Really though. Everything gets automated, putting already underpaid people completely out of work. Why, exactly, would anyone in any position of authority then decide to give those people who they already weren't paying enough in the first place completely free money?
Because it's the right thing to do.
Winky, I admire your optimism, but optimism will never feed a family of four.
I would say more that they will implement it in the most minimal way to stay in authority.
The goal of most folks in power is to stay in power.
It kinda seems like a huge portion of humanity finds not working and living on provided income depressing and starts in on meth?
I'd love to live in Star Trek too but it seems to be psychologically incompatible with a lot of people
I struggle with this
I worked from home on monday and tuesday because I had an excuse to do so
and I felt shitty about myself for playing video games all day
and yet I would make up the thing and work from home again given the chance
this self-harming behavior q_q
i wonder how much of it is those people being constantly told they're pieces of shit who don't deserve happiness because they don't work full time
There's a lot of that. The population has largely internalized those feelings, at this point, so it doesn't even matter if Basic Income has the most positive uncontroversial messaging in history. People could still end up hating themselves for it and going into self-destructive spirals
Really though. Everything gets automated, putting already underpaid people completely out of work. Why, exactly, would anyone in any position of authority then decide to give those people who they already weren't paying enough in the first place completely free money?
Because someone has to buy the things that the robots are making?
But Preacher
what is the robots specialize
and need the other robots' goods and services to make up shortfalls in their performance needs while they efficiently perform their priority function
brb writing story where humans are neutered and spayed and kept as pets
+6
Options
HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
I think the only real question now is whether people get comfortable with expansive socialism or every automation engineer and software developer ends up ripped limb from limb French Revolution style
like honestly the scariest shit going right now is that the people building this shit are soooo disconnected from how incredibly fucking un-ready the bulk of society is for them and how likely it is to end in insanity
Google is essentially an insular singularity cult working to bring about the end of mankind, and they're puzzled that anyone's uncomfortable about it
storm's a-brewing
Yeah but what are we supposed to do? Illegalize automation? Leave a whole bunch of artificial makework so people get to pull a lever and feel useful? And our bizarre sense of morality says: Ok that man pulled a lever, he did A WORK he may now draw a wage?
ba-sic in-come
clap clap clap-clap-clap
"Hey remember all those people we put out of jobs? Let's just give them money for no reas...ha, sorry, couldn't finish that with a straight face."
if they have no jobs and no money they have nothing to lose so
yeah, the peter thiels of this world are kind of under the impression that a lot of people are just going to quietly starve to death in the corner
nobody said the people driving this have a good grasp of human psychology
because honestly they really don't
I keep hoping I live long enough to watch our rich dying horribly for their short sighted people fucking, but I doubt that will ever happen.
In order to get to "popular uprising" we need "extreme popular oppression, death and famine"
I would not make it through those conditions
Well I'm fat, so I can deal with famine.
I AINT GONNA MAKE IT PREACH
You have a better chance of surviving a barter economy than I do, I mean I can't barter myself.
But when Peter Thiel establishes his fiefdom women will lose even our power of seduction
the whole point of the industrial revolution and the robotic revolution is so that humans don't have to do as much work as we did previously and can do other things we find worthwhile as a species
art, music, science, etc
just do things we enjoy, even if things we enjoy are eating like 18 slices of pizza and drinking a soda
but that was the whole point of our societal goals I thought
I guess that makes people uncomfortable
how dare these people not work as hard as I do
but I've found that people who say that, often don't work at all, or, are stupidly wealthy and the type of work they do could hardly be classified as "hard work"
It turns out that art is hard to actually do well, and most people have no interest nor the ability to deal with the crushing defeat that comes from people rejecting expressions of your soul.
Also, science is for loser nerds that can't get laid. TV told me so.
like, the long-term psychological consequences of people feeling useless are immense
basic income isn't going to be enough if there aren't massive support structures that give people something to do that makes them feel useful
the Start Trek "play all day" idea is a pipe dream mostly bought into by engineers and other people without much actual experience with long-term unemployment
The show gives us almost nothing abou civilian life, we can't draw any real conclusions about Federation society.
The show deliberately shows us people who value science, diplomacy, and exploration instead of the holodeck shut-ins.
The presentation begins with an expensively produced pitch video. These guys are too serious for bush-league stuff like Powerpoint. The pitch video wasn’t really made for the people in this room, but for prospective investors. But we’re watching it now because it’s a good way to introduce the project.
The video shows various views of a modern shopping mall. The narrator describes the difficulties of modern shopping: Crowds. Parking. Inconvenience. Noise. The video shows someone riding an escalator in an upscale shopping mall and then fades to the same scene as rendered in 1998-style CGI.
“At last, virtual reality malls are now possible,” the narrator assures us[2].
A camera sweeps through the blocky mall as flat-polygon patrons walk stiffly in the background.
I am now very uncomfortable. I knew this company wanted to hire us to set up some kind of store, but I had no idea what that would involve or what form it would take. But now I’ve seen the concept video I have to say this sounds like ten different bad ideas rolled into one.
I can see the thinking behind this. They’re looking to combine “chat room as social experience” with “shopping as social experience”. The presentation shows ladies shopping together, and they really do seem to be aiming this experience at everyone, not just tech-savvy young guys. You can see they’re sort of aiming for a place where people can congregate and chat like you do in Everquest, but when you get restless you go shopping for real goods instead of killing mobs. It’s a plausible concept on the surface, but there are major technological, cultural, social, and practical obstacles that would need to be overcome to make it happen, and nobody is talking about those problems.
like, the long-term psychological consequences of people feeling useless are immense
basic income isn't going to be enough if there aren't massive support structures that give people something to do that makes them feel useful
the Start Trek "play all day" idea is a pipe dream mostly bought into by engineers and other people without much actual experience with long-term unemployment
Ok so basic income and a WoW subscription. Bam problem solved.
Playing WoW all day would make me feel terrible.
Now there are a bunch of hobbies that I could imagine doing all day without feeling useless and take up large amounts of time like writing.
like, the long-term psychological consequences of people feeling useless are immense
basic income isn't going to be enough if there aren't massive support structures that give people something to do that makes them feel useful
the Start Trek "play all day" idea is a pipe dream mostly bought into by engineers and other people without much actual experience with long-term unemployment
Ok so basic income and a WoW subscription. Bam problem solved.
Throw in an inflatable raft to compensate for rising sea levels and I think we're good till 2100
+1
Options
HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
Can we just admit it? In the grim future, the obscenely wealthy will reign forever, their lives artificially extended with the blood of poor young teenagers bred in camps populated by the formerly employed
Other than upping my anxiety meds, what else can I do to manage it? Keep in mind I have three kids plus Shark so my time to do stuff for myself is limited. TIA.
I think that's more a matter of what is provided though. I don't think if you gave someone 70K a year and told them not to work that they'd start in on the meth. I think a lot of that psychology comes from the fact that provided income is always gross poverty level. And of course poverty isn't going to be preferred. It's not like you see folks living in trailers and huffing paint fumes after hitting the lotto.
Think this through, though. What's the incentive for the ownership class to provide high basic income to the masses? And if they did, how are you going to control the inflationary pressures that would turn 70k into barely sustenance wages? It's a treadmill; by definition, every person can't get above average wages, so prices will always inflate to the point where most people can just barely get their basics, because that's the most efficient point of profit extraction.
The only way around that is to abandon capitalism entirely.
+1
Options
ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
Other than upping my anxiety meds, what else can I do to manage it? Keep in mind I have three kids plus Shark so my time to do stuff for myself is limited. TIA.
Meditation can be really helpful, is all I've got.
Really though. Everything gets automated, putting already underpaid people completely out of work. Why, exactly, would anyone in any position of authority then decide to give those people who they already weren't paying enough in the first place completely free money?
Because it's the right thing to do.
Winky, I admire your optimism, but optimism will never feed a family of four.
I would say more that they will implement it in the most minimal way to stay in authority.
The goal of most folks in power is to stay in power.
In which case, we've gone full-on Brave New World.
Other than upping my anxiety meds, what else can I do to manage it? Keep in mind I have three kids plus Shark so my time to do stuff for myself is limited. TIA.
Meditation can be really helpful, is all I've got.
Where do I start? Is there a good book or something like Meditation for Dummies?
Other than upping my anxiety meds, what else can I do to manage it? Keep in mind I have three kids plus Shark so my time to do stuff for myself is limited. TIA.
Meditation can be really helpful, is all I've got.
yeah that's it, typically people use some form of meditation or other de-stressors in regards to anxiety
exercise is a good one, breathing exercises or other forms of meditation are common, yoga, telling shark to take the kids for a few hours, etc
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Other than upping my anxiety meds, what else can I do to manage it? Keep in mind I have three kids plus Shark so my time to do stuff for myself is limited. TIA.
Practicing mindfulness or grounding techniques. CBT has quite a bit of that. Also focusing on your breathing and remembering to take a breath. I'd start hyperventilating or doing shallow breathing and that makes anxiety worse
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
0
Options
Donkey KongPutting Nintendo out of business with AI nipsRegistered Userregular
I think that's more a matter of what is provided though. I don't think if you gave someone 70K a year and told them not to work that they'd start in on the meth. I think a lot of that psychology comes from the fact that provided income is always gross poverty level. And of course poverty isn't going to be preferred. It's not like you see folks living in trailers and huffing paint fumes after hitting the lotto.
Think this through, though. What's the incentive for the ownership class to provide high basic income to the masses? And if they did, how are you going to control the inflationary pressures that would turn 70k into barely sustenance wages? It's a treadmill; by definition, every person can't get above average wages, so prices will always inflate to the point where most people can just barely get their basics, because that's the most efficient point of profit extraction.
The only way around that is to abandon capitalism entirely.
jack_nicholson_nodding.gif
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
+5
Options
Blameless Cleric An angel made of sapphires each more flawlessly cut than the last Registered Userregular
Other than upping my anxiety meds, what else can I do to manage it? Keep in mind I have three kids plus Shark so my time to do stuff for myself is limited. TIA.
Meditation can be really helpful, is all I've got.
Where do I start? Is there a good book or something like Meditation for Dummies?
you can listen to guided ones for beginners on youtube and stuff, that's a good place (OR SO I'VE HEARD)
Other than upping my anxiety meds, what else can I do to manage it? Keep in mind I have three kids plus Shark so my time to do stuff for myself is limited. TIA.
Therapy (which includes actually being honest with the therapist and being willing to switch therapists if the first one doesn't click)(I now include this disclaimer for everyone after my recommendations of therapy in the past have landed but not been implemented correctly).
Steam, LoL: credeiki
+1
Options
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Other than upping my anxiety meds, what else can I do to manage it? Keep in mind I have three kids plus Shark so my time to do stuff for myself is limited. TIA.
Meditation can be really helpful, is all I've got.
Im trying to learn how to do it.
Its actually really difficult to block everything and concentrate. I got a candle for it and I have moments where I feel like its happening, but then I start thinking about THAT and it fucks everything up.
Other than upping my anxiety meds, what else can I do to manage it? Keep in mind I have three kids plus Shark so my time to do stuff for myself is limited. TIA.
Remove the source of your anxiety. *hands over harpoon gun*
Actually, my short list (barring removing the source of anxiety) would be therapy, meditation, light exercise, and eating healthier. If it is particular situations that make you anxious, reframing it as "I'm excited about this" rather than "I'm anxious about this" in your mind can reduce anxiety toward that particular situation. Without context, I'm not sure what kinds of coping strategies might work.
Really though. Everything gets automated, putting already underpaid people completely out of work. Why, exactly, would anyone in any position of authority then decide to give those people who they already weren't paying enough in the first place completely free money?
Eventually politicians will stop campaigning on bringing manufacturing jobs back because that ship has long sailed and they will pivot to basic income.
Yes, before anyone says it, this is assuming Trump hasn't destroyed democracy by then
That basic income has to come from somewhere though. And if the only people with any money are the ones who created the complete lack of employment in the first place, specifically so they could have even more money...
Yes it comes from the government.
Where's the government getting that money from. No one is paying taxes, since no one has a job. Corporate tax? pfft.
Well for starters, plenty of people will still have jobs. No one has manufacturing jobs does not equal no one has any job.
And the government has always been capable of spending more than it raises in taxes anyways.
Wealth is production. Money is just the means for moving that wealth around.
@ronya please explain better but also in a far more convoluted, hedged and difficult to parse post thanks
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
I think the only real question now is whether people get comfortable with expansive socialism or every automation engineer and software developer ends up ripped limb from limb French Revolution style
like honestly the scariest shit going right now is that the people building this shit are soooo disconnected from how incredibly fucking un-ready the bulk of society is for them and how likely it is to end in insanity
Google is essentially an insular singularity cult working to bring about the end of mankind, and they're puzzled that anyone's uncomfortable about it
storm's a-brewing
Yeah but what are we supposed to do? Illegalize automation? Leave a whole bunch of artificial makework so people get to pull a lever and feel useful? And our bizarre sense of morality says: Ok that man pulled a lever, he did A WORK he may now draw a wage?
You're not wrong, but aren't we just a man walking into a buzzsaw and asking "what? I'm supposed to not walk into it? some other mook will!"
Would it be nice if half the planet would get over themselves, embrace Full Communism Now, and let this all go smoothly? Sure man, but let's be real: they'd rather behead each other and go back to the 16th century. We're kidding ourselves if we think anything else is going to happen.
Sometimes think we need to put our swords down and go into the west.
Collective action. It isn't a buzz saw, it's technology. Whoever embraces it makes more money at the expense of those who didn't. It needs to be legislated but there's no will or way, nor is it even a realistic goal to get every nation on board. It is about as inevitable as anything. It's basically as intractable a problem as global warming, and look at how great we've dealt with that.
Unlike global warming, though, we can totally live just fine on a planet where automation has taken over as long as we change the way we think.
I agree. The glass half-full interpretation is that we'll experience a fundamental change in human nature and enter a new golden age
The glass-half empty interpretation is that we'll murder each other into a new dark age, because change is scary, we resort to violence when frightened, and with enough killing the threat of automation goes away because it's suddenly 874 AD again
I've never been an optimist.
+1
Options
ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
Other than upping my anxiety meds, what else can I do to manage it? Keep in mind I have three kids plus Shark so my time to do stuff for myself is limited. TIA.
Meditation can be really helpful, is all I've got.
Where do I start? Is there a good book or something like Meditation for Dummies?
I think @TL DR or @desc might have more advice (there are others too), but mindfulness meditation basically consists of sitting quietly, paying attention to your breath and everything you feel in the moment, not fighting thoughts that arise, but not indulging them (just make a note of them and let them go) for a period of time.
+2
Options
AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I don't think my ADD allows me to meditate
the second I'm able to turn my brain off I just fall asleep
Can we just admit it? In the grim future, the obscenely wealthy will reign forever, their lives artificially extended with the blood of poor young teenagers bred in camps populated by the formerly employed
That sounds like a pretty sexy camp, though.
0
Options
ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
It kinda seems like a huge portion of humanity finds not working and living on provided income depressing and starts in on meth?
I'd love to live in Star Trek too but it seems to be psychologically incompatible with a lot of people
I struggle with this
I worked from home on monday and tuesday because I had an excuse to do so
and I felt shitty about myself for playing video games all day
and yet I would make up the thing and work from home again given the chance
this self-harming behavior q_q
i wonder how much of it is those people being constantly told they're pieces of shit who don't deserve happiness because they don't work full time
There's a lot of that. The population has largely internalized those feelings, at this point, so it doesn't even matter if Basic Income has the most positive uncontroversial messaging in history. People could still end up hating themselves for it and going into self-destructive spirals
i know a lot of people, and not just old people, who lost jobs after 2008 but refused to take unemployment or go on food stamps or whatever because of stupid protestant work ethic bullshit and it's like
It seems like a dogwhistle for procrastination with a little nap thrown in.
0
Options
amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
Back from lunch. I did not have Captain D's or gas station food.
Achievement unlocked.
Also my boss like once every couple of months will get an e-mail from someone and be all "looks like we're dropping the ball on desktop support this ticket is a month old better talk to your team"
First off, you're their goddamn manager. I'm the team lead. If I assign them work and they don't do it it's your job to yell at them, not cower at your desk because you're inept you bald fucksack.
Second, maybe if corporate hadn't just cut off our old ticketing system and juiced up a new one that's buggy af we wouldn't be missing tickets.
Now go make me a sandwich.
are YOU on the beer list?
0
Options
TTODewbackPuts the drawl in ya'llI think I'm in HellRegistered Userregular
I was outside when the bottom dropped out here.
So now everything is wet and I am 47% more miserable than I normally am
the second I'm able to turn my brain off I just fall asleep
When I was working horrible hours, I would intersperse my day with 3 15-minute meditation sessions in lieu of a good night's sleep. I was typically getting 2-4 hours every night during those days, and the meditation really helped. It didn't replace the sleep, by any means, but it got me through the day much better than caffeine.
For the first time in ten months I threw a few quid on the lottery just to see if I could win a small windfall and commission Mike Duncan to cover a Revolution
I won £5.60
Anyone wanna float the other £19994.40 it would cost?
Basically it's cool if people want to use jargon like "vertical", but that means I get to talk about how I leverage big data to mine insights into our customer base.
I think you mean you use innovative, cutting edge Data Science to gain a competitive edge in your vertical
Actually I implement predictive modeling procedures to reduce inefficiencies and improve customer satisfaction.
I FUCKING HATE THIS SO MUCH WHO THINKS THIS IS GOOD
If you have complaints regarding the efficacy of my services, I can direct you to a company that registers dissatisfactory incidents and delegates projects to the appropriate solution committees for review. They'll have an Opportunity Proposal on your desk in a week.
You're too naturally coherent to make it really bad. There's not nearly enough periphrasis.
0
Options
Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
Three kids plus Shark
what are you saying
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
Posts
I would say more that they will implement it in the most minimal way to stay in authority.
The goal of most folks in power is to stay in power.
This is a lot of assumption on little data.
Service guarantees citizenship.
pleasepaypreacher.net
But when Peter Thiel establishes his fiefdom women will lose even our power of seduction
NNID: Hakkekage
It turns out that art is hard to actually do well, and most people have no interest nor the ability to deal with the crushing defeat that comes from people rejecting expressions of your soul.
Also, science is for loser nerds that can't get laid. TV told me so.
The show deliberately shows us people who value science, diplomacy, and exploration instead of the holodeck shut-ins.
that's basically how it works
service in starfleet confers more "credits" than the GBI that the star trek universe offers
there are still jobs, but most people don't do them IIRC
it's mostly about family life, travel, exploring, etc
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=35399
Playing WoW all day would make me feel terrible.
Now there are a bunch of hobbies that I could imagine doing all day without feeling useless and take up large amounts of time like writing.
Throw in an inflatable raft to compensate for rising sea levels and I think we're good till 2100
NNID: Hakkekage
Think this through, though. What's the incentive for the ownership class to provide high basic income to the masses? And if they did, how are you going to control the inflationary pressures that would turn 70k into barely sustenance wages? It's a treadmill; by definition, every person can't get above average wages, so prices will always inflate to the point where most people can just barely get their basics, because that's the most efficient point of profit extraction.
The only way around that is to abandon capitalism entirely.
Meditation can be really helpful, is all I've got.
In which case, we've gone full-on Brave New World.
Where do I start? Is there a good book or something like Meditation for Dummies?
yeah that's it, typically people use some form of meditation or other de-stressors in regards to anxiety
exercise is a good one, breathing exercises or other forms of meditation are common, yoga, telling shark to take the kids for a few hours, etc
Practicing mindfulness or grounding techniques. CBT has quite a bit of that. Also focusing on your breathing and remembering to take a breath. I'd start hyperventilating or doing shallow breathing and that makes anxiety worse
jack_nicholson_nodding.gif
you can listen to guided ones for beginners on youtube and stuff, that's a good place (OR SO I'VE HEARD)
I'd love it if you took a look at my art and my PATREON!
Therapy (which includes actually being honest with the therapist and being willing to switch therapists if the first one doesn't click)(I now include this disclaimer for everyone after my recommendations of therapy in the past have landed but not been implemented correctly).
Im trying to learn how to do it.
Its actually really difficult to block everything and concentrate. I got a candle for it and I have moments where I feel like its happening, but then I start thinking about THAT and it fucks everything up.
Actually, my short list (barring removing the source of anxiety) would be therapy, meditation, light exercise, and eating healthier. If it is particular situations that make you anxious, reframing it as "I'm excited about this" rather than "I'm anxious about this" in your mind can reduce anxiety toward that particular situation. Without context, I'm not sure what kinds of coping strategies might work.
Recognizing your triggers helps too
Well for starters, plenty of people will still have jobs. No one has manufacturing jobs does not equal no one has any job.
And the government has always been capable of spending more than it raises in taxes anyways.
Wealth is production. Money is just the means for moving that wealth around.
@ronya please explain better but also in a far more convoluted, hedged and difficult to parse post thanks
I agree. The glass half-full interpretation is that we'll experience a fundamental change in human nature and enter a new golden age
The glass-half empty interpretation is that we'll murder each other into a new dark age, because change is scary, we resort to violence when frightened, and with enough killing the threat of automation goes away because it's suddenly 874 AD again
I've never been an optimist.
I think @TL DR or @desc might have more advice (there are others too), but mindfulness meditation basically consists of sitting quietly, paying attention to your breath and everything you feel in the moment, not fighting thoughts that arise, but not indulging them (just make a note of them and let them go) for a period of time.
the second I'm able to turn my brain off I just fall asleep
i know a lot of people, and not just old people, who lost jobs after 2008 but refused to take unemployment or go on food stamps or whatever because of stupid protestant work ethic bullshit and it's like
that's your money, man
use it!
(CBT book recommendations = feeling good / david d burns stuff)
It seems like a dogwhistle for procrastination with a little nap thrown in.
Achievement unlocked.
Also my boss like once every couple of months will get an e-mail from someone and be all "looks like we're dropping the ball on desktop support this ticket is a month old better talk to your team"
First off, you're their goddamn manager. I'm the team lead. If I assign them work and they don't do it it's your job to yell at them, not cower at your desk because you're inept you bald fucksack.
Second, maybe if corporate hadn't just cut off our old ticketing system and juiced up a new one that's buggy af we wouldn't be missing tickets.
Now go make me a sandwich.
So now everything is wet and I am 47% more miserable than I normally am
gottem
A lot.
I won £5.60
Anyone wanna float the other £19994.40 it would cost?
You're too naturally coherent to make it really bad. There's not nearly enough periphrasis.
what are you saying