non-crazy survivalist info/communities?

Reznik · December 2016

So both as a matter of personal interest and as research for a writing project, I'd like to know if there are any survivalist groups/information repositories online that aren't crazy fringe political movements.

I just want to read about strategies for preparing for and surviving a societal collapse/disaster/apocalypse scenario in as practical a matter as possible without all the insane racist/religious/anti-government/they're takin' muh guns bullshit. Most of my survival knowledge is pretty typical wilderness survival stuff based on the assumption that you'll be signaling for rescue, so I'd like any resources that might cover surviving in an urban area and/or operating on the assumption that there is no rescue.

CelestialBadger · December 2016

Why don't you read up on things like how people are surviving in the Syrian civil war? That's pretty much how it would go.

Noquar · December 2016

Hmm..maybe r/preppers on reddit? There is also r/bushcraft and some great info in r/wildernessbackpacking

DevoutlyApathetic · December 2016

@amateurhour does this stuff and is not insane. Perhaps he could give you some sources.

Reznik · December 2016

@Noquar thanks for the suggestions, r/preppers is looking solid so far. I was initially leery of just searching reddit because of the uh... tone that a lot of subs have taken in recent months.

@CelestialBadger good idea. Do you have any particular sources? I haven't really been following the coverage about Syria to be honest, so I'm not sure where to start looking.

amateurhour · December 2016

Hey Hey!

Whatcha need to know, specifically?

amateurhour · December 2016

I am a prepper, albeit not a crazy religious one.

Are you looking for survival or homesteading? The difference being one is the first 30-90 days and one is after that period when everyone has already wiped each other out and you're facing the next 10 years post perishable goods expiring.

ceres · December 2016

I think even from the standpoint of crazy/religious/guns, growing a plant is growing a plant and ability to find water is ability to find water. It might be more useful to specify exactly what kind of info you need rather than where you don't want to find it. The answers to those questions will also be radically different depending on where you live... Where I'm from there are tons of streams and lakes and trees and plants and squirrels and what have you, but right now I live in the desert. The landscape, water situation, small animals, and predators look a lot different. If our local infrastructure fails there is not really a "next town over" for us to head to that's less than 45 minutes away, and that's by car.

I can tell you right away from my own limited research though that whether or not society collapses, something people don't think about having to hand which they *really should* is a convenient waterproof storage for all their medication as well as any excess that you can grab in one motion and gtfo. This is a good thing to have not just in the case of dropping bombs, but also for earthquakes, fires, hurricanes... anything that could force you out of your home very quickly with no way to return for at least a couple days. I can't go more than two full days without my medications without.. like.. dying. I need to have as much to hand as possible to allow me to reach the next place with a pharmacy.

In fact, IMO it's a good idea to know exactly how to handle going off your medications as well. It's always the first thing I ask my doctor when I start taking something new: "How do I get off this?" "What is the withdrawal like?" Going off your medication is something you should only do under a doctor's supervision... unless there isn't a doctor, you're going to run out before you can find more, and you can technically live without it. Know the names (and generics!) of everything you take, how to prioritize them for refill, how vital they are, and how to handle needing to be without them (or having limited access) for an extended period of time. Write it all down on a piece of paper to keep in that container if you need to. One of my medications will kill me if I just stop taking it, but if I can see it's going to be a month before I can get more and I only have a week's worth, I am very familiar with how to get off and back on it safely. Another medication I can't live without but that's over a longer term, so it's better to try to make that stretch. Another won't kill me to be off it, it's just that the withdrawal is obnoxious and I'll be miserable. These are things you can do research and ask your doctor about, but so many people take those medications and types of infrastructure for granted that they often don't think to.

Survivalism kind of takes on a different feel when it's not JUST food and water you need to stay alive, but also something completely dependent on manufacture and distribution via man-made infrastructure to access.

amateurhour · December 2016

That's a really good point.

In reality food and water are two of the easier things to come by (assuming this isn't a nuclear threat)

For water, you can get by fine having a sawyer mini or katadyn filter in your pack and access to water itself. any kind of food grade metal can also be used to boil water.

You can go three (miserable) weeks without food, but just having a small booklet with edible plants in your area can go a long way to not making that an issue either.

Reznik · December 2016

amateurhour wrote: »

I am a prepper, albeit not a crazy religious one.

Are you looking for survival or homesteading? The difference being one is the first 30-90 days and one is after that period when everyone has already wiped each other out and you're facing the next 10 years post perishable goods expiring.

I guess I'm interested in both. For me personally it would be survival in an urban scenario. I'm stuck in an apartment downtown where it's 45 min to an hour drive in any direction to reach the city limits. So evaluating whether it's better to hunker down and wait it out or go, what can be stored with the limited space I have, traveling without access to a vehicle, concerns about security/self defense (I work out regularly and train muay thai, but I am also a tiny person and don't have access to guns because Canada) etc. Given my location the likely causes of some kind of disaster would be a severe blizzard, widespread power outage, or some kind of attack.

For the writing project, definitely homesteading. This would be in the western great lakes region around the Canadian border. Strategies for making it through the winter and defending against human threats would be especially important.

@Ceres Very good points. I'm lucky in that the only meds I'm on aren't strictly necessary, so going off them would be kind of uncomfortable but not life threatening. But I know my mom is on a bunch of different stuff that would likely have some awful effects if she just stopped.

On the topic of medicine - I know there are some trees whose bark/sap contains salicylic acid so they can be used for actual pain relief/reducing fevers/etc. Are there any other notable natural sources of actual medicine that would be worthwhile to note?

amateurhour · December 2016

/r/homesteading on reddit has fantastic resources. It covers everything from chickens to crops and solar power in between.

as for medicine. Look into the "bushcraft 101" and "advanced bushcraft" books by Dave Canterbury. They go into some detail on medicinal uses of plants. You can get a copy of the wild edible plants guide for your geographical area on little full color index cards for like $4 on amazon. Also check out holistic medicine shops. They'll have the complete info on what herbs and plants grow wild that can be eaten or smoked to help with minor ailments.

as for survival. I always say start small and keep it simple.

Ideally you want two packs. One to keep in a vehicle that has everything you need to get back to your home or survive outdoors for a night, and your home pack which has everything you need to survive 30 days.

I personally don't like the idea of staying in a city, but if you're in an apartment building, have you considered a rooftop garden or aquaponics system?

Reznik · December 2016

Unfortunately, my apartment is in a converted corner store and I'm on the ground floor, so there's no spot for a rooftop garden. I have a decent sized window ledge and a large front window that gets quite a bit of sun in the summer so I could probably grow something smallish there. Possibly on my bedroom window ledge too.

I'll definitely check out that sub and those books, thanks.

amateurhour · December 2016

Reznik wrote: »

Unfortunately, my apartment is in a converted corner store and I'm on the ground floor, so there's no spot for a rooftop garden. I have a decent sized window ledge and a large front window that gets quite a bit of sun in the summer so I could probably grow something smallish there. Possibly on my bedroom window ledge too.

I'll definitely check out that sub and those books, thanks.

You need a good square foot of soil to grow anything other than herbs.

I've done small apartment gardens with those clay pots (12 and 14 inch) and done peppers and tomatoes but you couldn't grow enough to sustain you. Your best bet there is to get fresh veggies from the farmers market and can them yourself, same with jerky or dried meats.

You could do herbs though. One cool thing I've seen if you can get the light right is to use one of those door hanging "shoe caddies" and line the pockets with plastic and soil and turn it into a 5x30 herb garden. Those are pretty cool.

Look into the "5 Cs of survival"

Cutting, Cordage, Combustion, Cover, and Containers

If you have a cutting tool, paracord or twine, something to make fire, cover from the elements, and containers to boil water or cook or keep food secure, you've covered your basic needs.

I keep a plain e-ink kindle and a 10wat portable solar charger in my bug out bag. The kindle has like 100 books on farming, survival, bushcraft, topographical maps, primitive skills, auto repair, converting motors to generators, etc and another of my favorite 500 or so books (history and fiction)

It'll run for a month between charges and I can juice it in about four hours with the solar panel. It's about a $150 investment that pays for itself in knowledge.

hsu · December 2016

The Modern Survival Manual: Surviving the Economic Collapse
Written by Fernando "Ferfal" Aguirre
http://www.themodernsurvivalist.com/

It basically documents the aftermath of the Argentine Peso and how it dramatically affected the Argentine economy, turning a once shining first world country into a second world, near third world country, over the course of 15 years.

The main highlights:
1. Collapse is slow, as in years slow. Even devaluation of the peso from 1 to 1 (compared to the USA dollar) to 6 to 1 overnight, it still took years for problems to show up, and the nation never collapsed totally.
2. You best survival skill is how to make money. Even in a bad economy, even in high unemployment, even in high crime, even in high inflation, cash is king, and people who can make money in bad times will still hold all the cards.
3. Your second best survival skill is making friends. Lots of stuff become available only through black market means, so the only way to get them is by knowing the right person, which means making lots of friends.
4. Live in big cities. The countryside gets screwed by the government when things go poorly - police resources stop going into rural areas, farms get taken over forcefully in order to feed the city, stuff like that. Basically, the government will keep the cities running even if they have to destroy the countryside to do it.
5. Government still exists. No matter how bad things get, the police are still there to enforce local laws, the army is still there to enforce federal laws - enforcement just becomes haphazard, nepotistic or corrupt, but it still happens. Aka, you'll still have to pay your taxes, even when your whole world seems to be falling apart. And while criminals seem to get away with murder, you'll still go to jail for shooting a burglar in your own house, particularly if you aren't on good terms with the local police.

His books, his information, easily the best I've read about what actually happens when your nation crashes.

amateurhour · December 2016

You may not specifically be looking into firearms but sooner or later you're gonna need to eat and I've got mechanical traps, they're hard to fucking use... : )

I posted this in D&D chat cause of gun buds but this is my survival rifle

It's a Chiappa Little Badger. It's 22lr which is a really common ammo and can pretty much take down anything up to a coyote. This particular rifle is single shot, so I have to manually eject the shell each time by breaking the rifle open.

I've got a paracord wrap on the barrel for a foregrip for added stability and easier grip in cold weather. I've also got a reflex sight for better aiming, a detachable flashlight, and in the pouch on the stock I've got a firesteel, a field skinning knife, 100 rounds of subsonic (quiet) 22lr, a compass, and some water purification tablets.

This rifle is everything I need to walk into the woods, shoot a squirrel or rabbit, clean it, and be able to start a fire and roast and/or boil it.

In total I've got maybe $320 in the rifle with accessories.

hsu · December 2016

Reznik wrote: »

but I am also a tiny person and don't have access to guns because Canada

This is false. You can easily get a firearms license and buy many different types of firearms in Canada, as long as you have clean police record. In particular, pretty much every rimfire, pump action, lever action, bolt action or break open shotgun or rifle is legal to purchase with just your firearms license. Heck even many types of semi-automatic rifles and shotguns are considered non-restricted in Canada.

Reznik · December 2016

hsu wrote: »

Reznik wrote: »

but I am also a tiny person and don't have access to guns because Canada

This is false. You can easily get a firearms license and buy many different types of firearms in Canada, as long as you have clean police record. In particular, pretty much every rimfire, pump action, lever action, bolt action or break open shotgun or rifle is legal to purchase with just your firearms license. Heck even many types of semi-automatic rifles and shotguns are considered non-restricted in Canada.

Right, I've looked into what I need to do to get my PAL and everything 'cause I've been interested in getting something just for target shooting for a while, but I walk or bus everywhere. I wouldn't want to own a gun without being comfortable shooting it, but I'm not confident that I could actually transport the gun to the range without incident. I know some cities have bylaws about firearms on buses, though I can't find anything that says either way for my city. But it's not a particularly pro-gun town, so I wager my chances of getting the cops called on me even if I'm transporting the gun according to the law to be somewhere in the high 90s.

I do eventually want to get something, just a gun is probably last on my list of gear right now.

Basar · December 2016

I live in a city built on a geological fault and the 1999 earthquake near us took more than 15,000 lives, mostly by getting stuck under collapsed buildings. I have been volunteering with a local search and rescue group for 3 years now and the first thing they taught us (in terms of survival) was to have a backpack ready next to your apartment door so that as soon as you feel it, you can grab it and leave ASAP. Here are the things that I have in my bag:

- 5 x 1 liter water bottles
- Water purification tablets
- Water filter
- 3 days worth of food
- Medication and first aid kit
- Head torch / flashlight
- Utility knife with a can opener
- Hunting knife (if the whole city is destroyed and if I can make it to the woods)
- Portable radio
- Spare batteries
- Pen and paper, copies of ID & passport (this is mainly because I live in a shitty country)
- Small bills adding up to $300
- Paracord
- Raincoat, warm clothing and trekking shoes (very light, in case I don't have time to grab my shoes)
- Waterproof matches, cotton balls, charcloth and vaseline for fire starting.
- Bug spray (our town was infested with mosquitoes the last time)
- Edible plants book

I think there are a couple more items in there but I am too lazy to take a look right now. What's important is that this is always ready and everything is up to date (canned food is good up to 3-5 years, medication less). My bag weighs close to 10 kgs but I am a built guy and I have hiked with 15 kg backpacks before so it's not a big deal.

I am a camper in good times so I am pretty good with bushcraft.

I highly recommend volunteering in a local but professional search and rescue group because there are incredible people with amazing experiences to share. One of our instructors has been to 70+ earthquake zones and has personally saved more than 1000 people. And he is humble as f.ck.

Reznik · December 2016

Thanks guys for all the advice, this is great.

@amateurhour I really love the kindle + solar charger idea. What kind of solar charger do you have?

@Basar that is a fantastic list, thanks. What size/style is your backpack to fit all that in there? I do need to invest in a good backpack, but I'm not sure if I should be looking at military surplus or outdoors/hiking packs or what.

The search and rescue group is a great idea. I've found one for my area so I'll see about contacting them in the new year since all their training dates have passed.

At the moment I think I'm gonna start with the 5 Cs. I have a firestriker and some wax-dipped cotton balls (played around with them at camp - they're great as tinder) but I'll probably grab some extra matches too. I'll hit up MEC and check out their selection of multi-tools and pick up some paracord too.

amateurhour · December 2016

This is my solar panel

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006ZSE6TM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=12SF2XWWVDQGL&coliid=I1C5XKHOHGSIWR&psc=1

They've updated it. The new power brick it comes with is nicer than the one I have and it's about $30 less than it used to be so this is a good deal. It can charge my cell (samsung) in about 6 hours.

I saw emergency radios mentioned, so here's mine

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WS6SKTM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=12SF2XWWVDQGL&coliid=I2OMGMSTNQOV2M&psc=1

I've got a master list of all the gear in my bug out bag, my car bag, my primitive camping pack, as well as food/water rations and firearms ammo. I keep it on a text file but I'm at work and will be in the woods through tomorrow afternoon.

I'll try to post it Sunday for you to give you an idea of a good starting point of things to have.

Reznik · December 2016

Awesome, thanks so much!

I'm aiming to go camping in a few national parks with my aunt next year so if I can get most of the essentials bought before then it'll be great to take everything for a spin, so to speak.

I wonder if there would be enough interest in this to make a general emergency preparedness thread in D&D? (or maybe there was one and I missed it)

Basar · December 2016

Reznik wrote: »

@Basar that is a fantastic list, thanks. What size/style is your backpack to fit all that in there? I do need to invest in a good backpack, but I'm not sure if I should be looking at military surplus or outdoors/hiking packs or what.

The search and rescue group is a great idea. I've found one for my area so I'll see about contacting them in the new year since all their training dates have passed.

I have a Condor 3 Day Assault Pack: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004VRKWR4/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's a bit tight for my stuff but my shoes are tied to the bag.

S&R groups are great places to learn about basic skills. Volunteering is very satisfying. Regardless of your skills or schedule, you can be a part of one of many units. I am volunteering in the Logistics unit and we have several sub-units such as field communications, medical logistics, IT, transportation, etc. There are also other units outside of logistics such as training, public relations (press, design, social media), HR (mainly to process volunteer forms, applications, etc.), finance and emergency operations (this usually includes just one or two coordinators and they coordinate the operations of other units during active search and rescue + K9s). I have my S&R certificates but didn't have to do any human S&R as I am based in Istanbul and we haven't had any major disasters thankfully and most of the calls we get in the city are for cats stuck on trees, dogs that are trapped in the highway median (lots of strays here) and sometimes vehicle rescues.

Good luck!

amateurhour · December 2016

I use the Paratus 3 day pack

https://www.amazon.com/Operators-Military-Compatible-Tactical-Backpack/dp/B00CICGI2W

Like Basar, it's a bit tight once I get the sleeping bag in there and the tent strapped to it and all the gear. It clocks in around 30lbs and I wouldn't want to hike 10 miles with it but it's got changes of clothes, shelter, all the tools I need to build a long term shelter, and enough food for 3-5 days in addition to what I can harvest from the land.

As far as a D&D thread I've got a general camping thread there, but not an emergency preparedness thread. I doubt there's enough interest to keep it active.

darkmayo · December 2016

amateurhour wrote: »

You may not specifically be looking into firearms but sooner or later you're gonna need to eat and I've got mechanical traps, they're hard to fucking use... : )

I posted this in D&D chat cause of gun buds but this is my survival rifle

It's a Chiappa Little Badger. It's 22lr which is a really common ammo and can pretty much take down anything up to a coyote. This particular rifle is single shot, so I have to manually eject the shell each time by breaking the rifle open.

I've got a paracord wrap on the barrel for a foregrip for added stability and easier grip in cold weather. I've also got a reflex sight for better aiming, a detachable flashlight, and in the pouch on the stock I've got a firesteel, a field skinning knife, 100 rounds of subsonic (quiet) 22lr, a compass, and some water purification tablets.

This rifle is everything I need to walk into the woods, shoot a squirrel or rabbit, clean it, and be able to start a fire and roast and/or boil it.

In total I've got maybe $320 in the rifle with accessories.

Is it just me or does anyone else want this gun in Fallout 4

amateurhour · December 2016

darkmayo wrote: »

amateurhour wrote: »

You may not specifically be looking into firearms but sooner or later you're gonna need to eat and I've got mechanical traps, they're hard to fucking use... : )

I posted this in D&D chat cause of gun buds but this is my survival rifle

It's a Chiappa Little Badger. It's 22lr which is a really common ammo and can pretty much take down anything up to a coyote. This particular rifle is single shot, so I have to manually eject the shell each time by breaking the rifle open.

I've got a paracord wrap on the barrel for a foregrip for added stability and easier grip in cold weather. I've also got a reflex sight for better aiming, a detachable flashlight, and in the pouch on the stock I've got a firesteel, a field skinning knife, 100 rounds of subsonic (quiet) 22lr, a compass, and some water purification tablets.

This rifle is everything I need to walk into the woods, shoot a squirrel or rabbit, clean it, and be able to start a fire and roast and/or boil it.

In total I've got maybe $320 in the rifle with accessories.

Is it just me or does anyone else want this gun in Fallout 4

I've heard that from several people in D&D. For a single shot it's a pretty solid rifle.

Siska · December 2016

I've read that rabbit meat has the best protein/effort ratio, unless you are willing to eat grubs. So I guess if the world ends one of your first stop should be a pet store and hope they have un-neutered male and female bunnies. Followed by a stop at a hardware store for chicken wire so you can build a couple of large enclosures for them. But you will need to find a steady carb intake as well. Because rabbit meat is too lean and protein poisoning is a thing if that is all you eat.

CelestialBadger · December 2016

Chickens are easy to keep and provide both meat and eggs. They can be fed on kitchen scraps. Not really relevant to an apartment dweller though.

Mortal Sky · December 2016

I am very glad this thread exists. Most survival communities online are terrifying

Deadfall · December 2016

Actually I am too. I learned a few things today.

Radiation · December 2016

Also would suggest looking at Ham Radio stuff. It's a fairly old person hobby and can have some downsides, but I've learned a lot from picking it up and I did radio/satcom maintenance in the military.

Also I think the Ranger manual is cited a lot on survival stuff? Not sure if that's the crazy militia people though and if anything would be relevant.

WiseManTobes · December 2016

One of the few things I remember from back in the day doing bush rescue is get your ass one of those thin but strong clear plastic tarps, even a large one will only weigh a pound or two.

Is a shelter that can double as water purification.

dispatch.o · December 2016

There are a few manuals on how to kill/clean various animals in as efficient and humane way as possible. It's a grim business, but knowing that catfish can fuck up your day, scent glands can ruin meat and what the most nutrient / vitamin / calorie dense things on specific animals is a pretty useful thing. There are also animals to avoid because of health and safety concerns. I can't say I recall what the guides I used to have were called, I got them at a garage sale when I was a kid and into camping and such. I'm sure @amateurhour probably knows of several.

One for animals local to your region, another for plants/edibles in weather-proof format if you can get it (like the kindle in a good bag/case mentioned above)

Edit: Some people get a little crazy with the wrong things, in my opinion. Basic medical knowledge, some sort of antibiotics and plan for clean water/shelter/fire is worth a hell of a lot more than a cache of guns and MRE's. It's difficult sometimes to find disaster preparation stuff that isn't just an avenue for someone's personal fetish (bunker/gun porn for example)

amateurhour · December 2016

dispatch.o wrote: »

There are a few manuals on how to kill/clean various animals in as efficient and humane way as possible. It's a grim business, but knowing that catfish can fuck up your day, scent glands can ruin meat and what the most nutrient / vitamin / calorie dense things on specific animals is a pretty useful thing. There are also animals to avoid because of health and safety concerns. I can't say I recall what the guides I used to have were called, I got them at a garage sale when I was a kid and into camping and such. I'm sure amateurhour probably knows of several.

One for animals local to your region, another for plants/edibles in weather-proof format if you can get it (like the kindle in a good bag/case mentioned above)

Edit: Some people get a little crazy with the wrong things, in my opinion. Basic medical knowledge, some sort of antibiotics and plan for clean water/shelter/fire is worth a hell of a lot more than a cache of guns and MRE's. It's difficult sometimes to find disaster preparation stuff that isn't just an avenue for someone's personal fetish (bunker/gun porn for example)

All of this is true. Unless you live in a bunker compound on 100 acres having 30 guns and 20,000 rounds of ammo does you dick in regards to long term survival.

A .22 with 1000 rounds weighs nothing, will last for a decade in terms of ammo usage, and can take pretty much any game on the North American continent up to a deer.

Learning edible plants is smart but tricky. The basics are chicken of the wood (tree mushrooms, bright orangeish/pink), polk lettuce, and onions. Toward the ocean you've got seaweed and kelp but it's REALLY salty so fresh water is must. Anything past that requires HEAVY knowledge and someone to show you what to and not to eat before you try it.

You're not really going to screw up with rabbits, squirrel, or bream/bluegill/bass when it comes to fish as far as danger goes. Anything past that you should learn their defense mechanism in advance so you don't end up on the receiving end of it.

I'll put together a book list along with my gear list tomorrow. I just got back from the woods today. Tried to make a flint knife which I broke in half (but that gave me a nice shard which could be used to skin small game or strike against my knife to start a fire, so I put it in my pack) and skinned/processed two deer (about 80lbs of meat)

Someone mentioned HAM radio. Personally I haven't messed with it but I've got a couple of CB radios and I don't know MORSE code by heart but since it takes up no space I keep a MORSE alphabet in my bug out bag. It's not just a radio that can use MORSE, a signal mirror or flashlight can too.

Ranger manuals are good, and if you end up getting a paracord bracelet or necklance get one with Ranger beads. They're abacus style knots you can use to measure distance. Like every 100 steps you move a knot up and that's 100 yards, so you know how far you've traveled.

BlazeFire · December 2016

WiseManTobes wrote: »

One of the few things I remember from back in the day doing bush rescue is get your ass one of those thin but strong clear plastic tarps, even a large one will only weigh a pound or two.

Is a shelter that can double as water purification.

I think you're referring to a silnylon (silicon impregnated nylon) tarp.

Reznik · December 2016

This is all fantastic, thanks so much guys.

I've started throwing the basics for my BOB into my Amazon cart, but there's an awesome military surplus store in my hometown so I'm going to check it out first when I head home for Christmas. It seems like everything on Amazon.ca is about $30-$50 more than its American counterpart.

As far as flashlights go, are those dynamo lights any good or should I just get a solid battery operated one and stock up on batteries?

Captain Marcus · December 2016

The Ranger manual has a good section on survival but most of the manual is tactics and military strategy. I picked up the SAS Survival Handbook a while back and it's got color illustrations of edible and poisonous plants for different biomes, which was nice. Really though, anything you buy is going to have the same info- how to build different kinds of fires, where to find food, how to build shelters, etc.

amateurhour · December 2016

Just a note on military surplus stores.

They aren't what they used to be.

There's still a few things here and there worth picking up but by and large they haven't been useful since around Vietnam.

Surplus isn't what it was post WW2, and most of the stuff they have at this point is OLD.

HOWEVER, if you want a good, cheap pack, get one of these.

http://www.ima-usa.com/original-british-army-p-58-od-green-haversack-large-back-pack.html

That's what I use as my "primitive" pack.

amateurhour · December 2016

Okay,

here's my FULL list of gear

All of this is designed for overnight/weekend camping trips and a 30day bug out (home bag)

The thing is, there's survival, and homesteading. If you're going for long term, the idea is to use your limited supplies for 30 days then find some land to fortify and build upon. The end goal is to start off in the woods (or wherever) until things settle down, then become a farmer, more or less. I'm constantly reorganizing these kits and playing with them so I may have not listed something here. Feel free to ask questions about specific products or something that may be missing.

edit: I didn't list the contents of the primitive pack because it's mostly a thing I do as a hobby and I enjoy primitive camping (canvas tarps, flint and steel, candle/oil lanterns, etc.) I don't think it would be particularly useful other than as a fun list of camping gear but if anyone is interested I can list it later.

Hope this helps!

Worn Daily

- baseball cap
- paracord survival bracelet with compass, firesteel, fishing kit)
- watch (casio G-Shock, solar powered)
- belt
- knife (folding pocket knife)
- wallet
- cell phone
- keys (I have a bottle opener with a screwdriver and a small milsurp knife sharpener on the keyring)
- sunglasses
- eye drops
- lighter
- chap stick

Camping Gear (Paratus 3 Day pack (home bug out bag))

- water bottle (army canteen with insulated belt pouch, molle attached to pack)
- lightweight cook pot (with insulated mug, bowl, steel spork/knife, and a penny alcohol stove inside)
- cook cup (camp mug)
- small pouch of coffee and tea bags
- coffee/tea filter
- 3000 calorie survival ration
- food pouch (has some spices, salt, pepper, tobasco, etc)
- hatchet
- bush knife
- folding saw
- long firesteel
- bic lighter
- paracord (100ft and 30ft)
- hammock
- mosquito net for hammock
- pillow
- diy survival blanket underquilt (ultralight)
- 25 stormproof matches in waterproof case
- tinder pouch
- first aid kit
- 2 containers of stove fuel (small plastic bottles with alcohol fuel, enough to cook for a week if I can't start a fire)
- trail compass (sighting compass with lens)
- knife sharpening stone
- headlamp
- inflatable lantern (solar powered)
- small UCO 8 hour candles with a tin foil reflector
- nails
- 2 pairs t shirts
- 2 pairs underwear
- 2 pairs socks
- 1 pair of pants
- towel (microfiber)
- kindle and solar charger
- sawyer mini water filter
- water purification drops
- wool cap
- face cover (scarf)
- small spool of wire (vietnam milsurp, for snare traps)
- Dopp kit (toothbrush, toothpaste, floss, shampoo, deodorant, lotion, gold bond)
- BABY WIPES! (these cost a dollar at walmart for the hypoallergenic ones and they are the most important tool. Clean Hands, Clean Butt! (CHCB©)
- fishing kit
- chem lights
- emergency radio (crank and solar charge, can charge usb, picks up all AM/FM/Emergency bands and has a light)

Camping Gear (Bedroll attached to pack)

- 10x12 tarp
- wool blanket
- sleeping pad
- fishing pole
- sleeping bag
- Mountainsmith Morrison 2 ultralight tent with footprint

Camping Gear (Car pack)

- fire kit (firesteel, flint and steel, matches, 2 road flares)
- 01 pair of socks
- 01 t-shirt
- 01 pair of underwear
- toothbrush, soap, toothpaste
- microfiber towel
- ultralight lantern (candle) w/ spare candles (citronella if possible)
- emergency tarp
- one person ultralight tent
- lifestraw (water purification)
- flashlight
- 3000 calorie ration bar
- survival knife (fixed blade paracord handle wrap with a small sharpening stone)
- 50 feet paracord
- trash bag (container)
- compass and map of local area
- metal water bottle (can be used to boil water)

Packed in Truck

- battery powered lantern
- spare batteries (D cells and double/triple a)
- percolator
- hoodie
- sandals
- camp chair

Captain Marcus · December 2016

With the farming, are you packing seeds or finding native plants?

amateurhour · December 2016

I keep a small supply of heirloom vegetable seeds (doesn't take up a lot of space) because they tend to grow better and can be re-used year to year. Most of the stuff you'd buy at the garden department of walmart wouldn't produce enough seeds to re-grow things from year to year.

Realistically once you made it a year in there'd be shit growing everywhere so you could also find crops and wild plants.

hsu · December 2016

I will point out that homesteading is an extremist fantasy. It just will never happen in today's world.

Look at an extreme example like the Syrian civil war. You would never actually end up homesteading, because either you don't need to, because you're living next to Damascus, and thus don't even notice the war, because the central government has kept everything running, including internet/cellphone service or you'll be in a war zone, where it's far too dangerous to stay in one location for long periods.

Look at a big natural disaster like hurricane Katrina. If you've got a few weeks worth of supplies, and a gun to protect those supplies, you'll make it through the initial shortages and initial problems. Once a few weeks have passed, you'll know if the infrastructure will come back enough to stay put, and try to rebuild, or if you need to emigrate to another state for a while, until the enough infrastructure gets rebuilt to move back. In either case, you won't be homesteading.

Even high inflation or high unemployment won't cause a homesteading situation, as can be seen in places like Argentina. You don't get knocked back to grass huts, everything just slowly decays, but people will still value their cellphones, their internet, their sports cars, their XBoxes, to find someway to keep all that still running.

Basically, have a one month plan to survive a short term natural disaster, but after that, you should plan to emigrate to another state, or plan to rebuild.

Penny Arcade

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