

    Epyon9283 on
  • squirlysquirly Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Morskittar wrote: »
    squirly wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    squirly wrote: »
    Yes, go Vista. There's no huge things wrong with it, all the negative comments are from morons, games run fine, few things are incompatible, etc. Even from launch over a year ago there were no particular huge problems, or ones that were Microsoft's fault.

    An amusing thing is, those who actually use Vista and give it an objective go tend to seem to like it.

    To be completely fair, I wouldn't say there was *nothing* that was MS' fault. The shitty marketing, overhyped expectations, and lack of granularity to UAC to facilitate power users willing to take security into their own hands were all MS.
    Yeah, that's kind of why I never said there was *nothing* that wasn't Microsoft's fault as there certainly are problems with Vista like every other piece of software, just none of this huge, world-dooming problems people vaguely speak of.

    Oh, reading comprehension. Gotcha :D.

    The world-dooming stuff really gets me though. It's cool if people don't like the OS, but the amount of misinformation out there has become a huge pet peeve for me.
    :)

    And yeah, that's exactly the same thing that I think is awfully lame and pathetic too. I really don't care if you don't like Vista, but if you say you don't like it because of some retarded reason which isn't true or is vaguely based on some truth in Bizarro world, do us all a favour and stop talking till you garner a clue.

    squirly on
    Diablo2 [US West; Ladder]: *DorianGraph [New/Main] *outsidewhale [Old]
  • MorskittarMorskittar Lord Warlock Engineer SeattleRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    no i totaly heard online that it is a resorse hog and wastes yoru megahurtz its true because they say it on cnet boards and those kewl mac ads

    Morskittar on
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  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2007
    I am going to give it another 6 months.

    EliteLamer on
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  • squirlysquirly Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Morskittar wrote: »
    no i totaly heard online that it is a resorse hog and wastes yoru megahurtz its true because they say it on cnet boards and those kewl mac ads
    Wait.. you're right! How could I have been wrong all along?

    Damn M$ and they're winblowz, causing world hunger, making me pay more fur fuellolz !!!!1!1oeneone we need to vote jobs 4 president haha yup why didnt you make me ur topfr1end on myspace morskittar?:(:(:(:(

    squirly on
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  • cemetery mancemetery man Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Vista works great for me. Just get all the proper drivers for your hardware, and patch everything up to the latest. Don't listen to the naysayers who probably haven't done all that stuff or have under recommended hardware.

    cemetery man on
  • RohanRohan Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I'm still dual-booting XP Pro and Vista Ultimate, and the only use Vista has seen in six months or so has been to run Crysis. The "UAC has been disabled" message still keeps cropping up and annoying me, sometimes folders won't give me the option to sort items and sometimes they do, Dreamscene keeps crashing so there's no point to it, Crysis didn't appear on the Start Button > All Programs list (wth?), games won't run from their original folders unless installed in Vista (unlike XP - I have games from dozens of installs ago still present and running with XP), so there's no fricking point to running Vista unless a new game supports DX10, the 3D page flip thing is pretty but useless - you have to move the mouse down to the start bar anyway, why not click on the window you want...

    That and another few niggling issues keep me from upgrading to it fully. I like Vista, but it annoys me greatly.
    Vista works great for me. Just get all the proper drivers for your hardware, and patch everything up to the latest. Don't listen to the naysayers who probably haven't done all that stuff or have under recommended hardware.

    Just because it works great for you, does not mean that it works as well for others. Everything on my Vista is updated with the very latest drivers and patches, and my system is more than capable, with a Conroe Core 2 Duo, 2GB of PC6400 DDR2, and a GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB.

    Edit - Oh, and "Up" is no longer present among the window navigation keys. Irritates me a great deal, it does.

    Rohan on
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  • EliteLamerEliteLamer __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2007
    A friend of mine who programs says XP64 > Vista and that xp64 has come a long way but I wouldn't know because I lost track of xp64 shortly after release.

    EliteLamer on
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  • GogoKodoGogoKodo Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Rohan wrote: »
    the 3D page flip thing is pretty but useless - you have to move the mouse down to the start bar anyway, why not click on the window you want...

    Windows Key + Tab is the shortcut for it, rather than alt+tab

    GogoKodo on
  • fogeymanfogeyman Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Rohan wrote: »
    sometimes folders won't give me the option to sort items and sometimes they do,
    This is weird, folders always let me sort items however I want to. Did you try right clicking-->sort by-->more options?
    Rohan wrote: »
    Dreamscene keeps crashing so there's no point to it,
    Dreamscene doesn't crash for me, but it's still pointless. So far, all of the Ultimate Extras are pointless :x .
    Rohan wrote: »
    Crysis didn't appear on the Start Button > All Programs list (wth?),
    That's weird, too--works fine for me.
    Rohan wrote: »
    games won't run from their original folders unless installed in Vista (unlike XP - I have games from dozens of installs ago still present and running with XP),
    I don't understand the problem, the point of a clean install is to get rid of old applications/files/everything and start fresh. Unless you somehow upgraded XP to Vista except partitioned it (I don't think this is possible), you would have setup Vista on a new partition and therefore no already-installed programs would work. You'd have to install them again.
    Rohan wrote: »
    Edit - Oh, and "Up" is no longer present among the window navigation keys. Irritates me a great deal, it does.
    That's what the breadcrumb bar is for. You just click another folder name (or the arrow to quickly access other subfolders). It's much faster and better than the "up" button from XP.

    fogeyman on
  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Rohan wrote: »
    sometimes folders won't give me the option to sort items and sometimes they do,
    You are aware that clicking the items on the grey bar just below the toolbar allows you to sort and group things, right? This is actually the standard way of sorting now.
    Rohan wrote: »
    Crysis didn't appear on the Start Button > All Programs list (wth?),
    Some games only install shortcuts to the Games Explorer, which where they belong now. Using the search box is faster than drilling down through All Programs anyways.
    Rohan wrote: »
    Edit - Oh, and "Up" is no longer present among the window navigation keys. Irritates me a great deal, it does.
    Pressing Backspace will take you up one level, although you should practice using the improved address bar because it kicks ass.

    Azio on
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