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  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    Real talk I ran into a friend at the climbing gym who's a professor of women's studies and we talked about the revolution between climbs

    and last night I dreamt that SiG and Elizabeth Warren won the presidency and I was following them around an event as a personal assistant.

    It was pretty weird, in retrospect.

    I had a dream last night that I asked two different girls (neither of which I have seen in 15+ years) to my high school prom and completely stood up one of them and took the other.

    Also our prom had prison guards working security.

    Also there was time travel.

    That wasn't a dream.

    Like I could get two dates to prom...

    are YOU on the beer list?
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited February 2017
    there's a culture book where a guy sent a full copy of his consciousness to send a message and he gives it to the culture and they're like "uh so... what do we do with you? you want a body or should we put you in space world of warcraft xxl or what?" and he's like "nah delete me, I don't want lots of mes out and about"

    that wouldn't be me, every time I use a transporter there's just going to be an extra me

    override367 on
  • OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Oh I also read some Hebrew and Jew and Israeli subreddits that y'all might not find lit 3_3

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    The three nights before tonight I took some nyquil and had three different nightmares involving my wife.

    I told her yesterday that if she doesn't stop Freddy Krugering me I'm going to divorce her.

    My ex wife was given Lunesta.

    The first night she was half awake and half asleep and talking about seeing "shadow people on the wall"/

    The second night she took it early (I didn't know) and ended up going to the commissary and buying $200 worth of cleaning supplies while she was asleep.

  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Neco wrote: »
    I have switched to injections but I have no idea what I am doing and I dot want to have to go to the doctor to learn how

    I feel like you should ask the doctor!

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    Real talk I ran into a friend at the climbing gym who's a professor of women's studies and we talked about the revolution between climbs

    and last night I dreamt that SiG and Elizabeth Warren won the presidency and I was following them around an event as a personal assistant.

    It was pretty weird, in retrospect.

    I had a dream last night that I asked two different girls (neither of which I have seen in 15+ years) to my high school prom and completely stood up one of them and took the other.

    Also our prom had prison guards working security.

    Also there was time travel.

    That wasn't a dream.

    Like I could get two dates to prom...

    you could if you were a time traveler

  • Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    do browsers let you search tab names? i guess there's probably a function to view them as lists so you don't have to guess vaguely by tile and the first or second character you might see. i'm just thinking the search/navigation functionality on a bookmark might be better than a tab but i've never tried fucking with enough tabs to need to figure out a good way to run between them

    It takes practice, I guess. The number of tabs I used grew gradually. These days I just go by the favicon and relative positioning and don't really have an issue. I know where everything is, at least the tabs that I use frequently.

    Do you think it's fair to say that you have a good handle on it despite it being a worse system?

    Yeah, it's definitely a better system for me now because I'm used to it. I wouldn't recommend it to people who didn't slowly end up this way.

    It's not quite as much worse as you think, though. Additional advantages are that I can check a webpage with static information without having to load it, and also it's arguably easier to get rid of tabs than to delete bookmarks, although granted I've never looked into bookmark management besides the default in Chrome, so maybe I'm wrong about that.

    Even given all that, plus the reminder thing I mentioned in my previous post, I'm still comfortable saying it's a worse system in an objective sense. It works really well for me, though.

    vRyue2p.png
  • TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    Chomsky in 2010

    oesqtldrlkwx.jpg

  • NecoNeco Worthless Garbage Registered User regular
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Neco wrote: »
    I have switched to injections but I have no idea what I am doing and I dot want to have to go to the doctor to learn how

    I feel like you should ask the doctor!

    I know thats even what they told me to do!

    But...thats so much work and I still have to yell at my insurance first and

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I had a dream the other night in which my son was killed by aliens. So of course when I woke up I immediately had to check on him because dream logic.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • wanderingwandering Russia state-affiliated media Registered User regular
    Nixon was charismatic??

  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    neither honest nor charismatic, otherwise correct

    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    neco if you need someone to stab you with needles on the regs i know a guy

    Please consider the environment before printing this post.
  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    I had a dream the other night in which my son was killed by aliens. So of course when I woke up I immediately had to check on him because dream logic.

    Also you killed a bunch of aliens.

    are YOU on the beer list?
  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    Neco they're going to switch me to injections if my labwork drawn yesterday isn't up to snuff


    I can help instruct you on IM injections if you like

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    wandering wrote: »
    Nixon was charismatic??

    to some people

    I mean there are like 60 million americans that find Trump charismatic

  • skippydumptruckskippydumptruck begin again Registered User regular
    TODAY IS SARAH COME HOME DAY

    I SURVIVED

  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    I had a dream the other night in which my son was killed by aliens. So of course when I woke up I immediately had to check on him because dream logic.

    how many times have you put your finger under his nose to see if he's still breathing

    Please consider the environment before printing this post.
  • TavTav Irish Minister for DefenceRegistered User regular
    r/standup has been getting a lot of new account trolls recently

    lotta open micers annoyed they can't drop nbombs, it seems

  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    Real talk I ran into a friend at the climbing gym who's a professor of women's studies and we talked about the revolution between climbs

    and last night I dreamt that SiG and Elizabeth Warren won the presidency and I was following them around an event as a personal assistant.

    It was pretty weird, in retrospect.

    I had a dream last night that I asked two different girls (neither of which I have seen in 15+ years) to my high school prom and completely stood up one of them and took the other.

    Also our prom had prison guards working security.

    Also there was time travel.

    That wasn't a dream.

    Like I could get two dates to prom...

    you could if you were a time traveler

    Just tell everyone you're actually triplets when you bring you from two days ago and you from three days ago with you to prom.

    nibXTE7.png
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    Nixon had a really low charisma score but he scored really well on persuasion rolls regardless

  • cptruggedcptrugged I think it has something to do with free will. Registered User regular
    a
    Preacher wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    Real talk I ran into a friend at the climbing gym who's a professor of women's studies and we talked about the revolution between climbs

    and last night I dreamt that SiG and Elizabeth Warren won the presidency and I was following them around an event as a personal assistant.

    It was pretty weird, in retrospect.

    I had a dream last night that I asked two different girls (neither of which I have seen in 15+ years) to my high school prom and completely stood up one of them and took the other.

    Also our prom had prison guards working security.

    Also there was time travel.

    That wasn't a dream.

    Like I could get two dates to prom...

    Bah, just go with no one.

    And then have 3 girls get in your picture with you while their own dates look on in jealousy.

    /I really need to find that picture

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    I had a dream the other night in which my son was killed by aliens. So of course when I woke up I immediately had to check on him because dream logic.

    how many times have you put your finger under his nose to see if he's still breathing

    Thankfully he's a loud breather. But like last night he went to bed super early (like got him home from daycare and he fell asleep on me at 5:30) and stayed asleep all night, I got up at 3am just to check on him and I was about to do the finger then when he like sleep sighed, he knew, he knew.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    Tav wrote: »
    r/standup has been getting a lot of new account trolls recently

    lotta open micers annoyed they can't drop nbombs, it seems

    Is this ripples from the thing with that guy that ran the open mic do you think? Or is he only really big in Ireland?

    vRyue2p.png
  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I had a dream the other night in which my son was killed by aliens. So of course when I woke up I immediately had to check on him because dream logic.

    how many times have you put your finger under his nose to see if he's still breathing

    Thankfully he's a loud breather. But like last night he went to bed super early (like got him home from daycare and he fell asleep on me at 5:30) and stayed asleep all night, I got up at 3am just to check on him and I was about to do the finger then when he like sleep sighed, he knew, he knew.

    He probably just didn't want to smell your taint ridden finger at 3 AM

    are YOU on the beer list?
  • skippydumptruckskippydumptruck begin again Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    I had a dream the other night in which my son was killed by aliens. So of course when I woke up I immediately had to check on him because dream logic.

    how many times have you put your finger under his nose to see if he's still breathing

    >_>

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I had a dream the other night in which my son was killed by aliens. So of course when I woke up I immediately had to check on him because dream logic.

    how many times have you put your finger under his nose to see if he's still breathing

    Thankfully he's a loud breather. But like last night he went to bed super early (like got him home from daycare and he fell asleep on me at 5:30) and stayed asleep all night, I got up at 3am just to check on him and I was about to do the finger then when he like sleep sighed, he knew, he knew.

    He probably just didn't want to smell your taint ridden finger at 3 AM

    He's got nothing on how often I've smelled the destruction he unleashes.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    If my dreams are actually just visions into parallel universes while I sleep then in different universes:

    -There is an indoor amusement park thing like a chuck-e-cheese with animatronic dinosaurs that have come to live and are murdering children. (I remember seeing kids run into a room with windows while I was looking in waiting for them to finish and then one dropped through the ceiling behind them and tore into a kid.)

    -I am a milkman running towards an elevator door to avoid being caught by someone in a trench coat following closely behind me but I drop the milk bottles and am probably murdered as that's when I usually wake up

    -There is a T-Rex stomping around mississippi terrorizing residential neighborhoods (while I crouch in terror in a house getting the roof torn off of it)

    -There is an otherworldly mall with patrons that seem to slowly disappear until it is very lonely in the mall and there are things hunting me that I never see.

    And probably others I have written down somewhere. I have nightmares and then they reoccur and then they haunt my ass for weeks at a time. I have lost sleep due to being worried about falling asleep due to nightmares.

  • TavTav Irish Minister for DefenceRegistered User regular
    Tav wrote: »
    r/standup has been getting a lot of new account trolls recently

    lotta open micers annoyed they can't drop nbombs, it seems

    Is this ripples from the thing with that guy that ran the open mic do you think? Or is he only really big in Ireland?

    oh he's only a thing in ireland

    but there's people the whole world over annoyed they can't say some things

  • NecoNeco Worthless Garbage Registered User regular
    TODAY IS SARAH COME HOME DAY

    I SURVIVED

    But skippy

    ...did you?

    I think its time for you to read that tombstone over there...

  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    Neco wrote: »
    TODAY IS SARAH COME HOME DAY

    I SURVIVED

    But skippy

    ...did you?

    I think its time for you to read that tombstone over there...

    "thats weird it just says JET FUEL CANT MELT STEAL BEAMS"

  • Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    Tav wrote: »
    Tav wrote: »
    r/standup has been getting a lot of new account trolls recently

    lotta open micers annoyed they can't drop nbombs, it seems

    Is this ripples from the thing with that guy that ran the open mic do you think? Or is he only really big in Ireland?

    oh he's only a thing in ireland

    but there's people the whole world over annoyed they can't say some things

    Oh sure, just wondering if there was a catalyst for a bunch of them joining r/standup recently.

    Although if "recently" goes back as far as, say, January 20th, maybe I can take a guess at a catalyst.

    vRyue2p.png
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    What was kind of funny about him going to sleep early last night was we were going to do our taxes at 7pm, he normally goes to bed around 8 so I figured it would work out. And then he fell asleep immediately upon getting home. BABIES!

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    I'm at home. I teach class in 7 hours. I haven't graded their homework, but I have finished and uploaded today's lecture.

    I need to also do the dishes and clean the catbox

    but I just want to play For Honor....and it's right there....

  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    If my dreams are actually just visions into parallel universes while I sleep then in different universes:

    -There is an indoor amusement park thing like a chuck-e-cheese with animatronic dinosaurs that have come to live and are murdering children. (I remember seeing kids run into a room with windows while I was looking in waiting for them to finish and then one dropped through the ceiling behind them and tore into a kid.)

    -I am a milkman running towards an elevator door to avoid being caught by someone in a trench coat following closely behind me but I drop the milk bottles and am probably murdered as that's when I usually wake up

    -There is a T-Rex stomping around mississippi terrorizing residential neighborhoods (while I crouch in terror in a house getting the roof torn off of it)

    -There is an otherworldly mall with patrons that seem to slowly disappear until it is very lonely in the mall and there are things hunting me that I never see.

    And probably others I have written down somewhere. I have nightmares and then they reoccur and then they haunt my ass for weeks at a time. I have lost sleep due to being worried about falling asleep due to nightmares.

    My biggest recurring dream was always Michael Meyers. He'd chase me in that fucking captain kirk mask all over town and back.

    When the movies started getting shitty though I stopped being scared of him.

    are YOU on the beer list?
  • cptruggedcptrugged I think it has something to do with free will. Registered User regular
    Re watched the 80s Dune on Tuesday night.

    Goddamn I love that movie. I have waay too much of it memorized.

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Arch wrote: »
    I'm at home. I teach class in 7 hours. I haven't graded their homework, but I have finished and uploaded today's lecture.

    I need to also do the dishes and clean the catbox

    but I just want to play For Honor....and it's right there....

    tell them your termites ate their papers

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    Heh someone is playing the Final Countdown this morning. I am annoyed and singing along at the same time.

  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    It seems trivial to me that we exist only as molecules in motion, rather than static arrangements, and that as molecules are replaceable by identical ones, all essential things cannot be due to the identity of individual particles. Thus, the person that exists from t1 to t2 is fundamentally different from the person who exists from t2 to t3, and that relationship would be the same whether nothing happened at t2 or the person were suddenly switched three feet to the right, but otherwise identical.

    Therefore get over it and teleport everywhere :P

    This makes a lot of assumptions about identity re: particles

    Also particles are never identical as one of their properties is always necessarily different, i.e. their locations in space!

    Assumptions which are true, and can be shown by destructive and constructive interference, iirc?

    I recall reading a blog post by an angry quantum guy who wanted to yell at philosophers over this very thing :P

    But in any case there is no such thing as absolute position, so all that matters is relative position...

    the real issue is that we don't understand consciousness or even qualitative experience enough to make assumptions about duplicating or destroying brains. i wouldn't step into that thing.

    Hmm

    I am torn, because on the one hand, I want to go "ok, fair"

    On the other hand I approach 100% certain that everything we experience is somewhere in the brain, in the form of various processes that only are affected by relative positions and forces that are constantly shifting and would not be affected by such a thing.

    (I am legitimately surprised that you would not step into a teleporter, actually.)

    to clarify, i'm talking about the one that destroys the original and makes a copy

    i am troubled by e.g. a thought experiment in which the machine simply creates a copy without destroying the original; obviously this would not transfer or disrupt my consciousness in any way so copies are not "me" and would not "transfer" my consciousness

    i rather think that such duplication may actually be completely physically impossible, though

    I'm only troubled by that insofar as there are limited resources (such as.. Querry...) that one me is going to be heartbroken to lose :P

    I see your point; I think, however, that my objection is to what you are treating as axiomatic - that there is one "you" and that consciousness is a thing that is transferred independently of the continuing motion and interaction of particles, which I think silently lies under everything here. If you accept that consciousnesses require constant interactions, and that you are not the same person as ten years ago because the interactions are different*, then it follows pretty easily that identity is constantly shifting as its components move around, and that that is the only thing we really need bee concerned with

    *this might be hard for some to swallow, but I don't think you can actually meaningfully say that you are without relying on non-physicalist stuff

    Unrelatedly, grading is hard.

    The whole difficulty of consciousness is exactly that: we experience it as singular and continuous even though it is presumably ever-changing.

    Nonetheless, it is axiomatic that my consciousness is distinct from that of other individuals. As a result, if you copy me exactly and produce a clone, it is not me, necessarily. It's not as though I will experience a consciousness of two experiences, as there is no soul being divided between them. I (as in, that self which perceives a continuous conscious experience) will continue to be conscious as my original. I don't see how this would be altered by destroying the original, or how that scenario would be different from destroying the original while making no copy.

    Basically, it seems that consciousness necessarily requires a kind of continuity, and that continuity does exist. If that continuity does not exist then consciousness does not exist in a meaningful way, I think.

    Right - I'm saying that this is constantly happening every moment. In the case of cloning, you both will have the perception of continuity. You could argue that it doesn't exist in one case, and is only a perception... but I think that equally applies to the non-cloned case, and our treatment of them as different cases is a mental kludge to make things easier. The me of yesterday had different knowledge, different feelings, would react to situations (slightly) differently based on a host of things... and for a while, this meat bag was unconscious! I'm not sure why I should think that I'm the same person of yesterday, and if I do, I'm not sure why, in a case where I was killed and rebuilt at the end of sleep as though I'd slept, I should think that it's any different.

    I think this is an easier, clearer case, but I also think that it applies moment to moment as our memories, emotions, and thoughts change. Reducing the time on that to zero changes nothing, we are still beings that exist only through change. Given that, the particular structure and changes are all that matters.

    I actually do have a weird gut feeling about this, I just think that gut feeling is wrong.

    (incidentally, I don't think that continuity exists. I think during sleep the body is basically someone else - it's so different, how could it be me? I wake up with the hallucinations of a different being, who's affected deeply by me, in my mind.)

    I'm certainly not arguing that the clone's continuity doesn't exist. To the clone, he is me. If both continued to exist, I wouldn't even say that the original would have a better claim to the identity. It would be a bureaucratic nightmare. Your consciousness, arguably, has essentially branched, because both individuals have that sense of continuity.

    But the two individuals are separate people, axiomatically, by their very existence. Here's another thought experiment: you are cloned, and then you wait an hour, and then you are shot in the head. Is this worse than destroying the original immediately upon duplication? Must we achieve a perfect, impossible, simultaneous duplication+destruction to preserve that continuity? How would it, in fact, be different for you than being shot in the head without having been duplicated at all?

    Hmmm

    I think I would say that duplication and immediate destruction of the original is sort of how life constantly works, so doing that is probably the same as allowing time to pass, which I don't think we do just because we can't not.

    I think the last bit of your question is what I was getting at with my poorly formed question earlier:
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Hmm EM I am actually curious:

    Can you define what it would mean for, in the case of this transporter thing, your consciousness to cease and someone else's to be there? Especially in a way that's distinguishable from sleep and whatnot?

    I just realized that I don't even think I can do that.

    I'm not sure what you're asking (which someone else, where is "there", etc.)?

    You seem to be concerned with your consciousness disappearing, if I'm reading you correctly. My question then is: what does it actually mean for this to happen, in a way that it's broken by a transporter? What actual phenomenon is occurring that you object to? I formed it incorrectly because I temporarily forgot we're 90% on the same side philosophically and I'm used to talking about this with people who consider the clone to be a different person somehow.

    I am asking, in the case of a simultaneous dissolution of you and reconstruction of an identical you elsewhere, what it is you feel is lost that is not lost every moment of every day, when the exact structure and interactions that are you break down by virtue of changing into a new structure and set of interactions.

    It is sort of a Ship of Theseus problem, except that the ship in question is not a totally abstract notion of thingness projected arbitrarily onto a collection of matter.

    Really, this strikes to the heart of it: in all other areas, human perception of things, of beings, as such is arbitrary and abstract. When we ask about the Ship of Theseus, we are not asking "what are the physical properties of the molecules in question that dictate whether it is the same ship," we are asking "what are the boundaries and specifics of the arbitrary ideas we use to label and define entities?"

    But consciousness is inherently different--or seems to be. We experience it (or rather live it through experiencing) as an entity in itself, one whose boundaries are defined by our perceptions; it is the only non-arbitrary entity we can define. That's the cogito, really. The self is a thing.

    And people have argued against the cogito pretty convincingly, and suggested as you have (and as i agree) that no, it isn't nearly a thing in the traditional sense. It's a disparate collection of processes and structures and it can be interrupted and altered and split and transformed, and all that is certainly true of "the self," which may be separate from consciousness, which is simply the capacity of experiencing selfhood.

    But there is still a fundamental difference there--the very illusion of self or consciousness or will or awareness is fundamentally different from its absence. So it can't be treated as functioning in the same way as other processes, necessarily.

    All this to say, messily, that the difference is kind of obvious: "structures and interactions that change from moment to moment in a given superstructure" is different from "a new set of identical structures and interactions assembled from other superstructures." We can recognize it as different already, as we are having this discussion. What aspect of that difference might be important? I don't know. Does spatial location matter, maybe? If consciousness is inherently related to time and experience of time, might it also be inherently related to space? Is that question even coherent? Do distinct but identical particles have distinct identities in some relevant way? Obviously identical particles are, nonetheless, different, as they are distinct from each other and do not occupy the same space and there's, like, more than one.

    All of this is bullshit, but we cannot yet even conceive of how qualitative experience exists. If we are to explain how consciousness/subjectivity can exist, we are going to need to connect quantitative description to qualitative experience, and that might require a... post-quantitative physics, or something. It might require a paradigm shift, like uniting special relativity and quantum and etc.

    I don't think that our current understanding of physical reality is sufficient to explain or understand consciousness, and I am uncomfortable at relying wholly on that understanding of reality when making decisions that would impact the continued existence of a consciousness.

  • Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    Neco wrote: »
    TODAY IS SARAH COME HOME DAY

    I SURVIVED

    But skippy

    ...did you?

    I think its time for you to read that tombstone over there...

    "Oh okay, I don't see why this is a big deal..."
    vRXov4M.jpg

    "...you monster."

    vRyue2p.png
This discussion has been closed.