And that's just one issue. Like most things people are the problem.
Will they run someone down to avoid an accident? That alone will keep it tied up for decades.
As autonomous car technology advances, I think this scenario becomes less and less of a consideration. There are a number of accidents that happen because people overcorrect or make the wrong decision under pressure when avoiding a different potential accident. An autonomous car has a data-driven view of the situation and should be able to make the most correct decision possible in the moment, applying the right amount of throttle/brakes/steering input to avoid any potential accident. You shouldn't have autonomous cars overreacting or making obviously incorrect decisions based on the data coming into their sensors.
sensors can malfunction. Computers can incorrectly interpret sensor information. Conditions are sometimes outside the range of proper sensor operation. These things happen.
Thinking about perfect, ideal conditions is one thing (not saying you are guilty of this). I'm curious as to how an autonomous car would perform in say, a blizzard with GPS malfunctioning. Can't see the lines on the road. Can't use GPS to map its position. A human would use reference points to keep in position. What happens in freezing rain? Assume some of the sensors get plugged up. Does the car know? Or does it just act on faulty data?
These autonomous cars better be pretty damn robust. To compare it to a human mind - a large proportion of our brain's processing is devoted to making sense of the data and having an accurate view of the world with imperfect data.
Man if self driving cars become almost mandatory in the next 5 to 10 years in going to be pretty pissed that I bothered learning to drive at all.
I spent like 180 bucks on lessons and got my license two years ago. Hell I have 4 years on my car loan still. Technology sucks sometimes.
Nah our infrastructure is way too shitty for any kind of mandatory switch, and there are too many cars on the road. There will be a time when the majority of cars are auto drive and the old school person operated cars will eventually all break down beyond repair.
I could see in 20-30 years though city centers becoming purely the realm of the self driving car though, but not a nation wide mandate.
I want to learn manual transmission for shits and giggles.
Much like owning vinyl records. Driving myself will be like a weird hipster thing.
Oh really though the more important thing to me is electric cars and a more sustainable power system that doesn't destroy the environment. Fuck this self driving car garbage.
0
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
I want to learn manual transmission for shits and giggles.
Much like owning vinyl records. Driving myself will be like a weird hipster thing.
Oh really though the more important thing to me is electric cars and a more sustainable power system that doesn't destroy the environment. Fuck this self driving car garbage.
self driving cars are great for people with disabilities or who otherwise aren't mobile
as well as generally being safer for both drivers and pedestrians
the thing really holding up electric cars is batteries
and I mean, electricity grids and charging as well, but that is more of an infrastructure problem than a technological development problem like batteries
I want to learn manual transmission for shits and giggles.
Much like owning vinyl records. Driving myself will be like a weird hipster thing.
Oh really though the more important thing to me is electric cars and a more sustainable power system that doesn't destroy the environment. Fuck this self driving car garbage.
self driving cars are great for people with disabilities or who otherwise aren't mobile
as well as generally being safer for both drivers and pedestrians
You raise a very good point.
I think good public transit can help too but in smaller cities like where I live that just isn't practical for lots of reasons and will always leave something to be desired when it comes to getting around freely on your own schedule.
And that's just one issue. Like most things people are the problem.
Will they run someone down to avoid an accident? That alone will keep it tied up for decades.
As autonomous car technology advances, I think this scenario becomes less and less of a consideration. There are a number of accidents that happen because people overcorrect or make the wrong decision under pressure when avoiding a different potential accident. An autonomous car has a data-driven view of the situation and should be able to make the most correct decision possible in the moment, applying the right amount of throttle/brakes/steering input to avoid any potential accident. You shouldn't have autonomous cars overreacting or making obviously incorrect decisions based on the data coming into their sensors.
sensors can malfunction. Computers can incorrectly interpret sensor information. Conditions are sometimes outside the range of proper sensor operation. These things happen.
Thinking about perfect, ideal conditions is one thing (not saying you are guilty of this). I'm curious as to how an autonomous car would perform in say, a blizzard with GPS malfunctioning. Can't see the lines on the road. Can't use GPS to map its position. A human would use reference points to keep in position. What happens in freezing rain? Assume some of the sensors get plugged up. Does the car know? Or does it just act on faulty data?
These autonomous cars better be pretty damn robust. To compare it to a human mind - a large proportion of our brain's processing is devoted to making sense of the data and having an accurate view of the world with imperfect data.
Oh for sure, I don't think that self-driving cars are anywhere near ready for prime time at this point. They're getting better every week, but I wouldn't expect to see a self-driving car in which the public feels confident it won't make some stupid mistake that kills them for at least another decade. A lot of the issues you mentioned are giving autonomous cars problems right now, although there are arguably redundancies built into the sensor suite to reduce the effects on any one sensor having a fault. For example, if the car can't see the lines at a given moment, I would think that it could default to using LIDAR and object detection to simply keep a safe distance from objects around the car until proper lane identification can be made.
It's possible that there will be some situations (like a blizzard) where the human driver will have to take over for the autonomous system no matter what, that's just the limitations of technology coming into play.
I don't think we'll get to the point where a human passenger doesn't need to pay at least some attention until the vast majority of cars on the road are autonomous and using some standardized communication method to share their location/sensory data.
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I want to learn manual transmission for shits and giggles.
Much like owning vinyl records. Driving myself will be like a weird hipster thing.
Oh really though the more important thing to me is electric cars and a more sustainable power system that doesn't destroy the environment. Fuck this self driving car garbage.
self driving cars are great for people with disabilities or who otherwise aren't mobile
as well as generally being safer for both drivers and pedestrians
There's also the little thing where having universal automated cars dramatically decreases the amount of traffic jams and such.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
This looks really cool. Paid full-time international internships aimed at groups traditionally under-represented in tech, explicitly including trans and gender diverse people. Applications for the next round close 30 March. More info here.
+2
Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
And that's just one issue. Like most things people are the problem.
Will they run someone down to avoid an accident? That alone will keep it tied up for decades.
As autonomous car technology advances, I think this scenario becomes less and less of a consideration. There are a number of accidents that happen because people overcorrect or make the wrong decision under pressure when avoiding a different potential accident. An autonomous car has a data-driven view of the situation and should be able to make the most correct decision possible in the moment, applying the right amount of throttle/brakes/steering input to avoid any potential accident. You shouldn't have autonomous cars overreacting or making obviously incorrect decisions based on the data coming into their sensors.
sensors can malfunction. Computers can incorrectly interpret sensor information. Conditions are sometimes outside the range of proper sensor operation. These things happen.
Thinking about perfect, ideal conditions is one thing (not saying you are guilty of this). I'm curious as to how an autonomous car would perform in say, a blizzard with GPS malfunctioning. Can't see the lines on the road. Can't use GPS to map its position. A human would use reference points to keep in position. What happens in freezing rain? Assume some of the sensors get plugged up. Does the car know? Or does it just act on faulty data?
These autonomous cars better be pretty damn robust. To compare it to a human mind - a large proportion of our brain's processing is devoted to making sense of the data and having an accurate view of the world with imperfect data.
Passenger airliners have been self-flying for the last few decades with extremely few incidents caused by the autopilot systems themselves. System redundancy is a thing. Also, vehicles can tell you when something is wrong, what is wrong, and in some cases even probable causes for the fault. My car from 2008 already tells me exactly which part is not working at any particular time via "fault codes" and an indicator light on the dashboard.
Referring to driving manual as a "hipster" thing is just the most bizarre freakin' thing to me.
I didn't mean it seriously. It just seems like something that'll end up happening.
Ohh ok, phew.
I was really having a moment of panicked introspection there.
You won't be a hipster with a manual until you have a vintage Alfa Romeo, leather driving gloves and a flat cap.
.. I mean not even then. Yea.
Speaking of which, are you taking the Alfa to the European classic car show at El Caballo on the first weekend of April?
Never heard of it, let's give it a google.
...and staring the ABBASALUTELEY tribute show.
No.
+7
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
And that's just one issue. Like most things people are the problem.
Will they run someone down to avoid an accident? That alone will keep it tied up for decades.
As autonomous car technology advances, I think this scenario becomes less and less of a consideration. There are a number of accidents that happen because people overcorrect or make the wrong decision under pressure when avoiding a different potential accident. An autonomous car has a data-driven view of the situation and should be able to make the most correct decision possible in the moment, applying the right amount of throttle/brakes/steering input to avoid any potential accident. You shouldn't have autonomous cars overreacting or making obviously incorrect decisions based on the data coming into their sensors.
sensors can malfunction. Computers can incorrectly interpret sensor information. Conditions are sometimes outside the range of proper sensor operation. These things happen.
Thinking about perfect, ideal conditions is one thing (not saying you are guilty of this). I'm curious as to how an autonomous car would perform in say, a blizzard with GPS malfunctioning. Can't see the lines on the road. Can't use GPS to map its position. A human would use reference points to keep in position. What happens in freezing rain? Assume some of the sensors get plugged up. Does the car know? Or does it just act on faulty data?
These autonomous cars better be pretty damn robust. To compare it to a human mind - a large proportion of our brain's processing is devoted to making sense of the data and having an accurate view of the world with imperfect data.
Passenger airliners have been self-flying for the last few decades with extremely few incidents caused by the autopilot systems themselves. System redundancy is a thing. Also, vehicles can tell you when something is wrong, what is wrong, and in some cases even probable causes for the fault. My car from 2008 already tells me exactly which part is not working at any particular time via "fault codes" and an indicator light on the dashboard.
They notably still have pilots at the controls for emergencies (and poor weather) and just landing the planes.
And those pilots have a ton of experience too.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
+1
Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
And that's just one issue. Like most things people are the problem.
Will they run someone down to avoid an accident? That alone will keep it tied up for decades.
As autonomous car technology advances, I think this scenario becomes less and less of a consideration. There are a number of accidents that happen because people overcorrect or make the wrong decision under pressure when avoiding a different potential accident. An autonomous car has a data-driven view of the situation and should be able to make the most correct decision possible in the moment, applying the right amount of throttle/brakes/steering input to avoid any potential accident. You shouldn't have autonomous cars overreacting or making obviously incorrect decisions based on the data coming into their sensors.
sensors can malfunction. Computers can incorrectly interpret sensor information. Conditions are sometimes outside the range of proper sensor operation. These things happen.
Thinking about perfect, ideal conditions is one thing (not saying you are guilty of this). I'm curious as to how an autonomous car would perform in say, a blizzard with GPS malfunctioning. Can't see the lines on the road. Can't use GPS to map its position. A human would use reference points to keep in position. What happens in freezing rain? Assume some of the sensors get plugged up. Does the car know? Or does it just act on faulty data?
These autonomous cars better be pretty damn robust. To compare it to a human mind - a large proportion of our brain's processing is devoted to making sense of the data and having an accurate view of the world with imperfect data.
Passenger airliners have been self-flying for the last few decades with extremely few incidents caused by the autopilot systems themselves. System redundancy is a thing. Also, vehicles can tell you when something is wrong, what is wrong, and in some cases even probable causes for the fault. My car from 2008 already tells me exactly which part is not working at any particular time via "fault codes" and an indicator light on the dashboard.
They notably still have pilots at the controls for emergencies (and poor weather) and just landing the planes.
And those pilots have a ton of experience too.
"with extremely few incidents caused by the autopilot systems themselves" there are still pilots in cockpits solely because legislation says there has to be. It is well within reach of current tech to build an aircraft that can land in bad weather far better than any human pilot possibly could, but in the case of inclement weather pilots still have to have hands on throttle and stick because legislation hasn't moved on from the 1970s.
And that's just one issue. Like most things people are the problem.
Will they run someone down to avoid an accident? That alone will keep it tied up for decades.
As autonomous car technology advances, I think this scenario becomes less and less of a consideration. There are a number of accidents that happen because people overcorrect or make the wrong decision under pressure when avoiding a different potential accident. An autonomous car has a data-driven view of the situation and should be able to make the most correct decision possible in the moment, applying the right amount of throttle/brakes/steering input to avoid any potential accident. You shouldn't have autonomous cars overreacting or making obviously incorrect decisions based on the data coming into their sensors.
sensors can malfunction. Computers can incorrectly interpret sensor information. Conditions are sometimes outside the range of proper sensor operation. These things happen.
Thinking about perfect, ideal conditions is one thing (not saying you are guilty of this). I'm curious as to how an autonomous car would perform in say, a blizzard with GPS malfunctioning. Can't see the lines on the road. Can't use GPS to map its position. A human would use reference points to keep in position. What happens in freezing rain? Assume some of the sensors get plugged up. Does the car know? Or does it just act on faulty data?
These autonomous cars better be pretty damn robust. To compare it to a human mind - a large proportion of our brain's processing is devoted to making sense of the data and having an accurate view of the world with imperfect data.
Passenger airliners have been self-flying for the last few decades with extremely few incidents caused by the autopilot systems themselves. System redundancy is a thing. Also, vehicles can tell you when something is wrong, what is wrong, and in some cases even probable causes for the fault. My car from 2008 already tells me exactly which part is not working at any particular time via "fault codes" and an indicator light on the dashboard.
You're not wrong but I feel like cars will actually have to deal with more complicated scenarios than planes. Traffic and people make things way more complicated. There is more potential for error.
But that is why planes have had auto pilot for years, and cars are supposed to be years off.
But again, driving is far less complicated than planes, and computerized cars would have no problem accounting for traffic and people, especially once cars could theoretically be networked together to share positioning data, there would be far fewer traffic incidents. Running red lights and stop lights wouldn't be a problem, poor merging because the driver didn't see the oncoming car, rear-ending because the driver was jerking it or reading the newspaper or their phone or whatever, all these things would virtually disappear with a computer taking the wheel.
So far the only fatal automated car collision was because the computerized car's sensors didn't see a truck, due to the side of the truck reflecting afternoon light directly into the sensors. This would also disappear if cars shared positional data, because then the automated car wouldn't have had to rely on visual cues to stop.
The problems for these things are legion. The obvious answer is an override, but just like requiring someone at the wheel (or for there to be a wheel) that defeats the purpose of the exercise.
The problems for autocars are front loaded, for sure. The first ones will have to deal with 99.9% of the traffic not being autocars, or networked, or talking to them at all. As we get into the future, there'll be more and more autocars, so more and more data coming in that way. Gotta wonder if cities will designate lanes for autocars to make it easier for them, and to incentivise their adoption.
+2
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
The problems for these things are legion. The obvious answer is an override, but just like requiring someone at the wheel (or for there to be a wheel) that defeats the purpose of the exercise.
i'm trying to think of things you'd want to hit while you're in a car
It's pretty well documented that people are terrible at driving. Driving is at best frustrating and at worst completely lethal and that's under ideal non-intoxicated circumstances. Why would we not want to hand that off to a computer immediately so we can focus on what really matters, i.e. browsing the web and watching Netflix? It's baffling.
Yes a lot of people will need new jobs, yes, that is A reason but I have to think it's one we can solve.
+4
GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
I am convinced that driverless cars will be good enough in very few years and I think they will be hindered by legislation for decades. I'm not convinced I'll see actual driverless cars (so without someone at the controls at all times) in my lifetime because of this.
Also they don't solve any real problems imo and I'd rather have public money spent on better public transport than any incentives for them. (obviously, after we have good public transport everywhere we should then make it driverless)
0
Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
Driverless cars are good enough now. Legislating them is the problem, but that can't take more than a decade or two.
I am mostly concerned with the cost of them compared to traditional cars. It seems like one more way to stratify the rich and poor.
Not for long. Automotive innovations tend to trickle down pretty quickly as the economy of scale kicks in. The luxury feature of 2005 is the standard feature of today. Especially in a system like automated cars, where the more there are on the road the better they all perform.
I imagine it would give rise to fleets of driverless taxis instead, allowing for lower-cost transportation, which will be a bajillion dollar industry someday.
Posts
sensors can malfunction. Computers can incorrectly interpret sensor information. Conditions are sometimes outside the range of proper sensor operation. These things happen.
Thinking about perfect, ideal conditions is one thing (not saying you are guilty of this). I'm curious as to how an autonomous car would perform in say, a blizzard with GPS malfunctioning. Can't see the lines on the road. Can't use GPS to map its position. A human would use reference points to keep in position. What happens in freezing rain? Assume some of the sensors get plugged up. Does the car know? Or does it just act on faulty data?
These autonomous cars better be pretty damn robust. To compare it to a human mind - a large proportion of our brain's processing is devoted to making sense of the data and having an accurate view of the world with imperfect data.
I spent like 180 bucks on lessons and got my license two years ago. Hell I have 4 years on my car loan still. Technology sucks sometimes.
I have a pretty good feeling that no matter what happens with self driving cars, knowing how to drive yourself will always be a vital skill.
Nah our infrastructure is way too shitty for any kind of mandatory switch, and there are too many cars on the road. There will be a time when the majority of cars are auto drive and the old school person operated cars will eventually all break down beyond repair.
I could see in 20-30 years though city centers becoming purely the realm of the self driving car though, but not a nation wide mandate.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
at least for the next ~40 years
I want to learn manual transmission for shits and giggles.
Much like owning vinyl records. Driving myself will be like a weird hipster thing.
Oh really though the more important thing to me is electric cars and a more sustainable power system that doesn't destroy the environment. Fuck this self driving car garbage.
self driving cars are great for people with disabilities or who otherwise aren't mobile
as well as generally being safer for both drivers and pedestrians
and I mean, electricity grids and charging as well, but that is more of an infrastructure problem than a technological development problem like batteries
You raise a very good point.
I think good public transit can help too but in smaller cities like where I live that just isn't practical for lots of reasons and will always leave something to be desired when it comes to getting around freely on your own schedule.
Steam ID - VeldrinD | SS Post | Wishlist
I didn't mean it seriously. It just seems like something that'll end up happening.
Ohh ok, phew.
I was really having a moment of panicked introspection there.
Steam ID - VeldrinD | SS Post | Wishlist
Oh for sure, I don't think that self-driving cars are anywhere near ready for prime time at this point. They're getting better every week, but I wouldn't expect to see a self-driving car in which the public feels confident it won't make some stupid mistake that kills them for at least another decade. A lot of the issues you mentioned are giving autonomous cars problems right now, although there are arguably redundancies built into the sensor suite to reduce the effects on any one sensor having a fault. For example, if the car can't see the lines at a given moment, I would think that it could default to using LIDAR and object detection to simply keep a safe distance from objects around the car until proper lane identification can be made.
It's possible that there will be some situations (like a blizzard) where the human driver will have to take over for the autonomous system no matter what, that's just the limitations of technology coming into play.
I don't think we'll get to the point where a human passenger doesn't need to pay at least some attention until the vast majority of cars on the road are autonomous and using some standardized communication method to share their location/sensory data.
There's also the little thing where having universal automated cars dramatically decreases the amount of traffic jams and such.
You won't be a hipster with a manual until you have a vintage Alfa Romeo, leather driving gloves and a flat cap.
.. I mean not even then. Yea.
Believable.
This looks really cool. Paid full-time international internships aimed at groups traditionally under-represented in tech, explicitly including trans and gender diverse people. Applications for the next round close 30 March. More info here.
Speaking of which, are you taking the Alfa to the European classic car show at El Caballo on the first weekend of April?
Passenger airliners have been self-flying for the last few decades with extremely few incidents caused by the autopilot systems themselves. System redundancy is a thing. Also, vehicles can tell you when something is wrong, what is wrong, and in some cases even probable causes for the fault. My car from 2008 already tells me exactly which part is not working at any particular time via "fault codes" and an indicator light on the dashboard.
Never heard of it, let's give it a google.
No.
They notably still have pilots at the controls for emergencies (and poor weather) and just landing the planes.
And those pilots have a ton of experience too.
"with extremely few incidents caused by the autopilot systems themselves" there are still pilots in cockpits solely because legislation says there has to be. It is well within reach of current tech to build an aircraft that can land in bad weather far better than any human pilot possibly could, but in the case of inclement weather pilots still have to have hands on throttle and stick because legislation hasn't moved on from the 1970s.
You're not wrong but I feel like cars will actually have to deal with more complicated scenarios than planes. Traffic and people make things way more complicated. There is more potential for error.
But that is why planes have had auto pilot for years, and cars are supposed to be years off.
So far the only fatal automated car collision was because the computerized car's sensors didn't see a truck, due to the side of the truck reflecting afternoon light directly into the sensors. This would also disappear if cars shared positional data, because then the automated car wouldn't have had to rely on visual cues to stop.
The problems for these things are legion. The obvious answer is an override, but just like requiring someone at the wheel (or for there to be a wheel) that defeats the purpose of the exercise.
i'm trying to think of things you'd want to hit while you're in a car
archaic trash fit only to be forgotten
the real future is
http://www.designboom.com/technology/airbus-pop-up-drone-car-designboom-03-08-2017/
airbus is going to buy us all-white carpet and furniture so that the pointlessly transparent LCD screens are actually legible
http://www.npr.org/2015/07/31/427990392/remembering-when-driverless-elevators-drew-skepticism
Yes a lot of people will need new jobs, yes, that is A reason but I have to think it's one we can solve.
Also they don't solve any real problems imo and I'd rather have public money spent on better public transport than any incentives for them. (obviously, after we have good public transport everywhere we should then make it driverless)
PSN:Furlion
Not for long. Automotive innovations tend to trickle down pretty quickly as the economy of scale kicks in. The luxury feature of 2005 is the standard feature of today. Especially in a system like automated cars, where the more there are on the road the better they all perform.