Nonetheless, even this bullshit hoax crap highlights the very real issue of half of the good N64 games aren't going to be released on either online platform ever and that really sucks.
As for why I'm posting at 5:11 in the morning - I'm looking after a baby who won't sleep. And I'm really pissed off about the game.
Yes, Activision are the reason why Nintendo's opinion matters. Legally speaking, Nintendo have no jurisdiction at all here.
So if this was Perfect Dark, Microsoft have all the rights and would just publish the thing, and Nintendo can go stuff themselves. But the Bond license is necessary, so we have a ridiculous situation where a game made by Microsoft (at Rare) gets 'published' by Activision, and released by Microsoft over Live Arcade.
Basically, Activision just get free money out of this. But they won't take it, because depending on who you ask, either they want to stay on good terms with Nintendo, or they're concerned that Nintendo will sue them and the risk isn't worth the expected reward.
And this is why we get into this situation - the game has been developed without Nintendo's blessing, because Nintendo shouldn't have to give their blessing. They have no legal say here.
But Activision decided they wanted to check with them, and now... shit has happened.
This convincing you now? I am quite serious.
Actually, you just convinced me that you're full of shit.
Rare doesn't have the right to put any of their N64 stuff on XBLA without Nintendo's permission, even the stuff that isn't entangled with the James Bond license, without fully rewriting the game code (non-code assets could of course be preserved). Hucking a ROM image of, say, Perfect Dark, or Banjo-Kazooie up there wrapped in an N64 emulator would infringe on Nintendo's IP in the various N64 development libraries that Rare (and every other developer) used.
Oddjaw2 - it's the internet. So many people make fakes that there is really no trust that can be given to an anonymous source.
And seriously, how could nintendo not have a say? They published the damn game. Of course they have a stake in this.
If this is seriously true, then the fuckup is Rare's fault. They should have gauged nintendo's response before investing time and resources into a project almost anyone could tell you would NOT have nintendo's blessing.
There's no way this is legit. If anything, it would work the other way: Goldeneye would be appearing on the Wii VC. I'm not sure how the rights break down, but I believe Nintendo has the publishing/IP rights, Rare the code, and Activision the James Bond license. Regardless, the rights are broken up among the 3.
Nintendo is never giving up the publishing/IP rights just so a rival console maker can put the game on their system. Especially when Nintendo has their own download service. Can you imagine the press release from Microsoft if they landed the game? Goldeneye is a staple of the N64 library, no way no how they sign off on it. It would seem more likely for Nintendo to acquire permission from Rare, seeing as they've managed to put DKC on the VC. I realize they're different situations but there's precedent. And I'm sure Activision would be happy to take money in either case.
Anyway Reggie said they were working on it. I find it much more likely that a Nintendo published game will appear on a Nintendo service than a Nintendo game on XBLA, and Rare has to know that. They wouldn't waste time updating the game for release, unless they just did it for themselves in-house.
Nintendo shouldn't have to give their blessing. They have no legal say here.
Okay this, this is wrong. I don't know much about the situation, but if you for an instant think Nintendo would simply let the full rights to a game they published slip away when Rare was sold you are sadly mistaken. Rare got to keep their IPs - Banjo, Perfect Dark, Conker, but not the games. Nintendo published them, they've got some kind of stakes in the games that appeared on their consoles.
I don't know how I'd feel about Goleneye on the 360, honestly.
It was a greta game for its time, but I have better FPSes to be playing right now.
What they should have offered Nintendo is a simultanious release with an original version available on the Wii console, and an HD version (with NO option to switch graphics) available on the 360.
Evander on
0
Options
AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
edited November 2007
I'd feel better about this if a mod would question you and figure out if you are real or not.
Especially considering what I know about the Rare breakup with Nintendo and Microsoft's eventual purchase.
As for why I'm posting at 5:11 in the morning - I'm looking after a baby who won't sleep. And I'm really pissed off about the game.
Yes, Activision are the reason why Nintendo's opinion matters. Legally speaking, Nintendo have no jurisdiction at all here.
So if this was Perfect Dark, Microsoft have all the rights and would just publish the thing, and Nintendo can go stuff themselves. But the Bond license is necessary, so we have a ridiculous situation where a game made by Microsoft (at Rare) gets 'published' by Activision, and released by Microsoft over Live Arcade.
Basically, Activision just get free money out of this. But they won't take it, because depending on who you ask, either they want to stay on good terms with Nintendo, or they're concerned that Nintendo will sue them and the risk isn't worth the expected reward.
And this is why we get into this situation - the game has been developed without Nintendo's blessing, because Nintendo shouldn't have to give their blessing. They have no legal say here.
But Activision decided they wanted to check with them, and now... shit has happened.
This convincing you now? I am quite serious.
No, no, no.
You have the legal issues completely fucking wrong.
Activision doesn't own the James Bond ip. They have the license for it. They get nothing out of a Goldeneye release on the 360. The only ones who are legally capable of giving permission to use the James Bond ip are the IP holders, who are the same ones holding the IP for the movies and everything else -- which is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than a license holder like Activision.
Activision basically paid money to be able to use James Bond. They are not authorized to let another company use it.
If some other company approached the Bond IP holders for a license, Activision would probably try to prevent it, because they probably contracted for the exclusive rights to the IP in their license. The reason is because they paid a great deal of money for the license so that they could be the company to benefit from using James Bond ip. Letting another company use the IP would go against the very merits that Activision bargained for in the original contract in the first place!
Furthermore, of course a publisher wants to stay on good terms with a hardware manufacturer, especially when that manufacturer has the greatest market share.
However, Nintendo cannot sue Activision for greenlighting the use of IP that neither Activision nor Nintendo even own!
So there goes that theory.
This is not solely up to Nintendo.
Stop trying to blame Nintendo for something that is tripped up in a legal mess. If this project is real, it was a waste of time and resources.
I find the idea of this project to be pretty suspect. Why would Rare invest capital in something without first obtaining a dependable legal foundation? It's not as though Nintendo was going to be so impressed by the end result that they'd happily hand over the rights and potential profits for the good of the gaming public. Without having the rights from the very beginning, why would you risk something like that? It doesn't make financial sense.
This.
Some random dude pops up on a forum, claiming that Rare invested resources into something they had no license to use, no contract in place, and no real way to make sure they'll recover even a piece of their investment....and expects everyone to get pissed when Nintendo doesn't just happily say "sure, fuck us and our Virtual Console. I suppose Microsoft needs content too, and we don't like money"? Are we really supposed to take that at face value?
JihadJesus on
0
Options
AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
edited November 2007
Also, most people who want to have a living in the gaming industry don't go "fuck NDA's, I pissed" very often and expect to keep their jobs.
Then Rare is, as many have recently assumed, now staffed primarily by slapdicks and retards.
Fun internal tech demo or side project? Sure, go ahead and do it without asking anybody.
Developing something to sell eventually - for a profit - on XBox Live that is entangled with multiple IP and license holders without even bothering to get the legal stuff hammered out first? Pure lunacy.
Honestly, if this is how Rare does business now, then they deserve their newfound irrelevance.
Ultimanecat on
SteamID : same as my PA forum name
0
Options
AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
edited November 2007
Sounds like bullshit but even if it isn't, why would you expect Nintendo to help Microsoft's Xbox 360 business in any way?
I didn't say this was an N64 emulator running a Goldeneye ROM. It's the original Goldeneye source code, recompiled and modified to run on 360 (with support added for networking, dual-analog controllers, etc). I'm not a lawyer, but presumably the legal situation between the two is different. At least, I assume it is, since, this is actually what happened.
But thanks plufim - I see I'm not going to achieve anything here. I'll try another approach. Bye everyone.
Then Rare is, as many have recently assumed, now staffed primarily by slapdicks and retards.
Fun internal tech demo or side project? Sure, go ahead and do it without asking anybody.
Developing something to sell eventually - for a profit - on XBox Live that is entangled with multiple IP and license holders without even bothering to get the legal stuff hammered out first? Pure lunacy.
Honestly, if this is how Rare does business now, then they deserve their newfound irrelevance.
Really you need to play Viva Pinata and see that the company has not completely lost it's Mojo. Kameo, too, shows promise, especially with the DLC updates inserted. PDZ was just rushed. DKR DS ruled, and I have very high hopes for the rest of their stuff. Especially the stuff that hasn't been on 3 seperate consoles (like Kameo and PDZ, both of which were on GC>Xbox>360. Their only recent game that's actually started and released on the original system intended has ruled so.. y'know. Give them a chance.
Either way, as has been said, Rare ARE working on XBLA titles - they said this after Jetpac, which I think made back it's production costs in under a month or something like that. But if they were gonna do it, why do Goldeneye? Why not do PD? No license issues and it would serve as a reminder that another PD game is coming (which one is) and it's one of MS' key franchises.
I find the idea of this project to be pretty suspect. Why would Rare invest capital in something without first obtaining a dependable legal foundation? It's not as though Nintendo was going to be so impressed by the end result that they'd happily hand over the rights and potential profits for the good of the gaming public. Without having the rights from the very beginning, why would you risk something like that? It doesn't make financial sense.
This.
Some random dude pops up on a forum, claiming that Rare invested resources into something they had no license to use, no contract in place, and no real way to make sure they'll recover even a piece of their investment....and expects everyone to get pissed when Nintendo doesn't just happily say "sure, fuck us and our Virtual Console. I suppose Microsoft needs content too, and we don't like money"? Are we really supposed to take that at face value?
Putting aside the hoax for a moment, the whole situation is somewhat reminicent of the petty squabbling in a divorce. Nintendo and Rare should just put aside the bullshit and say let XBLA get Perfect Dark and VC get, I dunno, Diddy Kong Racing or something, and so forth. Or just let both platforms get each game. But instead we get bullshit.
I find the idea of this project to be pretty suspect. Why would Rare invest capital in something without first obtaining a dependable legal foundation? It's not as though Nintendo was going to be so impressed by the end result that they'd happily hand over the rights and potential profits for the good of the gaming public. Without having the rights from the very beginning, why would you risk something like that? It doesn't make financial sense.
This.
Some random dude pops up on a forum, claiming that Rare invested resources into something they had no license to use, no contract in place, and no real way to make sure they'll recover even a piece of their investment....and expects everyone to get pissed when Nintendo doesn't just happily say "sure, fuck us and our Virtual Console. I suppose Microsoft needs content too, and we don't like money"? Are we really supposed to take that at face value?
Putting aside the hoax for a moment, the whole situation is somewhat reminicent of the petty squabbling in a divorce. Nintendo and Rare should just put aside the bullshit and say let XBLA get Perfect Dark and VC get, I dunno, Diddy Kong Racing or something, and so forth. Or just let both platforms get each game. But instead we get bullshit.
Oh, well.
DKC was recently released on the DS, keep in mind. The system is perfect for N64 ports, and as Microsoft doesn't have a handheld, they really don't have an issue publishing games on it.
You know what I mean, though, I'm sure. It was being deved for Xbox and it was being deved as a primarily multiplayer based game.
Rare took too damn long, admittedly, and MS said move it 360 and get it in the launch window. So they did. So we got an Xbox game with shiny textures with single player that was a piece of ass and a solid-but-buggy multiplayer. The game was good enough to give me faith in a properly produced PD game, though. The multiplayer was a blast, glitchers aside.
Then Rare is, as many have recently assumed, now staffed primarily by slapdicks and retards.
Fun internal tech demo or side project? Sure, go ahead and do it without asking anybody.
Developing something to sell eventually - for a profit - on XBox Live that is entangled with multiple IP and license holders without even bothering to get the legal stuff hammered out first? Pure lunacy.
Honestly, if this is how Rare does business now, then they deserve their newfound irrelevance.
Really you need to play Viva Pinata and see that the company has not completely lost it's Mojo. Kameo, too, shows promise, especially with the DLC updates inserted. PDZ was just rushed. DKR DS ruled, and I have very high hopes for the rest of their stuff. Especially the stuff that hasn't been on 3 seperate consoles (like Kameo and PDZ, both of which were on GC>Xbox>360. Their only recent game that's actually started and released on the original system intended has ruled so.. y'know. Give them a chance.
Wait a tick. I can see why someone could get away with saying that they haven't completely lost it with their GBA/DS titles or the glimmers of good games trapped inside Kameo and VP, but this is nuts. A game in the making for three different systems and around five years was rushed? Come on.
My BS detector went off at "splitsceen even if only you are playing".
because
a) nobody would want to play that way willingly.
b) why the fuck would they be sending the screen states over the internet. Waste of time.
Also
Nintendo owns the engine code. So if they did in fact use the original code in any way, Nintendo could shut them down, and i'm pretty sure MS Legal would have shot that down before it even got started.
MGM or whoever owns Bond. Activision is just a licensee, they have no control over Bond, unless their contract specifically states that, and I doubt it does. The only way they could stop a Goldeneye re-release would be if their contract says they have an exclusive right to publish James Bond games.
also
Perfect Dark was the superior multiplayer experience.
I find the idea of this project to be pretty suspect. Why would Rare invest capital in something without first obtaining a dependable legal foundation? It's not as though Nintendo was going to be so impressed by the end result that they'd happily hand over the rights and potential profits for the good of the gaming public. Without having the rights from the very beginning, why would you risk something like that? It doesn't make financial sense.
This.
Some random dude pops up on a forum, claiming that Rare invested resources into something they had no license to use, no contract in place, and no real way to make sure they'll recover even a piece of their investment....and expects everyone to get pissed when Nintendo doesn't just happily say "sure, fuck us and our Virtual Console. I suppose Microsoft needs content too, and we don't like money"? Are we really supposed to take that at face value?
Putting aside the hoax for a moment, the whole situation is somewhat reminicent of the petty squabbling in a divorce. Nintendo and Rare should just put aside the bullshit and say let XBLA get Perfect Dark and VC get, I dunno, Diddy Kong Racing or something, and so forth. Or just let both platforms get each game. But instead we get bullshit.
Oh, well.
DKC was recently released on the DS, keep in mind. The system is perfect for N64 ports, and as Microsoft doesn't have a handheld, they really don't have an issue publishing games on it.
DKR DS was a hacked-up version missing half the characters because Microsoft didn't want Banjo and company on a Nintendo system while the 360 game was still in the works. The N64 version will never hit the Virtual Console for this reason.
It really sucks when good games get tied up in shit like this. Hell, the same is going on for stuff like System Shock 2. It's just bullshit; it reminds me of how we as a society forever lost a big chunk of Fritz Lang's Metropolis because nobody was allowed to copy it in time.
edit: it means the fucking warez kiddies trading fucking goodsets are responsible for preserving what future generations might well find to be influential early works of gaming as an art form. Think on how sad that is for a moment.
Wait a tick. I can see why someone could get away with saying that they haven't completely lost it with their GBA/DS titles or the glimmers of good games trapped inside Kameo and VP, but this is nuts. A game in the making for three different systems and around five years was rushed? Come on.
See my last post. Rare's just a weird company in that respect. If the game is forced at any point it ends out suffering for it. You could give Rare Duke Nukem Forever after all this time and if they were told to crunch and get it out in the last 6 months it'd suck tons of ass.
I'm a great advocate of Rare in general though and PDZ, which I think was a really solid game and when it comes to multiplayer for a long time it was miles ahead of every other FPS on 360 til Halo 3 came along. Just a shame they never really 'finished' the single player or had a chance to actually upgrade the graphics significantly, as Pinata shows what they CAN do.
There's other things, of course - the art style was a horifically bad mistake, and I hope they'll fix that with the next game (and I imagine the mangled art direction was in part hangover from the game's different art styles in it's 3 incarnations, too), but PDZ was, overall, enjoyable. I liked it. And I honestly believe it can become Microsoft's 2nd big FPS next to Halo (Gears is third person so whatever), and MS seems to think the same as they have invested in getting Greg Rucka to write novels expanding the universe of the game as they did with Halo and stuff.
Then Rare is, as many have recently assumed, now staffed primarily by slapdicks and retards.
Fun internal tech demo or side project? Sure, go ahead and do it without asking anybody.
Developing something to sell eventually - for a profit - on XBox Live that is entangled with multiple IP and license holders without even bothering to get the legal stuff hammered out first? Pure lunacy.
Honestly, if this is how Rare does business now, then they deserve their newfound irrelevance.
Really you need to play Viva Pinata and see that the company has not completely lost it's Mojo. Kameo, too, shows promise, especially with the DLC updates inserted. PDZ was just rushed. DKR DS ruled, and I have very high hopes for the rest of their stuff. Especially the stuff that hasn't been on 3 seperate consoles (like Kameo and PDZ, both of which were on GC>Xbox>360. Their only recent game that's actually started and released on the original system intended has ruled so.. y'know. Give them a chance.
Honestly, I never liked much of anything Rare made beyond Goldeneye, Blast Corps, and to a certain extent the first PD. Most of their popular games bother me with the mindless collecting.
Seriously, Diddy Kong Racing on the 64 - how did collecting crap end up in my kart racer?
I know I'm alone on this one, so I don't begrudge others their Banjo Kazooie. I just know that Rare's design ethic generally doesn't appeal to me, so I avoid them if I can.
EDIT: I'm not counting their NES-era stuff. RC ProAm and Battletoads FTW.
Activision is just a licensee, they have no control over Bond, unless their contract specifically states that, and I doubt it does. The only way they could stop a Goldeneye re-release would be if their contract says they have an exclusive right to publish James Bond games.
Yep that's the deal, it was non-eclusive at first but since this Sept. they've had exclusive rights to develop and publish Bond games.
But thanks plufim - I see I'm not going to achieve anything here. I'll try another approach. Bye everyone.
"Shit, nobody's buying my hoax so I'm gonna take my ball and go home."
he's not the kind of poster that sticks around.
These types will join, make 1 thread for 1 specific purpose, and then post a couple of time (if at all) in their own thread, and then leave forever afterwards.
Not once have I seen a person do something like this, and then stick around.
Honestly, even if this thing were being built and was near completion, it was a total waste of resources from the beginning. You never, ever spend money and resources on something that you do not have a legal right to do so when you are planning on selling the thing (and even if you're not planning on selling the thing you're still walking on ice).
But something developed by professionals working under a company like microsoft should know better. And as a publisher, MS would and should know better.
Those two facts alone cast doubt on the plausibility of this.
Now again, that's not to say that it's completely bullshit and both the developers and MS were retarded in wasting resources on something that would never end up being released.
But that doesn't mean it's Nintendo's fault and solely their fault for it not seeing the light of day.
If anything, it's going to be either MS's 'fault' for not securing the rights to the license or Activision's 'fault' for acquiring exclusive rights to use the IP in development/publishing, or MGM's 'fault' for allowing Activision for having the license. I say 'fault' in quotes because these companies have been going about their business as usual, and it's not really their problem if someone else made something that they didn't have a right to and as a result can't publish it.
I'm not completely certain Nintendo has any right to the code of the game, either. That probably depends on Rare's contracts with them, back when they developed the game.
I forget who it was that suggested a moderator interview: BAD idea. If it is true, then that just puts PA in a position to receive a subpoena... as if IP addresses and stuff don't already do that. Of course, photobucket may get one of those too.
As for why I'm posting at 5:11 in the morning - I'm looking after a baby who won't sleep. And I'm really pissed off about the game.
Yes, Activision are the reason why Nintendo's opinion matters. Legally speaking, Nintendo have no jurisdiction at all here.
So if this was Perfect Dark, Microsoft have all the rights and would just publish the thing, and Nintendo can go stuff themselves. But the Bond license is necessary, so we have a ridiculous situation where a game made by Microsoft (at Rare) gets 'published' by Activision, and released by Microsoft over Live Arcade.
Basically, Activision just get free money out of this. But they won't take it, because depending on who you ask, either they want to stay on good terms with Nintendo, or they're concerned that Nintendo will sue them and the risk isn't worth the expected reward.
And this is why we get into this situation - the game has been developed without Nintendo's blessing, because Nintendo shouldn't have to give their blessing. They have no legal say here.
But Activision decided they wanted to check with them, and now... shit has happened.
This convincing you now? I am quite serious.
No, no, no.
You have the legal issues completely fucking wrong.
Activision doesn't own the James Bond ip. They have the license for it. They get nothing out of a Goldeneye release on the 360. The only ones who are legally capable of giving permission to use the James Bond ip are the IP holders, who are the same ones holding the IP for the movies and everything else -- which is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than a license holder like Activision.
Activision basically paid money to be able to use James Bond. They are not authorized to let another company use it.
If some other company approached the Bond IP holders for a license, Activision would probably try to prevent it, because they probably contracted for the exclusive rights to the IP in their license. The reason is because they paid a great deal of money for the license so that they could be the company to benefit from using James Bond ip. Letting another company use the IP would go against the very merits that Activision bargained for in the original contract in the first place!
Furthermore, of course a publisher wants to stay on good terms with a hardware manufacturer, especially when that manufacturer has the greatest market share.
However, Nintendo cannot sue Activision for greenlighting the use of IP that neither Activision nor Nintendo even own!
So there goes that theory.
This is not solely up to Nintendo.
Stop trying to blame Nintendo for something that is tripped up in a legal mess. If this project is real, it was a waste of time and resources.
Publishers with exclusive rights most certainly can hand off development to whatever team they want... internal or external (contracted). Unsolicited external projects aren't unprecedented, but didn't Zoot Fly's Ghostbusters demonstration prove that to be a waste of time/effort?
I find the idea of this project to be pretty suspect. Why would Rare invest capital in something without first obtaining a dependable legal foundation? It's not as though Nintendo was going to be so impressed by the end result that they'd happily hand over the rights and potential profits for the good of the gaming public. Without having the rights from the very beginning, why would you risk something like that? It doesn't make financial sense.
This.
Some random dude pops up on a forum, claiming that Rare invested resources into something they had no license to use, no contract in place, and no real way to make sure they'll recover even a piece of their investment....and expects everyone to get pissed when Nintendo doesn't just happily say "sure, fuck us and our Virtual Console. I suppose Microsoft needs content too, and we don't like money"? Are we really supposed to take that at face value?
Putting aside the hoax for a moment, the whole situation is somewhat reminicent of the petty squabbling in a divorce. Nintendo and Rare should just put aside the bullshit and say let XBLA get Perfect Dark and VC get, I dunno, Diddy Kong Racing or something, and so forth. Or just let both platforms get each game. But instead we get bullshit.
Oh, well.
DKC was recently released on the DS, keep in mind. The system is perfect for N64 ports, and as Microsoft doesn't have a handheld, they really don't have an issue publishing games on it.
DKR DS was a hacked-up version missing half the characters because Microsoft didn't want Banjo and company on a Nintendo system while the 360 game was still in the works. The N64 version will never hit the Virtual Console for this reason.
It really sucks when good games get tied up in shit like this. Hell, the same is going on for stuff like System Shock 2. It's just bullshit; it reminds me of how we as a society forever lost a big chunk of Fritz Lang's Metropolis because nobody was allowed to copy it in time.
edit: it means the fucking warez kiddies trading fucking goodsets are responsible for preserving what future generations might well find to be influential early works of gaming as an art form. Think on how sad that is for a moment.
I was about to say this too. DKR DS was an abomination and it was evident from the very start. Hmm, powering-up your power ups was a pretty cool idea, and they polished it to perfection in the original. Obtaining a missile would give you the equivalent of Mario Kart's green shell... well, it explodes without ricocheting, so I won't continue that metaphor. Anyway, powering it up would give you a targetting missile (NOT a homing missile) that you would target by holding down fire until the target reticle was locked on to the closest racer and then release. It made sense to just hold down the trigger while racing so that you could release it as soon as a significant target appear (such as someone passing you). If you switched to a new powerup, like a boost, it would activate when released too. On DKR, they turned it into a heat-seeking missile that will seek the player themselves if fired from in first place even when there are opponents being lapped all around you. To make matters worse, it fires when the button is pressed and not when it is released. I have not successfully hit one single racer EVER with this (I just connected my N64 and loaded up DKR).
Did not one single former DKR player playtest this? Wouldn't they easily take first place and attempt to fire a powered-up missle at the first racer being lapped? I find that kind of flaw impossible to miss considering the fact that the former game trains you to do what amounts to suicide in this game. There was no way to even see that the aiming reticle was gone when it fires on a button-down event!
Then Rare is, as many have recently assumed, now staffed primarily by slapdicks and retards.
Fun internal tech demo or side project? Sure, go ahead and do it without asking anybody.
Developing something to sell eventually - for a profit - on XBox Live that is entangled with multiple IP and license holders without even bothering to get the legal stuff hammered out first? Pure lunacy.
Honestly, if this is how Rare does business now, then they deserve their newfound irrelevance.
Really you need to play Viva Pinata and see that the company has not completely lost it's Mojo. Kameo, too, shows promise, especially with the DLC updates inserted. PDZ was just rushed. DKR DS ruled, and I have very high hopes for the rest of their stuff. Especially the stuff that hasn't been on 3 seperate consoles (like Kameo and PDZ, both of which were on GC>Xbox>360. Their only recent game that's actually started and released on the original system intended has ruled so.. y'know. Give them a chance.
Honestly, I never liked much of anything Rare made beyond Goldeneye, Blast Corps, and to a certain extent the first PD. Most of their popular games bother me with the mindless collecting.
Seriously, Diddy Kong Racing on the 64 - how did collecting crap end up in my kart racer?
I know I'm alone on this one, so I don't begrudge others their Banjo Kazooie. I just know that Rare's design ethic generally doesn't appeal to me, so I avoid them if I can.
EDIT: I'm not counting their NES-era stuff. RC ProAm and Battletoads FTW.
DKR was a seriously good game. Other than multiplayer, it was a million times better than Mario Kart 64. The limited multiplayer games it had showed a whole lot of untapped Mario Kart 64 killing potential too.
I didn't say this was an N64 emulator running a Goldeneye ROM. It's the original Goldeneye source code, recompiled and modified to run on 360 (with support added for networking, dual-analog controllers, etc). I'm not a lawyer, but presumably the legal situation between the two is different. At least, I assume it is, since, this is actually what happened.
But thanks plufim - I see I'm not going to achieve anything here. I'll try another approach. Bye everyone.
Um, this is bullshit. Because you can't take the original source code and just recompile it and get it to run on the 360.
Either it's being emulated, or it's been rewritten from scratch.
TheSonicRetard on
0
Options
AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
edited November 2007
So basically this guy made an account here just to bullshit us and try to get our panties in a knot?
Publishers with exclusive rights most certainly can hand off development to whatever team they want... internal or external (contracted). Unsolicited external projects aren't unprecedented, but didn't Zoot Fly's Ghostbusters demonstration prove that to be a waste of time/effort?
In a certain context, yes, but I doubt that is the case here. It also depends heavily on the terms of MS/Activisions contracts as well. (I should note that the situation you are implying would be Rare developing under Activision. Then we'd probably have to worry about MS's contract with Rare ) [wrt activ->ms/rare, they can hand off development, but they cannot hand off the entire license altogether; I should have said instead of 'another company use it' it would be 'another company have it' as the OP was saying ]
And yes, unsolicited external projects have occurred. But mostly they go to 'proof of concepts' and nothing more; which are hardly more than mere demos, and a far cry from something that is brinking on the edge of completion like the OP implies.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited November 2007
Just FYI, the screenshot he posted, I believe, is Felicity, on Perfect Dark, possibly with the soldiers photoshopped in from an original Goldeneye game. Would explain why the backgrounds look better and different from Goldeneye, but the enemy models don't.
The enemy models look similar except their textures are higher-resolution.
I will say that there have been many attempts at recreating Goldeneye in just about every mod-able FPS since like Quake 2, though, so models and other GE-like assets are probably everywhere. GE Source was just the first one that came to mind.
I think the most hilarious part of this hoax is the thought that any developer would be stupid enough to do something like this after the legal shitstorm that was Tetris. That was like an object lesson in how NOT to handle an IP. So, yeah, Fakey McHoaxerson, if Rare actually was retarded enough to do this, then they deserve all the hell they get. Which won't even happen, of course, due to you being full of shit.
Posts
Actually, you just convinced me that you're full of shit.
Rare doesn't have the right to put any of their N64 stuff on XBLA without Nintendo's permission, even the stuff that isn't entangled with the James Bond license, without fully rewriting the game code (non-code assets could of course be preserved). Hucking a ROM image of, say, Perfect Dark, or Banjo-Kazooie up there wrapped in an N64 emulator would infringe on Nintendo's IP in the various N64 development libraries that Rare (and every other developer) used.
So, again, you fail. Good day, sir.
And seriously, how could nintendo not have a say? They published the damn game. Of course they have a stake in this.
If this is seriously true, then the fuckup is Rare's fault. They should have gauged nintendo's response before investing time and resources into a project almost anyone could tell you would NOT have nintendo's blessing.
Nintendo is never giving up the publishing/IP rights just so a rival console maker can put the game on their system. Especially when Nintendo has their own download service. Can you imagine the press release from Microsoft if they landed the game? Goldeneye is a staple of the N64 library, no way no how they sign off on it. It would seem more likely for Nintendo to acquire permission from Rare, seeing as they've managed to put DKC on the VC. I realize they're different situations but there's precedent. And I'm sure Activision would be happy to take money in either case.
Anyway Reggie said they were working on it. I find it much more likely that a Nintendo published game will appear on a Nintendo service than a Nintendo game on XBLA, and Rare has to know that. They wouldn't waste time updating the game for release, unless they just did it for themselves in-house.
Okay this, this is wrong. I don't know much about the situation, but if you for an instant think Nintendo would simply let the full rights to a game they published slip away when Rare was sold you are sadly mistaken. Rare got to keep their IPs - Banjo, Perfect Dark, Conker, but not the games. Nintendo published them, they've got some kind of stakes in the games that appeared on their consoles.
It was a greta game for its time, but I have better FPSes to be playing right now.
What they should have offered Nintendo is a simultanious release with an original version available on the Wii console, and an HD version (with NO option to switch graphics) available on the 360.
Especially considering what I know about the Rare breakup with Nintendo and Microsoft's eventual purchase.
No, no, no.
You have the legal issues completely fucking wrong.
Activision doesn't own the James Bond ip. They have the license for it. They get nothing out of a Goldeneye release on the 360. The only ones who are legally capable of giving permission to use the James Bond ip are the IP holders, who are the same ones holding the IP for the movies and everything else -- which is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than a license holder like Activision.
Activision basically paid money to be able to use James Bond. They are not authorized to let another company use it.
If some other company approached the Bond IP holders for a license, Activision would probably try to prevent it, because they probably contracted for the exclusive rights to the IP in their license. The reason is because they paid a great deal of money for the license so that they could be the company to benefit from using James Bond ip. Letting another company use the IP would go against the very merits that Activision bargained for in the original contract in the first place!
Furthermore, of course a publisher wants to stay on good terms with a hardware manufacturer, especially when that manufacturer has the greatest market share.
However, Nintendo cannot sue Activision for greenlighting the use of IP that neither Activision nor Nintendo even own!
So there goes that theory.
This is not solely up to Nintendo.
Stop trying to blame Nintendo for something that is tripped up in a legal mess. If this project is real, it was a waste of time and resources.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
I thought he would have had his research done for this.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Some random dude pops up on a forum, claiming that Rare invested resources into something they had no license to use, no contract in place, and no real way to make sure they'll recover even a piece of their investment....and expects everyone to get pissed when Nintendo doesn't just happily say "sure, fuck us and our Virtual Console. I suppose Microsoft needs content too, and we don't like money"? Are we really supposed to take that at face value?
Fun internal tech demo or side project? Sure, go ahead and do it without asking anybody.
Developing something to sell eventually - for a profit - on XBox Live that is entangled with multiple IP and license holders without even bothering to get the legal stuff hammered out first? Pure lunacy.
Honestly, if this is how Rare does business now, then they deserve their newfound irrelevance.
But thanks plufim - I see I'm not going to achieve anything here. I'll try another approach. Bye everyone.
Really you need to play Viva Pinata and see that the company has not completely lost it's Mojo. Kameo, too, shows promise, especially with the DLC updates inserted. PDZ was just rushed. DKR DS ruled, and I have very high hopes for the rest of their stuff. Especially the stuff that hasn't been on 3 seperate consoles (like Kameo and PDZ, both of which were on GC>Xbox>360. Their only recent game that's actually started and released on the original system intended has ruled so.. y'know. Give them a chance.
Either way, as has been said, Rare ARE working on XBLA titles - they said this after Jetpac, which I think made back it's production costs in under a month or something like that. But if they were gonna do it, why do Goldeneye? Why not do PD? No license issues and it would serve as a reminder that another PD game is coming (which one is) and it's one of MS' key franchises.
XBL/PSN/Steam: APZonerunner
Putting aside the hoax for a moment, the whole situation is somewhat reminicent of the petty squabbling in a divorce. Nintendo and Rare should just put aside the bullshit and say let XBLA get Perfect Dark and VC get, I dunno, Diddy Kong Racing or something, and so forth. Or just let both platforms get each game. But instead we get bullshit.
Oh, well.
This thread was just a joke before.
But his legal fuckup-ery has actually gotten me somewhat annoyed.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
PDZ was rushed?!
DKC was recently released on the DS, keep in mind. The system is perfect for N64 ports, and as Microsoft doesn't have a handheld, they really don't have an issue publishing games on it.
You know what I mean, though, I'm sure. It was being deved for Xbox and it was being deved as a primarily multiplayer based game.
Rare took too damn long, admittedly, and MS said move it 360 and get it in the launch window. So they did. So we got an Xbox game with shiny textures with single player that was a piece of ass and a solid-but-buggy multiplayer. The game was good enough to give me faith in a properly produced PD game, though. The multiplayer was a blast, glitchers aside.
XBL/PSN/Steam: APZonerunner
Wait a tick. I can see why someone could get away with saying that they haven't completely lost it with their GBA/DS titles or the glimmers of good games trapped inside Kameo and VP, but this is nuts. A game in the making for three different systems and around five years was rushed? Come on.
because
a) nobody would want to play that way willingly.
b) why the fuck would they be sending the screen states over the internet. Waste of time.
Also
Nintendo owns the engine code. So if they did in fact use the original code in any way, Nintendo could shut them down, and i'm pretty sure MS Legal would have shot that down before it even got started.
MGM or whoever owns Bond. Activision is just a licensee, they have no control over Bond, unless their contract specifically states that, and I doubt it does. The only way they could stop a Goldeneye re-release would be if their contract says they have an exclusive right to publish James Bond games.
also
Perfect Dark was the superior multiplayer experience.
Really?
You mean completely making up all of your own legal ideas out of thin air isn't a good way to come to a conclusion?
You're not a lawyer?
WOW I AM SO SURPRISED
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
DKR DS was a hacked-up version missing half the characters because Microsoft didn't want Banjo and company on a Nintendo system while the 360 game was still in the works. The N64 version will never hit the Virtual Console for this reason.
It really sucks when good games get tied up in shit like this. Hell, the same is going on for stuff like System Shock 2. It's just bullshit; it reminds me of how we as a society forever lost a big chunk of Fritz Lang's Metropolis because nobody was allowed to copy it in time.
edit: it means the fucking warez kiddies trading fucking goodsets are responsible for preserving what future generations might well find to be influential early works of gaming as an art form. Think on how sad that is for a moment.
See my last post. Rare's just a weird company in that respect. If the game is forced at any point it ends out suffering for it. You could give Rare Duke Nukem Forever after all this time and if they were told to crunch and get it out in the last 6 months it'd suck tons of ass.
I'm a great advocate of Rare in general though and PDZ, which I think was a really solid game and when it comes to multiplayer for a long time it was miles ahead of every other FPS on 360 til Halo 3 came along. Just a shame they never really 'finished' the single player or had a chance to actually upgrade the graphics significantly, as Pinata shows what they CAN do.
There's other things, of course - the art style was a horifically bad mistake, and I hope they'll fix that with the next game (and I imagine the mangled art direction was in part hangover from the game's different art styles in it's 3 incarnations, too), but PDZ was, overall, enjoyable. I liked it. And I honestly believe it can become Microsoft's 2nd big FPS next to Halo (Gears is third person so whatever), and MS seems to think the same as they have invested in getting Greg Rucka to write novels expanding the universe of the game as they did with Halo and stuff.
XBL/PSN/Steam: APZonerunner
Honestly, I never liked much of anything Rare made beyond Goldeneye, Blast Corps, and to a certain extent the first PD. Most of their popular games bother me with the mindless collecting.
Seriously, Diddy Kong Racing on the 64 - how did collecting crap end up in my kart racer?
I know I'm alone on this one, so I don't begrudge others their Banjo Kazooie. I just know that Rare's design ethic generally doesn't appeal to me, so I avoid them if I can.
EDIT: I'm not counting their NES-era stuff. RC ProAm and Battletoads FTW.
XBL/PSN/Steam: APZonerunner
he's not the kind of poster that sticks around.
These types will join, make 1 thread for 1 specific purpose, and then post a couple of time (if at all) in their own thread, and then leave forever afterwards.
Not once have I seen a person do something like this, and then stick around.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
But something developed by professionals working under a company like microsoft should know better. And as a publisher, MS would and should know better.
Those two facts alone cast doubt on the plausibility of this.
Now again, that's not to say that it's completely bullshit and both the developers and MS were retarded in wasting resources on something that would never end up being released.
But that doesn't mean it's Nintendo's fault and solely their fault for it not seeing the light of day.
If anything, it's going to be either MS's 'fault' for not securing the rights to the license or Activision's 'fault' for acquiring exclusive rights to use the IP in development/publishing, or MGM's 'fault' for allowing Activision for having the license. I say 'fault' in quotes because these companies have been going about their business as usual, and it's not really their problem if someone else made something that they didn't have a right to and as a result can't publish it.
I'm not completely certain Nintendo has any right to the code of the game, either. That probably depends on Rare's contracts with them, back when they developed the game.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Publishers with exclusive rights most certainly can hand off development to whatever team they want... internal or external (contracted). Unsolicited external projects aren't unprecedented, but didn't Zoot Fly's Ghostbusters demonstration prove that to be a waste of time/effort?
I was about to say this too. DKR DS was an abomination and it was evident from the very start. Hmm, powering-up your power ups was a pretty cool idea, and they polished it to perfection in the original. Obtaining a missile would give you the equivalent of Mario Kart's green shell... well, it explodes without ricocheting, so I won't continue that metaphor. Anyway, powering it up would give you a targetting missile (NOT a homing missile) that you would target by holding down fire until the target reticle was locked on to the closest racer and then release. It made sense to just hold down the trigger while racing so that you could release it as soon as a significant target appear (such as someone passing you). If you switched to a new powerup, like a boost, it would activate when released too. On DKR, they turned it into a heat-seeking missile that will seek the player themselves if fired from in first place even when there are opponents being lapped all around you. To make matters worse, it fires when the button is pressed and not when it is released. I have not successfully hit one single racer EVER with this (I just connected my N64 and loaded up DKR).
Did not one single former DKR player playtest this? Wouldn't they easily take first place and attempt to fire a powered-up missle at the first racer being lapped? I find that kind of flaw impossible to miss considering the fact that the former game trains you to do what amounts to suicide in this game. There was no way to even see that the aiming reticle was gone when it fires on a button-down event!
DKR was a seriously good game. Other than multiplayer, it was a million times better than Mario Kart 64. The limited multiplayer games it had showed a whole lot of untapped Mario Kart 64 killing potential too.
Um, this is bullshit. Because you can't take the original source code and just recompile it and get it to run on the 360.
Either it's being emulated, or it's been rewritten from scratch.
In a certain context, yes, but I doubt that is the case here. It also depends heavily on the terms of MS/Activisions contracts as well. (I should note that the situation you are implying would be Rare developing under Activision. Then we'd probably have to worry about MS's contract with Rare ) [wrt activ->ms/rare, they can hand off development, but they cannot hand off the entire license altogether; I should have said instead of 'another company use it' it would be 'another company have it' as the OP was saying ]
And yes, unsolicited external projects have occurred. But mostly they go to 'proof of concepts' and nothing more; which are hardly more than mere demos, and a far cry from something that is brinking on the edge of completion like the OP implies.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
I will say that there have been many attempts at recreating Goldeneye in just about every mod-able FPS since like Quake 2, though, so models and other GE-like assets are probably everywhere. GE Source was just the first one that came to mind.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Hay guyz! Did ja here tat they are makin Psychonauts 2!!!
Supposibly this is der main character.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/Tikara/HAYITISDARTHIDART83.jpg
Only took about 20 mins to do, too.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games