Small appliances could really benefit from being made repairable again. I had a fan break, there was a little plastic gear inside that could have been replaced for very cheap. Way cheaper than buying a new 40-50 buck fan.
If I could have gotten a replacement part or even the specs for the gear to have it 3d printed, it would have saved me a bunch of money and saved the environment a bunch of trash. But the housing was impossible to take apart. It was all glued together.
Now some might make the argument that the gluing process I more efficient and making the fans cheaper. But I seriously doubt that. Even if it were to add say a dollar to each fan to have it use screws, I'd still have netted significant savings being able to repair it over buying new.
Blenders and mixers often share similar issues and are usually very hard to repair. And yet a repair would see significant savings for the comsumer.
It's all about the money and selling more.
I'd really like to highlight the bolded.
To me, the right to repair has a huge amount to do with environmentalism. Just because it can be made slightly cheaper by making it disposable, doesn't mean it should. Especially with the proliferation of 3D-printing technology, some of these things are going to need to be mandated by law, if only because we need to do our best to prevent products from ending up in the trash. Either that, or the government needs to impose stricter recycling standards both on manufacturing and the consumers that discard the product.
your avatar with this post:
Didn't even think about it! It ain't easy bein' green.
Because, as it turns out, 3 years is a long time for phones currently. People aren't just replacing the phone because it's old, but because it's actually obsolete. And there's the fact that to get the level of power and size that we see now, it requires a level of integration that makes the devices harder to repair. And there have been attempts to make more repair-friendly smartphones - but it turns out they wind up sort of clunky and unattractive, for a few reasons.
Three years is a long time for smartphones. There's been a persistent market for dumbphones - around 15%-20% of cell phone network access in industrialized countries is for dumbphones. There are a few different reasons why somebody might prefer a dumbphone, but a major one is that they last longer than smartphones.
Also, as the Guardian points out in an article about dumbphones, the growth curve for new smartphone technology is flattening. We've already seen this with PCs: in the 1990s, a five-year-old PC was ancient. The difference between a 1992 PC and a 1997 PC was leaps and bounds; today in 2017 plenty of people are doing fine with 2012 PCs.
I think we just barely passed this point with smartphones. The features that used to sell new smartphones were better screens and faster networks. Well, the iPhone has supported LTE since the 5s in 2013, which also happens to be the same model that introduced a Retina display. I think this is a major reason that the iPhone 6 had disappointing sales. It just wasn't the same leap forward from the 5 that the 5 was from the 4.
I'd also argue that the primary driver of short smartphone longevity today (as opposed to, say, in 2015) isn't bona fide obsolescence. Anecdotally, the most common reason I hear today for replacing a smartphone is battery life. But batteries lose long-term life, that's just what batteries do, and if batteries were more easily replaceable then I think more and more customers would opt for that instead.
Battery life is the main driver of cellphone replacement in my experience. Second is wear and tear though.
it's "illegal" for me to throw computers and shit in the trash in NYS
But there is not really a feasibly way for me to recycle it without going 20 miles and then paying a bunch of money. Or waiting for the once a quarter recycling at the grocery store. There needs to be easier ways to recycle e-waste. They should bundle it with the post office, just drop it off at the post office and call it a day.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
it's "illegal" for me to throw computers and shit in the trash in NYS
But there is not really a feasibly way for me to recycle it without going 20 miles and then paying a bunch of money. Or waiting for the once a quarter recycling at the grocery store. There needs to be easier ways to recycle e-waste. They should bundle it with the post office, just drop it off at the post office and call it a day.
I'd bet real money that there's a company in your area who will pick up your ewaste for free and take it away.
Now, whether they will dispose of them ethically rather than put them on a slow boat to Ghana is another matter.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Car companies and computer companies have kind fo done this from a design perspective already. 30 years ago ago you could break a car down to it's bolts and rebuild it manually if you had the parts and knowhow. Now you're out of luck unless you want to license the car company's proprietary diagnostic software.
This is kind of exaggerated. It's definitely helpful to have the dealer specific tools, but 99% off all repair work on late model cars can still be done with basic hand tools and a standard OBD code reader.
it's "illegal" for me to throw computers and shit in the trash in NYS
But there is not really a feasibly way for me to recycle it without going 20 miles and then paying a bunch of money. Or waiting for the once a quarter recycling at the grocery store. There needs to be easier ways to recycle e-waste. They should bundle it with the post office, just drop it off at the post office and call it a day.
I'd bet real money that there's a company in your area who will pick up your ewaste for free and take it away.
Now, whether they will dispose of them ethically rather than put them on a slow boat to Ghana is another matter.
Probably is, but being rural means they usually charge at least for the pickup. Usually it's like $50-100. Which, coincidentally, is the same amount as the fine.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
It would be cool if "repairability" was a rating/selling point for more brands. I know I would spend a little more on a model I knew I could fix.
they sort of do with a lot of things. Professional/industrial models tend t o be built both to last and be serviced. But, "a little more" is probably double the price or more.
as sort of an aside a lot of folk might get a kick out of, or even base a purchase on. there's a YouTuber Arduino vs Evil. He does a bunch of tear downs/rebuilds of tools looking at serviceability and quality of build, Bored of Lame Tool Reviews... and other kludge machining and builds.
BOLTRs:
trigger warnings:
possibly light heartedish racism and sexism
strong language
cock jokes
Canadian
needed manicure
YouTube rabbit hole
Car companies and computer companies have kind fo done this from a design perspective already. 30 years ago ago you could break a car down to it's bolts and rebuild it manually if you had the parts and knowhow. Now you're out of luck unless you want to license the car company's proprietary diagnostic software.
This is kind of exaggerated. It's definitely helpful to have the dealer specific tools, but 99% off all repair work on late model cars can still be done with basic hand tools and a standard OBD code reader.
Except emissions related work as I've discovered recently. :-(
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
Car companies and computer companies have kind fo done this from a design perspective already. 30 years ago ago you could break a car down to it's bolts and rebuild it manually if you had the parts and knowhow. Now you're out of luck unless you want to license the car company's proprietary diagnostic software.
This is kind of exaggerated. It's definitely helpful to have the dealer specific tools, but 99% off all repair work on late model cars can still be done with basic hand tools and a standard OBD code reader.
Except emissions related work as I've discovered recently. :-(
And a proper scan tool is still a godsend for diagnostics, it doesn't have to be from the manufacturer. If a vehicle is "running rough" being able to see the fuel trims, MAF, and O2/Air-Fuel sensor data is awesome and a few simple tests can quickly point you in the right direction.
Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
Car companies and computer companies have kind fo done this from a design perspective already. 30 years ago ago you could break a car down to it's bolts and rebuild it manually if you had the parts and knowhow. Now you're out of luck unless you want to license the car company's proprietary diagnostic software.
This is kind of exaggerated. It's definitely helpful to have the dealer specific tools, but 99% off all repair work on late model cars can still be done with basic hand tools and a standard OBD code reader.
Except emissions related work as I've discovered recently. :-(
And a proper scan tool is still a godsend for diagnostics, it doesn't have to be from the manufacturer. If a vehicle is "running rough" being able to see the fuel trims, MAF, and O2/Air-Fuel sensor data is awesome and a few simple tests can quickly point you in the right direction.
Remember that OBD only exists because of standards/regs. Part of this should be separate into expected lifetime of devices, as we can argue about phones, but many tractors are 50+ year lifetime machines, so having the ability to repair on your own is critical to ownership if the company goes under. For critical operational needs, there should be manufacturer agnostic ways to get things running, or we're looking at major machine capital getting bricked.
Car companies and computer companies have kind fo done this from a design perspective already. 30 years ago ago you could break a car down to it's bolts and rebuild it manually if you had the parts and knowhow. Now you're out of luck unless you want to license the car company's proprietary diagnostic software.
This is kind of exaggerated. It's definitely helpful to have the dealer specific tools, but 99% off all repair work on late model cars can still be done with basic hand tools and a standard OBD code reader.
Except emissions related work as I've discovered recently. :-(
And a proper scan tool is still a godsend for diagnostics, it doesn't have to be from the manufacturer. If a vehicle is "running rough" being able to see the fuel trims, MAF, and O2/Air-Fuel sensor data is awesome and a few simple tests can quickly point you in the right direction.
Remember that OBD only exists because of standards/regs. Part of this should be separate into expected lifetime of devices, as we can argue about phones, but many tractors are 50+ year lifetime machines, so having the ability to repair on your own is critical to ownership if the company goes under. For critical operational needs, there should be manufacturer agnostic ways to get things running, or we're looking at major machine capital getting bricked.
Not to mention how amazingly expensive tractors are.
+9
SixCaches Tweets in the mainframe cyberhexRegistered Userregular
Car companies and computer companies have kind fo done this from a design perspective already. 30 years ago ago you could break a car down to it's bolts and rebuild it manually if you had the parts and knowhow. Now you're out of luck unless you want to license the car company's proprietary diagnostic software.
This is kind of exaggerated. It's definitely helpful to have the dealer specific tools, but 99% off all repair work on late model cars can still be done with basic hand tools and a standard OBD code reader.
Except emissions related work as I've discovered recently. :-(
And a proper scan tool is still a godsend for diagnostics, it doesn't have to be from the manufacturer. If a vehicle is "running rough" being able to see the fuel trims, MAF, and O2/Air-Fuel sensor data is awesome and a few simple tests can quickly point you in the right direction.
I keep a cheap OBD reader in my car because once you have one it sucks not to. Even though my dumb car doesn't have a dipstick, which is stupid and speaks to a machine not designed to be tinkered with by non-manufacturer-certified plebes like me.
Car companies and computer companies have kind fo done this from a design perspective already. 30 years ago ago you could break a car down to it's bolts and rebuild it manually if you had the parts and knowhow. Now you're out of luck unless you want to license the car company's proprietary diagnostic software.
This is kind of exaggerated. It's definitely helpful to have the dealer specific tools, but 99% off all repair work on late model cars can still be done with basic hand tools and a standard OBD code reader.
Except emissions related work as I've discovered recently. :-(
I'm curious to hear which issue you ran into. I work on emissions controls, and while there are a few codes that are un-clearable by a standard scan tool due to the potential for engine damage, they are by far the exception and not the rule. The vast majority of emissions parts - catalytic converters, EGR valves, O2 sensors, and the like - can all still be changed with hand tools in your garage, and the codes cleared with a $20 OBD reader off Amazon.
Car companies and computer companies have kind fo done this from a design perspective already. 30 years ago ago you could break a car down to it's bolts and rebuild it manually if you had the parts and knowhow. Now you're out of luck unless you want to license the car company's proprietary diagnostic software.
This is kind of exaggerated. It's definitely helpful to have the dealer specific tools, but 99% off all repair work on late model cars can still be done with basic hand tools and a standard OBD code reader.
Except emissions related work as I've discovered recently. :-(
And a proper scan tool is still a godsend for diagnostics, it doesn't have to be from the manufacturer. If a vehicle is "running rough" being able to see the fuel trims, MAF, and O2/Air-Fuel sensor data is awesome and a few simple tests can quickly point you in the right direction.
Remember that OBD only exists because of standards/regs. Part of this should be separate into expected lifetime of devices, as we can argue about phones, but many tractors are 50+ year lifetime machines, so having the ability to repair on your own is critical to ownership if the company goes under. For critical operational needs, there should be manufacturer agnostic ways to get things running, or we're looking at major machine capital getting bricked.
Not to mention how amazingly expensive tractors are.
Also, that farming is a job where any unplanned downtime can be disastrous, and therefore it's imperative to get anything broken fixed ASAP.
I keep a cheap OBD reader in my car because once you have one it sucks not to.
My current vehicle will display the MIL codes with an ignition key sequence. Turn the key on and off three times, waiting for the odometer to light up before turning it to the off position. The fourth time you turn it on the odometer will cycle through any active codes.
I think this works with most Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge vehicles, but it'd be nice if more manufacturers would do something similar.
Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
+4
SixCaches Tweets in the mainframe cyberhexRegistered Userregular
I keep a cheap OBD reader in my car because once you have one it sucks not to.
My current vehicle will display the MIL codes with an ignition key sequence. Turn the key on and off three times, waiting for the odometer to light up before turning it to the off position. The fourth time you turn it on the odometer will cycle through any active codes.
I think this works with most Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge vehicles, but it'd be nice if more manufacturers would do something similar.
Not immediately. Once the code is fixed the MIL will go off after three trips if the code isn't thrown again. After that it'll switch to a warm-up cycle counter (replaces the trip meter) and delete the DTC after 40 cycles if there are no further problems.
Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
Car companies and computer companies have kind fo done this from a design perspective already. 30 years ago ago you could break a car down to it's bolts and rebuild it manually if you had the parts and knowhow. Now you're out of luck unless you want to license the car company's proprietary diagnostic software.
This is kind of exaggerated. It's definitely helpful to have the dealer specific tools, but 99% off all repair work on late model cars can still be done with basic hand tools and a standard OBD code reader.
Except emissions related work as I've discovered recently. :-(
And a proper scan tool is still a godsend for diagnostics, it doesn't have to be from the manufacturer. If a vehicle is "running rough" being able to see the fuel trims, MAF, and O2/Air-Fuel sensor data is awesome and a few simple tests can quickly point you in the right direction.
I keep a cheap OBD reader in my car because once you have one it sucks not to. Even though my dumb car doesn't have a dipstick, which is stupid and speaks to a machine not designed to be tinkered with by non-manufacturer-certified plebes like me.
Me too. When my check engine light comes on, being able to tell the difference between an oxygen sensor slightly out of spec versus a real problem is totally worth the $20 I spent on a cheap reader.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
0
SixCaches Tweets in the mainframe cyberhexRegistered Userregular
Car companies and computer companies have kind fo done this from a design perspective already. 30 years ago ago you could break a car down to it's bolts and rebuild it manually if you had the parts and knowhow. Now you're out of luck unless you want to license the car company's proprietary diagnostic software.
This is kind of exaggerated. It's definitely helpful to have the dealer specific tools, but 99% off all repair work on late model cars can still be done with basic hand tools and a standard OBD code reader.
Except emissions related work as I've discovered recently. :-(
And a proper scan tool is still a godsend for diagnostics, it doesn't have to be from the manufacturer. If a vehicle is "running rough" being able to see the fuel trims, MAF, and O2/Air-Fuel sensor data is awesome and a few simple tests can quickly point you in the right direction.
I keep a cheap OBD reader in my car because once you have one it sucks not to. Even though my dumb car doesn't have a dipstick, which is stupid and speaks to a machine not designed to be tinkered with by non-manufacturer-certified plebes like me.
Me too. When my check engine light comes on, being able to tell the difference between an oxygen sensor slightly out of spec versus a real problem is totally worth the $20 I spent on a cheap reader.
Yeah, also it fits fine in the emergency kit I keep in the trunk that has jumper cables and...whatever else is in there.
Car companies and computer companies have kind fo done this from a design perspective already. 30 years ago ago you could break a car down to it's bolts and rebuild it manually if you had the parts and knowhow. Now you're out of luck unless you want to license the car company's proprietary diagnostic software.
This is kind of exaggerated. It's definitely helpful to have the dealer specific tools, but 99% off all repair work on late model cars can still be done with basic hand tools and a standard OBD code reader.
Except emissions related work as I've discovered recently. :-(
I'm curious to hear which issue you ran into. I work on emissions controls, and while there are a few codes that are un-clearable by a standard scan tool due to the potential for engine damage, they are by far the exception and not the rule. The vast majority of emissions parts - catalytic converters, EGR valves, O2 sensors, and the like - can all still be changed with hand tools in your garage, and the codes cleared with a $20 OBD reader off Amazon.
The code is P0171. I tried the two easy tests / fixes I found with a Google search and it still reappeared after deleting the codes. The only fix left to try is to do a smoke test with the vacuum tubes which are really really complicated and at this point I feel are out of my league.
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
Car companies and computer companies have kind fo done this from a design perspective already. 30 years ago ago you could break a car down to it's bolts and rebuild it manually if you had the parts and knowhow. Now you're out of luck unless you want to license the car company's proprietary diagnostic software.
This is kind of exaggerated. It's definitely helpful to have the dealer specific tools, but 99% off all repair work on late model cars can still be done with basic hand tools and a standard OBD code reader.
Except emissions related work as I've discovered recently. :-(
I'm curious to hear which issue you ran into. I work on emissions controls, and while there are a few codes that are un-clearable by a standard scan tool due to the potential for engine damage, they are by far the exception and not the rule. The vast majority of emissions parts - catalytic converters, EGR valves, O2 sensors, and the like - can all still be changed with hand tools in your garage, and the codes cleared with a $20 OBD reader off Amazon.
The code is P0171. I tried the two easy tests / fixes I found with a Google search and it still reappeared after deleting the codes. The only fix left to try is to do a smoke test with the vacuum tubes which are really really complicated and at this point I feel are out of my league.
do you believe that a proprietary code reader would assist you in troubleshooting this?
Hmm, good point, I guess I was thinking about how the vacuum system on my Toyota engine is really complex, but that's not the same as some proprietary part. Any car expert could figure it out without having to go to Toyota directly.
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
+1
Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
I keep a cheap OBD reader in my car because once you have one it sucks not to.
My current vehicle will display the MIL codes with an ignition key sequence. Turn the key on and off three times, waiting for the odometer to light up before turning it to the off position. The fourth time you turn it on the odometer will cycle through any active codes.
I think this works with most Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge vehicles, but it'd be nice if more manufacturers would do something similar.
How do you do this if you have a button instead of a key turn?
Something I've run into recently is repairing a power tool. Drills are not much more advanced than they were decades ago. The last major advancement was variable speed reversible motors, which my grandpa's ancient Central has. Mine was cheaper and is lighter, but not more functional or powerful.
His uses a motor that to this day you can buy at a lot of hobby stores, mine uses a proprietary size that only Chicago Electric manufactures, but do not sell, and to boot doesn't even match the motor in a new drill of the same model number. His uses soldered copper wire that can be purchased for pennies, mine uses strips that are glued to the case, break when it's opened, and connect via single use break off clips. His drill is older than my house, and I could fix it until the last hobby store in driving distance closes. If mine so much as snags a wire I'm buying a new one.
The only advancement in my drill is the composit grip, but with the Central I'd be just as scewed if I broke the handle, or the steel aluminum-magnesium parts on either
Something I've run into recently is repairing a power tool. Drills are not much more advanced than they were decades ago. The last major advancement was variable speed reversible motors, which my grandpa's ancient Central has. Mine was cheaper and is lighter, but not more functional or powerful.
His uses a motor that to this day you can buy at a lot of hobby stores, mine uses a proprietary size that only Chicago Electric manufactures, but do not sell, and to boot doesn't even match the motor in a new drill of the same model number. His uses soldered copper wire that can be purchased for pennies, mine uses strips that are glued to the case, break when it's opened, and connect via single use break off clips. His drill is older than my house, and I could fix it until the last hobby store in driving distance closes. If mine so much as snags a wire I'm buying a new one.
The only advancement in my drill is the composit grip, but with the Central I'd be just as scewed if I broke the handle, or the steel aluminum-magnesium parts on either
Yours also uses way less energy and is way cheaper to manufacture and you're underselling the weight thing which is a big advantage if you use it for 8 hours a day. But yes, current commercial grade goods are not built anywhere near as robust as the ones from a few decades ago.
Yours also uses way less energy and is way cheaper to manufacture and you're underselling the weight thing which is a big advantage if you use it for 8 hours a day. But yes, current commercial grade goods are not built anywhere near as robust as the ones from a few decades ago.
Really? Not even Snap-On?
Household goods, too. All the kitchen tools my grandmother owns (and everything the in-laws brought over from the Soviet Union) are incredibly durable and of rock-solid construction. I don't think I could even find something of equal quality in America today unless I either drive two hours to the Williams-Sonoma or get it on some obscure online store. Everything available in local stores just falls apart after a few months.
Going low tech for a moment, but the dull peeler my mom has had since the 1950s still peels better than the sharp peeler I picked up at wal mart. It's my go to peeler in fact.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Hahah we have an ancient peeler I think it was my grandmothers from a long time ago. Still works great never had a problem on potatoes or apples. Mom wanted a new nicer looking one and it did not work for crap and went back to the antique.
Yours also uses way less energy and is way cheaper to manufacture and you're underselling the weight thing which is a big advantage if you use it for 8 hours a day. But yes, current commercial grade goods are not built anywhere near as robust as the ones from a few decades ago.
Really? Not even Snap-On?
None of the best brands, composites took over for magnesium years ago, and the composite used have been getting weaker, a lot of brands, even high end ones, have just gone strait plastic. Air tools are starting to go that way too, now, and it's turned them into a lifetime buy to disposable junk. Snap-Ons current best air impact wrench is more fragile than a bargain wrench like Central Pneumatic, and with air tools there's not even much weight to save except at the extreme high power end, just durability to lose, and there's been no meaningful tech advance in those in a generation or two. If you bought a comparable Snap-On in 1995, your grandkids will inherit it. If you buy one now, expect to get another one in a few years. Longer than you'll get from a Stanley or Earthquake wrench, but you'll get more years out of a thrift store or garage sale purchase.
Yours also uses way less energy and is way cheaper to manufacture and you're underselling the weight thing which is a big advantage if you use it for 8 hours a day. But yes, current commercial grade goods are not built anywhere near as robust as the ones from a few decades ago.
Really? Not even Snap-On?
None of the best brands, composites took over for magnesium years ago, and the composite used have been getting weaker, a lot of brands, even high end ones, have just gone strait plastic. Air tools are starting to go that way too, now, and it's turned them into a lifetime buy to disposable junk. Snap-Ons current best air impact wrench is more fragile than a bargain wrench like Central Pneumatic, and with air tools there's not even much weight to save except at the extreme high power end, just durability to lose, and there's been no meaningful tech advance in those in a generation or two. If you bought a comparable Snap-On in 1995, your grandkids will inherit it. If you buy one now, expect to get another one in a few years. Longer than you'll get from a Stanley or Earthquake wrench, but you'll get more years out of a thrift store or garage sale purchase.
How I'm reading this is if a company came out with really well made, but expensive tools with lifetime warranties, they'd make a killing in the contractor marker. (basically a 2017 version of the original craftsman line)
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
+1
DaimarA Million Feet Tall of AwesomeRegistered Userregular
Yours also uses way less energy and is way cheaper to manufacture and you're underselling the weight thing which is a big advantage if you use it for 8 hours a day. But yes, current commercial grade goods are not built anywhere near as robust as the ones from a few decades ago.
Really? Not even Snap-On?
None of the best brands, composites took over for magnesium years ago, and the composite used have been getting weaker, a lot of brands, even high end ones, have just gone strait plastic. Air tools are starting to go that way too, now, and it's turned them into a lifetime buy to disposable junk. Snap-Ons current best air impact wrench is more fragile than a bargain wrench like Central Pneumatic, and with air tools there's not even much weight to save except at the extreme high power end, just durability to lose, and there's been no meaningful tech advance in those in a generation or two. If you bought a comparable Snap-On in 1995, your grandkids will inherit it. If you buy one now, expect to get another one in a few years. Longer than you'll get from a Stanley or Earthquake wrench, but you'll get more years out of a thrift store or garage sale purchase.
How I'm reading this is if a company came out with really well made, but expensive tools with lifetime warranties, they'd make a killing in the contractor marker. (basically a 2017 version of the original craftsman line)
It depends, really. Contractors are going to destroy a power or air tool eventually, even the rock solid ones from when Milwaukee was actually from there or that 1995 Snap-On. That's why even low end hand tools have long or lifetime warranties but power tools are lucky to have a full year without a full page of conditions and exceptions. Places like Harbor Freight make their money because in that situation it sometimes makes better financial sense to have a generous replacement plan or extended warranty than a better tool, when replacing it means a new $30 warranty every year or so instead of a $300 tool every two or three.
Increasing population that wants your goods because they're so high quality, price them to the point where you will make profits for a while... I'm sure there's a price point there. Maybe don't offer the lifetime warranties unless its a manufacturing defect (broken gear or shitty steel or something, I dunno). There's gotta be a way that this business model can still work.
obviously you can't sell an impact driver for $40 anymore, but $300 isn't really obscene for something that's going to last forever and not need to be replaced every 2 years.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Car companies and computer companies have kind fo done this from a design perspective already. 30 years ago ago you could break a car down to it's bolts and rebuild it manually if you had the parts and knowhow. Now you're out of luck unless you want to license the car company's proprietary diagnostic software.
This is kind of exaggerated. It's definitely helpful to have the dealer specific tools, but 99% off all repair work on late model cars can still be done with basic hand tools and a standard OBD code reader.
Except emissions related work as I've discovered recently. :-(
I'm curious to hear which issue you ran into. I work on emissions controls, and while there are a few codes that are un-clearable by a standard scan tool due to the potential for engine damage, they are by far the exception and not the rule. The vast majority of emissions parts - catalytic converters, EGR valves, O2 sensors, and the like - can all still be changed with hand tools in your garage, and the codes cleared with a $20 OBD reader off Amazon.
The code is P0171. I tried the two easy tests / fixes I found with a Google search and it still reappeared after deleting the codes. The only fix left to try is to do a smoke test with the vacuum tubes which are really really complicated and at this point I feel are out of my league.
That's definitely getting into an area where specialized knowledge is required, but it's not work that has to be done by a Toyota dealer. Any professional mechanic with the knowledge and skill set would be able to repair it.
As far as goods just being built weaker than they used to be, well, the rise of dollar stores, Walmart and Harbor Freight have proven pretty definitively that the average American doesn't give two shits how well something is built as long as it's cheap. Paying top dollar for Snap-On is still going to get you significantly better quality than Harbor Freight tools. There's also a common mindset of "this feels heavy, so it must be better" in tool purchases, when that's often not the case.
EDIT: Adding onto the "weight != quality" argument, note that it's extremely common for weights to be added to products to make them feel higher quality. They don't affect the performance or durability of the product in any way, but because they're heavier, customers feel that the product is higher quality.
Increasing population that wants your goods because they're so high quality, price them to the point where you will make profits for a while... I'm sure there's a price point there. Maybe don't offer the lifetime warranties unless its a manufacturing defect (broken gear or shitty steel or something, I dunno). There's gotta be a way that this business model can still work.
obviously you can't sell an impact driver for $40 anymore, but $300 isn't really obscene for something that's going to last forever and not need to be replaced every 2 years.
Eh, just sell a subscription model where you pay $500 a year or something to cover your tools and replacements (which all pros will scoff at and just pay) that erodes over time in cost as you don't make claims (maybe toss a free tool a year at em). Would eliminate private folks from abusing and build vendor lock-in, at which point you focus on service and tool lifetime, as the less claims the more money made from subs. Make it so people have to transfer it to someone "officially" to get coverage so pros can sell tools to each other but you don't get the yard sale abuse and make minimum claim time 30+days from sub to prevent subbing to get a tool fixed (that's then cancelled).
Limiting it to manufacturing defects kills the warranty basically, a two year old tool doesn't break due to manufacturing defects unless it spent a year and a half in the box, it breaks from use or damage. A warranty that excludes wear and tear may as well just be the store's return policy.
So you need the trust of the consumer that your $300 driver will last forever when they already can reasonably trust Dewalt's $175 one to last two years or Chicago Electric's $60 one to last until the first time they drop it on a hard surface. Or just buy Drillmaster's $20 thing and hope for the best, you've got enough left to buy 14 more if it breaks.
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Captain Marcusnow arrives the hour of actionRegistered Userregular
EDIT: Adding onto the "weight != quality" argument, note that it's extremely common for weights to be added to products to make them feel higher quality. They don't affect the performance or durability of the product in any way, but because they're heavier, customers feel that the product is higher quality.
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Didn't even think about it! It ain't easy bein' green.
Battery life is the main driver of cellphone replacement in my experience. Second is wear and tear though.
like
it's "illegal" for me to throw computers and shit in the trash in NYS
But there is not really a feasibly way for me to recycle it without going 20 miles and then paying a bunch of money. Or waiting for the once a quarter recycling at the grocery store. There needs to be easier ways to recycle e-waste. They should bundle it with the post office, just drop it off at the post office and call it a day.
I'd bet real money that there's a company in your area who will pick up your ewaste for free and take it away.
Now, whether they will dispose of them ethically rather than put them on a slow boat to Ghana is another matter.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
This is kind of exaggerated. It's definitely helpful to have the dealer specific tools, but 99% off all repair work on late model cars can still be done with basic hand tools and a standard OBD code reader.
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
Probably is, but being rural means they usually charge at least for the pickup. Usually it's like $50-100. Which, coincidentally, is the same amount as the fine.
they sort of do with a lot of things. Professional/industrial models tend t o be built both to last and be serviced. But, "a little more" is probably double the price or more.
as sort of an aside a lot of folk might get a kick out of, or even base a purchase on. there's a YouTuber Arduino vs Evil. He does a bunch of tear downs/rebuilds of tools looking at serviceability and quality of build, Bored of Lame Tool Reviews... and other kludge machining and builds.
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Except emissions related work as I've discovered recently. :-(
Remember that OBD only exists because of standards/regs. Part of this should be separate into expected lifetime of devices, as we can argue about phones, but many tractors are 50+ year lifetime machines, so having the ability to repair on your own is critical to ownership if the company goes under. For critical operational needs, there should be manufacturer agnostic ways to get things running, or we're looking at major machine capital getting bricked.
Not to mention how amazingly expensive tractors are.
I keep a cheap OBD reader in my car because once you have one it sucks not to. Even though my dumb car doesn't have a dipstick, which is stupid and speaks to a machine not designed to be tinkered with by non-manufacturer-certified plebes like me.
I'm curious to hear which issue you ran into. I work on emissions controls, and while there are a few codes that are un-clearable by a standard scan tool due to the potential for engine damage, they are by far the exception and not the rule. The vast majority of emissions parts - catalytic converters, EGR valves, O2 sensors, and the like - can all still be changed with hand tools in your garage, and the codes cleared with a $20 OBD reader off Amazon.
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
Also, that farming is a job where any unplanned downtime can be disastrous, and therefore it's imperative to get anything broken fixed ASAP.
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I think this works with most Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge vehicles, but it'd be nice if more manufacturers would do something similar.
That's neat! Can you clear them too?
Me too. When my check engine light comes on, being able to tell the difference between an oxygen sensor slightly out of spec versus a real problem is totally worth the $20 I spent on a cheap reader.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Yeah, also it fits fine in the emergency kit I keep in the trunk that has jumper cables and...whatever else is in there.
The code is P0171. I tried the two easy tests / fixes I found with a Google search and it still reappeared after deleting the codes. The only fix left to try is to do a smoke test with the vacuum tubes which are really really complicated and at this point I feel are out of my league.
do you believe that a proprietary code reader would assist you in troubleshooting this?
How do you do this if you have a button instead of a key turn?
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His uses a motor that to this day you can buy at a lot of hobby stores, mine uses a proprietary size that only Chicago Electric manufactures, but do not sell, and to boot doesn't even match the motor in a new drill of the same model number. His uses soldered copper wire that can be purchased for pennies, mine uses strips that are glued to the case, break when it's opened, and connect via single use break off clips. His drill is older than my house, and I could fix it until the last hobby store in driving distance closes. If mine so much as snags a wire I'm buying a new one.
The only advancement in my drill is the composit grip, but with the Central I'd be just as scewed if I broke the handle, or the steel aluminum-magnesium parts on either
Yours also uses way less energy and is way cheaper to manufacture and you're underselling the weight thing which is a big advantage if you use it for 8 hours a day. But yes, current commercial grade goods are not built anywhere near as robust as the ones from a few decades ago.
Household goods, too. All the kitchen tools my grandmother owns (and everything the in-laws brought over from the Soviet Union) are incredibly durable and of rock-solid construction. I don't think I could even find something of equal quality in America today unless I either drive two hours to the Williams-Sonoma or get it on some obscure online store. Everything available in local stores just falls apart after a few months.
None of the best brands, composites took over for magnesium years ago, and the composite used have been getting weaker, a lot of brands, even high end ones, have just gone strait plastic. Air tools are starting to go that way too, now, and it's turned them into a lifetime buy to disposable junk. Snap-Ons current best air impact wrench is more fragile than a bargain wrench like Central Pneumatic, and with air tools there's not even much weight to save except at the extreme high power end, just durability to lose, and there's been no meaningful tech advance in those in a generation or two. If you bought a comparable Snap-On in 1995, your grandkids will inherit it. If you buy one now, expect to get another one in a few years. Longer than you'll get from a Stanley or Earthquake wrench, but you'll get more years out of a thrift store or garage sale purchase.
How I'm reading this is if a company came out with really well made, but expensive tools with lifetime warranties, they'd make a killing in the contractor marker. (basically a 2017 version of the original craftsman line)
But they would not get repeat business.
obviously you can't sell an impact driver for $40 anymore, but $300 isn't really obscene for something that's going to last forever and not need to be replaced every 2 years.
That's definitely getting into an area where specialized knowledge is required, but it's not work that has to be done by a Toyota dealer. Any professional mechanic with the knowledge and skill set would be able to repair it.
As far as goods just being built weaker than they used to be, well, the rise of dollar stores, Walmart and Harbor Freight have proven pretty definitively that the average American doesn't give two shits how well something is built as long as it's cheap. Paying top dollar for Snap-On is still going to get you significantly better quality than Harbor Freight tools. There's also a common mindset of "this feels heavy, so it must be better" in tool purchases, when that's often not the case.
EDIT: Adding onto the "weight != quality" argument, note that it's extremely common for weights to be added to products to make them feel higher quality. They don't affect the performance or durability of the product in any way, but because they're heavier, customers feel that the product is higher quality.
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
Eh, just sell a subscription model where you pay $500 a year or something to cover your tools and replacements (which all pros will scoff at and just pay) that erodes over time in cost as you don't make claims (maybe toss a free tool a year at em). Would eliminate private folks from abusing and build vendor lock-in, at which point you focus on service and tool lifetime, as the less claims the more money made from subs. Make it so people have to transfer it to someone "officially" to get coverage so pros can sell tools to each other but you don't get the yard sale abuse and make minimum claim time 30+days from sub to prevent subbing to get a tool fixed (that's then cancelled).
So you need the trust of the consumer that your $300 driver will last forever when they already can reasonably trust Dewalt's $175 one to last two years or Chicago Electric's $60 one to last until the first time they drop it on a hard surface. Or just buy Drillmaster's $20 thing and hope for the best, you've got enough left to buy 14 more if it breaks.
Does anyone know of any lists of companies that make easily-repairable products? I'd like to support them if possible.