The Tobey Maguire spiderman seems like a socially clueless guy who would get picked on, write a list of bullies to kill, and get expelled when someone else saw it
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
It's a culturally accepted thing, which is really shitty
I literally saw a kid get made fun of because he was reading a manga in school today
he was sitting at a table reading it and people shouted across a lunch room to mock him
because kids are assholes
It's a true stereotype because it's still super common
And still super shitty
But being a bully has nothing to do with being into sports, or even anything to do with being physically fit. SM comics reinforce the notion that they do (note that Parker, though being incredibly strong, does not participate in sporting activities & these activities are almost always framed in a negative sense).
Contrast that with the way that, say, Calvin & Hobbes (since this comic that I like more was mentioned!) presents the same problems & similar situations: Calvin is a sympathetic protagonist that the reader can identify with but isn't romanced the same way that Parker was. In the comics where C&H deal explicitly with bullying, the author tells the reader that, yup, sometimes the world is shitty & full of shitty people and you'll just have to deal with that in a more or less powerless capacity.
Old SM creates a morality play by demonizing a large body of people & cultural interest with a stereotype & assigning virtue to nerd awkwardness (again, new SM doesn't do this, etc etc). I don't like that.
I question how much virtue was assigned to Parker, even in the early years of the comics
Like, at one point Flash gets kidnapped by Doctor Doom (comics!) and Parker's immediate reaction is basically "LOL guess that's Flash taken care of for me!" before he realises that, wait, that's a kind of shitty reaction, I should probably go rescue him
The moral which runs through those early comics - from my nostalgic viewpoint, at least - is that people are fundamentally people, and can be both nice and awful regardless of whether we're inclined to view them as heroes or villains
Kirsten Dunst looks kinda silly as a redhead in that video these days
I am surprised at how cheesy that whole clip looks
Sam Raimi's Spidermans are absolutely cheesy as fuck. We all forget it because at the time there was little else to compare it to. But after the comic book movie boom it helped spawn adopted a different style altogether, it's really noticeable.
It's also why Spiderman 3 flops so badly imo because the whole black suit thing just doesn't fit the style he's going for at all.
They should have a Spider-Man movie with Miles Morales where Flash and Kong aren't jocks but are motivated by racism.
or just get rid of Flash because he's an awful character, and not have Spider-Man be the victim of bullying?
like, I don't think it's actually a good thing to have a super-hero be the victim of bullying
because it's not like he's going to respond to that in the nuanced, mature, healthy way that they really should in real life to convey a good and healthy message to kids
no he's gonna kick that bully's ass with his superpowers and I am making a face at that idea
It's a culturally accepted thing, which is really shitty
I literally saw a kid get made fun of because he was reading a manga in school today
he was sitting at a table reading it and people shouted across a lunch room to mock him
because kids are assholes
It's a true stereotype because it's still super common
And still super shitty
But being a bully has nothing to do with being into sports, or even anything to do with being physically fit. SM comics reinforce the notion that they do (note that Parker, though being incredibly strong, does not participate in sporting activities & these activities are almost always framed in a negative sense).
Contrast that with the way that, say, Calvin & Hobbes (since this comic that I like more was mentioned!) presents the same problems & similar situations: Calvin is a sympathetic protagonist that the reader can identify with but isn't romanced the same way that Parker was. In the comics where C&H deal explicitly with bullying, the author tells the reader that, yup, sometimes the world is shitty & full of shitty people and you'll just have to deal with that in a more or less powerless capacity.
Old SM creates a morality play by demonizing a large body of people & cultural interest with a stereotype & assigning virtue to nerd awkwardness (again, new SM doesn't do this, etc etc). I don't like that.
I don't think it assigns "virtue" to nerd awkwardness. In the panels you posted he's being awkward because he's trying to avoid a situation where he'll be mocked so he can leave and go fight crime and save people's lives. He's awkward because he's a nerd, but also because he's trying to keep his identity secret.
And sadly, being a bully does have a lot to do with being into sports. As does being physically fit. It's an easy vector to target for bullies. There's a reason bullies are often stereotyped in media as being jocks and the head football player. Quite often those positions have been pressured to be really shitty to people who aren't in that group. I myself was mocked by a coach in my high school because of a school article I wrote. He mocked my article to his classes and his team because he disagreed with it, and I didn't even have his class. But that coach chose to tell his students, my classmates, that my article was ridiculous. (my article was part of a pro/con thing by two writers about the Iraq War. I wrote the Con side, suggesting it was a bad idea at the time.)
This isn't something pulled out of air to mock athletes, it's a very real problem that still exists. Of course not all athletes and jocks are like that, but there has absolutely been a culture that encourages it.
Spider-Man and stuff like it was one of the few things telling nerdy kids that they don't deserve to be treated like that. And in addition, instead of going on power trip revenge fantasies against the jocks, Spider-Man tells people he has more important things to do like saving people!
I wonder what Calvin would look like as a high schooler.
I do hope the new Spider-Man movie doesn't include Flash and doesn't make Peter into a bullied nerd
that would be nice
CAVEAT!
Newer takes on Flash are pretty good, so if they use a modern interpretation of the character I'll be on board with it (physically fit guy who is into sports & happens to conflict with Peter because they want the same girl. Peter is not, in most modern stories, given moral virtue in this love triangle just because he's a nerd and Flash isn't).
Flash also becomes a vet & loses his legs & goes on special ops missions wearing Venom to compensate for his disability and while some of that goes into whacky comic books territory it is still p. awesome.
With Love and Courage
0
thatassemblyguyJanitor of Technical Debt.Registered Userregular
Kirsten Dunst looks kinda silly as a redhead in that video these days
I am surprised at how cheesy that whole clip looks
hot take: The Tobey Macguire Spider-Man movies are bad and cheesy and always have been
our standards for super-hero movies was super low back in those days
also the first X-Men movie was fucking garbo
I don't want to watch the first X-Men movie again because I have mostly good memories and I am 100% sure they'll be ruined. Especially after seeing that spidey clip.
I wonder, in 50 years, will we be making fun of how cheesy Civil War/Winter Soldier are?
Kirsten Dunst looks kinda silly as a redhead in that video these days
I am surprised at how cheesy that whole clip looks
hot take: The Tobey Macguire Spider-Man movies are bad and cheesy and always have been
our standards for super-hero movies was super low back in those days
also the first X-Men movie was fucking garbo
I don't want to watch the first X-Men movie again because I have mostly good memories and I am 100% sure they'll be ruined. Especially after seeing that spidey clip.
I wonder, in 50 years, will we be making fun of how cheesy Civil War/Winter Soldier are?
Are we not doing that now?
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
It's a culturally accepted thing, which is really shitty
I literally saw a kid get made fun of because he was reading a manga in school today
he was sitting at a table reading it and people shouted across a lunch room to mock him
because kids are assholes
It's a true stereotype because it's still super common
And still super shitty
But being a bully has nothing to do with being into sports, or even anything to do with being physically fit. SM comics reinforce the notion that they do (note that Parker, though being incredibly strong, does not participate in sporting activities & these activities are almost always framed in a negative sense).
Contrast that with the way that, say, Calvin & Hobbes (since this comic that I like more was mentioned!) presents the same problems & similar situations: Calvin is a sympathetic protagonist that the reader can identify with but isn't romanced the same way that Parker was. In the comics where C&H deal explicitly with bullying, the author tells the reader that, yup, sometimes the world is shitty & full of shitty people and you'll just have to deal with that in a more or less powerless capacity.
Old SM creates a morality play by demonizing a large body of people & cultural interest with a stereotype & assigning virtue to nerd awkwardness (again, new SM doesn't do this, etc etc). I don't like that.
I don't think it assigns "virtue" to nerd awkwardness. In the panels you posted he's being awkward because he's trying to avoid a situation where he'll be mocked so he can leave and go fight crime and save people's lives. He's awkward because he's a nerd, but also because he's trying to keep his identity secret.
And sadly, being a bully does have a lot to do with being into sports. As does being physically fit. It's an easy vector to target for bullies. There's a reason bullies are often stereotyped in media as being jocks and the head football player. Quite often those positions have been pressured to be really shitty to people who aren't in that group. I myself was mocked by a coach in my high school because of a school article I wrote. He mocked my article to his classes and his team because he disagreed with it, and I didn't even have his class. But that coach chose to tell his students, my classmates, that my article was ridiculous. (my article was part of a pro/con thing by two writers about the Iraq War. I wrote the Con side, suggesting it was a bad idea at the time.)
This isn't something pulled out of air to mock athletes, it's a very real problem that still exists. Of course not all athletes and jocks are like that, but there has absolutely been a culture that encourages it.
Spider-Man and stuff like it was one of the few things telling nerdy kids that they don't deserve to be treated like that. And in addition, instead of going on power trip revenge fantasies against the jocks, Spider-Man tells people he has more important things to do like saving people!
I wonder what Calvin would look like as a high schooler.
I'm going to take umbrage here with your characterizing of school sports culture ("jocks") as somehow being uniquely suited to or prone to perpetuating bullying, when the reality is the only thing that makes "jocks" more likely to be bullies is A.) Toxic masculinity in general, which is not at all unique to sports cultures and is fucking rotten in nerd cultures in a really pervasive low-key way and B.) More saliently, the social strata of prominence, importance, and latitude afforded to people who are successful members of sports teams. Again, because bullying is intrinsically linked to social vulnerability, people who are part of subcultures that inherently put them in a higher social standing are going to be in a better position to be bullies. That sports culture is the one that's on the top heap isn't actually a unique feature of sports culture itself, sorry that a coach was a dickhead to you bro.
There is so much hideous, toxic bullying and gross masculine bullshit in nerd culture and I do call it out frequently (to the point that people in chat give me shit for it), so if you want to say "The problem is teenagers are awful", I'll deffo agree but if you're gonna sit there and go "lol fuck jocks"
I like that Parker is a victim of bullying and I like that (for the most part) he is tempted to turn the tables on Flash but doesn't really act on it.
He realizes that exerting his newfound strength on somebody weaker then him makes him a bully, too. That's a good message for nerds, IMO.
I can totally sympathize that Flash Thompson feels like a stereotype of jocks, especially 50 years later when we've seen that same stereotype played out a million times across all different media.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Kirsten Dunst looks kinda silly as a redhead in that video these days
I am surprised at how cheesy that whole clip looks
hot take: The Tobey Macguire Spider-Man movies are bad and cheesy and always have been
our standards for super-hero movies was super low back in those days
also the first X-Men movie was fucking garbo
I don't want to watch the first X-Men movie again because I have mostly good memories and I am 100% sure they'll be ruined. Especially after seeing that spidey clip.
I wonder, in 50 years, will we be making fun of how cheesy Civil War/Winter Soldier are?
I rewatched the original trilogy recently. Unsurprisingly, #2 holds up the best and #3 is still pretty bad.
But the stuff that is dumb in #1 is the same stuff that was dumb when the movie was new.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I like that Parker is a victim of bullying and I like that (for the most part) he is tempted to turn the tables on Flash but doesn't really act on it.
He realizes that exerting his newfound strength on somebody weaker then him makes him a bully, too. That's a good message for nerds, IMO.
I can totally sympathize that Flash Thompson feels like a stereotype of jocks, especially 50 years later when we've seen that same stereotype played out a million times across all different media.
The problem is that there's very few adaptations of Spider-Man that include Flash where Peter doesn't kick Flash's ass with his new super-powers. The Raimi movie is an excellent example. Is Peter technically defending himself against Flash's attack? At first, yes. But then he fuckin' punches Flash into next fuckin' week and it's like...
Man, I just do not like the moral that sends kids who are the victims of bullying.
They should have a Spider-Man movie with Miles Morales where Flash and Kong aren't jocks but are motivated by racism.
or just get rid of Flash because he's an awful character, and not have Spider-Man be the victim of bullying?
like, I don't think it's actually a good thing to have a super-hero be the victim of bullying
because it's not like he's going to respond to that in the nuanced, mature, healthy way that they really should in real life to convey a good and healthy message to kids
no he's gonna kick that bully's ass with his superpowers and I am making a face at that idea
But that's not even what Raimi's Spiderman does. He eventually goes from just avoiding engagement to actively kicking his ass as he goes on a powertrip and just feels awesome, to realising that he's just made people dislike him more and think he's a freak.
The whole point of that scene is to establish his power and then showcase how doing exactly what you are talking about, just beating up the bully, doesn't really fix his him.
Spiderman's whole thing is basically built on this premise whereby his use of his powers for personal satisfaction and power-tripping cost him and he makes a conscious turn towards altruism.
Peter Parker being the target of bullying is part of his character because it establishes his place in the social hierarchy (the lowest level) and showcases the kind of person he is by the way he doesn't use his powers to try to ass-kick his way up the food chain and instead consciously works to suppress those impulses within himself and to be a better person.
Maybe instead of a jock, Flash could be the dude who works at the DMV. And his girlfriend could be Kirsten Bell. And Peter Parker could be not really a superhero, but a scam artist who gets caught up in a missing persons investigation with a rookie cop.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I like that Parker is a victim of bullying and I like that (for the most part) he is tempted to turn the tables on Flash but doesn't really act on it.
He realizes that exerting his newfound strength on somebody weaker then him makes him a bully, too. That's a good message for nerds, IMO.
I can totally sympathize that Flash Thompson feels like a stereotype of jocks, especially 50 years later when we've seen that same stereotype played out a million times across all different media.
The problem is that there's very few adaptations of Spider-Man that include Flash where Peter doesn't kick Flash's ass with his new super-powers. The Raimi movie is an excellent example. Is Peter technically defending himself against Flash's attack? At first, yes. But then he fuckin' punches Flash into next fuckin' week and it's like...
Man, I just do not like the moral that sends kids who are the victims of bullying.
Point taken.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Kirsten Dunst looks kinda silly as a redhead in that video these days
I am surprised at how cheesy that whole clip looks
hot take: The Tobey Macguire Spider-Man movies are bad and cheesy and always have been
our standards for super-hero movies was super low back in those days
also the first X-Men movie was fucking garbo
I don't want to watch the first X-Men movie again because I have mostly good memories and I am 100% sure they'll be ruined. Especially after seeing that spidey clip.
I wonder, in 50 years, will we be making fun of how cheesy Civil War/Winter Soldier are?
I don't think so. The costume design in Civil War & Winter Soldier is great, compared to the largely terrible costuming in SM. The CGI elements will look dated, but Civil War & WS don't lean on them as much as SM leaned on its own CGI elements for spidey's action scenes.
At least Sam Raimi, for the most part, knows how to do camp right.
Not sure what was going on with SM3 tho.
As I remember it was alot of studio interference trying to jam the black suit/Venom plot into the movie. He originally wanted to do just a Sandman thing.
So SM3 ends up with a plot the tone can't really handle properly and which the director I think clearly believes is stupid and ridiculous and so he treats it as such.
Kirsten Dunst looks kinda silly as a redhead in that video these days
I am surprised at how cheesy that whole clip looks
hot take: The Tobey Macguire Spider-Man movies are bad and cheesy and always have been
our standards for super-hero movies was super low back in those days
also the first X-Men movie was fucking garbo
I don't want to watch the first X-Men movie again because I have mostly good memories and I am 100% sure they'll be ruined. Especially after seeing that spidey clip.
I wonder, in 50 years, will we be making fun of how cheesy Civil War/Winter Soldier are?
I don't think so. The costume design in Civil War & Winter Soldier is great, compared to the largely terrible costuming in SM. The CGI elements will look dated, but Civil War & WS don't lean on them as much as SM leaned on its own CGI elements for spidey's action scenes.
I've met a couple of people who absolutely can't suspend their disbelief towards Cap's shield ricochet shenanigans.
It's a pretty seminal aspect of the character but I can see it being something we roll our eyes at in a few decades.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Kirsten Dunst looks kinda silly as a redhead in that video these days
I am surprised at how cheesy that whole clip looks
hot take: The Tobey Macguire Spider-Man movies are bad and cheesy and always have been
our standards for super-hero movies was super low back in those days
also the first X-Men movie was fucking garbo
I don't want to watch the first X-Men movie again because I have mostly good memories and I am 100% sure they'll be ruined. Especially after seeing that spidey clip.
I wonder, in 50 years, will we be making fun of how cheesy Civil War/Winter Soldier are?
I rewatched the original trilogy recently. Unsurprisingly, #2 holds up the best and #3 is still pretty bad.
But the stuff that is dumb in #1 is the same stuff that was dumb when the movie was new.
SM1 was always really weak in alot of ways and only skated by on being out on it's own with nothing competing with it really. The origin part is really strong and then, like most origin films, it flounders as it can't find any way to make the rest of the movie work after the origin is done.
X-Men 1, on the other hand, I'd say is surprisingly not bad still. The biggest issue is there's no real sense of letting loose with the mutant fights like you kinda want them to and also the perennial issue of Wolverine the best, Cyclops the worst. But even that is muted compared to what it is in later films and there's a better sense of balance between the two and even a hint of them coming to some sort of understanding towards the end where they don't like each other but do respect each other. But mostly it's not bad.
+2
y2jake215certified Flat Birther theoristthe Last Good Boy onlineRegistered Userregular
Brief thought about westworld (full season):
I don't know where they can even go from here? It basically has to become a totally different show
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
to be clear I poop on the Raimi Spider-Man movies and the first X-Men movie not because of like
badly dated CGI or whatever
but because I think they're terribly written and have some dodgy as fuck acting and are badly paced and have really fucked up messaging
a few caveats:
1. I have never, ever liked the hyper-serious take on the X-Men that tries to compare their plight to racism, homophobia, or anti-Semitism (aka most takes on the X-Men). It's offensive as fuck and I hate it and have always hated it since I was a fuckin' child. It's why I generally don't like the X-Men as a whole.
2. The plot of the first X-Men is DUMB.
3. The first X-Men movie was made when super-heroes were still considered too lame to be mainstream film properties and couldn't be adapted straight, so it is full of outright sneering at the source material ("Would you prefer yellow spandex?"). It's part of the Smallville generation of super-hero adaptations that were Too Cool For School.
4. Tobey Macguire is a bad actor and was a bad choice for Peter Parker and is really a bad choice to be in... movies.
5. The pacing of the Spider-Man films are AWFUL in general.
6. The dialogue of the Spider-Man films are terrible but this might be intentional Raimi camp? idk
0
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
edited December 2016
"cheesy" is a spectacularly useless word
some people use it to describe a thing that doesn't take itself 100% seriously and indulges in theatrics or in winks to the audience
other people use it to describe something that has the temerity to take itself or its genre content more seriously than they think it ought to
some people use it to mean "cheap." other people use it to mean "dated." all do so without really introspecting or explaining why those things are de facto bad
Posts
Spider-Man is a cheesy, goofy, playful superhero. And we love him for that.
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
that would be nice
I question how much virtue was assigned to Parker, even in the early years of the comics
Like, at one point Flash gets kidnapped by Doctor Doom (comics!) and Parker's immediate reaction is basically "LOL guess that's Flash taken care of for me!" before he realises that, wait, that's a kind of shitty reaction, I should probably go rescue him
The moral which runs through those early comics - from my nostalgic viewpoint, at least - is that people are fundamentally people, and can be both nice and awful regardless of whether we're inclined to view them as heroes or villains
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
next time i get into a series maybe i'll invite friends to watch so we can talk symmetrically
Sam Raimi's Spidermans are absolutely cheesy as fuck. We all forget it because at the time there was little else to compare it to. But after the comic book movie boom it helped spawn adopted a different style altogether, it's really noticeable.
It's also why Spiderman 3 flops so badly imo because the whole black suit thing just doesn't fit the style he's going for at all.
or just get rid of Flash because he's an awful character, and not have Spider-Man be the victim of bullying?
like, I don't think it's actually a good thing to have a super-hero be the victim of bullying
because it's not like he's going to respond to that in the nuanced, mature, healthy way that they really should in real life to convey a good and healthy message to kids
no he's gonna kick that bully's ass with his superpowers and I am making a face at that idea
I don't think it assigns "virtue" to nerd awkwardness. In the panels you posted he's being awkward because he's trying to avoid a situation where he'll be mocked so he can leave and go fight crime and save people's lives. He's awkward because he's a nerd, but also because he's trying to keep his identity secret.
And sadly, being a bully does have a lot to do with being into sports. As does being physically fit. It's an easy vector to target for bullies. There's a reason bullies are often stereotyped in media as being jocks and the head football player. Quite often those positions have been pressured to be really shitty to people who aren't in that group. I myself was mocked by a coach in my high school because of a school article I wrote. He mocked my article to his classes and his team because he disagreed with it, and I didn't even have his class. But that coach chose to tell his students, my classmates, that my article was ridiculous. (my article was part of a pro/con thing by two writers about the Iraq War. I wrote the Con side, suggesting it was a bad idea at the time.)
This isn't something pulled out of air to mock athletes, it's a very real problem that still exists. Of course not all athletes and jocks are like that, but there has absolutely been a culture that encourages it.
Spider-Man and stuff like it was one of the few things telling nerdy kids that they don't deserve to be treated like that. And in addition, instead of going on power trip revenge fantasies against the jocks, Spider-Man tells people he has more important things to do like saving people!
I wonder what Calvin would look like as a high schooler.
Not sure what was going on with SM3 tho.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
CAVEAT!
Newer takes on Flash are pretty good, so if they use a modern interpretation of the character I'll be on board with it (physically fit guy who is into sports & happens to conflict with Peter because they want the same girl. Peter is not, in most modern stories, given moral virtue in this love triangle just because he's a nerd and Flash isn't).
Flash also becomes a vet & loses his legs & goes on special ops missions wearing Venom to compensate for his disability and while some of that goes into whacky comic books territory it is still p. awesome.
This is not true.
(i.e., i still think red-head Dunst is p. cute)
I don't want to watch the first X-Men movie again because I have mostly good memories and I am 100% sure they'll be ruined. Especially after seeing that spidey clip.
I wonder, in 50 years, will we be making fun of how cheesy Civil War/Winter Soldier are?
Are we not doing that now?
I'm going to take umbrage here with your characterizing of school sports culture ("jocks") as somehow being uniquely suited to or prone to perpetuating bullying, when the reality is the only thing that makes "jocks" more likely to be bullies is A.) Toxic masculinity in general, which is not at all unique to sports cultures and is fucking rotten in nerd cultures in a really pervasive low-key way and B.) More saliently, the social strata of prominence, importance, and latitude afforded to people who are successful members of sports teams. Again, because bullying is intrinsically linked to social vulnerability, people who are part of subcultures that inherently put them in a higher social standing are going to be in a better position to be bullies. That sports culture is the one that's on the top heap isn't actually a unique feature of sports culture itself, sorry that a coach was a dickhead to you bro.
There is so much hideous, toxic bullying and gross masculine bullshit in nerd culture and I do call it out frequently (to the point that people in chat give me shit for it), so if you want to say "The problem is teenagers are awful", I'll deffo agree but if you're gonna sit there and go "lol fuck jocks"
c'mon dude.
He realizes that exerting his newfound strength on somebody weaker then him makes him a bully, too. That's a good message for nerds, IMO.
I can totally sympathize that Flash Thompson feels like a stereotype of jocks, especially 50 years later when we've seen that same stereotype played out a million times across all different media.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
If we don't embrace the cheese, the grimdark will come back to take its place.
this single fly has been in my apartment for three days and he's my terror
what have i done to deserve
You say fly
I think you mean "new roommate"
Flash is there, but as a change hes Latino not white
I rewatched the original trilogy recently. Unsurprisingly, #2 holds up the best and #3 is still pretty bad.
But the stuff that is dumb in #1 is the same stuff that was dumb when the movie was new.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
The problem is that there's very few adaptations of Spider-Man that include Flash where Peter doesn't kick Flash's ass with his new super-powers. The Raimi movie is an excellent example. Is Peter technically defending himself against Flash's attack? At first, yes. But then he fuckin' punches Flash into next fuckin' week and it's like...
Man, I just do not like the moral that sends kids who are the victims of bullying.
But that's not even what Raimi's Spiderman does. He eventually goes from just avoiding engagement to actively kicking his ass as he goes on a powertrip and just feels awesome, to realising that he's just made people dislike him more and think he's a freak.
The whole point of that scene is to establish his power and then showcase how doing exactly what you are talking about, just beating up the bully, doesn't really fix his him.
Spiderman's whole thing is basically built on this premise whereby his use of his powers for personal satisfaction and power-tripping cost him and he makes a conscious turn towards altruism.
Peter Parker being the target of bullying is part of his character because it establishes his place in the social hierarchy (the lowest level) and showcases the kind of person he is by the way he doesn't use his powers to try to ass-kick his way up the food chain and instead consciously works to suppress those impulses within himself and to be a better person.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Point taken.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I don't think so. The costume design in Civil War & Winter Soldier is great, compared to the largely terrible costuming in SM. The CGI elements will look dated, but Civil War & WS don't lean on them as much as SM leaned on its own CGI elements for spidey's action scenes.
Open a window and freeze him to death.
gross
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
As I remember it was alot of studio interference trying to jam the black suit/Venom plot into the movie. He originally wanted to do just a Sandman thing.
So SM3 ends up with a plot the tone can't really handle properly and which the director I think clearly believes is stupid and ridiculous and so he treats it as such.
The black suit arc is not campy, it's angsty.
The mistake was the second franchise, which only existed at all so Sony could hold on to the rights.
I'm pretty stoked about Spidey coming back to Marvel, personally.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I've met a couple of people who absolutely can't suspend their disbelief towards Cap's shield ricochet shenanigans.
It's a pretty seminal aspect of the character but I can see it being something we roll our eyes at in a few decades.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
SM1 was always really weak in alot of ways and only skated by on being out on it's own with nothing competing with it really. The origin part is really strong and then, like most origin films, it flounders as it can't find any way to make the rest of the movie work after the origin is done.
X-Men 1, on the other hand, I'd say is surprisingly not bad still. The biggest issue is there's no real sense of letting loose with the mutant fights like you kinda want them to and also the perennial issue of Wolverine the best, Cyclops the worst. But even that is muted compared to what it is in later films and there's a better sense of balance between the two and even a hint of them coming to some sort of understanding towards the end where they don't like each other but do respect each other. But mostly it's not bad.
maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
badly dated CGI or whatever
but because I think they're terribly written and have some dodgy as fuck acting and are badly paced and have really fucked up messaging
a few caveats:
1. I have never, ever liked the hyper-serious take on the X-Men that tries to compare their plight to racism, homophobia, or anti-Semitism (aka most takes on the X-Men). It's offensive as fuck and I hate it and have always hated it since I was a fuckin' child. It's why I generally don't like the X-Men as a whole.
2. The plot of the first X-Men is DUMB.
3. The first X-Men movie was made when super-heroes were still considered too lame to be mainstream film properties and couldn't be adapted straight, so it is full of outright sneering at the source material ("Would you prefer yellow spandex?"). It's part of the Smallville generation of super-hero adaptations that were Too Cool For School.
4. Tobey Macguire is a bad actor and was a bad choice for Peter Parker and is really a bad choice to be in... movies.
5. The pacing of the Spider-Man films are AWFUL in general.
6. The dialogue of the Spider-Man films are terrible but this might be intentional Raimi camp? idk
some people use it to describe a thing that doesn't take itself 100% seriously and indulges in theatrics or in winks to the audience
other people use it to describe something that has the temerity to take itself or its genre content more seriously than they think it ought to
some people use it to mean "cheap." other people use it to mean "dated." all do so without really introspecting or explaining why those things are de facto bad
it's pointless