Shade's constructs don't do magic damage, by the way. They are magically solid. They do not actually cause damage magically. Only as a result of the magic animating them.
They would not harm Superman any more than whatever else construct of their strength.
But if it was canon, that would explain why she was able to use it. Illustrating a point.
And Shade's shadows come from Hell. They aren't just magically hardened shadows, even if they can have all the properties of a conventional shadow. The shadows are themselves magic.
And Hell isn't known for it's magical hardening abilities. The point is to hurt people, so the magic is malevolent like hellfire and not just a thing that makes hammers ultra-resilient.
They're not hell's shadows they're Shade's shadows. They do not actualy do any direct magical damage.
They originate from Shadowlands which are, according to that bit about Swamp Thing I found last time we went over this, Hell for all intents and purposes.
Shade gained his powers from some kind of traumatic arcane ritual, remember? These powers and the things that manifest from them are alien to his body (unless he's lost every remnant of his original human form), and not mortal in nature. They're pure magic.
They're not animated shadow. If they were, Shade's powers would fluctuate with the introduction and removal of light sources. Instead, they're something Shade summons from the Shadowlands that look like mundane shadows but share none of their properties.
And the shadows aren't just solid constructs, clearly, since they can teleport people and have granted Shade immortality. They also seem to do more in certain forms than their forms would allow. They're magical.
Yes, that is one of the things you should probably ignore because it was both retarded and written by Chris Claremont and John Byrne or whoever.
Seriously.
Everything about that storyline was pure ass.
Shade's constructs are animated shadow. He can create shadows, and animate them. Or pull creatures made from shadow from the Shadwlands, I'm not sue how his powers work exactly.
Just because they can teleport and grant Shade immortality doesn't mean that they do magic damage. They teleport people by enveloping them and transporting them through the Shadowlands.
They're certainly tough enough to cause the other contestants trouble. Thor and Wonder Woman AND Superman.
It's just that they don't do any magical damage. They're just really, really tough and strong, magically. There's a difference.
EDIT: That is totally not the same thing, though.
Helfore is meant to burn people's souls and shit. Magical swords are enchanted to cut through shit.
Shade's shadows don't magically rip people to shreds. They just pick them up and use their frightening strength and durability to tear them to pieces.
Shade's shadows are definitely magical, they just don't do magical damage.
Wasn't a vampire able to pierce Superman's skin with his teeth? That suggests, to me, that anything supernatural that is designed to hurt can bypass Superman's invulnerability.
vampires aren't uposed to be able to bite anything. They don't have a "bite anything" power. It's retarded. It's been said numerous times that Superman merely has no defences against magical damage.
But a vampire's bite is not magical. It's someone stabbing you in the neck with teeth. Tough teeth, but teeth nonetheless, and unless this vampire character had a level of strengh and invulnerability comparable to Superman's, he shouldn't have been able to pierce his neck.
It was written by CHRIS CLAREMONT and JOHN BYRNE. Can't we just ignore this? It's about as retarded as the Spidey/Firelord fight.
Wouldn't a magically constructed shadow be pure magic? It's not as though enchantments are placed upon mundane shadows. The shadows themselves, which are the source of all of Shade's powers, are magic.
And even when Shade's shadows have pierced skin, they've never been drawn in such a fashion as to appear that they were sharp and pointed. Rather, they appeared to be the shadows of something sharp and pointed.
If they lack the physical characteristics necessary to puncture a person, then surely they must be puncturing people magically.
vampires aren't uposed to be able to bite anything. They don't have a "bite anything" power. It's retarded. It's been said numerous times that Superman merely has no defences against magical damage.
But a vampire's bite is not magical. It's someone stabbing you in the neck with teeth. Tough teeth, but teeth nonetheless, and unless this vampire character had a level of strengh and invulnerability comparable to Superman's, he shouldn't have been able to pierce his neck.
It was written by CHRIS CLAREMONT and JOHN BYRNE. Can't we just ignore this? It's about as retarded as the Spidey/Firelord fight.
That aside, wouldn't the solar energy in Superman's blood instafry a vampire, much like in Runaways?
It was a pretty awful story from everything I heard.
Wouldn't a magically constructed shadow be pure magic? It's not as though enchantments are placed upon mundane shadows. The shadows themselves, which are the source of all of Shade's powers, are magic.
And even when Shade's shadows have pierced skin, they've never been drawn in such a fashion as to appear that they were sharp and pointed. Rather, they appeared to be the shadows of something sharp and pointed.
If they lack the physical characteristics necessary to puncture a person, then surely they must be puncturing people magically.
They're not pure magic. They're magical, yes, but they are shadow given life via magic. That's like saying a magically-animated zombie could hurt Superman.
Are the Shade's shadow constructs three-dimensional? If not, I can see where you're coming from with the "shadows of something sharp and pointy", but I think that's more of a "They magically emulate the things they are shadows of" kind of magic rather than a "these things are enchanted to cut anything".
And I've seen plenty of pointy and sharp shadow constructs.
Has Etrigan ever fought Supes? I mean, he's from hell. By robosagogo's logic, he could level supes without doing anything but punching him. Same with Zuriel. And I just don't buy it.
Thor is a great example...he magically summons lightning...but his lightning doesn;t do magical damage. Supes could take it. Now, Cpt Marvel's Lightning...it is actual magic lightning. It does magic damage. So it hurts the crap our of Superman.
But they way Robo paints Shade, he should be disqualified: Can't been sensed, touched, hurt, out thought, out manuvered, and can hurt anyone instantly. he can choose to make his constructs solid but not magic and hurt WW, or intangeable and magic and hurt Superman.
And since he fought a version of the flash they they disqualified, sounds like he shouldn't be here either
Just being a jackass. I do think he will do well. But I Still think WW will come out on top.
That's another thing. Shade's constructs hurt any magic-resistant being just as much as non-magic resistant beings. That seems to indicate that the constructs don't to magical damage.
Mjolnir returns to the exact spot from which it is thrown after striking its target, otherwise it returns to Thor when summoned.
So, assuming Supes or WW did manage to grab the hammer, Thor should theoretically just be able to take it back whenever he wants to anyway.
That's not how it works. Once someone else has the hammer and possesses his power he can't just call it back. (It's how Beta Ray Bill made off with it.)
Mjolnir returns to the exact spot from which it is thrown after striking its target, otherwise it returns to Thor when summoned.
So, assuming Supes or WW did manage to grab the hammer, Thor should theoretically just be able to take it back whenever he wants to anyway.
That's not how it works. Once someone else has the hammer and possesses his power he can't just call it back. (It's how Beta Ray Bill made off with it.)
I'm not sure Wonder Woman would be worthy seeing as how she murdered an innocent Giffen character.
I'm pretty sure that the Norse didn't have a problem with killing (Vikings and all).
Not to mention, WW killed to pretty much protect everyone from a mind controlled superman. And she killed someone who, under the influence of the lasso (has to tell the truth), said that the only way to stop him was to kill him.
When you really think about it...someone like Batman, who has let the Joker live to kill and kill and kill, has actually allowed way more bad stuff that Wonderwoman. She was willing to bring on the ire of the whole world to save it...pretty damn noble if you ask me.
Is it time for a superhero morality thread? Which is really kind of pointless, because superheroes do not have free will? The writers control the characters. Batman could not kill Joker if he wanted to. Joker is just as huge of a character as Batman is, a flagship character for DC.
I am thouroughly convinced by your arguement about Shade's powers, but just to be 100% clear, we're essentially saying that Shade's shadow constructs, because they do not do magical damage, Superman should have a much easier time fighting him. Would be like fighting a Green Lantern who is more stealthy and can teleport? Also, the non-magical nature of Shade's actual strikes would mean that WW (and Thor I guess) gets no boost to her defense due to inate magic resistence, right?
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They would not harm Superman any more than whatever else construct of their strength.
EDIT: Marvel vs. DC is no longer canon.
And Shade's shadows come from Hell. They aren't just magically hardened shadows, even if they can have all the properties of a conventional shadow. The shadows are themselves magic.
And Hell isn't known for it's magical hardening abilities. The point is to hurt people, so the magic is malevolent like hellfire and not just a thing that makes hammers ultra-resilient.
Shade gained his powers from some kind of traumatic arcane ritual, remember? These powers and the things that manifest from them are alien to his body (unless he's lost every remnant of his original human form), and not mortal in nature. They're pure magic.
What damage they do depends solely on their form, not their nature.
And the shadows aren't just solid constructs, clearly, since they can teleport people and have granted Shade immortality. They also seem to do more in certain forms than their forms would allow. They're magical.
And magic swords need to be magic because, since they're sharp, they can cut things anyway. The Vorpal Sword is probably just really sharp.
Even if you think Shade's shadows don't need to be magic, that doesn't mean they aren't.
Seriously.
Everything about that storyline was pure ass.
Shade's constructs are animated shadow. He can create shadows, and animate them. Or pull creatures made from shadow from the Shadwlands, I'm not sue how his powers work exactly.
Just because they can teleport and grant Shade immortality doesn't mean that they do magic damage. They teleport people by enveloping them and transporting them through the Shadowlands.
They're certainly tough enough to cause the other contestants trouble. Thor and Wonder Woman AND Superman.
It's just that they don't do any magical damage. They're just really, really tough and strong, magically. There's a difference.
EDIT: That is totally not the same thing, though.
Helfore is meant to burn people's souls and shit. Magical swords are enchanted to cut through shit.
Shade's shadows don't magically rip people to shreds. They just pick them up and use their frightening strength and durability to tear them to pieces.
Shade's shadows are definitely magical, they just don't do magical damage.
vampires aren't uposed to be able to bite anything. They don't have a "bite anything" power. It's retarded. It's been said numerous times that Superman merely has no defences against magical damage.
But a vampire's bite is not magical. It's someone stabbing you in the neck with teeth. Tough teeth, but teeth nonetheless, and unless this vampire character had a level of strengh and invulnerability comparable to Superman's, he shouldn't have been able to pierce his neck.
It was written by CHRIS CLAREMONT and JOHN BYRNE. Can't we just ignore this? It's about as retarded as the Spidey/Firelord fight.
And even when Shade's shadows have pierced skin, they've never been drawn in such a fashion as to appear that they were sharp and pointed. Rather, they appeared to be the shadows of something sharp and pointed.
If they lack the physical characteristics necessary to puncture a person, then surely they must be puncturing people magically.
That aside, wouldn't the solar energy in Superman's blood instafry a vampire, much like in Runaways?
It was a pretty awful story from everything I heard.
The energy Superman absorbs from the sun isn't stored in his body as light.
They're not pure magic. They're magical, yes, but they are shadow given life via magic. That's like saying a magically-animated zombie could hurt Superman.
Are the Shade's shadow constructs three-dimensional? If not, I can see where you're coming from with the "shadows of something sharp and pointy", but I think that's more of a "They magically emulate the things they are shadows of" kind of magic rather than a "these things are enchanted to cut anything".
And I've seen plenty of pointy and sharp shadow constructs.
Has Etrigan ever fought Supes? I mean, he's from hell. By robosagogo's logic, he could level supes without doing anything but punching him. Same with Zuriel. And I just don't buy it.
Thor is a great example...he magically summons lightning...but his lightning doesn;t do magical damage. Supes could take it. Now, Cpt Marvel's Lightning...it is actual magic lightning. It does magic damage. So it hurts the crap our of Superman.
But they way Robo paints Shade, he should be disqualified: Can't been sensed, touched, hurt, out thought, out manuvered, and can hurt anyone instantly. he can choose to make his constructs solid but not magic and hurt WW, or intangeable and magic and hurt Superman.
And since he fought a version of the flash they they disqualified, sounds like he shouldn't be here either
Just being a jackass. I do think he will do well. But I Still think WW will come out on top.
That's not how it works. Once someone else has the hammer and possesses his power he can't just call it back. (It's how Beta Ray Bill made off with it.)
I'm pretty sure that the Norse didn't have a problem with killing (Vikings and all).
Not to mention, WW killed to pretty much protect everyone from a mind controlled superman. And she killed someone who, under the influence of the lasso (has to tell the truth), said that the only way to stop him was to kill him.
When you really think about it...someone like Batman, who has let the Joker live to kill and kill and kill, has actually allowed way more bad stuff that Wonderwoman. She was willing to bring on the ire of the whole world to save it...pretty damn noble if you ask me.
I am thouroughly convinced by your arguement about Shade's powers, but just to be 100% clear, we're essentially saying that Shade's shadow constructs, because they do not do magical damage, Superman should have a much easier time fighting him. Would be like fighting a Green Lantern who is more stealthy and can teleport? Also, the non-magical nature of Shade's actual strikes would mean that WW (and Thor I guess) gets no boost to her defense due to inate magic resistence, right?