for simulations, do you RNG every unforseeable factor for several test runs, or do you just go out of your way to try to break your game and fix it from there?
i tried to make everyone some manner of special, so that's a lot of unforseeable factors to test
for simulations, do you RNG every unforseeable factor for several test runs, or do you just go out of your way to try to break your game and fix it from there?
i tried to make everyone some manner of special, so that's a lot of unforseeable factors to test
The one thing I look for when people ask for mechanics to be reviewed or through my own games are the ways to break the game. For example, if you can find a way that one person can never die or can somehow out an entire opposing team etc, those tend to be bad things to allow.
If everyone's a special, you may just note in the OP that your game is not necessarily balanced, just to forewarn people.
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thorgotthere is special providencein the fall of a sparrowRegistered Userregular
for simulations, do you RNG every unforseeable factor for several test runs, or do you just go out of your way to try to break your game and fix it from there?
i tried to make everyone some manner of special, so that's a lot of unforseeable factors to test
I generally go through the longest scenario, and the worst case scenarios for each side. If any major side is basically out of the game in a few days if they make a few mistakes, you know there is a problem. If the game could go down to 2 kills a day with 40 people left, you know there is a problem. Also, when doing a simulation, it's not worth worrying about powers other than kills. There are too many factors there to even begin to simulate.
Keep an eye on the number of kills the bad guys have vs. the number of kills the good guys have. Keep in mind that serial killers (lone wolves) count as good kills, because SKs are vigilantes until the very end of the game.
In terms of making everybody special, I did that in my carefully balanced game. Make sure that one side doesn't have an unfair advantage. If you make everybody special, give the monsters special powers, too. Balance out good specials by giving them bad qualities, like making them millers. Add counters to especially powerful roles, like thralls for seers and power suppression for guardians.
The one thing I look for when people ask for mechanics to be reviewed or through my own games are the ways to break the game. For example, if you can find a way that one person can never die or can somehow out an entire opposing team etc, those tend to be bad things to allow.
If everyone's a special, you may just note in the OP that your game is not necessarily balanced, just to forewarn people.
Definitely the first thing. People might think one side played well, but if there is an obvious way to break the game, they will know it was unbalanced.
Better is to actually balance it, which is what he's trying to do. :-p
I think I shall !sign up for the main phalla list and Ardor will be helping me with it. Title for now is Mistborn.
Also if anyone needs help running their phalla I would like to volunteer. I want to learn what goes on on the other end of phallas.
I'd like to run a mini at some point during my winter break. Do you have AIM or something to discuss things? I find it helps a lot when running a game.
i would really appreciate help on mine too, eventually
i think it's got a lot of really good angles, but i'd want at least one other dude to look through it, see if it was feasible....add their own flavor...
A chatlog between me and Tarranon, prior to the creation of the first phalla game in D&D. There's some stuff there unrelated to the game, but I'm too lazy to edit them out.
Tarranon: you're invited. to a picnic. Monster picnic. And humans are allowed. Elki: i don't hang with zombies
and nonhumans Tarranon: What about vampirs? Elki: especially vampires. uppity upperclass suckers Tarranon: well tough cause you're playing anyway Tarranon: Anyway yeah, I'm making a forum game. I'm just waiting for one more mod to get back to me. The game works thusly;
A group of villagers, group of vampires, one seer. Villagers vote to stake everyone every night. Vampires eat someone every night. Seer dreams about someone every night to see
if they're a vampire or not. Game ends when the number of villagers and vampires are equal, or when all the vamps are taken out.
Wanna play? Elki: who's the seer? Tarranon: Everything is decidedly with a random number generator.
*decided Elki: fuck the mods, i'm ok with it
let's do this! Tarranon: cheers. We'll beging tonight Elki: what? not now? boooo! Tarranon: You can't just play with one person Elki: fuck you! Tarranon: THAT IS INSOLENCE! YOU ARE SPEAKING INSOLENCE TO ME Elki: are you gonna start a thread, later? Tarranon: to be sure Elki: i might one-up you and do it before you're here. without actually starting the game, that is
muwahahaha Tarranon: Man, only I know the finer intricacies of said game.
Besides, if you're the game master, so to speak, you don't get to be a vampire, seer, or innocent villager. Elki: fuck that, and fuck you
ok, fine. i'll just talk about it in the chat thread Tarranon: I was going to make a post there as well.
but you can make it as you're more of a regular than I.
I'm still admin though :P
Unless you're not really going to make it in which case I should if we're to be ready by tonight. Elki: is this setup by some sort of website you'll be linking to later, or will it just take place in the thread? Tarranon: the thread. Actually I'm just gonna make the thread now.
Tarranon: So, what's a nice name for the town in which this will all take place? Elki: i tried thinking of one, but i'm blank
just remember to put my name on top of the players' list
top! Tarranon: I thought about being random and just calling it the village of france. Elki: Wangville
? Tarranon: too easy Elki: like your mom Tarranon: BAM Tarranon: homoeroticism is probably a given, but we need someway to make it grandiloquent. Tarranon: How about the village of Phalla. Elki: i like it Tarranon: What's this about Jeffe being doublemoded? Elki: look on the top of D&D. you'll see "Moderators: ElJeffe, D&D Mods"
and he's also listed under D&D Mods Tarranon: Heheh. But in reality, that just means he's the head mod, right? Elki: don't know. i've never seen it before, unless somebody was temp-modding a different subforum Tarranon: I've seen it a couple of times. Elki: ok, get back to making the game! Tarranon: What's a fancy latin way of saying in detail Elki: i don't know, and i'm going to watch some tvee now. put my name on the top! Tarranon: I'll put your name on the top as long as its in alphabetical order :P
Tarranon: if you're there, I need to to proof read these rules for me to see if they make sense Elki: k
i said K! Tarranon: just putting the finishing touches This is a mod-approved forum game(tm)
Okay chaps, chappettes, and chapsticks, let us beging our journey into insanity.
The game in brief;
A group of villagers, group of vampires, one seer. Villagers vote to stake everyone every night. Vampires eat someone every night. Seer dreams about someone every night to see
if they're a vampire or not. Game ends when the number of villagers and vampires are equal, or when all the vamps are taken out.
The game in detail;
An original vampire, here after referred to as the OV, chooses a number of villagers to be the other vampires, here after referred to as OV. The number of OVs the OV can pick is
entirely dependent on how many obtuse villagers there are(OVs). The OV and OVs decide unanimously which OV they want to eat. The OVs will be informed which OV has been eaten at
the time of the OVs death.
The seer PMs the moderator telling him who he wants to dream about. The seer is then told whether the villager is a vampire.
Both the vampire and the seer are chosen through a random number generator that is in no influenced by hand it except through sheer will power alone or if I just keep using it
until it lands on who I wanted to pick anyway which I guess could still be put under sheer will power.
The villagers each vote for who they think is the vampire.
So, this is what happens at the end of each day;
The villagers stake whoever has the most votes, and are told whether they've killed an innocent villager or a vampire.
The seer dreams about someone and is informed what they are.
The vampire(s) eat someone. The village is informed of who died.
The meat of the game is of course, the intrigue. There is no way you can prove anything conclusively, and you must rely on insight, pattern recognition, and good old criminal
psychology.
Further rules:
Dead men tell no tales.
Voting ends at 12 midnight est. I need to have the vampire's decision, and the seer's target before then every night.
If you vote for someone, have,"I vote for ____" in bold
If you retract your vote for someone, say,"I retract my vote for ___ and instead vote ______", in bold.
You can do anything you want to convince others that you're the seer, innocent villager, whatever you want them to believe.
Elki: but it's Elki approved *keeps reading* Tarranon: Short addendum:
I suggest that you do not get into a deadlock. If you do, you have one hour past midnight for someone to change their vote. The first person to gain the lead after the deadlock
will by summarily executed. Otherwise, the decision will be enforced via an electronic coin flipper. I have one in my garage that a one armed man sold me in Arabia seven years
ago.
PMing is most assuredly allowed, but try not to keep everything there. It's boring for the spectators.
Depending on the number of people we have, I reserve the right to add new functions to the game to keep it interesting. Elki: all clear Tarranon: right-o. Beginning launch
PS Janson said Right oh to me today. Silly self enforcing british stereo types. Elki: she does that to me too
hehe Tarranon: man, I spelled Monsieur and Mademoiselles right on my first try. Lucky me.
10 minutes Tarranon: Well then, you do all the advertising
Also; buy Xenosaga III Elki: shouldn't i get I and II first? Tarranon: well okay fine jeez get all of them. You like space opera, right? Elki: i'm not sure Tarranon: how about animes in space. Elki: how about family guy, and last night's episode which i'm going to watch now?
laters Tarranon: k
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thorgotthere is special providencein the fall of a sparrowRegistered Userregular
Tarranon: So, what's a nice name for the town in which this will all take place? Elki: i tried thinking of one, but i'm blank
just remember to put my name on top of the players' list
top! Tarranon: I thought about being random and just calling it the village of france. (D:) Elki: Wangville
? Tarranon: too easy Elki: like your mom Tarranon: BAM Tarranon: homoeroticism is probably a given, but we need someway to make it grandiloquent. Tarranon: How about the village of Phalla. Elki: i like it
Hey Drez what's up with Royal Flush? Also Larry are you ready to go? If there's another 6 deaths tonight/tomorrow in Norse Phalla i'd like to try and start my mini on monday, but don't want to jump Drez if he's going to be restarting.
I have an idea for a Dwarf Fortress Phalla, but it is ridiculously complex at the moment. I think a lot of my fundamentals are good though (the factions, roles, etc.)
From the little I've seen of DF I just can't see the village winning a phalla based on it. :P It is an awesome theme, though and maybe some DF fans will join in as well.
I got the DF phalla the list for D&D since that is more of my home forum.
I'll to try to make it epic, but I didn't really think of multiple threads and proboards in my current plans for it. I'm going to try to see how much of the narrative and mechanics of the game can be adapted (probably moreso the version prior to Z-axis).
One detail I'm pretty set on: the village vote is going to be for who gets the hunting job assigned to them. Hunting for elephants. You can probably guess how that will end up.
I got the DF phalla the list for D&D since that is more of my home forum.
I'll to try to make it epic, but I didn't really think of multiple threads and proboards in my current plans for it. I'm going to try to see how much of the narrative and mechanics of the game can be adapted (probably moreso the version prior to Z-axis).
One detail I'm pretty set on: the village vote is going to be for who gets the hunting job assigned to them. Hunting for elephants. You can probably guess how that will end up.
I don't suppose anyone knows what's going on with Phalla games in SE++ by chance do they? I sent a pm to Bogey a week ago and haven't heard back. Whether he's not got the time to deal with it or he's hashing it out with Thinatos to figure out whether SE will even have them anymore, I don't know.
Just thought I'd ask since we were going to ask for a time slot in a 2 weeks to host a game there, but can't go forward unless we get an approval.
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GumpyThere is alwaysa greater powerRegistered Userregular
edited November 2007
Can I get myself signed up to the end of that darn fine list?
I don't suppose anyone knows what's going on with Phalla games in SE++ by chance do they? I sent a pm to Bogey a week ago and haven't heard back. Whether he's not got the time to deal with it or he's hashing it out with Thinatos to figure out whether SE will even have them anymore, I don't know.
My guess is it's under discussion elsewhere, and it's best to just wait for Bogey's response(and I imagine he will, though it may take some time).
I think I'm going to change my game to a venture bros themed game and then do the mob one when I'm due up again, I just think I would be really into running a venture bros themed game.
Posts
Make sure to do a few simulations to make sure it is somewhat balanced.
i tried to make everyone some manner of special, so that's a lot of unforseeable factors to test
The one thing I look for when people ask for mechanics to be reviewed or through my own games are the ways to break the game. For example, if you can find a way that one person can never die or can somehow out an entire opposing team etc, those tend to be bad things to allow.
If everyone's a special, you may just note in the OP that your game is not necessarily balanced, just to forewarn people.
I generally go through the longest scenario, and the worst case scenarios for each side. If any major side is basically out of the game in a few days if they make a few mistakes, you know there is a problem. If the game could go down to 2 kills a day with 40 people left, you know there is a problem. Also, when doing a simulation, it's not worth worrying about powers other than kills. There are too many factors there to even begin to simulate.
Keep an eye on the number of kills the bad guys have vs. the number of kills the good guys have. Keep in mind that serial killers (lone wolves) count as good kills, because SKs are vigilantes until the very end of the game.
In terms of making everybody special, I did that in my carefully balanced game. Make sure that one side doesn't have an unfair advantage. If you make everybody special, give the monsters special powers, too. Balance out good specials by giving them bad qualities, like making them millers. Add counters to especially powerful roles, like thralls for seers and power suppression for guardians.
Definitely the first thing. People might think one side played well, but if there is an obvious way to break the game, they will know it was unbalanced.
Better is to actually balance it, which is what he's trying to do. :-p
Also if anyone needs help running their phalla I would like to volunteer. I want to learn what goes on on the other end of phallas.
Steam
I'd like to run a mini at some point during my winter break. Do you have AIM or something to discuss things? I find it helps a lot when running a game.
i think it's got a lot of really good angles, but i'd want at least one other dude to look through it, see if it was feasible....add their own flavor...
Elki: i don't hang with zombies
and nonhumans
Tarranon: What about vampirs?
Elki: especially vampires. uppity upperclass suckers
Tarranon: well tough cause you're playing anyway
Tarranon: Anyway yeah, I'm making a forum game. I'm just waiting for one more mod to get back to me. The game works thusly;
A group of villagers, group of vampires, one seer. Villagers vote to stake everyone every night. Vampires eat someone every night. Seer dreams about someone every night to see
if they're a vampire or not. Game ends when the number of villagers and vampires are equal, or when all the vamps are taken out.
Wanna play?
Elki: who's the seer?
Tarranon: Everything is decidedly with a random number generator.
*decided
Elki: fuck the mods, i'm ok with it
let's do this!
Tarranon: cheers. We'll beging tonight
Elki: what? not now? boooo!
Tarranon: You can't just play with one person
Elki: fuck you!
Tarranon: THAT IS INSOLENCE! YOU ARE SPEAKING INSOLENCE TO ME
Elki: are you gonna start a thread, later?
Tarranon: to be sure
Elki: i might one-up you and do it before you're here. without actually starting the game, that is
muwahahaha
Tarranon: Man, only I know the finer intricacies of said game.
Besides, if you're the game master, so to speak, you don't get to be a vampire, seer, or innocent villager.
Elki: fuck that, and fuck you
ok, fine. i'll just talk about it in the chat thread
Tarranon: I was going to make a post there as well.
but you can make it as you're more of a regular than I.
I'm still admin though :P
Unless you're not really going to make it in which case I should if we're to be ready by tonight.
Elki: is this setup by some sort of website you'll be linking to later, or will it just take place in the thread?
Tarranon: the thread. Actually I'm just gonna make the thread now.
Tarranon: So, what's a nice name for the town in which this will all take place?
Elki: i tried thinking of one, but i'm blank
just remember to put my name on top of the players' list
top!
Tarranon: I thought about being random and just calling it the village of france.
Elki: Wangville
?
Tarranon: too easy
Elki: like your mom
Tarranon: BAM
Tarranon: homoeroticism is probably a given, but we need someway to make it grandiloquent.
Tarranon: How about the village of Phalla.
Elki: i like it
Tarranon: What's this about Jeffe being doublemoded?
Elki: look on the top of D&D. you'll see "Moderators: ElJeffe, D&D Mods"
and he's also listed under D&D Mods
Tarranon: Heheh. But in reality, that just means he's the head mod, right?
Elki: don't know. i've never seen it before, unless somebody was temp-modding a different subforum
Tarranon: I've seen it a couple of times.
Elki: ok, get back to making the game!
Tarranon: What's a fancy latin way of saying in detail
Elki: i don't know, and i'm going to watch some tvee now. put my name on the top!
Tarranon: I'll put your name on the top as long as its in alphabetical order :P
Tarranon: if you're there, I need to to proof read these rules for me to see if they make sense
Elki: k
i said K!
Tarranon: just putting the finishing touches
This is a mod-approved forum game(tm)
Okay chaps, chappettes, and chapsticks, let us beging our journey into insanity.
The game in brief;
A group of villagers, group of vampires, one seer. Villagers vote to stake everyone every night. Vampires eat someone every night. Seer dreams about someone every night to see
if they're a vampire or not. Game ends when the number of villagers and vampires are equal, or when all the vamps are taken out.
The game in detail;
An original vampire, here after referred to as the OV, chooses a number of villagers to be the other vampires, here after referred to as OV. The number of OVs the OV can pick is
entirely dependent on how many obtuse villagers there are(OVs). The OV and OVs decide unanimously which OV they want to eat. The OVs will be informed which OV has been eaten at
the time of the OVs death.
The seer PMs the moderator telling him who he wants to dream about. The seer is then told whether the villager is a vampire.
Both the vampire and the seer are chosen through a random number generator that is in no influenced by hand it except through sheer will power alone or if I just keep using it
until it lands on who I wanted to pick anyway which I guess could still be put under sheer will power.
The villagers each vote for who they think is the vampire.
So, this is what happens at the end of each day;
The villagers stake whoever has the most votes, and are told whether they've killed an innocent villager or a vampire.
The seer dreams about someone and is informed what they are.
The vampire(s) eat someone. The village is informed of who died.
The meat of the game is of course, the intrigue. There is no way you can prove anything conclusively, and you must rely on insight, pattern recognition, and good old criminal
psychology.
Further rules:
Dead men tell no tales.
Voting ends at 12 midnight est. I need to have the vampire's decision, and the seer's target before then every night.
If you vote for someone, have,"I vote for ____" in bold
If you retract your vote for someone, say,"I retract my vote for ___ and instead vote ______", in bold.
You can do anything you want to convince others that you're the seer, innocent villager, whatever you want them to believe.
Elki: but it's Elki approved *keeps reading*
Tarranon: Short addendum:
I suggest that you do not get into a deadlock. If you do, you have one hour past midnight for someone to change their vote. The first person to gain the lead after the deadlock
will by summarily executed. Otherwise, the decision will be enforced via an electronic coin flipper. I have one in my garage that a one armed man sold me in Arabia seven years
ago.
PMing is most assuredly allowed, but try not to keep everything there. It's boring for the spectators.
Depending on the number of people we have, I reserve the right to add new functions to the game to keep it interesting.
Elki: all clear
Tarranon: right-o. Beginning launch
PS Janson said Right oh to me today. Silly self enforcing british stereo types.
Elki: she does that to me too
hehe
Tarranon: man, I spelled Monsieur and Mademoiselles right on my first try. Lucky me.
10 minutes
Tarranon: Well then, you do all the advertising
Also; buy Xenosaga III
Elki: shouldn't i get I and II first?
Tarranon: well okay fine jeez get all of them. You like space opera, right?
Elki: i'm not sure
Tarranon: how about animes in space.
Elki: how about family guy, and last night's episode which i'm going to watch now?
laters
Tarranon: k
Class A. :P
pip pip!
Oh elephants definitely play a role, but not that one.
a phalla on it sounds interesting though
too interesting. If you want a second or third co-hoster dude for whenever it starts up, I'll be happy to oblige.
Actually that might be good, I am going to be busy this week and most of the week afterwards, so hopefully by that time it will be my turn.
3DS: 2852-6809-9411
By which you mean zombie elephants, correct?
I'll to try to make it epic, but I didn't really think of multiple threads and proboards in my current plans for it. I'm going to try to see how much of the narrative and mechanics of the game can be adapted (probably moreso the version prior to Z-axis).
One detail I'm pretty set on: the village vote is going to be for who gets the hunting job assigned to them. Hunting for elephants. You can probably guess how that will end up.
With an after-party?
Just thought I'd ask since we were going to ask for a time slot in a 2 weeks to host a game there, but can't go forward unless we get an approval.
My guess is it's under discussion elsewhere, and it's best to just wait for Bogey's response(and I imagine he will, though it may take some time).