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Penny Arcade - Comic - As Father And Son

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited December 2016 in The Penny Arcade Hub

imagePenny Arcade - Comic - As Father And Son

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

Read the full story here


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Posts

  • Huttj509Huttj509 Registered User regular
    Lesson 1: Read your cards.

    Lesson 2: No, seriously, read them, don't just skim.

    PonyPolaritieNobodyVyolyncecckerberosSeidkonaKamarGONG-00NightslyrDarkewolfeLeon2309Jacques L'HommeBurnageRingobowenadmanbTofystedethRMS OceanicLostNinjaMan in the MistsZilla360MichaelLCAndy JoeMoridin889kimeCaulk Bite 6Rhesus PositiveMegaMekDonnicton
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    The Dark Side cheats.

    (I had this epiphany many years ago, as a SW RPG game master.)

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  • sawellssawells Registered User regular
    And thus Gabe learns that if there is text in front of you YOU READ THE TEXT...

    Jerry is the Sith Lord gloating in the shadows behind this interchange. Mike is turning his son to the Text Side and Jerry will rejoice.

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  • VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    The Dark Side cheats.

    (I had this epiphany many years ago, as a SW RPG game master.)

    If the ability says "may" it's optional. That was not cheating.

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    (Former) Gaming Unplugged columnist and video game reviewer at Snackbar Games
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  • KagatoACKagatoAC Registered User regular
    Ah yes the old "I'll teach you how to play, But not all my secrets" method. and "Its not my fault you didn't read all the rules".

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  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    This way also helps him remember better for next time.

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  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    (Gabe won't play with him again)

    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
    fortyLeon2309Zilla360cB557SmrtnikSkyEyeMegaMek
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
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  • shadowysea07shadowysea07 Registered User regular
    One More thing~ "whack"

  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    The Dark Side cheats.

    (I had this epiphany many years ago, as a SW RPG game master.)

    You neglecting to read the rules isn't the same as me cheating.

    Rhesus Positive
  • poipoigirlpoipoigirl Registered User regular
    This actually might be good for the kid. To teach him that he has to read things himself because the other side won't always help him.

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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Newspost wrote:
    This “chain” represents time in a hyper-granular way so that you can discern what happens when many things are happening at once. Or, when something happens that negates something else that happened previously. There is a Zen Koan sort of texture to it; does a monster deal damage if it doesn’t exist?

  • ziddersroofurryziddersroofurry Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    "You're half an hour late home and it's a school day tomorrow. No games for a week."

    "Hey dad-remember all those cruel tricks you played on me that I never told the school therapist about?"

    "...you know what? We're good."

    Edit: Funny story-I ended up being adopted by my aunt and uncle after I almost died when I was a baby because mom couldn't afford to take care of both my sister and I after my dad left. My uncle was a great guy but he had a very twisted sense of humor. One day when I was around nine he came home and told me he'd gotten something for me. I was a pretty chubby kid back then and I would later realize I had an eating disorder but at the time my aunt and uncle just thought I liked to eat. Anyways he opens this bag and in it is the biggest Oreo cookie I've ever seen. It was about the size of a dinner plate and over an inch thick. My eyes went wide and I was filled with a great excitement. I loved Oreo's (still do) and immediately set upon it like the proverbial monkey on a muffin. It was only then I realized the cruel, cruel joke my uncle had played on me for as soon as I bit into the thing my mouth was filled with the bitter taste of Oreo-scented soap.

    At the time I felt betrayed but I got over it quickly enough yet from that point on any time he told me he had something for me I had a hard time trusting him and would become very suspicious.

    ziddersroofurry on
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  • Twenty SidedTwenty Sided Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    poipoigirl wrote: »
    This actually might be good for the kid. To teach him that he has to read things himself because the other side won't always help him.

    This always sounded vaguely dishonest to me.
    Like yes, you were weak and I hurt you because you were weak. But that's only because I want to help you learn to not be weak.
    Well no, the real reason is that I just like winning. Gabe even admits it.
    Any additional justification he provides is lying. So that's to his credit.

    I run into this shit with gamers all the time. No, no. You actually aren't giving the newcomer tough love. You just like having fun at his expense. If you're going to help, actually help. If you're not going to, don't lie about it.

    Twenty Sided on
    Leon2309cB557
  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    Because if you learn such a lesson at a young age when there are no real consequences, it can help you be better prepared decades later when there are.

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  • Twenty SidedTwenty Sided Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    Then you actually set those expectations.
    I run into this shit in League of Legends and Path of Exile all the time.
    I get that people like easy and opportunistic wins just because they're taking advantage of another person's temporary weakness.
    But if they're coming to you for advice and you're just cruelly misleading them or berating them for losing you the game because they're the weak link on the team, or if you're just trying to win the competition to teach them a lesson -- well you're being a dishonest asshole by covering it up with a tough love excuse.
    If your intentions are neutral, then you don't have to pretend to be helping them.

    Twenty Sided on
    kime
  • ziddersroofurryziddersroofurry Registered User regular
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Because if you learn such a lesson at a young age when there are no real consequences, it can help you be better prepared decades later when there are.

    Causing people pain to 'teach a lesson' isn't teaching. It's being cruel. All it does is make young people feel terrible about themselves. It erodes their trust and if there's anyone a kid should trust it's their parents. You don't hurt kids to teach them you talk to them like intelligent human beings because that's what they are.

  • MaryAmeliaMaryAmelia Registered User regular
    Well, every kid learns differently. But if I ever have a kid, I would be very proud if they are able to understand, from something like this, that they should always look out for themselves, and never be overly reliant on others.

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    poipoigirl wrote: »
    This actually might be good for the kid. To teach him that he has to read things himself because the other side won't always help him.

    This always sounded vaguely dishonest to me.
    Like yes, you were weak and I hurt you because you were weak. But that's only because I want to help you learn to not be weak.
    Well no, the real reason is that I just like winning. Gabe even admits it.
    Any additional justification he provides is lying. So that's to his credit.

    I run into this shit with gamers all the time. No, no. You actually aren't giving the newcomer tough love. You just like having fun at his expense. If you're going to help, actually help. If you're not going to, don't lie about it.

    Depends what they're missing on. There's a difference I feel between missing things sitting right in front of them like Rey (who has basically zero cost and should be used almost always) and things where they have to choose between options. The former I think the appropriate thing is to remind them during the game. The latter is more appropriate after the game I think.

    And then you get into more complicated skills that just have to be learned over time. A good example would combat math in MtG. I don't think there's any reason to hold it against someone not walking their opponent through that mid-game (or after, either...)

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  • wallywestwallywest Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    A good example would combat math in MtG. I don't think there's any reason to hold it against someone not walking their opponent through that mid-game (or after, either...)

    In general I agree. But I play with a guy, who is in fact a teacher, that just acts like an a-hole about it. Basically doing the same thing as Gabe in the comic. He'll put on his teacher face after the fact and say "you know, you should have tapped this, did that, blah blah blah" looking down his nose at you the whole time. Acting like he's trying to help when he's actually just gloating.

  • Twenty SidedTwenty Sided Registered User regular
    There's a difference between making your a kid worthy competition for you and just having fun crushing him.
    It's not that I don't get that the latter is totally fun and harmless when it's just a a game with no real consequences. And I get that Gabe would tell him how to learn from defeat after he has had the satisfaction of completely dominating him. It's one of those rare situations where you can have your cake and eat it.

    What I absolutely detest is pretending that this isn't what is actually happening. All well and good that you teach your offspring how to think critically and to develop skillsets that rebounds from defeat. But come on. Sometimes you just wanna win. And win big.

    cB557
  • dennisdennis Executive Peasant Registered User regular
    SabreMau wrote: »
    Because if you learn such a lesson at a young age when there are no real consequences, it can help you be better prepared decades later when there are.

    Causing people pain to 'teach a lesson' isn't teaching. It's being cruel. All it does is make young people feel terrible about themselves. It erodes their trust and if there's anyone a kid should trust it's their parents. You don't hurt kids to teach them you talk to them like intelligent human beings because that's what they are.

    Out of curiosity, do you have a kid? The thing with kids is that it's often really hard to try to get through their layer of obliviousness. The other thing is that this isn't really "pain". Losing a card game is an inconvenience, or "not fun", but it's not "pain." That's another lesson they'll have to learn.

    An example of the "just talking to them like a rational adult doesn't work, so sometimes you have to get creative":
    My 5 year old gets along with his 1 year old sister pretty well. But he keeps doing a specific thing that's quite annoying. He'll try to get her interested in something she can't/is not suppose have. Like last night, right before bedtime, he said "You want a BATH?" She loves bath, because it's basically like going to a swimming pool for her. (Side note: She'd already had a couple of baths, one due to vomit and the other due to... applesauce? I can't even remember.)

    So he's saying this with the tone in his voice that says "I know I'm being a jerk." Parents know what I'm talking about. We've both tried over and over explaining to him how this is not a nice thing to do to her. This time, I took a different approach. I said, "Do you want a slice of cake?" He said, "Yeah!" When I told him there was no cake, he immediately got quite frowny (and not just the melodramatic manufactured frown - parents know what I'm talking about). "That wasn't very nice." So I explained to him that this is how he's trying to make his sister feel. I think he actually finally got it.

    This is no guarantee that it will stop that behavior but as parents you do what you can. I think it was a bit cruel, but it popped the bubble and actually penetrated his brain. That's a huge victory in my book.

    Smrtnik
  • IncindiumIncindium Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    I actually had this situation happen to me in a lesser degree this weekend when playing games with the wife and kids. My son (10yo) missed a move that would have scored him bonus points in a game and then I took advantage of the what he had missed the very next turn. He started howling and my wife was frowning at me saying I was too competitive. I pulled out my phone to show her the comic to show her I wasn't the only one. My son ended up winning the game anyway so in the end it didn't matter.

    If kids are more than 5-6 yo I think there is generally more benefit to not helping them too much in games. My wife likes to help too much which I think is worse as they never learn how to do stuff on their own or how to deal with losing.

    The plus side for not helping them much is that it really is an accomplishment for them when they can beat you in certain games. My daughter (7yo) was so proud of herself when she managed to get me to concede in chess a couple weeks ago.

    Incindium on
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